Just curious mostly, all the other AP forums still daily posts, but this one is decidedly not.
I think the oldest Adventure Paths and the newest ones tend to get most attention (the old ones because folks are still playing them, and the newest one because people are just reading it for the first time).
So posts on Second Darkness and Legacy of Fire might perk up in a year or so. :-)
ah, that makes sense.
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ah, that makes sense.
While I was researching which of the APs to run with my current group I went out and did quite a bit of research (on the Paizo boards and elsewhere), and I think the previous posters are correct. The general feeling of LoF has been very positive where I've been reading, it's just not being played much because CoCT and RotR are so popular, not because it sucks.
If I had to venture a guess from my readings, Second Darkness is actually considered to be the weakest of the APs.
I've had several specific nitpicks with LoF, but no more so than any of the other adventure paths that I've played in. It's mostly flavor stuff, and some game mechanic stuff I disagree with nothing that is really big or important or really diminishes my enjoyment of the game.
I would so far rank LoF among my favorite along with RotR, while SD and CotCT are at the bottom of the list (though still very much worth playing imo).
It's not the least popular with me!
Thats good to hear, I'm running a game right now thats beginning with the first three books before going off in a different direction. The part is almost to the end of HotCk and some of the responses I've gotten has made me feel like I've misrepresented or dropped the ball a few times. Nothing serious I think, this is only the second game I've run, and its been going pretty well overall. The party seems to think Almah is largely incompetent, which irks me, as I like her, and there have been a few holes that I've had trouble patching.
And is it just me, or does it never actually tell you how much they're contract for this is supposed to pay out after Kelmerane is liberated? I settled on 3000gp(each), but they're up to about 3.5 right now.
Hrmm, I've read the bloody thing end to end thirty or forty times and just can't recall seeing a number anywhere. Maybe I'm just being dyslexic.
This is next up on my list, but I still have 2 adventures in SCAP, and I share a group with another DM, so we're trading off between that and his SD campaign.
We'll get there. :)
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Hrmm, I've read the bloody thing end to end thirty or forty times and just can't recall seeing a number anywhere. Maybe I'm just being dyslexic.
pg.17. She offers 200 gp each for the PC's employment. A DC 20 Diplomacy check can increase that per-person reward to 500 gp.
The PCs will get more money (possibly) depending on their choice of the year downtime, but in terms of Almah payment the above amount is really all they get. They get a much larger reward at the end of House of the Beast when they leave for the city, but that's it. :)
This has been my favorite so far . . . and I really enjoyed playing CotCT. I can't say anything about RotR and 2D since I GM those.
My favorite so far has been the murder mystery, which was a fun change of pace. We'll probably not finish this AP until sometime next Summer or so.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Yeah, Second Darkness is where Paizo dropped the ball. It's not like it's "bad", it's more "requires heavy DM re-writing including a redo of one adventure".
Legacy of Fire on the other hand, looks like all kinds of awesome.
Which adventure needs rewriting? I have been very bad about reading my APs...
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Which adventure needs rewriting? I have been very bad about reading my APs...Yeah, Second Darkness is where Paizo dropped the ball. It's not like it's "bad", it's more "requires heavy DM re-writing including a redo of one adventure".
Legacy of Fire on the other hand, looks like all kinds of awesome.
Memory of Darkness. If I ever get to run it I will just ditch the module (except for a few ideas) and start from the scratch. Too much heavy-handed rail-roading for my tastes.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Memory of Darkness. If I ever get to run it I will just ditch the module (except for a few ideas) and start from the scratch. Too much heavy-handed rail-roading for my tastes.
Is that the one where...
The PCs pretend to be drow?
I really liked that adventure, but yeah, it would require the players to play ball with the premise in order for it to work.
I'm guessing part 5. It doesn't work very well as written. The rest of the path I thought was great.
We've already finished LoF and we enjoyed it immensely. The DM rewrote parts to make it harder (we tend to be power gamers and there were nights when 6 players showed up).
The hardest part for us was the 5th book as it had been a while since we'd been able to resuply. It took 5 very long sessions for us to finish that book which about double our normal 2 or 3.
We really had some trouble with the BBEG at the end of the path. The DM was very clever with his tactics and it was only some quick thinking by our dwarf that prevented his escape.
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Memory of Darkness. If I ever get to run it I will just ditch the module (except for a few ideas) and start from the scratch. Too much heavy-handed rail-roading for my tastes.Is that the one where...
** spoiler omitted **
I really liked that adventure, but yeah, it would require the players to play ball with the premise in order for it to work.
No, the drow undercover one is cool. The sucky one is ...
The fifth one, where the party gets betrayed by their allies, then betrayed by their new allies, then expected to pretend to betray their first allies, breaking into a dungeon which is not a dungeon because you're supposed not to kill anybody, and finally everybody gets betrayed by the BBEG which results in a crazy combat with at least 5 high level NPV casters (on either sides), several demons and General Confusion.
Oh and it's the biggest railroad since Terrible Trouble at Tragidore, and that's saying something
Me? I love Legacy of Fire. And I've been trying my best to keep this forum busy. But yeah, it seems a bit neglected in terms of post-count, even when it was fresh out of the gate.
My groups just started The Impossible Eye, and so far they're all having a good time. They're doing a good job keeping me on my toes by doing things unexpectedly, like
Memory of Darkness. If I ever get to run it I will just ditch the module (except for a few ideas) and start from the scratch. Too much heavy-handed rail-roading for my tastes.Is that the one where...
** spoiler omitted **
I really liked that adventure, but yeah, it would require the players to play ball with the premise in order for it to work.
No, the drow undercover one is cool. The sucky one is ...
** spoiler omitted **
I really like the second darkness AP idea. are there any suggestions on a reworking of this adventure (if so how) or is the concensus to just dump it and go to the 6th adventure?
edit: BTW on topic- still playing RotRL (loving it) and collecting all others. It takes us about 2 years per AP so we are about 1 year away from starting CoCT and 3years from 2nd darkness and 5 years from LOF.
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Regarding the reworking of 5th SD adventure:
Make the Winter Council a bunch of evil bastards (except the Calistra priestess, who is inclined to help the PCs), who plan to kill the PCs before they can reveal the whole drow shame story to the outside world. Assassination attempts and sneaky elven politics quickly point out that if the world is to be saved, the Winter Council must be taken out of the picture.
Have the elven queen approach the PCs and ask them to take the council out - covertly. The queen will be open about the succubus prisoner, and ask the PCs to use her as a way to get to Thorn's End. Ignore the whole "help the demons besiege Thorn's End" shtick, instead get the PCs to run the demon blockade and infiltrate Thron's End while making sure not to kill any non-evil elves there (great challenge, as Elves are immune to sleep).
Eventually have them face the Winter Council in combat, and at some point have Hialin go emo and turn into drow, at which points the demons enter, allegiances shift and things go south.
Basically just cut the whole "double betrayal" bit (make the Queen a honest-to-good NPC who just happens to have her hands tied in regard to taking the Council out) and run Thorn's End as a good old dungeon hack.
Man, I so wish Greg Vaughn would have written this adventure, he is perfect for cool dungeon crawls.
Hrmm, I've read the bloody thing end to end thirty or forty times and just can't recall seeing a number anywhere. Maybe I'm just being dyslexic.pg.17. She offers 200 gp each for the PC's employment. A DC 20 Diplomacy check can increase that per-person reward to 500 gp.
The PCs will get more money (possibly) depending on their choice of the year downtime, but in terms of Almah payment the above amount is really all they get. They get a much larger reward at the end of House of the Beast when they leave for the city, but that's it. :)
Hrmm... its a good thing I couldn't find it I guess. I think they'd have mutinied already if they thought they were only getting a measly 200-500gp out of the deal. That really doesn't seem enough considering how scarce loot is otherwise up to 5th level. I've got six players so everything is spread a bit thin. My game is probably a bit nuts compared to what most people are used too, but while they're powerful I've brutalized them pretty hard several times and they've managed to come out on top thus far. Hoping that the next session in a few weeks wraps up HotCK and I can get into the interim period. Hehehe, I have some amusing thing planned for the year of downtime, assuming they don't just decide they need to go after the Carrion King before I can toss the hook.
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Legacy of Fire is my favorite AP so far. I ran RotR halfway through and we all hated it -- to dark and gross for our tastes. We ended up ditching the AP and the Varisian characters, and rerolling in Katapesh for LoF.
We're just getting started with LoF but it feels more heroic and epic (ie, on a grand scale, not post-level-20) and less horrific than the previous three APs.
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Hrmm... its a good thing I couldn't find it I guess. I think they'd have mutinied already if they thought they were only getting a measly 200-500gp out of the deal. That really doesn't seem enough considering how scarce loot is otherwise up to 5th level. I've got six players so everything is spread a bit thin. My game is probably a bit nuts compared to what most people are used too, but while they're powerful I've brutalized them pretty hard several times and they've managed to come out on top thus far. Hoping that the next session in a few weeks wraps up HotCK and I can get into the interim period. Hehehe, I have some amusing thing planned for the year of downtime, assuming they don't just decide they need to go after the Carrion King before I can toss the hook.Hrmm, I've read the bloody thing end to end thirty or forty times and just can't recall seeing a number anywhere. Maybe I'm just being dyslexic.pg.17. She offers 200 gp each for the PC's employment. A DC 20 Diplomacy check can increase that per-person reward to 500 gp.
The PCs will get more money (possibly) depending on their choice of the year downtime, but in terms of Almah payment the above amount is really all they get. They get a much larger reward at the end of House of the Beast when they leave for the city, but that's it. :)
To be fair, it's not as if there's really anything they can spend money on much at this point, and 200-500 GP per person IS a lot for 1st-2nd level characters. Even when Kelmarane gets started back up they can't really buy much there, most of their gear is going to be from what they find and/or make.
I've allowed my guys to special order things from Katapesh during the year downtime, but tried to avoid letting them actually 'travel' there until after HotB, since the start of the 3rd adventure is all about the first visit. During the year downtime it does make sense, the town needs them to help its growth and they each get to pick their own 'job' to do, which will get them a lot more money.
Creative Director
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Hrmm... its a good thing I couldn't find it I guess. I think they'd have mutinied already if they thought they were only getting a measly 200-500gp out of the deal. That really doesn't seem enough considering how scarce loot is otherwise up to 5th level. I've got six players so everything is spread a bit thin.
Since we put in treasure amounts assuming 4 players... I certainly hope you're increasing the amount of treasure found in the adventure by half-again the listed amounts!
Hrmm... its a good thing I couldn't find it I guess. I think they'd have mutinied already if they thought they were only getting a measly 200-500gp out of the deal. That really doesn't seem enough considering how scarce loot is otherwise up to 5th level. I've got six players so everything is spread a bit thin.Since we put in treasure amounts assuming 4 players... I certainly hope you're increasing the amount of treasure found in the adventure by half-again the listed amounts!
*grins* They just finished the battle market fight last session and got quite the haul out of it. They're a pretty scary bunch, though Kardswann and his friends Ugruk (who got another level of fighter for a total of 3) and Ragar (Gnoll Cleric 5 of Rovagug) did give them some trouble.
The fight took about six and a half hours all told, with around 10 spots in the initiative order at one point. I think it went on for something like 10-15 rounds. If anyone is curious what happened or whatnot I'll be happy to post a rundown of the fight.
I'm guessing part 5. It doesn't work very well as written. The rest of the path I thought was great.
We've already finished LoF and we enjoyed it immensely. The DM rewrote parts to make it harder (we tend to be power gamers and there were nights when 6 players showed up).
The hardest part for us was the 5th book as it had been a while since we'd been able to resuply. It took 5 very long sessions for us to finish that book which about double our normal 2 or 3.
We really had some trouble with the BBEG at the end of the path. The DM was very clever with his tactics and it was only some quick thinking by our dwarf that prevented his escape.
I'm interested in what your DM did. I've just started LoF with 8-10 players. Ugh! And throw a couple power gamers in the mix and it's gets more challenging for me. I've increased basic treasure (money) but I'm reluctant to add too many items as the group is overpowering the low level stuff.
I'm going to spend some time enhancing things but GMing for a large group like this is a pain in the patootie!
BUT.....the group was grumbling about playing 1st level but have loved the story so far! Pugwampis FTW!
Big groups can be fun, they definitely make you work though. My group hated the pugwampis with a passion, but everything else has gone over well.
Before the group arrived in Kelmerane they got jumped by a two Jackalwere's and a half dozen Jackals. One of the JWs pretended to be the only survivor of a destroyed caravan the PCs came across, then the next night they jumped the group. Due to not being familiar with elves and several other successful saves the ambush didn't go quite as they planned it.
The pugwampis did a lot of damage in the cactus field and monastery, the fighting ending with the ranger critting Moknok as he fell through the air after the group's multiclassed nutjob and the rogue(soon to be wizard) ripped the floor out from under the tiny terror. (Moknok was a third level barbarian at the time).
They dropped Haidar in 2 rounds without taking a single hit (he rolled poorly on his one round of attacks, they were 3rd level) He had 92 HP as an aristocrat 2/fighter 2.
They've done some other crazy stuff too, but have survived it all so far.
LOL. Yep, my group hates the pugwampis. Just like they're supposed to.
The stuff they do meta-gaming, or out of boredom is driving me nuts though. Thankfully I only run 2 weeks out of 8.
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No lack of love for LoF here, just a lack of time to play it.
I was going to run it this time 'round, but then Council of Thieves came out, we finished Curse of the Crimson Throne, and now I get to play, rather than run a game.
I can't wait to be a Gnomish Paladin of Sarenrae, hacking my way through the desert!
-t
It'll be a couple years (::whimper::) before I get to run LoF, but it is most definitely the one I'm doing next :)
Unfortunately, with work and travel times, our group can only get together once a month, for a weekend of gaming fun. And we're trading off GM duties between three of us, running the first three APs (I have Crimson Throne). Hence why I'll have a huge pile of APs begging to be run on my shelves by the time I get to Legacy :)
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Legacy of Fire and CoCT are my two favorite APs. I got to run the first two adventures for CoCT and had a good time, but I am able to do all of LoF (in Savage Worlds format) and we are having a blast. The PCs are currently stuck in Kakishon and are looking for a way out. They were stymied trying to meet the blacksmith and called upon Lahapraset to aid them. She was not amused when she arrived and found there was nothing to kill or no other protean to be rescued. Now, the will have to make nice with Obherak if they want to get home...
After running Burnt Offerings, Crimson Throne ( best of the bunch IMO), & Second Darkness all back to back, I decided to skip Legacy of Fire & run a more plotless, open ended campaign for a change ( still set in Golarion of course).
I guess if an AP doesn't have a Vankaskerkin in it, it just doesn't feel like a proper AP to me.
Also, Arabian Nights style adventures just don't appeal to me and my group. Looking forward to running Council of Thieves though.
Currently my favorate APs are (in order):
RotRL
LoF
CotCT
SD
I'm not judging CoT until all adventures are out.
Of course, I might be biased because I'm fond of gnolls and efreet.
Another vote for LoF *not* being the least-popular AP. I guess RotR is my favorite (and finally getting to run it just now) followed by LoF. Hard to put it in that order, though. I like LoF nearly as well, it's just a different style, one that my group likes. If I had a different group I might put LoF first. I guess I like CotCT least, even after SD, but maybe I need to read it again...it just never "caught" me.
CoT has got some neat stuff but I'm not digging it all that much yet. I think it'll grow on me and the play in Part II might be the start of that.
M
As a player in Runelords, a GM in Crimson Throne, and now a player in Fire I have liked this one about equal with Runelords. My players liek Crimsons since they were able to get involved with the city and feel invested in it. I haven't read Second Darkness, but so far I haven't really cared for Council so far. It has seemed the weakest to me.
Is it the least played? Yes. Because everyone has games going.
After reading through it, though, it is probably my favorite AP of the bunch. It has the most polish (well I haven't seen Council of thieves).
I am getting ready to GM LOF beginning the first of the year. Looks like I am going to have about seven players too. I am really liking what have I read so far. Should be a ton of fun.
Regarding the reworking of 5th SD adventure:
** spoiler omitted **
I didn't mind MoD, but I like the idea of that, and the Queen.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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This is a great thread. Thanks, everyone, for sharing your experiences with Legacy of Fire and all of our Adventure Paths. It's always great to see so many people are playing this stuff after we put so much work into it.
And a special shout-out to everyone who has played (and enjoyed!) Howl of the Carrion King. I really appreciated the chance to get to write that one, and it's nice to see it receive such a positive reception.
This is a great thread. Thanks, everyone, for sharing your experiences with Legacy of Fire and all of our Adventure Paths. It's always great to see so many people are playing this stuff after we put so much work into it.
And a special shout-out to everyone who has played (and enjoyed!) Howl of the Carrion King. I really appreciated the chance to get to write that one, and it's nice to see it receive such a positive reception.
You write great first level adventures, my favourtie three AP starts have been Whispering Cairn, Burnt Offerings and Howl of the Carrion King!
That's a 66% Mona coeffecient!
Maybe its something in the water?
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I've had several specific nitpicks with LoF, but no more so than any of the other adventure paths that I've played in. It's mostly flavor stuff, and some game mechanic stuff I disagree with nothing that is really big or important or really diminishes my enjoyment of the game.
I would so far rank LoF among my favorite along with RotR, while SD and CotCT are at the bottom of the list (though still very much worth playing imo).
My least favorite component in Legacy of Fire was the Dungeon-crawl filler in the City of Brass. With such an exotic location, I had hoped for more.
That said, not a bad campaign. Some leading the players by their nose, but no more than other adventure paths.