Pathfinder Savant

[blope]

I'm debating whether the abilities of the PrC(from Seekers of Secrets) are worth the lost caster level(and other lost abilities from going into a PrC). Can anyone offer me some thoughts on this?

Which spells would you take with the Esoteric Magic feature?

[KaeYoss]

I'd say that many people would gnaw their own arms off to get the chance to expand their class like that.

[blope]

So if you were a wizard, which spells would you add?

[blope]

Any other opinions on this class?

[KaeYoss]

blope wrote:

So if you were a wizard, which spells would you add?

Depends on the kind of wizard.

Generally, you can "cheat" by getting spells early by taking them from classes that get them really early, like irresistible dance from a bard or summon monster IX from a summoner.

Cleric: Divine Favour is nice if you use weapon-spells (i.e. those that require some sort of attack roll, like ray or touch spells) a lot; shield of faith lets you get a deflection bonus to AC; sanctuary can be a nice alternative or addition to invisibility (if the enemy can discern invisible enemies, but is weak-willed). Silence can be useful - Cast it on your familiar and let him annoy the enemy spellcaster. You might want to get magic vestment and save a bit on your magic armour (nice for bards, too, and for warrior-like arcanists). Death ward is missing from the wizard list, but can be a nice protection. Divine Power is a good substitute for, or addition to, transformation. Spell resistance rocks. Harm and heal - who would scorn them? Not someone with spectral hand on his spell list!

Beyond that, you might want to stock up on some of the healing spells, or get planar ally spells if you don't like the binding angle.

[captain gummo]

KaeYoss wrote:

blope wrote:

So if you were a wizard, which spells would you add?

Depends on the kind of wizard.

Generally, you can "cheat" by getting spells early by taking them from classes that get them really early, like irresistible dance from a bard or summon monster IX from a summoner.

Cleric: Divine Favour is nice if you use weapon-spells (i.e. those that require some sort of attack roll, like ray or touch spells) a lot; shield of faith lets you get a deflection bonus to AC; sanctuary can be a nice alternative or addition to invisibility (if the enemy can discern invisible enemies, but is weak-willed). Silence can be useful - Cast it on your familiar and let him annoy the enemy spellcaster. You might want to get magic vestment and save a bit on your magic armour (nice for bards, too, and for warrior-like arcanists). Death ward is missing from the wizard list, but can be a nice protection. Divine Power is a good substitute for, or addition to, transformation. Spell resistance rocks. Harm and heal - who would scorn them? Not someone with spectral hand on his spell list!

Beyond that, you might want to stock up on some of the healing spells, or get planar ally spells if you don't like the binding angle.

i am playing a necromancer....and i can tell you....the ability to add desecrate and the inflict spells to my list is amazing....this increases my characters power tenfold.....literally. also the ability to cast scrolls using your caster level instead of that of the scroll is too sweet.....there is no question in my mind that this class is worth the loss of one caster level.....and i am not someone that is usually willing to make that sacrifice....in fact, i abjectly refuse to play a sorcerer for that very reason.

[cp]

blope wrote:

I'm debating whether the abilities of the PrC(from Seekers of Secrets) are worth the lost caster level(and other lost abilities from going into a PrC). Can anyone offer me some thoughts on this?

Which spells would you take with the Esoteric Magic feature?

I've looked at it, and decided against it. for me, as a wizard, the 8th level ability for conjurors is just to valuable. What level were you going to take it?

[hogarth]

I think that a divine caster like a druid would probably get the most benefit out of the class. There are lots of nice wizard spells to cherry-pick, you automatically know whichever spell you add, and Seekers of Secrets conveniently adds the Boon Companion feat to make up for some of the lost animal companion progression.

[Karui Kage]

The absolute *best* part of this class for me is Scroll Master. All those 1st level scrolls you can buy at 25 GP are now at your own caster level! Imagine if you're 10th CL. 25 GP for a 10 hour mage armor! 25 GP for 9 magic missiles! This even works with higher level spells. Buy a fireball scroll at CL 5 (default) and double the damage with your CL 10!

Our current campaign has a cohort with this class, and he is decked out with scrolls. Never ever runs out of powerful magic. :)

[spalding]

Yeah for Scroll master alone I would take this class. For six spells I can choose off of anyone's list I would kill for it (like "I'm taking levels in assassin so I got to kill you to get in" kill for it).

For a wizard I like the following:
Heal from the Adept (5th level spell)
Silence
Good Hope
Death Ward
Restoration
Spell Resistance (5th level Inquisitor)
Raise Dead
Freedom of Movement
Righteous Might (depending on build -- it stacks with Transformation though)
Fire Storm
True Resurrection

[Karui Kage]

I don't know if I'd let Heal go, it's not under the spell itself.

Heal wrote:

Heal

School conjuration (healing); Level cleric 6, druid 7

So you could take it as a wizard 7 spell, but I don't think there's a way to get it as a 5th level spell. If it said 'adept 4' on there then that'd be a way.

On second though, I guess I *could* see it being allowed, but keep in mind that since it's an adept 5th level spell, it'd be a 6th level spell in your own spellbook (taking spells from other classes increases their level by one for your book as a Savant).

Our current NPC took Poison, Quench, Reincarnation, Flame Strike... I can't remember the others.

[james maissen]

blope wrote:

I'm debating whether the abilities of the PrC(from Seekers of Secrets) are worth the lost caster level(and other lost abilities from going into a PrC). Can anyone offer me some thoughts on this?

Which spells would you take with the Esoteric Magic feature?

In general loosing a caster level is a cost that progresses as you level. You need to get something that in turn progresses as you level to balance out for that and lack of taking a different PrC/core class that would advance the caster level as well as giving you something more.

As to expanding your spell selection, while nice it's not as insanely overwhelming to me. I'd rather UMD many of the options, especially the lower level ones. With the bump in spell level and the fact that you are down a spell level make it far less than appealing.

The scroll master is cute and nice, but staves can do for you quite well imho.

-James

[TwilightKnight]

Has anyone played one of these in PFS or had one at their table? I am concerned that the scroll master ability could skew the wealth/consumable curve. Being able to spend 25gp for a 1st level scroll, but get the power of full caster-level seems a little over-powered. How does it look in live play?

[hogarth]

TwilightKnight wrote:

Has anyone played one of these in PFS or had one at their table? I am concerned that the scroll master ability could skew the wealth/consumable curve. Being able to spend 25gp for a 1st level scroll, but get the power of full caster-level seems a little over-powered. How does it look in live play?

I've got one, but he isn't high enough level for that ability yet.

My two cents: the number of level 1 spells that benefit from being on a high caster level scroll is pretty small (magic missile, shocking grasp, maybe chill touch and burning hands, although the latter two allow saves). It'll be nice to toss out cheap magic missiles, but I don't think it's a game breaker.