So I have stated in other theads that I think there is a problem with a divine spontaneous caster like the oracle, in that the cleric spell list does not have the 'impact' spells that appear on the wiz/sorc list that a sorceror can choose so that he can get good bang for his buck with his limited range of spells. The cleric makes up for this knowing ALL his spells and a host of other abilities.
The oracle plays like a sorceror with a much weaker spell list. So what I was thinking is what if at every odd level from 3 on, the oracle could learn 1 spell as if it was one level lower then it is. So at level 3, an oracle could choose to learn a level 2 spell and cast it as a level 1. At level 5 an oracle could do the same, or learn a level 3 spell and cast it at level 2. This is a little extra book keeping but its not much more then you have to do anyway with a caster. And that way the oracle doesnt have both the slower spell progression of spontaneous casters and the weaker spell list of clerics.
Thoughts?
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I'd recommend adding the "Cure" spells to his known spells for free. Other than that, I think his revelations should be useable a little more often than 1/day on average. If that is done, I think the class will be better balanced( though balancing the channel ability is pretty tough ).
As to your idea, would the dc be for the spell level it as cast as or the actual spell level of the spell?
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I do think that his revelations should be usable slightly more often, but I don't think that the spell list or spells known will end up being a problem. The cleric list has some good spells, and on top of that, the oracle gets medium BAB and a d8 hit dice. The main difference between them and a cleric for purposes of wading into melee combat is armor proficiency, which is solved with a feat (or two) or a single multiclass into fighter.
I'll have more to post when one of my players actually uses the Oracle. Perfect release timing to allow him to play the voodoo witch doctor type character he'd been aiming for, Paizo!
I'd recommend adding the "Cure" spells to his known spells for free. Other than that, I think his revelations should be useable a little more often than 1/day on average. If that is done, I think the class will be better balanced( though balancing the channel ability is pretty tough ).
As to your idea, would the dc be for the spell level it as cast as or the actual spell level of the spell?
The spell would be one level lower so the dc would be 1 lower. It would be like the fact that some spells on the paladin list are lower then the same spell on the cleric list. The only difference here is that this is exclusive to an oracle that selects that spell.\
I was thinking of calling it divine inspiration or something of the sort.
The main difference between them and a cleric for purposes of wading into melee combat is armor proficiency, which is solved with a feat (or two) or a single multiclass into fighter.
There's a Battle Focus revelation for this, too.
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The main difference between them and a cleric for purposes of wading into melee combat is armor proficiency, which is solved with a feat (or two) or a single multiclass into fighter.There's a Battle Focus revelation for this, too.
The Battle Focus Revelation that does the equivalent is arguably the best revelation an Oracle could get. It give you 3 feats all wrapped up in one revelation. Medium/Heavy armor prof and Martial Weapon Prof. Pretty insane.
I already posted this in another thread but it is also relavent here. So I am re-posting it.
I also agree that this new "Oracle" core class needs a pick-me-up in its spellcasting choices. I think the cleric list is fine but the bonus spells awarded should be more of a choice then a "cleric domain -force this spell onto you choice". For one thing I noticed that the uber 20th level ability holds little power in some of the "Focus" areas. If you look at the Wind Focus the following are the only spells that have the air/lightning subtype that the class hands to you:
1) Gust of Wind
2) Control Winds
3) Whirlwind
From the Cleric list you could choose these spells as spell known to add to the list:
1) Wind Wall
2) Air Walk
3) Wind Walk
4) Summon Monster VI (Invisible Stalker)
And that's it. Maybe these following spells are typo's in the Pathfinder book because they have air or lightning effects but not the "subtype" so therefore are unaffected by the Final Revalation ability:
1) Control Weather
2) Storm of Vengence
3) Summon Monster I - V and VII - IX (elementals are listed as "Elemental" subtype not "Air or Lightning")
I personally suggest allowing the players access to all the following Air/Lightning spells (which are all the ones in the book) not already discussed:
1) Shocking Grasp
2) Whispering Wind
3) Call Lightning
4) Lightning Bolt
5) Call Lightning Storm
6) Chain Lightning
7) Summon Nature's Ally VIII (Cloud Giant only)
8) Elemental Swarm
I also would like to see the oracle take the role of a seer and suggest the following additions (I am not 100% about these):
1) Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
2) Arcane Eye
3) Detect Scrying
4) Scrying Greater
I have not looked as deep into the other Foci but I share similar complaints about them.
Perhaps taking VedounMar's suggestion -- The Favored Soul's(Complete Divine) spell progression seems more appropriate for a divine caster...-- would be a good idea (I am not 100% sure about this but right now it sounds good) as long as you get rid of the "bonus spell idea" and add my suggested spells above to the list they get access to... maybe make the player take at least 1 air/lightning spell of their choice at each level or whatever is appropriate for their oracles Focus.
The Battle Focus Revelation that does the equivalent is arguably the best revelation an Oracle could get. It give you 3 feats all wrapped up in one revelation. Medium/Heavy armor prof and Martial Weapon Prof. Pretty insane.The main difference between them and a cleric for purposes of wading into melee combat is armor proficiency, which is solved with a feat (or two) or a single multiclass into fighter.There's a Battle Focus revelation for this, too.
It's pretty nice to see that Oracles are now the melee monsters that clerics want to be. :)
I don't agree. The cleric does have a few gems on her list, and the focus spells add nicely to that in some places.
The Battle Focus Revelation that does the equivalent is arguably the best revelation an Oracle could get. It give you 3 feats all wrapped up in one revelation. Medium/Heavy armor prof and Martial Weapon Prof. Pretty insane.The main difference between them and a cleric for purposes of wading into melee combat is armor proficiency, which is solved with a feat (or two) or a single multiclass into fighter.There's a Battle Focus revelation for this, too.
You can't really look at it like that. And if you did, it would be dozens of feats, because you need the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat once per weapon.
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I don't agree. The cleric does have a few gems on her list, and the focus spells add nicely to that in some places.
The Battle Focus Revelation that does the equivalent is arguably the best revelation an Oracle could get. It give you 3 feats all wrapped up in one revelation. Medium/Heavy armor prof and Martial Weapon Prof. Pretty insane.The main difference between them and a cleric for purposes of wading into melee combat is armor proficiency, which is solved with a feat (or two) or a single multiclass into fighter.There's a Battle Focus revelation for this, too.You can't really look at it like that. And if you did, it would be dozens of feats, because you need the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat once per weapon.
Oh, Wow. You're right. I didn't realize that.
Wow... In that case it's almost as good as taking a level in fighter. What you don't get:
- +1 BAB( Has a fairly good BAB anyway )
- d10 HP( Averages to 1 more hp that level )
- Tower Shield Prof( Not used often )
- Feat - This is what I'd really miss
And you don't stall your casting progression, ability acquisition, and level dependent abilities. Fairly even trade I'd say for 1 revelation.
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Oh, Wow. You're right. I didn't realize that.
Wow... In that case it's almost as good as taking a level in fighter. What you don't get:
- +1 BAB( Has a fairly good BAB anyway )
- d10 HP( Averages to 1 more hp that level )
- Tower Shield Prof( Not used often )
- Feat - This is what I'd really missAnd you don't stall your casting progression, ability acquisition, and level dependent abilities. Fairly even trade I'd say for 1 revelation.
I hadn't noticed that that revelation yet, that's pretty awesome! I'd kill for an option like that on my cleric.
I posted this on another thread but it is also relevant here.
I was thinking just now that I would prefer the cleric spell list that they have with the addition of all Air/Lightning spells for the Wind Focus... All Acid/Earth spells to the Stone Foci... All Fire spells to the Flame Focus... All Necromancy spells to the Bones Focus... All ??? (not sure what) to the Battle Focus... and All Cold/Water spells to the Wave Focus.
The reason I don't favor the druid spell list is then you could see the Flame Focus with control winds or whirlwind which should be only for the Wind Focus or some other such nonsense.
I also do not favor a unique spell list because I always find them annoying when new product comes out. Think of the Hexblades spell list from 3.5, it hardly ever got new spells when new product came out.
What about the Assassin... that was even worse in 3.5... maybe 1 book added 2 spells to their list.
Whatever they do, they need the spells to match the Focus. Nothing is more annoying then saying that you have the Wind Focus and can cast only 4-5 wind/lightning spells at level 20. The Druid/Sorceror/Wizard gets more than that by then ;)