A Cavalier's Oaths


Round 1: Cavalier and Oracle


Does this version of a Cavalier's Oaths work better (?):

Oath: At 1st level, choose 1 one of the following Oaths. At levels 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th, the Cavalier may select one additional Oath from this list. If a Cavalier violates the tenants of a particular Oath he take, he loses the benefit of that Oath for the next 24 hours (after which the benefit resumes).

Oath of Bravery: The Cavalier vows never to give into fear and run frightfully from a foe. As long as the Cavalier does not succumb to fear in anyway, he gains a +1 moral bonus to save against fear effects. This bonus increases by +1 for every five levels the Cavalier possesses.

Oath of Chastity: The Cavalier vows to remain chaste and never give into love or lust. As long as the Cavalier avoids all physical contact with members of a gender he is attracted to, he gains a +1 moral bonus to save against enchantment (charm) effects. This bonus increases by +1 for every five levels the Cavalier possesses. You may not take this oath when you have already taken the Oath of Courtship.

Oath of Chivalry: The Cavalier vows to never take sore advantage of a foe in combat, thus fighting fairly (whether his foes does so as well or not). As long as the Cavalier refuses to take the bonus he gets in combat due to flanking a foe, he receives a +1 moral bonus to saving throws. This bonus increases by +1 for every five levels the Cavalier possesses.

Oath of Compassion: The Cavalier vows to share his wealth with those less fortunate than he is as well as those in need. As long as the Cavalier does not fail to donate some of his earned wealth to a worthy cause, charity, or good aligned religion when asked or pleaded to for it, he receives a +1 morale bonus on Diplomacy, Handle Animal, and Heal skill checks. This bonus increases by +1 for every five levels the Cavalier possesses.

Oath of Courtship: The Cavalier vows never to betray the person whom he has professed his undying love towards. A long as the Cavalier does not betray his beloved (a creature nominated when he takes this oath), he gains a +1 moral bonus to save against enchantment (charm) effects. This bonus increases by +1 for every five levels the Cavalier possesses. You may not take this oath when you have already taken the Oath of Chastity.

Oath of Faith: The Cavalier vows to uphold the tenants of his religion and never disobey the teachings of his chosen deity. A long as the Cavalier does not violate the tenants of the religion of his selected patron deity (nominated when he takes this oath); he receives a +1 moral bonus to save against taking negative levels or negative energy damage. This bonus increases by +1 for every five levels the Cavalier possesses.

Oath of Greed: The Cavalier vows to obtain as much wealth as possible and to never give anything he has away without some profit in return. As long as the Cavalier does not give any of his possessions away without some form of profit in return of fail to take what others give him, he receives a +1 morale bonus on Appraise, Bluff, and Sense Motive skill checks. This bonus increases by +1 for every five levels the Cavalier possesses.

Oath of Justice: The Cavalier vows to bring all creatures of a certain type to justice. As long as the Cavalier does not fail to slay a creature of a specific type (nominated when he takes this oath) when he encounters one, the Cavalier receives Damage Reduction 1/– when taking damage from creatures of that kind (this DR stacks with other forms of DR of it’s kind). This bonus increases by +1 for every five levels the Cavalier possesses.

Oath of Loyalty: The Cavalier vows to be loyal and true to his friends and comrades in arms. As long as the Cavalier responds with an aid another action whenever a number of allies (nominated when he takes this oath) call for help, he receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against enchantment (compulsion) spells and affect as long as he keeps this oath. This bonus increases by +1 for every five levels the Cavalier possesses.

Oath of Mercy: The Cavalier vows never to give into sadism and slay a creature (no matter how vile) when it cannot fight back. A long as the Cavalier does not cause lethal damage to a helpless foe; he receives a +1 moral bonus to save against taking nonlethal damage. This bonus increases by +1 for every five levels the Cavalier possesses.

Oath of Protection: The Cavalier vows to protect one individual until his dying breath. As long as a creature (nominated when he takes this oath) does not take any damage from melee or ranged attacks, lethal or nonlethal, the Cavalier receives a +1 morale bonus to his AC whenever he is adjacent to the target of this oath. This bonus increases by +1 for every five levels the Cavalier possesses.

Oath of Purity: The Cavalier vows to remain pure in body, mind, and soul (thus to abstain from alchohol and drugs and be free of diseases, poisons, and curses). As long as the cavalier remains free of alcohol, curses, diseases, drugs, and poisons, he receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against curses, diseases, and poisons. This bonus increases by +1 for every five levels the Cavalier possesses.

Oath of Vengeance: The Cavalier vows to slay all foes who harm a certain creature whom the Cavalier holds dear (and thus gain satisfaction for himself and his comrade). As long as the Cavalier does not fail to slay a foe who harms the creature nominated for this oath, foe he receives a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls against creatures of that kind.. This bonus increases by +1 for every five levels the Cavalier possesses.

Anyone?


Oath of Chivalry might be a tad too good, and some of the oaths (Oath of Mercy) have very small benefits, though since these are generally easier oaths to fulfill, I have no issues with it. Might want to rewrite Oath of Vengeance a little though.

Overall looks like a nice list.


Thanks. I worked hard on this. ^_^

Anyone else like this version of the Cavalier's Oaths?


It shows i like this congratz.


I like these a lot as well. Chivalry's has the biggest benefit, yeah, but giving up the bonus for flanking is a fairly big deal. Hard to call. Maybe restrict them from ambushes too?

Scarab Sages

The exact mechanics may not be the perfect fit, but the concept is exactly what I'd like to see -- make Oaths have immediate pay off, and make them easy to adjudicate. Clearly saying "here is your commitment, here is the benefit, here is what breaks that commitment" makes it all work much smoother.

I like the Oath concept, and my biggest interest is having a game mechanic that enforces the "cavalier flavor". Right now the mechanics seem clunky (and especially hard for organized play -- not getting any benefit of my class feature until 24 hours later means many times in organized play I'll never see the benefit).


Thanks. Let's hope this gives Paizo some direction. ^_^


These are really good, immediate benefit, easy to adjudicate and easy to understand.

Currenlty the playtest oaths don't work very well.


[quote=]These are really good, immediate benefit, easy to adjudicate and easy to understand.

Currently the play test oaths don't work very well.

Dawww...your just sayin that. ^_~

Sczarni

I can´t imagine why Paizo didn´d do them like this in the first place. They resemble a past mechanic and are easy to implement (unlike the ones the actual cavalier has).
I did the same with them for my homebrew, not the exact mechanics but the way they work.


The current oath's seem more like placeholders and examples of what you can make with your dm's approval, then actual ones someone would use.

Shadow Lodge

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I was just coming on to the boards tonight to suggest just such a change. The immediate effect concept is vital, even if Paizo doesn't agree with the exact mechanics. I like that the effect takes place upon declaration of the oath and lasts *until* or *as long as* condition. I also happen to like most of your mechanics. This concept for oaths is absolutely vital for the Cavalier to work in PFS games, I think. Otherwise I can just tell the GM that for the 24 hours previous to the start of the session I kept my oath of Chastity, and therefore I get that benefit.

I wonder, though, if it might be useful to add this mechanic to your oaths, to give the proper incentive to keep oaths once sworn: what if you experienced a corresponding penalty for 24 hours if you break you oath or swear another? So, if you give in and drink a beer after swearing an oath of purity, you would have a -1 penalty to poisons, curses and diseases for 24 hours. This has a slight "fall from grace" flavor that I really like.

The Mercy oath does need to be reworked, though I very much like the idea. How about a DR 1/-- benefit for Mercy instead of Justice? Then if you violated your oath, for 24 hours you'd have a vulnerability of 1 for all. The DR would increase by 1 for every five levels, thus a 20th lvl Cavalier would have DR 5/-- which is probably worth it. For Justice I would tweak it to say a Cavalier must use his challenge ability against the subject of their Justice oath, and would receive double the benefit of the challenge. Failure to challenge the appropriate subject would result in all foes having the effect of flanking against you and until the subject is slain or captured no other challenge can be issued for 24 hours.

I hope Paizo does this and makes it official soon so I can use it in my PFS play. Good work there, Berselius! Josh, can we at least get a nod on this soon?

Scarab Sages

kwixson wrote:
This concept for oaths is absolutely vital for the Cavalier to work in PFS games, I think. Otherwise I can just tell the GM that for the 24 hours previous to the start of the session I kept my oath of Chastity, and therefore I get that benefit.

Agreed. This is something I've very much noticed in my PFS test play of a cavalier. I imagine it also greatly simplifies things for any other game play that isn't strictly within a campaign setting -- there should be easy mechanics for one-off games and convention games.

Overall, this sort of idea is just so much simpler in every way. I'm commenting to keep this on top of the forum list as much as anything else -- I really really want this kind of mechanic to be the final cavalier Oath, and if it isn't, I'd probably adopt this as my house-rule anyway.


I'm honored Michael. ^_^

Shadow Lodge

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Played the cavalier in PFS mod #23 this past Friday and there wasn't any opportunity to use oaths as they are written in the alpha test. Keeping this current to help draw attention to this issue.


I like the idea of the oaths taking effect faster, even if some of them as written I dislike.

The oath of protection is all but useless as is, even with the revision. The only way to have it be effective is to use it on another PC, and then the bonus only kicks in when adjacent to him. The boost to the Cav's AC makes it MORE likely the DM will target the subject of the oath, killing any benefit it might have given.

The oath of loyalty requires the player to not fight for a round, which is something most of them will be loathe to do.

Shadow Lodge

Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Jason Ellis 350 wrote:
The boost to the Cav's AC makes it MORE likely the DM will target the subject of the oath, killing any benefit it might have given.

Wow. I don't want to play with your DM.


When one character gets a +4 to AC and the another who is adjacent to him does not, it won't take long for the squishier guy to take an attack.

This says nothing of area effect spells, encounters with a large number of enemies, and the myriad of other ways "the guy who my AC bonus is dependent upon" will take damage.

The problem is that the oath was to easy to negate. To the point that keeping it going was nearly impossible.


I'd maybe still change Oath of Protection. Defending another char is quite hard. I'd have the AC bonus apply to the protected ally, as in

as long as you are adjacent to the nominated ally they recieve +X bonus to thier AC.


Not sure when the Adv Player's Guide became "final" since I just looked at it for the first time, but Oaths are gone. Point moot.


There's still this:

APG Playtest wrote:

By My Honor (Ex): At 2nd level, the cavalier may swear

an additional oath and any bonuses gained from his
oaths are increased by +1.

Under the Order of the Sword.

Maybe they don't want people to playtest Oaths? Or they want to see how much the oath adds?


You'll need to re-download the PDF Madcap. That was a mistake from the first version of the final playtest file, where they got rid of oaths but forgot to change the stuff that references it.


Got it.

That new ability for the order of the sword is incredibly silly. I know it's a placeholder, but really?

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