Hmmm...not sure...Treantmonk - is there a way to download the guides from PFSRD site or do you just have to copy & paste them into a word document ?
I love the guides & they have given me new ideas to use with my characters
thanks for the hard work
It's not pretty, but you can save the googledoc as a .htm file. The pictures wink out, but all the text is there and you can open it offline with your webbrowser.
I'm sure some computer-savvy reader has a better solution.
Hmmm...not sure...Treantmonk - is there a way to download the guides from PFSRD site or do you just have to copy & paste them into a word document ?
I love the guides & they have given me new ideas to use with my characters
thanks for the hard work
They can still be downloaded from Google Docs, or at least I got one from there a few weeks ago unless the permissions have been changed.
Love all the guides, good stuff.
I was writing up one of my very own switch hitter types the other day, based on what Mr. Treantmonk has writen, and wondered whether or not a fighter with the same concept would work better?
Would the overall character be better or worse (combatively) than a ranger switch hitter? Granted I would'nt get things like track, a pet or favored enemy/terrain etc. but I wonder if a similar fighter build would out way those loses.
I'm at work so I can't look anything up right now.
Thoughts anyone?
The greastest perk of the Switch Hitter is his ability to ignore the requirements of Imp. Precise Shot. Without that the build becomes to dex intensive to aford a good STR and CON.
It can be done with Fighter, but would be extremely feat intensive, even for the Figther.
Humbly,
Yawar
Ah. I figured there was a reason, thanks
|
They can still be downloaded from Google Docs, or at least I got one from there a few weeks ago unless the permissions have been changed.Hmmm...not sure...Treantmonk - is there a way to download the guides from PFSRD site or do you just have to copy & paste them into a word document ?
I love the guides & they have given me new ideas to use with my characters
thanks for the hard work
I can get the older guides that have been updated from the google docs site but I cant seem to find a way to download them from the PFSRD site short of copying the page & pasting it into a word document & since the ranger one (I think) is only available from there I was hoping just to go to one site & get the most up to date version available every so often
Again Treantmonk love your guides & thank you soo much for all the work
|
Thank you Treantmonk, the guide is really well done and well presented.
I hope you are planning to do more of these, 'cause they are really useful in putting in the spotlight certain powers, feats and spells that would easily go unnoticed (at least by me).
I'd like to see a guide for Sorcerers. And for monks also! :)
Thank you Treantmonk, the guide is really well done and well presented.
I hope you are planning to do more of these, 'cause they are really useful in putting in the spotlight certain powers, feats and spells that would easily go unnoticed (at least by me).
I'd like to see a guide for Sorcerers. And for monks also! :)
He did one for monks. click me
|
|
He did one for monks. click me
Great! The problem of the (supposedly) weakling monk finally finds a solution! :)
Thank you!
I intend to do more guides at some point - but I'm taking a break for awhile.
I think a Fighter could be a switch hitter - though I would think a Paladin might be better (using Smite Evil for either ranged or melee).
Either way, the draw of the Ranger over either of these choices isn't martial ability. In general fighters are better at fighting than Rangers understandably.
|
If you don't want to read my analysis of the switch-hitting ranger in a Pathfinder Society Organized Play module then please skip down to the last section titled follow up and help me out with those questions. Thanks!
In starting this post I am going to admit that I am new to the pathfinder system and very experienced with 3.5. The only pathfinder books I have been exposed to are the Core Rulebook and Pathfinder Campaign Setting (Which I assume was 3.5 and pre- core rulebook?)
This past weekend I participated in 7 Pathfinder Scenarios, beginning as a 1st level Ranger and ending at 3rd level. I used Treantmonk's guide and decided to build a Switch-Hitting Ranger. However, I would like to make some suggestions about the initial build due to its application.
Basics: Some basics of the character before we begin:
20 point build:
Str:18
Dex:14
Con:14
Int:12
Wis:12
Cha:7
Basic Equipment: Falchion, Mighty Composite Longbow (+4), Breastplate
The Good: This build was extremely powerful yet I think it would have been slightly more effective as a fighter. However, bear in mind that I have not reached 4th level yet for the animal companion and spell use. He was unmatched in our party for damage and killed at least 75% of our enemies (to my glee our tank looked at me wide eyed when I announced 15 damage on a roll of 6 ). We did fight enemies with Damage Reduction and this posed no problem.
Precise Shot: I noticed a substantial argument about whether to choose Rapid Shot or Precise Shot. Now, this is probably only applicable to Pathfinder Society Modules as they are close quarters but I found that whenever I had the opportunity to shoot my bow (which wasn't much) I was always advancing into position to use my sword. Hence, I would never give up all my movement for a full-round action to utilize Rapid Shot. So I chose Precise shot which proved extremely useful because due to reduced speed by my breastplate I sometimes was left waiting to engage. This allowed me to move into position for a charge, shoot my bow, then next turn charge. It also gave me some comfort in knowing my arrows will shoot a little more accurately since my bow attack is significantly less than sword (-2).
Deadly Aim: When third level came I was at a dilemma. Although this build was made for a sword and bow, I came to the realization that my bow just wasn't doing enough damage and I wanted to wade into melee as quickly as possible. So at first I decided to look at what feats I could get to make my sword better. Of course there is Weapon Focus but that isn't substantial enough to use up one of the limited feats a switch-hitter has. The only appealing thing is Step-Up which is situational. In the end, I decided to stay with Deadly Aim on the basis that at lvl 4 it will increase damage output even more.
Conclusion: The switch hitter was a great build that definitely held its own in combat and with skills. I think that a fighter may shine more at lower levels but am looking forward to see how the build will fair at higher levels. Also, I think where this build beats the fighter is that his focus in combat is overkill. My character was killing monsters with no problem AND had the ability to help the group out of combat, identify nature creatures, perceive possible threats, ect.
These are just some quick follow up questions:
Animal Companion: Is the feat to boost their HD only from 3.5 or is it in any of the allowed Pathfinder books for the Pathfinder Society? Also, Treantmonk you mention that a leopard/cheetah is the best animal companion and yet the ranger is not allowed to choose either of these? Is there some book that disregards that rule?
Thanks!
P.S. Thank you for putting the time to make that guide. It was very well written and made key points I hadn't thought about. Great Job!
Treantmonk, I've PMed you to your Gleemax account.
Humbly,
Yawar
Stuff ;)
I'm also playing a Switch Hitter (in a Council of Thieves game) and he basically can kill anything (except for some shadows ... no magic weapon yet :P).
And the damage at lower levels is great, 2handed weapons, high str and power attack are waaaaay overpowered at the lower levels.
In my group I've helped build a fighter with a falchion, high str and power attack and he just obliterates the mooks. But out of combat he is useless ... besides comic relief when he tries anything that requires people skills ;)
The ranger can do alot more, I'm level 4 now but have not been able to get my animal companion (currently in a place where we leveled to lvl4 OR use my spells (I almost instantly lost 1 wis point ... dropping to wis 11 :P)
I also went for Precise Shot instead of Rapid Shot. Since we're mostly in melee, removing the -4 penalty is very good. (IMHO).
I can't wait until level 6. Deadly aim Manyshot with a +4 C-longbow, 2d8+16 if the first one hit, for only a -2 penalty. I know I'll be using my bow alot more.
I think I've already said it once in this thread, but thanks again for the nice guide ... and helping me kick @ss :P
-TDL
|
|
Haha yeah I know all the monsters fell like nothing infront of me and DM got kind of annoyed everytime I busted out my sword.
I think at lvl 6 I may get Improved Precise Shot first over many shot. The bow seems to be more of a utility for the switch hitter rather than being 1 to 1 with the sword (which is not a bad thing). For my play style, I am always moving to get into position so I only use a bow when my movement won't reach a target. Standing still for many shot isn't worth it for me. However, with Improved Precise Shot I now have an outlet that will let me take down foes with concealment/cover.
Are you thinking about taking Vital Shot? I was debating getting it at 5th level unless there is a valid feat for the pathfinder society that lets me beef my animal companion...
Animal Companion: Is the feat to boost their HD only from 3.5 or is it in any of the allowed Pathfinder books for the Pathfinder Society? Also, Treantmonk you mention that a leopard/cheetah is the best animal companion and yet the ranger is not allowed to choose either of these? Is there some book that disregards that rule?
I'm not sure about the HD-boosting Feat, but to answer your other question the Leopard and Cheetah companions are on the Rangers list because they fall under the Cat(Small) category of companion.
A ranger who selects an animal companion can choose from the following list: badger, bird, camel, cat (small), dire rat, dog, horse, pony, snake (viper or constrictor), or wolf.
Treantmonk, I've corrected the problem with the link. BTW, sorry.
Humbly,
Yawar
In my group I've helped build a fighter with a falchion, high str and power attack and he just obliterates the mooks. But out of combat he is useless ...
That's the thing with fighters. In combat they are the toughest melee option you can make (arguably), but outside, they don't have much to offer.
I prefer greater versatility.
Leopard and Cheetah companions are on the Rangers list because they fall under the Cat(Small) category of companion.
yup - and for the purposes of AC - they are identical mechanically.
Treantmonk, I've corrected the problem with the link
works now - give me a few days and I'll give you some feedback.
|
|
There is a feat on the Pathfinder Chronicles: Seekers of Secrets that makes your ranger level be considered 4 levels higher (up to your HD) for the propouse of animal companions. I know nothing about Pathfinder Society but the feat is called Boon Companion i think
Thank you! That's the feat I was looking for and the Seeker's of Secrets is accepted material for the society.
I feel dumb for the whole cat(small) thing. Should have caught that :/ thanks Moro.
works now - give me a few days and I'll give you some feedback.
Thank you very much!
Humbly,
Yawar
Super cheesy, and I wouldn't allow it if I was the DM, but for your consideration in the unlikely event it hadn't occurred to you already.
With -1 hit +1 dmg being considered a valid trade with ranged damage, statistically it's beneficial to use a huge longbow.
Large Longbow (2d6)
-2 hit, + 2.5 dmg
Huge Longbow (3d6)
-4 hit, + 6 dmg
Arguably a Gargantuan Longbow would do 4d8 damage (based on scaling a tiny 2d6 weapon up twice) and gain -6 hit, +13.5 damage.
Obviously double the damages for vital strike.
Haha yeah I know all the monsters fell like nothing infront of me and DM got kind of annoyed everytime I busted out my sword.
I think at lvl 6 I may get Improved Precise Shot first over many shot. The bow seems to be more of a utility for the switch hitter rather than being 1 to 1 with the sword (which is not a bad thing). For my play style, I am always moving to get into position so I only use a bow when my movement won't reach a target. Standing still for many shot isn't worth it for me. However, with Improved Precise Shot I now have an outlet that will let me take down foes with concealment/cover.
Hmmm ... that's actually a very good point ... meaning you will actually hit most of the time ... I think I'll even put that into my own character. Forfeiting Many Shot completely though, since I'm going for a prestige class...
There is a feat on the Pathfinder Chronicles: Seekers of Secrets that makes your ranger level be considered 4 levels higher (up to your HD) for the propouse of animal companions. I know nothing about Pathfinder Society but the feat is called Boon Companion i think
Boon Companion
Your bond with your animal companion or familiar is unusually close.Prerequisites: Animal companion or familiar class ability.
Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher, to a maximum bonus equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit. If you lose or dismiss an animal companion or familiar, you may apply this feat to the replacement creature.
Special: You may select this feat more than once. The effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a different animal companion or familiar.
Meaning it only works when you multiclass. Else it would be TOO good to be true.
I also read it like gaining 4 more levels for the animal companion for the cost of only one feat.
Meaning, a level 4 ranger: Level 4 + 4 = 8, limited to characater level 4 = 4 ... no effect.
It was specifically made to use when you go for a Pathfinder Prestige Class from the Seekers of Secrets book.
I went and did that ... going the Pathfinder Student of War route.
Far from optimized, a full ranger is much better, but since I'm playing Council of Thieves with a Pathfinder background(trait) it seemed a good roleplaying choice.
|
|
Meaning, a level 4 ranger: Level 4 + 4 = 8, limited to characater level 4 = 4 ... no effect.
Doesn't the Ranger's Animal Companion start with level -3? So a level 4 ranger without the feat has an Animal Companion of level 1? I think the feat works great because at lvl 8 I plan on taking one dip in fighter to start the Improved Critical Falchion line of feats early and gain Heavy Armor Proficiency for free. So the extra level Animal Boon gives you will cover for the one level dip in fighter.
It will stay at level 1 ... because it's to the max of the character level ... and then stil -3 :)
Now if you're a ranger 4 / fighter 4 ... normally you'd have an animal companion of only 1st level.
Take the feat, at level 5 for instance, and it starts to level up four more levels. Giving you an animal companion of level 5.
But I'd not use this feat if you only take 1 level of fighter ... imho :)
-TDL
About Boon Companion:
If its true that it won't help a full-classed ranger, you could multiclass ranger 4 with druid 1. Like the feat's cap doesn't take into acount the effective class level, only your class level, you would end, in my example, with an effective druid level of 6.
As another example, a ranger 4/druid 4 who took the feat twice will end with an effective druid level of 13.
Humbly,
Yawar
Is an animal companion even worth it then since as a ranger it will always work as 3 levels lower than your total character level.
It's much better than the alternative option. At least your companion can be used to provide a flanking bonus or cover, block movement (charges in particular) and other such things. It should also have a pretty nice perception score (with Scent!), and we all know it never hurts to have another die roll for those checks.
I'm sticking with the Wolf.
It starts at medium ... and becomes large at level 7.
I intend to give it Light and Medium Armor Training ... creating a "Breastplate" barding.
+4 Natural Armor, +6 Barding and +2 Dex, a 22 AC is pretty decent ;)
Since it's 3 levels behind, I figure giving it a good AC will help his survival.
-TDL
It will stay at level 1 ... because it's to the max of the character level ... and then stil -3 :)
Now if you're a ranger 4 / fighter 4 ... normally you'd have an animal companion of only 1st level.
Take the feat, at level 5 for instance, and it starts to level up four more levels. Giving you an animal companion of level 5.
But I'd not use this feat if you only take 1 level of fighter ... imho :)
-TDL
This is incorrect, the author of the feat clarifies it in this thread:
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/chronicles/ seekersOfSecretsFeatsBasically he says that a single classed Ranger's companion would be the equivilent to a Druid's of his level.
|
|
This is incorrect, the author of the feat clarifies it in this thread:
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/chronicles/ seekersOfSecretsFeatsBasically he says that a single classed Ranger's companion would be the equivilent to a Druid's of his level.
Yea, that's how I interpretted it as well. Thanks for the link. Haha, and I was already looking at dipping more into fighter but depending on how well animal companion works out I may only dip once.
This is incorrect, the author of the feat clarifies it in this thread:
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/chronicles/ seekersOfSecretsFeatsBasically he says that a single classed Ranger's companion would be the equivilent to a Druid's of his level.
The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were four levels higher -> So level 4 becomes 7.
to a maximum bonus equal to your character level -> the maximum level of the ANIMAL COMPANION or FAMILIAR would be level 4.
Alright ... Now it sounds alot more interesting ;)
Let me send that link to my GM :D
I suppose this could be the place to ask.
One of my friends is going to be joining a game soon and is thinking of Arcane Archer as his main ideal. Is ranger a good stepping stone? It just seems that ranger loses a lot of his charm and his goodies when he dives into AA. He's also considering bard -> AA or paladin/sorcerer -> AA.
I suppose this could be the place to ask.
One of my friends is going to be joining a game soon and is thinking of Arcane Archer as his main ideal. Is ranger a good stepping stone? It just seems that ranger loses a lot of his charm and his goodies when he dives into AA. He's also considering bard -> AA or paladin/sorcerer -> AA.
I wouldn't suggest Ranger as a stepping stone for AA for 2 reasons:
1) The Ranger is not an arcane caster, so you need to multiclass to enter
2) The Ranger has lots of non-combat based class abilities that won't progress with multiclassing.
Personally, I think Straight Bard is a great way to enter AA, but Fighter/Wizard or Fighter/Sorcerer are both good too. (and you'll find both those options much easier on the feats)
Paladin/Sorcerer might be a good combo to enter AA - just because you are already CHA based as a Paladin. I haven't really thought about it too much - but I expect it would work nicely.
Treant my good man, I know your taking a break from guides at the moment, but will you be updating your existing ones with the new APG content when it comes out?
Treant my good man, I know your taking a break from guides at the moment, but will you be updating your existing ones with the new APG content when it comes out?
Very likely.
I did mean Mr. TreeMinky hates playing Clerics!
No one really hates the guy with the heal stick! Unless every dose comes with a bloody sermon ;)
Hmmm, I was hoping for a bit of advice with regards to approaching the class without any single (extremely) high ability score, but good all-around scores.
I had been keeping up with this thread with the anticipation that I might be able to play a Switch-Hitter in an upcoming campaign, but I have found that my ability score distribution (non-point buy) might not support this. Any advice on what to do with really good all-around scores, but no colossal strength score?
My raw scores are as follows:
15
15
14
13
13
12and I am thinking of placing them as follows:
St 15
Dex 15 + 2 = 17
Con 13 + 2 = 15
Wis 14 - 2 = 13
Int 13
Ch 12Please note that I am interested in playing a specific homebrew race (hence my ability score adjustments and the lack of placement in strength). Now these are great stats--don't get me wrong--but the lack of a large strength score has me worried. I'm concerned whether I can continue down the path of a switch-hitter and be effective, or if some adjustment in how I planned to approach combat with this character is in order. What am I not seeing? What could I change to be effective? Am I better of completely reconsidering and maybe taking a look back at the iconic archer?
I'm still new to Pathfinder, so I'm sure there is much I am missing and any advice in this area would be greatly appreciated!
From an optimization standpoint I would recommend taking a look at Paladin.
The Paladin has several attribute requirements, but isn't as strength dependent because of smite evil. Definitely worth considering.
Another possibility is to go with a Wildshape Druid. Also has several stat requirements and does OK with decent but not super-high stats.
I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but Mithril Full Plate is medium armor so you don't need heavy armor proficiency to wear it.
Wrong -- It counts as medium armor for everything except proficiency. The mithral entry is explicit about this.
|
I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but Mithril Full Plate is medium armor so you don't need heavy armor proficiency to wear it.Wrong -- It counts as medium armor for everything except proficiency. The mithral entry is explicit about this.
So it does. I guess I should get used to being wrong now that Paizo has changed a lot of small rules that a lot of people will overlook at first.
Happens all the time to everyone, so don't take it too hard... wait until you get into a discussion about a spell and everyone is going off, until someone walks in and points out that one of the points everyone has taken for granted is completely different from what it originally was in 3.5 and that small change completely nullifies the argument.
Thanks for the work, TM! We're looking to start a PFRPG game Saturday and my wife - true to her style - wants to play a Ranger. I snagged your guide and slapped it into OpenOffice, so we'll see how it prints out. This should help her out a lot as we make the transition from 3.5 to PF.
Has it been emphasized before that for an archer ranger, mounted combat & mounted archery are a must have? Your animal companion can make a solid (flying at that) mount, and now you can double move AND full attack. Even more so if CW feats are available; e.g. improved mounted archery.
Has it been emphasized before that for an archer ranger, mounted combat & mounted archery are a must have? Your animal companion can make a solid (flying at that) mount, and now you can double move AND full attack. Even more so if CW feats are available; e.g. improved mounted archery.But the Mounted Combat rules (p.202 ¨Combat while Mounted¨) say that if your mount moves more 5 foot you can only make single attack because you have to wait.
Humbly,
Yawar
That particular rule specifically states that for a melee attack. Further down the page it reads:
You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.
Mounted Archery halves the penalties, making a mounted ranger with the archery combat style absolutely devastating in terrain where he can fully use his mounts mobility.
|
|
I know the bestiary says that it has new options of animal companions for the druid and ranger, but does that mean that all of the new companions can be chosen like the ranger? They don't have a different list like the Core rulebook so I was wondering if the new animal companions are available to the ranger. If so, are they legal for pathfinder society play too?
|
I've spent quite a bit of time with Mastering the Malconvoker in the past couple weeks. Great to see some PF RPG guides by you, too.
After taking a look at the 3.5 Archery Handbook when considering a mounted archer, and at the same time getting a vibe of "cool" from a pass-through of the 4th Edition Marauder Ranger in Martial Power 2, I'd thought of doing the same with a Cavalier/Halfling Outrider. Your Switch Hitter will give some good food for thought if I ever find a chance to play the character.
Thanks for your ideas!