If Paizo tackled the planes of Golarion next...You know about this, right? Sure, it's only 64 pages and information on the Great Beyond could fill thousands of such volumes, but it's a start ;-)
Yes, it is a good start. I okay with what we have so far.
BRAND new races don't have a pre-built presence in the world and it's awkward having to fit them into established world continuity.
That's easy! Just nuke half the world! ;-)
One of the things I like about the ironborn is that they may or may not be under the control of their master.
Yeah! Go Ironborn! What is Dead Can Never Die!
Creative Director
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Two things:
1) When and if we expand the campaign setting and start to explore other continents like Tian Xia and Casmaron and Arcadia, I can pretty much GUARANTEE you'll be seeing some new PC races. Elves and dwarves don't make sense as "locals" in an Asian setting or an African setting or a South American setting, since theyr'e very European in their feel. So that's one way we'll eventually do some new races.
2) The bestiary line will continue to have new monsters that are humanoids with zero HD who can be used as PCs. The current Bestiary has things like goblins and orcs and tengus and tieflings, all of whom work pretty well as PC races (some better than others). The Bestiary 2 and 3 and 4 and so on will continue to introduce these new race options as well. There's about a dozen, IIRC in the Bestiary 2 already that we're working on. These new races will be presented in the same way as the 0-HD races in the Bestairy, and will be designed first and foremost as monsters, but they should work pretty well as PCs.
Actually, doing things this way can sort of be interpreted as a "stealth" playtest. We release several 0 HD monsters and folks start to use them as PCs anyway and in a year or two or five if we've heard how popular, say, goblin PCs are, then presto!
Two things:
1) When and if we expand the campaign setting and start to explore other continents like Tian Xia and Casmaron and Arcadia, I can pretty much GUARANTEE you'll be seeing some new PC races. Elves and dwarves don't make sense as "locals" in an Asian setting or an African setting or a South American setting, since theyr'e very European in their feel. So that's one way we'll eventually do some new races.
Obviously, Tengu will make a good race for an asian environment. For a south american environment a jaguar shapeshifter race. For Africa, cougar shapeshifters. Hate to say it, but a monkey type humanoid race would also fit in in an asian environment, as well as a fox shapeshfiter race. As much as werewolves and rats are european, the others I mentioned above are for their respective regions. A werebear makes more sense for a russian steppes kind of setting (along with baba yaga and orcs). Obviously the bestiary would have generic racial fluff with Golarion specific fluff in an AP.
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Creative Director
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Obviously, Tengu will make a good race for an asian environment. For a south american environment a jaguar shapeshifter race. For Africa, cougar shapeshifters. Hate to say it, but a monkey type humanoid race would also fit in in an asian environment, as well as a fox shapeshfiter race. As much as werewolves and rats are european, the others I mentioned above are for their respective regions. A werebear makes more sense for a russian steppes kind of setting (along with baba yaga and orcs). Obviously the bestiary would have generic racial fluff with Golarion specific fluff in an AP.
We've already got a precedent for a simian race in the Mwangi Expanse; the charu-ka.
Obviously, Tengu will make a good race for an asian environment. For a south american environment a jaguar shapeshifter race. For Africa, cougar shapeshifters. Hate to say it, but a monkey type humanoid race would also fit in in an asian environment, as well as a fox shapeshfiter race. As much as werewolves and rats are european, the others I mentioned above are for their respective regions. A werebear makes more sense for a russian steppes kind of setting (along with baba yaga and orcs). Obviously the bestiary would have generic racial fluff with Golarion specific fluff in an AP.We've already got a precedent for a simian race in the Mwangi Expanse; the charu-ka.
So maybe they'll make it into B2, suitably generisized. ;)
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Creative Director
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So maybe they'll make it into B2, suitably generisized. ;)Obviously, Tengu will make a good race for an asian environment. For a south american environment a jaguar shapeshifter race. For Africa, cougar shapeshifters. Hate to say it, but a monkey type humanoid race would also fit in in an asian environment, as well as a fox shapeshfiter race. As much as werewolves and rats are european, the others I mentioned above are for their respective regions. A werebear makes more sense for a russian steppes kind of setting (along with baba yaga and orcs). Obviously the bestiary would have generic racial fluff with Golarion specific fluff in an AP.We've already got a precedent for a simian race in the Mwangi Expanse; the charu-ka.
Yup!
Well I was (predictably) going to mention catfolk but since someone already brought it up how about Kitsune?
I'm on the same boat with catfolk. I always hated the way they lumped all 'catfolk' into one race though, when it's so much more fun to differentiate them by genus (lions, and tigers and jaguars oh my!). ;)
1) When and if we expand the campaign setting and start to explore other continents like Tian Xia and Casmaron and Arcadia, I can pretty much GUARANTEE you'll be seeing some new PC races. Elves and dwarves don't make sense as "locals" in an Asian setting or an African setting or a South American setting, since theyr'e very European in their feel. So that's one way we'll eventually do some new races.
Excellent and logical
2) The bestiary line will continue to have new monsters that are humanoids with zero HD who can be used as PCs. The current Bestiary has things like goblins and orcs and tengus and tieflings, all of whom work pretty well as PC races (some better than others). The Bestiary 2 and 3 and 4 and so on will continue to introduce these new race options as well. There's about a dozen, IIRC in the Bestiary 2 already that we're working on. These new races will be presented in the same way as the 0-HD races in the Bestairy, and will be designed first and foremost as monsters, but they should work pretty well as PCs.
2 races that haven't gotten the full Rulebook version though are the tiefling and aasamir both of which are already in the setting. Why not give them the full treatment in the APG?
Actually, doing things this way can sort of be interpreted as a "stealth" playtest. We release several 0 HD monsters and folks start to use them as PCs anyway and in a year or two or five if we've heard how popular, say, goblin PCs are, then presto!
OK. But what about genasi wannabes? I recall you saying that at some point there will be a genasi type race but it would be a few years down the road. I assume you did not mean the Suli. How does something like that fit in? A small write up in a Bestiary?
New races are the most difficult things to fit into a game world. New spells, new classes, new feats... ALL of those things are elements you can add to a character during game play as you level up, but you only get to pick a new race once, at the start of a campaign. A proliferation of new race options doesn't really work unless you're in a situation where your players get to build new characters all the time, either because you build new characters each session or because your campaigns only last for a few sessions.
You only pick a race at the start of the campaign, or you have a killer-DM or the game doesn't last long? What a very ... un-Gygaxian viewpoint. Sounds like you are suggesting that games shouldn't have potentially deadly challenges on a semi-regular basis.
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half genies sound good. (Marid, Shaitan, Ifrit, Djinn)
just please try to balance them with the core races.
Some Yokai for Tian Xia (Neko Musume, Kitsune, Ame Warashi ETC. just please make any furry features optional rather than mandantory. some of us like are catgirls looking human but playing with balls of yarn out of the blue. or fishing in some samurai's koi pond by hand.)
preferably on par with core races
I've already built the Half-Genies for the Legacy of Fire campaign that I am running. It wasn't difficult and it fits the campaign well.
There are already 2 new races in the Qadira companion book. The Half-Janni and the Suli-Jann. They both rock. These 2 plus the 4 Half-genies
and you've got yourself plenty of extra races to choose from.
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half genies sound good. (Marid, Shaitan, Ifrit, Djinn)
just please try to balance them with the core races.
Some Yokai for Tian Xia (Neko Musume, Kitsune, Ame Warashi ETC. just please make any furry features optional rather than mandantory. some of us like are catgirls looking human but playing with balls of yarn out of the blue. or fishing in some samurai's koi pond by hand.)
preferably on par with core races
I've already built the Half-Genies for the Legacy of Fire campaign that I am running. It wasn't difficult and it fits the campaign well.
There are already 2 new races in the Qadira companion book. The Half-Janni and the Suli-Jann. They both rock. These 2 plus the 4 Half-genies
and you've got yourself plenty of extra races to choose from.
can you email me your 4 half genies?
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can you email me your 4 half genies?half genies sound good. (Marid, Shaitan, Ifrit, Djinn)
just please try to balance them with the core races.
Some Yokai for Tian Xia (Neko Musume, Kitsune, Ame Warashi ETC. just please make any furry features optional rather than mandantory. some of us like are catgirls looking human but playing with balls of yarn out of the blue. or fishing in some samurai's koi pond by hand.)
preferably on par with core races
I've already built the Half-Genies for the Legacy of Fire campaign that I am running. It wasn't difficult and it fits the campaign well.
There are already 2 new races in the Qadira companion book. The Half-Janni and the Suli-Jann. They both rock. These 2 plus the 4 Half-genies
and you've got yourself plenty of extra races to choose from.
Or just post them in the homebrew or onvrsion sections?
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Creative Director
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New races are the most difficult things to fit into a game world. New spells, new classes, new feats... ALL of those things are elements you can add to a character during game play as you level up, but you only get to pick a new race once, at the start of a campaign. A proliferation of new race options doesn't really work unless you're in a situation where your players get to build new characters all the time, either because you build new characters each session or because your campaigns only last for a few sessions.You only pick a race at the start of the campaign, or you have a killer-DM or the game doesn't last long? What a very ... un-Gygaxian viewpoint. Sounds like you are suggesting that games shouldn't have potentially deadly challenges on a semi-regular basis.
I'm suggesting that for a long-running campaign or an Adventure Path, swapping out characters is detrimental to building a sense of community in your party. And the way that Adventure Paths work are very un-Gygaxian, in that they aim to tell stories rather than present a more sandboxy, more wargamy approach to the game.
I'm suggesting that for a long-running campaign or an Adventure Path, swapping out characters is detrimental to building a sense of community in your party. And the way that Adventure Paths work are very un-Gygaxian, in that they aim to tell stories rather than present a more sandboxy, more wargamy approach to the game.
Amen brotha! I've played plenty of beer 'n pretzels games with disposable heroes (sometimes on character trees a la Dark Sun) and I find you never retain the long-term fondness for them you would with a campaign game. It is, however, nice for experimentalists who love to get their build on.
As for the storytelling - I find it is the breath of fresh air that is currently setting Paizo apart (and above) in the RPG sphere. Keep it up!
Mmmm...
Elves and dwarves don't fit in an asian feeling setting? Huh...
I tend to portray elves as very Heian-era courtier Japanese, and my dwarves are a weird mix of Norse and Shogunate era Japan, too... They're the most Asian feeling of my races in my world, honestly...
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Creative Director
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Elves and dwarves don't fit in an asian feeling setting? Huh...
I tend to portray elves as very Heian-era courtier Japanese, and my dwarves are a weird mix of Norse and Shogunate era Japan, too... They're the most Asian feeling of my races in my world, honestly...
What I'm talking about is that when you look at Asian myths, you don't find elves and dwarves as they exist in Golarion or most fantasy settings. You find similar myths, but they're different.
I fully suspect that there ARE elves and dwarves living in Tian Xia, and there might even be significant settlements of them here and there... but they're not "native" to that culture in the way, say, that a kitsune would be.
Elves and dwarves don't fit in an asian feeling setting? Huh...
I tend to portray elves as very Heian-era courtier Japanese, and my dwarves are a weird mix of Norse and Shogunate era Japan, too... They're the most Asian feeling of my races in my world, honestly...
What I'm talking about is that when you look at Asian myths, you don't find elves and dwarves as they exist in Golarion or most fantasy settings. You find similar myths, but they're different.
I fully suspect that there ARE elves and dwarves living in Tian Xia, and there might even be significant settlements of them here and there... but they're not "native" to that culture in the way, say, that a kitsune would be.
Or an Oni (Orc?).
Oni is an ogre mage if I recall
Yeap. As I perused the Oni in the bestiary, I fondly recalled the discussions we had about it online all that time ago.
Or an Oni (Orc?).
Thank you so MUCH. Like I needed another character idea.
Now I'm thinking of a Half-Orc Samurai.
Ranks in Diplomacy just to overcome his 'negative' parentage.
There certainly could be an orc oni...
Different kinds of oni? You in the mood to dish or tease?
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Creative Director
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There certainly could be an orc oni...Different kinds of oni? You in the mood to dish or tease?
Check out the Oni section in the Bestiary; there's a paragraph that talks about the oni subtype. Basically, there are indeed more kinds of oni out there, but ogre magi are generally the most common or well-known. All oni are native outsiders who also have to have a humanoid subtype, as they are evil spirits housed in mortal flesh. The majority of onis have the giant, goblinoid, tengu, or reptilian subtypes, but ANY humanoid subtype is possible. Including orc.
We haven't actually statted up any other forms of oni yet, but it's really only a matter of time.
Thanks, I thought I remembered something, I just didn't remember enough.
Yeah, I'd like to see more oni. And an EinC who is knee-deep in a certain bestiary 2 might just have something he could reveal about this...
There certainly could be an orc oni...Different kinds of oni? You in the mood to dish or tease?Was mentioned explicitly in the Bestiary in reference to the Ogre Mage...which is not actually related to an ogre anymore.
Bestiary mentions:
The oni are a diverse race of evil outsiders, of which the ogre mage is the most common. Other types of oni exist as well—evil spirits that clothe themselves in the flesh of other types of humanoid. The majority of oni are giants, with goblinoid, tengu, and reptilian oni being relatively common as well.I am personally anxious to see what more is done with this.
-Weylin
Personally, I'm hoping for an Oni template. Spirits wouldn't balk at any humanoid body they can get access to. Just because there are no dwarves where they normally live wouldn't stop one from taking over a visitor to the eastern shores.
Personally, I'm hoping for an Oni template. Spirits wouldn't balk at any humanoid body they can get access to. Just because there are no dwarves where they normally live wouldn't stop one from taking over a visitor to the eastern shores.
*pretends he did not read that, but makes a note to always have Protection from Evil memorized ... or made permanant*
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Creative Director
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Personally, I'm hoping for an Oni template. Spirits wouldn't balk at any humanoid body they can get access to. Just because there are no dwarves where they normally live wouldn't stop one from taking over a visitor to the eastern shores.
That's not the way oni work in Pathfinder though. They aren't sprits that possess living creatures; we have rules for that coming soon (in Pathfinder #28). Oni are evil spirits that come to the Material Plane and manifest brand new bodies with unique to each type of oni race appearances and powers. There's no more sense to making a "Demon" template than an "oni" template really. And of course, if you DO want an oni that's infused the living body of a mortal creature, the half-fiend template already exists.
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Creative Director
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I dont think they would even limit themselves to humanoid. You could have a Tuskumogami Oni (based of the japanese animated object yokai) who posses objects giving them an option of a humanoid form or that of the object.-Weylin
The way we've set up oni in Pathfinder, they ARE limited to humanoids. Doesn't mean we can't have possessed objects (again, see the upcoming article in Pathfinder #28), and oni can certainly use those possession rules... but oni themselves are set up to specifically be evil spirits in mortal humanoid flesh.
what about neko musume?
Reincarnation can also be used as a way to introduce new PC races.
Personally, I'm hoping for an Oni template. Spirits wouldn't balk at any humanoid body they can get access to. Just because there are no dwarves where they normally live wouldn't stop one from taking over a visitor to the eastern shores.That's not the way oni work in Pathfinder though. They aren't sprits that possess living creatures; we have rules for that coming soon (in Pathfinder #28). Oni are evil spirits that come to the Material Plane and manifest brand new bodies with unique to each type of oni race appearances and powers. There's no more sense to making a "Demon" template than an "oni" template really. And of course, if you DO want an oni that's infused the living body of a mortal creature, the half-fiend template already exists.
Right, but by making it a template, you can, instead of having to create each version from scratch (dwarf oni, orc oni, goblin oni, etc) you can create a 'template' that is not rrepresentative of them inhabiting a body, but instead represents an 'Oni version' of the sub race by merging the two. All Oni would have certain things in common. Think of it as a simplified template to allow the GM to easily create oni versions of other races/beasts. Specific (ie, common) Oni creations would be handled as separate creatures (like he ogre mage, or the orc oni discussed above). The template is just an easy shorthand for GM's to add a bit of flavor to the Oni bad guy lineup.
It gives the GM flexibility when making up his bad guy list. Oni stronghold? Great. Oh, we got ogre mages on patrol, ogre mages on watch, ogre mages cooking in the kitchen, ogre mages on parade.
Or...
We can instead have big bad ogre mages in the central tower, with Oni Goblin's on patrol, and Oni Humans cooking in the kitchen, with Oni Orcs on watch on tower top, and some Oni Dogs being ridden by the Oni Goblins. Basically, it gives the GM a way to make a quick oni from the creature + template to fill a role on the fly without needing to stat up every possible 'Oni version' of a creature. Anything specific or established (like the Oni Ogre Mage) would be a fully statted out creature that represents a major Oni version rather than a common mask. It could even be in the fluff that Oni try out various forms until they finally choose a 'master' version of that form. So there are no Oni template ogres, because they have settled on Ogre Mage as the ogre form.
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Just to point out again James, your audience is no longer strictly Golarion Adventure Path subscribers.
As one of those new customers, I don't want to be relegated to a second class citizen because I don't buy your AP lines.
I can't say I disagree.
I never have played in the Golarion setting and honestly don't plan on it. I own waaaay too many books as it is and would rather keep up with the core, class & race books rather than trying to get involved with an already established setting. Now this may change if a brand new setting comes out.This is why my group played Eberron almost exclusively rather than trying to play catchup with all the Forgotten Realms books. Plus we did really like the Eberron setting and only recently made an exception for Dragonlance because I got a copy at Gen Con for $5 a couple of years ago. We also played in that setting in our 2e days and have read some of the books so we are familiar with it. But if I had not got my $5 copy, we would have stuck with our homebrew and Eberron games.
Of course this whole race/campaign setting isn't that big of a deal for us as we only want to see an "official" construct race. That way we can keep our Pathfinder/Eberron campaign going by using "official" Pathfinder material. All of the other alternate races we want, except lizardfolk, are stated in the bestiary.
Unless there is some reason you can't have them, may I please suggest an upcoming Bestiary include the lupin race? I have the write up for them in the one Dragon hardcover Paizo put out a ways back. Also can we please put back the Werebear? My other main totem is Grizzly so I have interest in potentially playing ursine humanoids.
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Or just post them in the homebrew or onvrsion sections?can you email me your 4 half genies?half genies sound good. (Marid, Shaitan, Ifrit, Djinn)
just please try to balance them with the core races.
Some Yokai for Tian Xia (Neko Musume, Kitsune, Ame Warashi ETC. just please make any furry features optional rather than mandantory. some of us like are catgirls looking human but playing with balls of yarn out of the blue. or fishing in some samurai's koi pond by hand.)
preferably on par with core races
I've already built the Half-Genies for the Legacy of Fire campaign that I am running. It wasn't difficult and it fits the campaign well.
There are already 2 new races in the Qadira companion book. The Half-Janni and the Suli-Jann. They both rock. These 2 plus the 4 Half-genies
and you've got yourself plenty of extra races to choose from.
probably not... no offense but I'm not keen on offering up anything that I've written but I can tell you where one of them is although I tweaked it a little bit. The City of Brass boxed set from Necromancer games has the Half-Efreeti that I used as inspiration to do the other 3.
I think it would be neat to have a generic shifter-like race with 2 main branches: animalistic humanoids, and animal-headed humanoids.
There would be several different subraces included in the main race, to represent canids (fox, wolf, jackal, coyote, hyena), feline (cat, tiger, lion, leopard), corvids (crow, raven, jackdaw), ursine (black bear, grizzly), porcine (boar, pig, warthog), bovine (ox, bull), cervid (deer, stag, moose, elk), etc. etc.
The animalistic humanoids would have limited shifting ability, granting a small bonus to a physical ability score and a single special ability.
The animal-headed humanoids would have more permanent abilities, but lack some ease of interaction with regular humanoid folk due to their weird appearance.
Maybe include a sub-race that is small for small animals, like mice, rats, etc.
And maybe include a sub-race that is quadrupedal, but with humanoid heads, like sphinxes.
In fact, the only thing that I can think of that'd be HARDER to fit into an established game world or campaign than a new race is probably a new ability score. As a result, you'll see us do rules for new races before you see us do new ability scores.
So I have to sit through some annoying new race before I can see the Chutzpah ability score added to the game? What the Hell, Paizo? What. The. Hell.
;p
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The animal-headed humanoids would have more permanent abilities, but lack some ease of interaction with regular humanoid folk due to their weird appearance.
I'm not a huge fan of animal-people in general (the game has enough lizard, snake, frog and fish people, it seems!), but an animal-headed humanoid race that is descended from *Rakshasa,* and can be born with any sort of animal head, but all have the same basic racial characteristics, would be kinda neat. A pair of brothers might have a tiger head and a boar head, while their sister has the head of an eagle, and they are all have the same racial qualities, with only cosmetic differences.
So I have to sit through some annoying new race before I can see the Chutzpah ability score added to the game?
Chutzpah doesn't fit on a 3-18 scale. It's binary. You've got it, or you don't. :)
I'm not a huge fan of animal-people in general (the game has enough lizard, snake, frog and fish people, it seems!), but an animal-headed humanoid race that is descended from *Rakshasa,* and can be born with any sort of animal head, but all have the same basic racial characteristics, would be kinda neat. A pair of brothers might have a tiger head and a boar head, while their sister has the head of an eagle, and they are all have the same racial qualities, with only cosmetic differences.
Says the guy with the name of an animal headed Egyptian deity with the picture of yet another animal headed Egyptian deity.
So the Egyptian gods were descended from rakshasha?