I recently bought Hero Lab. Love the program. As a designer and contributor, I would love for monster creation -- using everything that's in the bestiary and including adding PC classes and PrCs -- to be as easy as making a character. I only want to go to something like the Editor when I'm inventing an entirely new magic item, ability, spell, race, class or PrC.
That ability, combined with what's already in Hero Lab, is my holy grail. I would utterly pay extra for a Bestiary data set and monster design screens.
We spent a few hours hashing through this today, and we came up with a plan, so I figured I would share it....
We're going to be adding all of the monsters from the Bestiary in a separate add-on package that can be purchased for Pathfinder. The cost will likely be in $10-15 range, in an effort to offset the cost of spending all the hours to input everything. Given that we already have existing resource commitments for the next few weeks, the plan is to get this completed by mid-January.
We'll also be developing more extensive tutorials that are specifically targeted to users wanting to add their own monsters to the Pathfinder files. These tutorials will delve into the specific types of things that come up when creating complex monsters. We'll provide detailed examples that should enable users to add 95% of the monsters they can think up, plus all the Bestiary monsters will be available as examples for reference.
In regards to streamlining the Editor to improve monster creation, we have a few ideas, but they will require significant work within Hero Lab itself. We're not sure how much work is involved, plus we have to weigh it against all the other stuff we have planned for Hero Lab to decide what makes it into the next major update. So no commitments on this particular aspect, but we're definitely looking to see what we can accomplish.
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Wow! That's pretty rocking! What a great step forward. My holy grail swims into sight, in the distance. It may yet prove not too perilous (veiled MP reference)!
Seriously, this is delish. And you're working on/considering monster creation/design screens for a future (albeit uncommitted) release? Titanic.
If you had pre-orders, I'd pre-order the Bestiary data today. It's like Christmas before Christmas.
Psyched in NY.
- Lou
We spent a few hours hashing through this today, and we came up with a plan, so I figured I would share it....
We're going to be adding all of the monsters from the Bestiary in a separate add-on package that can be purchased for Pathfinder. The cost will likely be in $10-15 range, in an effort to offset the cost of spending all the hours to input everything. Given that we already have existing resource commitments for the next few weeks, the plan is to get this completed by mid-January.
We'll also be developing more extensive tutorials that are specifically targeted to users wanting to add their own monsters to the Pathfinder files. These tutorials will delve into the specific types of things that come up when creating complex monsters. We'll provide detailed examples that should enable users to add 95% of the monsters they can think up, plus all the Bestiary monsters will be available as examples for reference.
In regards to streamlining the Editor to improve monster creation, we have a few ideas, but they will require significant work within Hero Lab itself. We're not sure how much work is involved, plus we have to weigh it against all the other stuff we have planned for Hero Lab to decide what makes it into the next major update. So no commitments on this particular aspect, but we're definitely looking to see what we can accomplish.
That's awesome, and I'll pony up $10 or $15 bucks for that.
Awesome! I was just thinking about this last night as I statted up a 7th lvl barb. ogre. Really looking forward to this.
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I use Hero lab and like it a lot. I've looked at the other two (not extensively) but found that I like Hero Lab for a few features that have been mentioned before by others, but are mentioned again here for emphasis:
Intuitive interface, Pathfinder Society support, accurate PC error description, frequent updates, and lastly Player & GM in game console. Not only does the in game console track HP & spell usage, it also allows the user to add combat related conditions on the fly such as entangled, grappled, stunned, fatigued, etc. which is pretty awesome since many of my players bring laptops to the game table and this allows them to avoid re-writing portions of their character sheet when their PC is affected by such a condition. Add to that an initiative order tracking and a forthcoming Beastiary add-on and it's my winner.
If one were to make a request to the Hero Lab developers about new features to add to an already incredible program, it would be network support for LAN or internet games. The ability for the DM to adjust player conditions in game and have that be reflected on an individual player's console would be outstanding. And conversely, if players could see NPC & monster conditions and injury level (uninjured, moderately injured, seriously injured, etc.) from their console that would be great too!
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I'll add my voice as another user who was burned by Hero Labs DRM. License will not reactivate after upgrading my computer to Windows 7.
Reading Rob's responses on the matter is illuminating, I regret hearing that piracy was so rampant with his product. But that doesn't change the fact that myself and the previous user find ourselves in this situation.
The DRM is rather strict, 1 install per license every 120 days. No option to have a client 'unauthorized' and move the software that I can see, either. Though I have stumbled upon the 'secondary licenses' that are intended to be used to allow you to install the software on another computer.
What makes it worse is the 'no support by telephone' clause they have and the 2-3 day support response. Just not good when combined with the above situation.
I disagree on DRM on principle, I will admit, but if you must use it (And Rob seems to think that he must, his evidence makes a strong argument for him, as well. 4:1 piracy is... well, ouch.) Then please do the following:
1) Let users UNAUTHORIZE their clients so that they can make upgrades as necessary on their schedules.
2) Increase the number of activations per 120 days.
3) Have a responsive customer support reachable by PHONE. I'm not expecting 24/7 support for a small company, but being able to call during normal business hours? I expect that from every company. Issues such as this should also be handled in quick order, or even have some sort of automation to them.
Had I known about these restrictions, I would not have purchased the software, and knowing about them now, I can not recommend this software for purchase. (And before you bring it up, I bought a boxed copy at GenCon, and nowhere on the box that I've found does it warn of DRM.)
Edit:
Also, now that I'm aware of your hostile responses towards this issue, I'm not only surprised, but disappointing. DRM may be an necessary evil in your eyes, but blaming a customer for being upset by having it lock him out of his software?
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Edit:
Also, now that I'm aware of your hostile responses towards this issue, I'm not only surprised, but disappointing. DRM may be an necessary evil in your eyes, but blaming a customer for being upset by having it lock him out of his...
Rob got in touch with me and resolved my issues, and after speaking with him I regret my above statement in the edit. Everyone has bad days, and I'm not exactly a fan of pirates either.
Fantastic. I meant to reply, and somehow I manage to edit this response.
Rob got in touch with me and resolved my issues, and after speaking with him I regret my above statement in the edit. Everyone has bad days, and I'm not exactly a fan of pirates either.
My initial response indicated that I wasn't going to respond about this issue until I saw this, but, Perram, you have no reason to apologize. Rob needs to understand that his hostility is off-putting.
I'm not a fan of DRM, and was wary of the software due to the descriptions of the impacted functionality, and my ability to use the software. The hostility from Rob has made up my mind for me, and should understand that this has cost him a lost sale/customer (for that matter, it's cost him multiple lost sales/customers, as my gaming group has often looked to me for recommendation on accessories of this type. I was an early adopter of eTools, and due to my use and enjoyment of the software and datasets that I had purchased, several members also purchased the software and datasets that appealed to them.
(Hopefully, I'll manage not to dink the post this time.)
Also, now that I'm aware of your hostile responses towards this issue, I'm not only surprised, but disappointing. DRM may be an necessary evil in your eyes, but blaming a customer for being upset by having it lock him out of his...
I realize that you've already said you regret making the above comment, but I'm still trying to understand it. I don't see where I got hostile towards a customer or blaming him for the problem. I definitely got defensive - some might claim hostile - in response to a *non*-customer jumping in with accusations that were completely unfounded and based entirely on speculation. However, I don't believe that's how I responded to the *customer* who first reported the problem.
Please help me to understand what I said that lead you to make your post. I'm a developer by trade and that's where my skills reside. All the public relations stuff is a necessary part of being a small company, but it's not something I'm trained in, so I'm seeking to learn from this.
Edit: Brian, since you reacted the same way, please chime in as well.
Edit: Brian, since you reacted the same way, please chime in as well.
A> You're not happy that someone brought up a functionality issue with their software on a public forum - something that illustrates exactly why anti-DRM advocates are anti-DRM.
B> Your comment to scranford was snarky and rude:
Do you have an initial clue about why the email might not have been seen or replied to?
The remainder of your response is in the same tone.
C> You basically accuse a portion of your customer base as being would-be software "pirates":
But I'm certain we've gained *significantly* more customers who have bought the software because they can't readily pirate it.
You follow it up with an underhanded insult:
If you are an honest user of software products, I commend you.
That reads as if you don't really believe that the person you're responding to is actually an honest user, and that you assume the majority of people are those nasty thieves.
D> The rest of your argument is just unprofessional. You admit to not being a customer service guy, and that you're in the role because you're a small company.
First recommendation - don't argue with your customer base (or potential customer base). It really doesn't matter if another_mage or myself or anyone else isn't a customer (hell, *WE* are exactly the people you should be careful with - you've already sold the product to your customer. Keeping them is easier than obtaining us).
Second recommendation - find someplace to pick up some customer service skills.
An easy response to this situation? "I'm sorry you disagree, but our market research and experience has led us to believe that this is the best solution at this time, and our sales seem to agree with us. If a less-restrictive solution were to present itself, we'd be very interested in it's implemenation. Unfortunately, we don't feel that a DRM-free product would be conducive to our continued successful business model."
You really shouldn't feel the need to apologize. Rob should be aware of exactly how off-putting his hostility was. I've refrained from mentioning it until I saw this post, but, yeah - I'm not a big fan of DRM that makes it a pain in the ass for me to utilize the stuff I purchase, but was still interested in the product in spite of that.
That said, having seen the little outburst in this thread, well, chalk up a lost sale/customer (or multiple sales/customers, as members of my game group tend to follow my lead on accessory purchases such as this - as an example, they all bought eTools and multiple datasets after they saw how much use I got out of it).
Thank you - my original post is quoted there for posterity. I'm glad it's not lost.
Brian,
You're welcome to feel however you wish about Rob's reaction. However I didn't share your reaction to it.
I think it is very easy for would-be customers to assail a vendor with any sort of comment they care to make. If the vendor wants to make the sale, he has to submit to whatever they care dish out. However, that responsibility doesn't go both ways; they can say whatever they like and then either choose not to buy the product, or they can still buy it and no one need be the wiser. The only standard they're held to is whatever standard they wish to adopt.
That's the nature of sales/customer service. The customer gets to be opinionated and emotional, the salesperson/customer service representative, not so much.
Unfortunately, that is something people in sales have to put up with. Nevertheless, that doesn't make it fair or just. It just demonstrates the distribution of power. That is, "Rob just takes it, or he looks like a bad guy."
Rob doesn't need to "just take it" or look "like a bad guy." As I demonstrated, it would have been quite simple to politely, professionally respond in disagreement to the comments that were posted.
There's plenty of ways to handle it. You're never going to please everyone, but you need to go out of your way to not cause more damage than has already been done. There was already one person, who at one time was a potential customer, who's displeased now, and voicing his reasons - reasons, that, were they addressed to that potential customer's satisfaction, would likely turn him from potential customer into valued customer.
As I've illustrated with myself, there was also a potential customer that was displeased with those same issues, but to a lesser level, and was on the fence, who, through the actions of that salesperson, isn't on the fence anymore.
There was clearly some communication problem between the original gentleman who had a complaint and Lone Wolf's office, and it was not entirely the fault of Lone Wolf. The gentleman took the matter to the Court of Public Opinion. I'm glad he got his situation resolved, but there were other alternatives.
He wasn't finding those alternatives, and saw a chance to have his issue addressed here, where a representative was present and participating. As I pointed out, the way his issue responded to is what *I* take issue with. Rob could have quite easily stated "scranford - please email me at customer.service@mycompany.com, and we'll get your issue taken care of immediately." He could have also posted an explanation of how his DRM works, and explained his side of it, minus the snark and rudeness.
I have to seriously wonder if any one would have done as well in a public forum when their livelihood was being attacked, while trying to resolve a private customer service problem on a 3rd party message board. Speaking strictly for myself, I could not presume to toss a stone, living in this glass house.
Seriously? So we're not to let a representative of a company know about their poor customer service? Reducing this situation to "his livelihood was being attacked" is disingenuous. He's a representative of his company, and as such, needs to realize that his actions are directly responsible for his livelihood. Am I to refrain from saying "I don't like my Ford, here's the reasons why" because I'd be attacking the livelihood of Ford employees?
I'm sorry - I'm just as opinionated and emotional as the next guy, but when I'm wearing my employer-issued ID badge, my opinions and emotions are gone, replaced with those of my company and it's best interests. If my company's opinions and best interests are to damage the opportunity for sales, then more power to them. Most don't operate as such.
I bear Rob no ill-will, but I think it's valuable for him to be aware of how he's impacting his business (at least, in regards to this customer).
Maybe at a later date, as both the application, the features that I dislike, and the company matures, I might regain interest in the product.
A> You're not happy that someone brought up a functionality issue with their software on a public forum - something that illustrates exactly why anti-DRM advocates are anti-DRM.
My reaction had nothing to do with the fact that it was a DRM issue. I would have reacted the same to virtually any issue brought to a public forum like this. The reason I don't like it is because it usually gets at least one person with no information about the situation to chime in with unsubstantiated theories presented as fact (as happened in this thread). That results in me spending many hours to debunk the misinformation. Those are hours I would much rather spend adding features to the product, hence my dislike.
Edit: I also don't monitor forums like this one more than sporadically. So it's easy for a post on a forum like this to go unnoticed for a couple days or more. We have our own public forums that we monitor more frequently where issues like this can be aired. If a user wants to get a timely response, he's much more likely to get one on our forums than places like this. It was pure happenstance that had me check here Friday evening. That's just another reason for my dislike of customer support posts on forums like this - a reason that has nothing to do with DRM specifically.
B> Your comment to scranford was snarky and rude:
Do you have an initial clue about why the email might not have been seen or replied to?
Guilty as charged. I certainly didn't catch that one.
C> You basically accuse a portion of your customer base as being would-be software "pirates":
But I'm certain we've gained *significantly* more customers who have bought the software because they can't readily pirate it.
Unfortunately, our personal experience bears out the statement. There are lots of folks out there who will happily pirate software and only buy it if they can't get away with pirating it. I agree it's not a rosy statement, but it's a painful reality. The alternative is to pretend it doesn't exist, but then that begs the question of why we need the DRM in the first place. So I'm at a loss regarding how to actually respond to something like this.
You follow it up with an underhanded insult:
If you are an honest user of software products, I commend you.That reads as if you don't really believe that the person you're responding to is actually an honest user, and that you assume the majority of people are those nasty thieves.
At that point, the post had explicitly shifted its focus away from the original poster and was addressing all readers in general. So it wasn't a reflection on the original poster with the problem, but a general address. Sadly, our hard numbers tell me that the majority of gamers are content to pirate software if they can.
That being said, I wholly agree that it's not something people respond well to. So I'll keep closer tabs on how I present information like that in the future.
First recommendation - don't argue with your customer base (or potential customer base).
How do you recommend handling the situation when someone with no information starts asserting speculative theories as fact? I feel like I'm left with no choice but to debunk those assertions with proper facts. But it sounds like you disagree with that.
An easy response to this situation? "I'm sorry you disagree, but our market research and experience has led us to believe that this is the best solution at this time, and our sales seem to agree with us. If a less-restrictive solution were to present itself, we'd be very interested in it's implemenation. Unfortunately, we don't feel that a DRM-free product would...
Hmmm. For me, quotes like the one above tend to foster a *barrier* with users, albeit a very non-confrontational one. Over the years, Lone Wolf Development has earned a very loyal customer base of nearly 100,000 users (across 3 products), and we've done it by being open and honest with our users. In the situation earlier in this thread, a response like the above does absolutely nothing to dispel negative attitudes towards DRM, and it provides no reasons for why DRM might actually be an unfortunate necessity for the business. For me, a quote like the above is tantamount to saying "trust us", and my experience is that a company saying "trust us" is one of the best ways to foment distrust and conspiracy theories amongst gamers.
I guess I need to come up with something inbetween. And it primarily boils down to my tone. After putting in a long week of work, the post that started this arrived on a Friday night - when I couldn't get ahold of anybody to find out the details on our end. I let that frustration get the best of me and seep into my posts. Definitely my bad.
My sincere apologies to those who took offense at the way I presented my posts. And thanks for the feedback!
Er, wasn't there a post in here from Watcher? It looks like Brian replied to it and quoted parts of it, but it's nowhere to be found. Did it get deleted?
Very confused....
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Brian has addressed the tone issues, so I won't go into those details. I still regret calling you out on them considering how you helped me with my technical issues, and as I said before, I figure it was probably just a bad day. (you admit to as much in your first post "10 hours of crapola")
That said I still haven't changed my opinions much on your DRM, the possibility that the DRM might become an issue isn't a possibility. Its a reality both here and elsewhere. Myself and the previous poster have had it get in our way, there are more reports than us on your own forums, including those who's DRM locked the software down just by running an update. Its obviously not a flawless system.
Considering the previously mentioned and highly public instance of the Yahoo DRM fiasco, its pretty obvious why its a hot button issue.
DRM offers no positives to a paying customer. At best its a minor inconvenience that they won't notice, and at worst... well, it prevents them from using software that they have purchased.
I've used the term 'Necessary Evil' in regards to it in your particular situation given your rather severe experience with piracy which in my experience is uncommon. I have a personal disdain for pirates that are responsible for this issue even existing and I feel it should be treated just as severely as any other form of theft.
But it is still an 'Evil', necessary or not. I would much prefer that it did not exists, and it will always remain a 'negative' about your software as long as it does.
As for bringing this issue here to the public? That is consumer responsibility. We vote on what we like and don't like with our voice and our wallets. I've tried very hard to represent the situation as truthfully as I can, and update these posts (both here and elsewhere) as the situation changed, but potential customers should know what they are purchasing, the good and the bad.
The software itself is quite good. These other issues? Not so much.
Er, wasn't there a post in here from Watcher? It looks like Brian replied to it and quoted parts of it, but it's nowhere to be found. Did it get deleted?
Very confused....
I actually deleted it prior to Brian posting his reply to it. However Brian must have been in the process of replying when I did so, and his window retained my text. That's a risk you take when you withdraw your post, though I did hope that if Brian had seen me withdraw my post he might do likewise. Though he is under no obligation to do so. My post was up for approximately 16 minutes. I also wrote mine while Brian was posting his reply to Rob in which he cited his specific examples of what he didn't like. Once I saw that, it might have also influenced me to just refrain from involvment. Or, tried to anyway. Such is life.
As for why I deleted it; frankly I thought it might just aggravate the issue, and I didn't want to get in a personal disagreement directly with Brian (though I tried to keep my tone non-confrontational). I can't presume to know what Brian thinks or feels, other than what he tell us, but sometimes if someone feels very strongly about a subject, a third party isn't going to have much luck changing their mind without something concrete to offer.
I do think at times that Rob was being provoked (not by Brian). I really do believe that, regardless of the fact that I'm his customer and I like his product. While perhaps, as a vendor, Rob should be held to a higher standard if he hopes to sell his product, but I find myself sympathtic to him anyway.
Seriously? So we're not to let a representative of a company know about their poor customer service? Reducing this situation to "his livelihood was being attacked" is disingenuous. He's a representative of his company, and as such, needs to realize that his actions are directly responsible for his livelihood. Am I to refrain from saying "I don't like my Ford, here's the reasons why" because I'd be attacking the livelihood of Ford employees?
I'm sorry - I'm just as opinionated and emotional as the next guy, but when I'm wearing my employer-issued ID badge, my opinions and emotions are gone, replaced with those of my company and it's best interests. If my company's opinions and best interests are to damage the opportunity for sales, then more power to them. Most don't operate as such.
Seriously.
First, just to make sure we're on the same page; I don't have any issue with you holding Rob accountable for his actions. A lot of what I said earlier has more to do with previous posters & Rob's reactions to them. It is possible that someone reading this might misunderstand that I have a direct issue with you, and I don't. I have a different response to the interaction between Rob and some of the previous posters than you have, but my understanding is that you and I are not in direct conflict here.
I don't disagree with the basic validity of what you've said above. I'm suggesting that there is more than one layer to this. There is more than one perspective we can choose (or choose not to) take into account.
You're addressing and speaking of Rob purely in the context of a "role". I'm saying that Rob is not only a "role" at his company, he is also a person, a human being.
You're absolutely no way obligated to look at Rob's performance as "company spokesperson" in any other capacity than as his "role". I completely certify that his existence as a person is not your concern, interest, or problem. Perhaps for you, he failed in his role and that is all there is to it.
However, I elect.. I choose... to also view him as a person. Recognizing that there is a person on the other end of that message board post. It is my choice to mitigate his performance in the role of company spokesperson with the fact that he is a person with thoughts and feelings. I maintain that is not automatically a bad decision.
I have some practical experience in outside sales, inside sales, and law enforcement. You might have very valid real world experience as well. I have found that people make mistakes. Some people learn from their mistakes. Everyone has a bad day. Eventually I will have a bad day too, and possibly say something I regret. I should expect to be held accountable for my actions, but I can hope for some grace.
But the thing about grace is, that someone has to extend some first, if anybody hopes to receive it. Otherwise we all get held to the fire for each and every one of our many failings.
I have heard that "there can be no feelings in business". Certainly there doesn't have to be. Nevertheless, some of the most productive kinds of business is built on relationships.. which can be built up or damaged. If I can't accept my customer as a person, and they can not accept me as a person; then we stand to have a very casual and fragile relationship at best. I'm just making the point that not all business need be based upon absolute black and white success/failure.
In your example, there is a difference between telling Ford Motor Company that you don't like the quality of their product; and telling them you don't like the quality of their product, they're dishonest, and that they're insulting. You're right, Ford Motor Co. should never retaliate with unprofessional comments. Yet neither should they expect to be abused just in order to capture a sale.
Lone-Wolf Rob made a mistake, but I can elect to take all of the circumstances into account. Some of the previous posters were also out of line. He let himself get provoked by trolls.
I can't hold that against him to any severe degree. It would be too hypocritical, at least for me.
DRM is a very toxic subject. Personally I have no problems with it. It seems from the responses above that a well placed email will fix most of the "Evil" in DRM. A lot of the people who are negative about DRM really have no solution except to say pirating is a fact of life and the code should be open so get over it. I haven't really seen any solutions proposed that would be as effective as DRM and not be "Evil"
Any chance that we will see some of the other pathfinder non-ogl source material added to hero lab?
A> You're not happy that someone brought up a functionality issue with their software on a public forum - something that illustrates exactly why anti-DRM advocates are anti-DRM.My reaction had nothing to do with the fact that it was a DRM issue. I would have reacted the same to virtually any issue brought to a public forum like this. The reason I don't like it is because it usually gets at least one person with no information about the situation to chime in with unsubstantiated theories presented as fact (as happened in this thread). That results in me spending many hours to debunk the misinformation. Those are hours I would much rather spend adding features to the product, hence my dislike.
Edit: I also don't monitor forums like this one more than sporadically. So it's easy for a post on a forum like this to go unnoticed for a couple days or more. We have our own public forums that we monitor more frequently where issues like this can be aired. If a user wants to get a timely response, he's much more likely to get one on our forums than places like this. It was pure happenstance that had me check here Friday evening. That's just another reason for my dislike of customer support posts on forums like this - a reason that has nothing to do with DRM specifically.
B> Your comment to scranford was snarky and rude:
Do you have an initial clue about why the email might not have been seen or replied to?Guilty as charged. I certainly didn't catch that one.
Unfortunately, our personal experience bears out the statement. There are lots of folks out there who will happily pirate software and only buy it if they can't...C> You basically accuse a portion of your customer base as being would-be software "pirates":
But I'm certain we've gained *significantly* more customers who have bought the software because they can't readily pirate it.
Well I was going to let this die a noble death, but there is one inconsistency here. I originally posted this problem on the Hero Lab forums, and only took it to this forum after my post on the HL forums wasn't responded to in 2-3 days. Maybe I should have been less impatient, but I really didn't want to spend another weekend without being able to use my software...and to be honest...This worked while the more diplomatic methods didn't.
Any chance that we will see some of the other pathfinder non-ogl source material added to hero lab?
Which material are you specifically looking for? We're going to be adding the Bestiary material in a few weeks, as well as the new Beta classes. We'll definitely be adding support for the two major tomes from Paizo in 2010 (May/August). Other than that, we're looking to users to drive our priorities regarding what's most important to add, and we've been logging user requests on our forums. If you point out what you're seeking, I'll make sure it gets logged.
Any chance that we will see some of the other pathfinder non-ogl source material added to hero lab?Which material are you specifically looking for? We're going to be adding the Bestiary material in a few weeks, as well as the new Beta classes. We'll definitely be adding support for the two major tomes from Paizo in 2010 (May/August). Other than that, we're looking to users to drive our priorities regarding what's most important to add, and we've been logging user requests on our forums. If you point out what you're seeking, I'll make sure it gets logged.
The 2 new books and adding the beta classes will be awesome. I am looking at companion material like the Pathfinder Companion - Cheliax Empire of Devils and other companion books.
I am looking at companion material like the Pathfinder Companion - Cheliax Empire of Devils and other companion books.
Rob,
I'd like to second this. I'd like to see the Companion Books become incorporated. I realize that they're not OGL, and you'd need a license from Paizo in order to do that... However, if you speak to them it would be for the crunch. The feats, traits, and special Prestige Classes. Not much of the fluff, just what you need for a character builder.
As for pricing, I think $10-$15 for one Companion Book would would be kind of pricey, but if you bundled all of the Companion Books into a data set, that would be pretty fair.
Well I was going to let this die a noble death, but there is one inconsistency here. I originally posted this problem on the Hero Lab forums, and only took it to this forum after my post on the HL forums wasn't responded to in 2-3 days. Maybe I should have been less impatient, but I really didn't want to spend another weekend without being able to use my software...and to be honest...This worked while the more diplomatic methods didn't.
Sadly, in this particular instance, there would not have been any difference. I settled in to monitor all the various forums that night and discovered your posts in both places. Our company forums are a better venue 95+% of the time, because there are *two* of us monitoring those forums for support-related issues and one additional person for technical questions. None of us do it daily, but one of us usually checks them every day or two. In contrast, I'm the only one regularly monitoring the Paizo forums, and regularly means every few days unless there's a major issue like this one that comes up. So the odds of getting a timely response on our company forums is *significantly* higher than posting in places like this.
When you have a tiny company, everyone wears lots of different hats (i.e. is responsible for lots of different business roles). In order to get meaningful development work done, we need concentrated periods of focus. Consequently, it's not conducive to quality development for us to switch hats throughout the day - it derails us from that focused time. So we each check the forums every 2-3 days and it generally overlaps nicely, but we don't have a fixed schedule. In this instance, neither of us checked the forums for the same few days. And it cost us hugely in terms of both PR and time spent here instead of on new development. The alternative is a fixed schedule, which seriously impacts our progress in developing products. I'm not sure which is worse.
When we've polled our users about this in the past, they've overwhelmingly said they would rather we maximize development and minimize support costs/overhead, even if that means an extra day or two of waiting for a resolution. The reality is that the minority who don't share that opinion aren't shy about being vocal with their opinions on public forums like this one. And it results in a classic "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation for us.
My motivation in posting this is to ideally achieve some understanding, since many of the same issues facing us are common to numerous companies in our beloved industry. It's not easy being a tiny company that develops niche products at a low price for a demanding customer base. We're juggling lots of balls, striving to develop quality products, listening to what our users say is important, and doing the best we can. We're human, which means we're just as fallible as the next guy. And we often wear hats for business roles where we have no training, which makes us even more likely to screw up.
Would it be easier to do something else for significantly less stress and more pay? Absolutely - even in the current economy. But there is something truly gratifying about having people walk up to you at Cons just to thank you for creating a product that they love. And that's why we've continued doing this for well over a decade.
We're not some big, faceless corporation. We're just a few like-minded gamers who are trying to make an honest living by doing something we love. We'll do our best to learn from our mistakes, but you can rest assured that we'll find plenty of new mistakes to make down the road. That doesn't make us bad people - just human.
Thanks for listening....
I'd like to see the Companion Books become incorporated. I realize that they're not OGL, and you'd need a license from Paizo in order to do that...
Duly noted. Another item for my list of stuff to talk with Paizo about...
As for pricing, I think $10-$15 for one Companion Book would would be kind of pricey, but if you bundled all of the Companion Books into a data set, that would be pretty fair.
Duly noted as well. Pricing is really a function of time to enter all the material and the number of folks who would be interested in the data package (aka ROI), so that we'll need to figure out.
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I'd like to see the Companion Books become incorporated. I realize that they're not OGL, and you'd need a license from Paizo in order to do that...Duly noted. Another item for my list of stuff to talk with Paizo about...
As for pricing, I think $10-$15 for one Companion Book would would be kind of pricey, but if you bundled all of the Companion Books into a data set, that would be pretty fair.Duly noted as well. Pricing is really a function of time to enter all the material and the number of folks who would be interested in the data package (aka ROI), so that we'll need to figure out.
Something else I would like to see in Hero Lab, is the Tome of Secrets by Adamant Entertainment. Not sure how much of it is OGL or not, though.
<steps carefully through the seeming minefield>
Anyone know if any of these programs supports the Gestalt Characters option from Unearthed Arcana? It is open game material and is found in the online SRD, so there shouldn't be any issues in that regard. My group plays almost exclusively gestalt, so unfortunately any tool that doesn't support gestalt character is useless to me.
It is being added to PCGen, slowly but surely.
-- david
Papa.DRB
- but I recently purchased the Bestiary from Amazon and I was wondering if anyone knows if it will be added to PCGEN or HeroLab?
Corilius
I like PCGEN - I used it throughout 3.5 and although it has JAVA issues its still robust. I don't know anything about the HeroLab program - but I recently purchased the Bestiary from Amazon and I was wondering if anyone knows if it will be added to PCGEN or HeroLab?Apologies if this was already addressed.
It is scheduled to be added to HeroLab. I believe the process will be started in early January.
At that point, the post had explicitly shifted its focus away from the original poster and was addressing all readers in general. So it wasn't a reflection on the original poster with the problem, but a general address. Sadly, our hard numbers tell me that the majority of gamers are content to pirate software if they can.
I just read the whole thread (which the DRM issue arrived since I posted & read last) and it got me to thinking.
I wonder if the whole piracy of software doesn't stem back from the AOL D&D board days. For the majority of the time that computers have been truly useful to PnP those tools have been free to download and use. The first non-free product that I can remember was the Core Rules (which was some damn good software). So it's kinda been a entitlement feeling. Which of course isn't helped by the currently free resources like the spreadsheets & PCGen.
It is being added to PCGen, slowly but surely.
-- david
Papa.DRB- but I recently purchased the Bestiary from Amazon and I was wondering if anyone knows if it will be added to PCGEN or HeroLab?
Corilius
Eddy estimated that the Beastiary is at 2/5ths done.
Anyone know if any of these programs supports the Gestalt Characters option from Unearthed Arcana?
Hero Lab does not currently support Gestalt. It's definitely on our todo list, but very few people have actually expressed an interest in it, so we've been focusing thus far on the things that are more heavily requested. I'll add another tally to it based on this post.
I'm not sure about whether other tools support Gestalt or not...
I recently purchased the Bestiary from Amazon and I was wondering if anyone knows if it will be added to PCGEN or HeroLab?It is scheduled to be added to HeroLab. I believe the process will be started in early January.
Correct. We're expecting to have it released within Hero Lab by late January.
I wonder if the whole piracy of software doesn't stem back from the AOL D&D board days. For the majority of the time that computers have been truly useful to PnP those tools have been free to download and use. The first non-free product that I can remember was the Core Rules (which was some damn good software). So it's kinda been a entitlement feeling. Which of course isn't helped by the currently free resources like the spreadsheets & PCGen.
Software piracy on personal computers dates back to the 70s. I had friends who were pirating games on the old Apple 2e and the Trash-80s (yes, I'm old). Once the IBM PC came out in 81, followed by all the clones, games were huge and all sorts of steps were taken to encode floppy disks with special sectors to prevent piracy. Then there were commercial tools like CopyIIPC that were released specifically to let folks pirate other software under the claim that users should be able to make a legal "backup". Yeah, sure - a "backup" for each of my friends. <sigh>
Software piracy was already rampant in the very early days of "Always Off Line". While it's quite possible that the early freeware tools contributed to the sense of entitlement, I think it's more the psychology of "what can I get away with?". I look at my nephews and their friends today (ages 10-14). Left to their own devices, they would have no problem pirating anything they could get their hands on, even when they have the money to buy stuff. It's the egocentrism of youth coupled with the sense of empowerment felt by getting away with something. Left unchecked, the basic attitude unfortunately persists into adulthood for lots of folks. They know it's wrong, but there's no one to stop them. More importantly, there's a cultural attitude that it's "normal" to do it, so there's no sense of societal/peer pressure to curtail it.
Add to this the fact that a large number of gamers are younger and have limited disposable income, and you get huge numbers of pirates among gamers.
A depressing reality....
Anyone know if any of these programs supports the Gestalt Characters option from Unearthed Arcana?Hero Lab does not currently support Gestalt. It's definitely on our todo list, but very few people have actually expressed an interest in it, so we've been focusing thus far on the things that are more heavily requested. I'll add another tally to it based on this post.
I'm not sure about whether other tools support Gestalt or not...
I can add that PCGen has also looked at it (and Tir occasionally keeps taking a stab at it), but we currently don't support it. This is mainly a data/code issue. Because you essentially have to take the current data for the classes, break EVERYTHING down into separate isolated abilities, and then redesign how the classes are generated. Which quite frankly would be easier to do by hand because the options literally explode once you get past the core SRD. Plus we don't have that many people ask for it. Although with the new Ability Object code it would be easier than it had in the past.
Yeah, I figured as much. Thanks anyway :) I'll just have to continue making my characters by hand. It's good practice anyway.
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Hi All -
Man, I've read 141 posts. All I really wanted to know is if I buy HL, under the Pathfinder Licence can I still create a PC class for my Synad Erudite Psionicst and PrC Legendary Captain - both 3.5 non-OGL. I haven't seen this answer. Can I do this in the standard Pathfinder application (I know they aren't PF classes, but I'm 'creating them' as new classes), or do I need to buy the add-on for editing? Next, as I understand it, if I can't add the Synad Psionicst because their 3.5 can I add them if I end up buying the 3.5 data set? We're a normal gaming table - we are playing Pathfinder for rules and spells - like grapple and monks and wizards and familiars but if someone wants to play a Samurai or like my Erudite, we're free to do so. AEG's book of feats and the collected Dragon Magazine feats and so many other options out there that aren't OGL (or are but might not be in the data set) - what happens to them? How do I add them? Can I a 3.5 feat like Blooded but convert it to Pathfinder by making it +2 Perception instead of Spot (or for us, we've also included Trailblazer for their skills - which keeps Search which is a Wis skill instead of also merging it to Perception). Can I keep my Pathfinder Fighter, but also have a ruleset that allows me to also utilize two good saves and one poor save? Another thing we've implemented from Trailblazer. So at 11th level, I have basically the cleric saves from Pathfinder (in any order) no matter how many classes I have (Goldfrapp the Nekkid Taldoran Trebuchet, my PFS character is a Rogue 3, Fighter 1, Bard 2, Druid 1 and saves are tough to manage - esp. as I'll be adding at least one more class to that mix of zanny-ness).
What about the Pathfinder Tome of Secrets book by Adamant Games? Or some of their other works. How much would this dataset cost me? Or is it something that I and other users can input and share? Are these things that I can input with the base model or do I need a special add-on to do so? How about the Playtest versions of the APG classes - and as they've made a few changes to those already via their forum posts - can these be implemented and shared?
Can HL affect these different rule sets without overlapping them? I am one of the few that loved e-Tools because I could easily copy all the datasets and create a new set make my modifications (with the fan created e-Tools wizard).
Now that those are what I originally came here for, I do have to chime in on the whole small business vs the world aspect. I've been a small business owner - then I went to college got 5 degrees and still can't find work. I have degree's in human communication, public relations and marketing. But I have focused on non-profit organizations and offering their services to the public on a free basis to help - and as such with the economy in Vegas as bad as it is, not many companies are bringing someone in that wants to give away their product!
I too did see Lonewolf-rob's comments not quite in some of the light that he would want from a potential client. However, I have found that companies really do not care about customer service. Yes in class they always teach you that it's harder to get new customers than it is retain the ones that you have. However have you even eaten at an IHOP? Of course you have. Sometimes its good, sometimes its decent and 50% of the time its tolerable, has dirty knives and why would you ever order the steak from IHOP? Even though it's not always the best service, they're cheap and always around. Windows isn't the best OS but its under the same circumstances. With HeroLab's - the competition is what helps it with potential clients. The owner may be a little off-putting (and I'm not saying that he is, just in one case which I'm examining here), however his competition is PC Gen which is on a massive cross platform via Java, has been around for a long time and is free. It also has a ton of datasets from previous editions and sources that I might want to use. The down sides of it are that its Java and slow and the most recent offerings seem to be slow but because of its free nature. Besides as a free object, we know what we're getting. Its other competition is RPGXplorer - but as less than a handful of people have responded here with usage and positive notice, it doesn't seem to be in the same realm of usability or even support (considering that a few of the free character sheet people have more posts than RPGX does here on this forum). Thus DRM and spokesperson aside, it seems that HeroLab is really the main choice. This in no way to say that any actions good or bad are what I'm referencing - I'm just pointing out that poor customer service is truly the norm and not the exception despite every conglomeration stating that their goal is Five Star Service. And as someone that does Secret Shopping - boy don't I know it. So the stated goal will always be Five Star Service, never stated otherwise publicly and very often not even privately - but it is an unknown statement that can be seen in most business models - including non-profit and for profit donations.
So please don't read that I'm not interested in the product or that I don't believe that Rob is attempting Five Star Service (he is attempting, within a business model and reason - because if he was attempting for a full Five Star Service he'd leave the DRM issue alone and remove it, but as that isn't an option for him as part of his business model, he cannot maintain Five Star Service - but what he can do is accept that part of the problem and provide Four point Nine Star Service to the rest of his client base).
And my first potion of my post in the most important to me. Can it do the things that I want? How many add-on's do I need to purchase to get it to do what I want. I have an account at the WolfLair Web site - and have previously asked these questions but answers weren't sufficient - but then again it was right around PF launch and GenCon.
Be Well. Be Well Created.
Theocrat Issak
All I really wanted to know is if I buy HL, under the Pathfinder Licence can I still create a PC class for my Synad Erudite Psionicst and PrC Legendary Captain - both 3.5 non-OGL. I haven't seen this answer. Can I do this in the standard Pathfinder application (I know they aren't PF classes, but I'm 'creating them' as new classes), or do I need to buy the add-on for editing?
I don't know any details about those classes, so it's 99.9% likely that you *can* create them within Hero Lab. The only exception is if the classes do something really weird and unexpected.
You can add your own custom classes with only the Pathfinder data files option. There is *no* need for the separate Authoring Kit, which is intended for someone who wants to create completely new data files for a currently unsupported game system.
Hero Lab includes an integrated Editor. The Editor allows you to create new things of any standard type, ranging from feats and spells to entire classes. The documentation includes tutorials on how to do this. There are also users adding content from a variety of non-core sources and sharing their data files. Once one person adds the content, it's easy to share that content, so all members in a gaming group only need a single person to learn how to use the Editor.
AEG's book of feats and the collected Dragon Magazine feats and so many other options out there that aren't OGL (or are but might not be in the data set) - what happens to them? How do I add them? Can I a 3.5 feat like Blooded but convert it to Pathfinder by making it +2 Perception instead of Spot (or for us, we've also included Trailblazer for their skills - which keeps Search which is a Wis skill instead of also merging it to Perception).
The above content can be readily added. Some of that material has already been added by users. One of them is maintaining a repository of the content that has been created for sharing. You can find the details and contact them through our support forums.
Can I keep my Pathfinder Fighter, but also have a ruleset that allows me to also utilize two good saves and one poor save?
Yes. If I'm understanding you correctly, you would create a new Fighter class as a copy of the existing class. Then you would change the classification of one of the saves. You could also designate this new class as a replacement for the core Fighter class if you wanted - or you could keep it separate.
What about the Pathfinder Tome of Secrets book by Adamant Games? Or some of their other works. How much would this dataset cost me? Or is it something that I and other users can input and share?
We don't currently have a license with any 3rd party Pathfinder publishers. If there is enough demand for something, we could probably work out a license with them. Alternately, this content can be added using the integrated Editor and shared.
Are these things that I can input with the base model or do I need a special add-on to do so?
No special add-on is needed. The tools are included and can be fully experimented with prior to purchase. Just install Hero Lab and run it in demo mode.
How about the Playtest versions of the APG classes - and as they've made a few changes to those already via their forum posts - can these be implemented and shared?
We've already announced that the playtest classes would be made available in January. As Paizo tweaks them, we'll do our best to keep tweaking the data files to stay in sync. If users want to have access to that material *now*, they can also implement it themselves using the Editor.
Can HL affect these different rule sets without overlapping them? I am one of the few that loved e-Tools because I could easily copy all the datasets and create a new set make my modifications (with the fan created e-Tools wizard).
I don't understand what you mean by this. It sounds like you want to be able to maintain multiple different sets of Pathfinder data files, each with it's own unique custom content added. If so, Hero Lab can fully support it. You can copy a game system and have multiple instances of it, each with its own name. Then you can add custom content to one without adding it to others. You can also share custom content across multiple instances. It's also possible to define custom "sources", which allow all the content to be used together and have portions separately enabled/disabled for each character.
If you meant something different with your question, please clarify and I'll do my best to get you an answer.
I too did see Lonewolf-rob's comments not quite in some of the light that he would want from a potential client. However, I have found that companies really do not care about customer service.
Everyone's definition of what constitutes great customer service is different. It's all a function of an individual's expectations. In the past few weeks, we've had multiple people posting on our support forums that our customer service is the best they've ever experienced. Here on this forum, I've been hammered (not without cause, mind you).
Providing 5-star customer service is simply not possible for a tiny company like us, unless we wanted to significantly increase our prices to finance that service. Our customers have emphatically said they'd prefer we keep the prices down and endure slower response times, so that's what we've done. It's all about finding a balance that works for each business. Fast food joints aren't targeting the same clientele as posh restaurants, and nobody expects 5-star service at a fast food joint. There is a place for both to be successful businesses.
On the whole, we've garnered a large and loyal customer base over a span of 11 years (nearly 100,000 users). Our business model is almost completely dependent on word-of-mouth advertising, which means that the majority of our users are more than satisfied with our product quality and customer service. We'll never be able to make everyone happy, but we seem to be making the majority of folks happy, and that has translated to a successful business for us.
Using the analogy you started, I maintain that we're neither an IHOP nor a posh restaurant, and we're not trying to be either of those. We're really more like a Chili's or a Cheesecake Factory - good quality and reasonable service for a moderate price. :-)
I realize I'm coming in to this way late, but to address the original question:
I use PCGen - my group is composed of users of various OS's, and we use the product that enables us all to interact universally - and only PCGen allows that. Herolab looks great, but it's Windows Only, and I (and the other GM's) refuse to relegate the task of Player Character book-keeping to the two guys in the group that use Windows. In an effort to enable every Player to keep their own books, we use the program that "wants our money the most" - and that, right now, is PCGen.
In our experience with PCGen we've found that we have to edit some .lst files to get around the memory hog tendencies that loading too many sources results in. But, simply doubling the amount of memory it looks for resolves nearly all load time issues, so that's quite all right.
My biggest issue with PCGen is that it hasn't handled Armor Stacking properly for a while. I'm not on the Yahoo or Sourceforge groups, so I can't honestly say if that's been addressed or will be addressed, but I've dug around in the appropriate .lst files for days on end, trying to figure out why my Wizard's Ring (Deflection), Amulet (Natural Armor), Cape (Luck) and Dex (Dex) aren't stacking properly (I get the Ring and the Amulet and Dex, but the Cape is right out)... and I'm darned if I can figure out what's going on...
But if that's my biggest gripe, then it's not really much of a gripe at all, is it?
I have looked at HeroLab and like what I see, and would love to support it, but as it is a single platform application, I can't justify suggesting it to my group as a tool at this time.
<snip> My biggest issue with PCGen is that it hasn't handled Armor Stacking properly for a while. I'm not on the Yahoo or Sourceforge groups, so I can't honestly say if that's been addressed or will be addressed, but I've dug around in the appropriate .lst files for days on end, trying to figure out why my Wizard's Ring (Deflection), Amulet (Natural Armor), Cape (Luck) and Dex (Dex) aren't stacking properly (I get the Ring and the Amulet and Dex, but the Cape is right out)... and I'm darned if I can figure out what's going on...
But if that's my biggest gripe, then it's not really much of a gripe at all, is it?
<snip>
Hmm, nobody has reported on that issue, and the Bonus (Luck) grants a AC bonus of Luck, so it should be stacking.
What's the steps you take to make the items, or if they are items you have coded post the snippit of code for your items.
Also, what PCGen version, OS platform, gamemode and data sets are using? Hmm, we just got our own website and email boxes maybe I'll suggest we have a bugs email setup that will post to the yahoo group.
<snip> My biggest issue with PCGen is that it hasn't handled Armor Stacking properly for a while. I'm not on the Yahoo or Sourceforge groups, so I can't honestly say if that's been addressed or will be addressed, but I've dug around in the appropriate .lst files for days on end, trying to figure out why my Wizard's Ring (Deflection), Amulet (Natural Armor), Cape (Luck) and Dex (Dex) aren't stacking properly (I get the Ring and the Amulet and Dex, but the Cape is right out)... and I'm darned if I can figure out what's going on...
But if that's my biggest gripe, then it's not really much of a gripe at all, is it?
<snip>Hmm, nobody has reported on that issue, and the Bonus (Luck) grants a AC bonus of Luck, so it should be stacking.
What's the steps you take to make the items, or if they are items you have coded post the snippit of code for your items.
Also, what PCGen version, OS platform, gamemode and data sets are using? Hmm, we just got our own website and email boxes maybe I'll suggest we have a bugs email setup that will post to the yahoo group.
This'll have to wait for a day or two. I've got family running around my home and thus have no ability to take more than a couple of minutes of interweb time during the day.
I can answer part of this right now, though.
PCGen 5.16.1
Mac OS X Snow Leopard
The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game -> Standard Game Mode
Data Sets are only the Pathfinder RPG files
I'll go digging around in the .lst's later when I have more time.
Thanks!
Okay, here's what I'm seeing Jem.
Loading the Pathfinder Core Rulebook dataset (unless your using the beta set)
Make a TN fighter with all 10 stats.
Go to Inv screen, buy Amulet of Natural Armor +1, Ring of Protection +1
Right click Cape and customize>Add |AC Bonus (Luck)> Select +1 bonus
Go to Equipping tab, Equip one item at a time, check the character tab. I'm seeing a AC of 13 (it's not showing the deflection bonus in the calc but it's there)
NEW1 CR 1/2
Male Human Fighter 1
TN Medium humanoid (human)
Init +0; Senses Perception +0,
DEFENSE
AC 13, touch 12, flat-footed 13
( +1 natural, +1 misc )
hp 10 (1d10)
Fort +2, Ref +0, Will +0
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
STATISTICS
Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10
Base Atk +1; Combat Manuever Bonus +1
Feats Armor Proficiency, Heavy, Armor Proficiency, Light, Armor Proficiency, Medium, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Shield Proficiency, Simple Weapon Proficiency, Tower Shield Proficiency
Skills
Languages Common
Possessions amulet of natural armor +1; cape ( ac bonus (luck) (+1)); ring of protection +1;
SPECIAL ABILITIES
PCGVERSION:2.0
# System Information
CAMPAIGN:Paizo - Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook
VERSION:5.16.1
ROLLMETHOD:0|EXPRESSION:0
PURCHASEPOINTS:N
POOLPOINTS:0
POOLPOINTSAVAIL:-1
GAMEMODE:Pathfinder_RPG
TABLABEL:0
AUTOSPELLS:Y
USEHIGHERKNOWN:N
USEHIGHERPREPPED:N
LOADCOMPANIONS:N
USETEMPMODS:Y
AUTOSORTGEAR:Y
SKILLSOUTPUTORDER:0
IGNORECOST:Y
ALLOWDEBT:N
AUTORESIZEGEAR:N
# Character Bio
CHARACTERNAME:New1
TABNAME:
PLAYERNAME:
HEIGHT:63
WEIGHT:145
AGE:16
GENDER:Male
HANDED:Right
SKINCOLOR:
EYECOLOR:
HAIRCOLOR:
HAIRSTYLE:
LOCATION:
CITY:
BIRTHDAY:
BIRTHPLACE:
PERSONALITYTRAIT1:
PERSONALITYTRAIT2:
SPEECHPATTERN:
PHOBIAS:
INTERESTS:
CATCHPHRASE:
PORTRAIT:
# Character Attributes
STAT:STR|SCORE:10
STAT:DEX|SCORE:10
STAT:CON|SCORE:10
STAT:INT|SCORE:10
STAT:WIS|SCORE:10
STAT:CHA|SCORE:10
ALIGN:TN
RACE:Human
# Character Class(es)
CLASS:Fighter|SUBCLASS:None|LEVEL:1|SKILLPOOL:3
CLASSABILITIESLEVEL:Fighter=1|HITPOINTS:10|SKILLSGAINED:3|SKILLSREMAINING:3
# Character Experience
EXPERIENCE:0
# Character Templates
# Character Region
# Character Skills
SKILL:Acrobatics|OUTPUTORDER:1|
SKILL:Appraise|OUTPUTORDER:2|
SKILL:Bluff|OUTPUTORDER:3|
SKILL:Climb|OUTPUTORDER:4|
SKILL:Craft (Untrained)|OUTPUTORDER:5|
SKILL:Diplomacy|OUTPUTORDER:6|
SKILL:Disguise|OUTPUTORDER:7|
SKILL:Escape Artist|OUTPUTORDER:8|
SKILL:Fly|OUTPUTORDER:9|
SKILL:Heal|OUTPUTORDER:10|
SKILL:Intimidate|OUTPUTORDER:11|
SKILL:Perception|OUTPUTORDER:12|
SKILL:Perform (Untrained)|OUTPUTORDER:13|
SKILL:Ride|OUTPUTORDER:14|
SKILL:Sense Motive|OUTPUTORDER:15|
SKILL:Stealth|OUTPUTORDER:16|
SKILL:Survival|OUTPUTORDER:17|
SKILL:Swim|OUTPUTORDER:18|
# Character Languages
LANGUAGE:Common
# Character Feats
FEATPOOL:0.0
# Character Abilities
USERPOOL:FEAT|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Internal|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Special Ability|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Ability Bonus|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Favored Class|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Favored Class Bonus|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Obsessive Bonus|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Adaptability Bonus Feat|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Fighter Bonus Feat|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Monk Bonus Feat|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Combat Trick Feat|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Weapon Training|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Aberrant Bloodline Feat|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Abyssal Bloodline Feat|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Arcane Bloodline Feat|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Celestial Bloodline Feat|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Destined Bloodline Feat|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Draconic Bloodline Feat|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Elemental Bloodline Feat|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Fey Bloodline Feat|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Infernal Bloodline Feat|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Undead Bloodline Feat|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Ranger Bonus Feat|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Wizard Bonus Feat|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Rage Power|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Versatile Performance|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Channel Energy|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Weapon Training I|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Weapon Training II|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Weapon Training III|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Weapon Training IV|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Mercy|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Divine Bond|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Favored Enemy|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Favored Enemy Bonus|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Favored Terrain|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Favored Terrain Bonus|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Combat Style|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Hunter's Bond|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Rogue Talent|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Sorcerer Bloodline|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Arcane Bond|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Arcane Opposition School|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Expert Class Skills|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Nature Bond|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Druid Domain|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Weapon Mastery|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Necromancer Channeling|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Knowledge Class Skill|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Arcane Bloodline School Power|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Animal Trick|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Companion Level Increase Choice|POOLPOINTS:0.0
USERPOOL:Companion Stat Increase|POOLPOINTS:0.0
# Character Weapon proficiencies
WEAPONPROF:[WEAPON:Axe (Throwing)|WEAPON:Battleaxe|WEAPON:Blowgun|WEAPON:Club|WEAPON:Crossbow (Heavy)|WEAPON:Crossbow (Light)|WEAPON:Dagger|WEAPON:Dagger (Punching)|WEAPON:Dart|WEAPON:Falchion]
WEAPONPROF:[WEAPON:Flail|WEAPON:Flail (Heavy)|WEAPON:Gauntlet|WEAPON:Gauntlet (Spiked)|WEAPON:Glaive|WEAPON:Greataxe|WEAPON:Greatclub|WEAPON:Greatsword|WEAPON:Guisarme|WEAPON:Halberd]
WEAPONPROF:[WEAPON:Hammer (Light)|WEAPON:Handaxe|WEAPON:Javelin|WEAPON:Kukri|WEAPON:Lance|WEAPON:Longbow|WEAPON:Longspear|WEAPON:Longsword|WEAPON:Mace (Heavy)|WEAPON:Mace (Light)]
WEAPONPROF:[WEAPON:Morningstar|WEAPON:Pick (Heavy)|WEAPON:Pick (Light)|WEAPON:Quarterstaff|WEAPON:Ranseur|WEAPON:Rapier|WEAPON:Rock|WEAPON:Sap|WEAPON:Scimitar|WEAPON:Scythe]
WEAPONPROF:[WEAPON:Shieldbash (Heavy)|WEAPON:Shieldbash (Light)|WEAPON:Shortbow|WEAPON:Shortspear|WEAPON:Sickle|WEAPON:Sling|WEAPON:Spear|WEAPON:Spells (Ray)|WEAPON:Spells (Touch)|WEAPON:Spiked Armor]
WEAPONPROF:[WEAPON:Starknife|WEAPON:Sword (Bastard)|WEAPON:Sword (Short)|WEAPON:Trident|WEAPON:Unarmed Strike|WEAPON:Waraxe (Dwarven)|WEAPON:Warhammer]
# Character Equipment
MONEY:0
EQUIPNAME:Cape ( AC Bonus (Luck) (+1))|OUTPUTORDER:2|COST:2500.0|WT:0.0|QUANTITY:1.0|CUSTOMIZATION:[BASEITEM:Cape|DATA:NAME=Cape ( AC Bonus (Luck) (+1))$EQMOD=BNS_AC_LUCK&pipe;+1]
EQUIPNAME:Amulet of Natural Armor +1|OUTPUTORDER:1|COST:2000|WT:0.02|QUANTITY:1.0
EQUIPNAME:Ring of Protection +1|OUTPUTORDER:3|COST:2000|WT:0.0|QUANTITY:1.0
EQUIPSET:Default Set|ID:0.1|USETEMPMODS:Y
EQUIPSET:Neck|ID:0.1.1|VALUE:Amulet of Natural Armor +1|QUANTITY:1.0|USETEMPMODS:Y
EQUIPSET:Ring|ID:0.1.2|VALUE:Ring of Protection +1|QUANTITY:1.0|USETEMPMODS:Y
EQUIPSET:Shoulders|ID:0.1.3|VALUE:Cape ( AC Bonus (Luck) (+1))|QUANTITY:1.0|USETEMPMODS:Y
CALCEQUIPSET:0.1
# Temporary Bonuses
# EquipSet Temp Bonuses
# Character Deity/Domain
# Character Spells Information
# Character Description/Bio/History
CHARACTERBIO:
CHARACTERDESC:
CHARACTERCOMP:
CHARACTERASSET:
CHARACTERMAGIC:
CHARACTERDMNOTES:
# Kits
# Character Master/Follower
# Character Notes Tab
# Age Set Selections
AGESET:1:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0
If you want to see the example, copy the character file into a New1.pcg file where you normally store your characters.
Okay, here's what I'm seeing Jem.
Loading the Pathfinder Core Rulebook dataset (unless your using the beta set)
Make a TN fighter with all 10 stats.
Go to Inv screen, buy Amulet of Natural Armor +1, Ring of Protection +1
Right click Cape and customize>Add |AC Bonus (Luck)> Select +1 bonusGo to Equipping tab, Equip one item at a time, check the character tab. I'm seeing a AC of 13 (it's not showing the deflection bonus in the calc but it's there)
I think I see where part of the issue is. For whatever reason, I don't get an option for "AC Bonus (Luck)" when customizing an item.
My workflow is thus:
Select Cape -> Customize -> Window Opens displaying:
Base Item: Cape
New Item: Cape
Pane 1 Items:
Q | Name | Special Properties
Y | Add Type |
Y | Spell Effect (50 Charges / Spell Trigger)
Spacer Bar Items (subdued):
Add
Remove
Pane 2 Items:
Nil
-> Select Add Type
-> Click "Add"
-> Select Desired TYPE(s) (Add Type) window opens, displaying:
AUTO_GEN
Accessories
Adamantine
Alchemical
Ammunition
Amulet
Arcane
Armor
Arrow
...
Writing
No mention of AC Bonus, and nothing mentioned with "Luck" anywhere.
Doing what I did last time, however, I went ahead and made the cape, using the Armor modifier, figuring I could just go in and replace the bonuses with Luck at a later time. Selecting Armor gives me +1 - +5 (Enhancement to Armor) as options, as well as several different types of materials, but no Luck bonus.
So, I did what I did last time, and as I said, made the cape.
However, before doing this, I did a copy of the output of the cape from the Inventory screen:
Type: Cape. Custom Proficient: N Properties: COMBAT|AC|1|TYPE=ARMOR.REPLACE, ITEMCOST|TYPE.ARMOR|1000*PLUSTOTAL*PLUSTOTAL, ITEMCOST|TYPE.ARMOR|150|!PRETYPE:1,EQMODTYPE=MASTERWORKQUALITY|(Cape) Wt: 0 lbs. AC Check: 0 Armor Class Bonus: 1 Arcane Failure: 0 Size: M Qualities: Source: Custom - PFCR
Note that it's being generated with an Armor and not a Luck bonus.
I've checked to make sure my data set for Pathfinder is up to date, and it is. I'm using the most recent version from the PCGen files, as are all of my fellow players. I haven't checked with the Windows or Linux users, but the guys in the group who use OS X (myself included), do not have the ability to generate an item with a Luck Bonus. I can't imagine what this would be caused by, seeing as how the application is Java and should be identical between platforms.
On the plus side, Test Fighter, here, has an AC of 13, displayed as +1 from Natural, +1 from Armor, and nothing from any other source. So the MISC modifiers aren't displaying, but they are being calculated.
Thanks much for any insight!