The biggest request I'd have would be for alternate/improved high-level rules.
In 3.0 we had the Epic Level Handbook, which by default formed the epic rules for 3.5 as well. However, there seems to be a large consensus that these rules don't work so well.
What I would suggest is that instead of rehashing the ELH, Paizo instead provide alternate/optional rules that revamp high-level play.
Why?
- Adventure paths typically stop around level 15 or 16 due to the diminishing return-on-investment of high-level adventures. This appears to be the result of high-level play being difficult for many DMs and authors to manage.
- No one wants to buy or write a PfRPG 2nd Ed for many years. By necessity then, to keep 3.5 alive, PfRPG had to stick pretty close to what already existed in the OGL. However, a new set of alternate rules that picks up at higher levels could strike out with some of the bolder ideas that Jason and folks on the boards had to improve the game.
- A high-level system absolutely has to begin during the current 1-20 progression rather than at level 21, because...
- When an adventure path runs out at level 15/16, most DMs who have difficulty running high level play are not going to just struggle along for 5+ levels until the characters hit level 21.
- The struggles of those DMs is increased by the narrow range of choices of high-level adventures. This means that presently, DMs wishing to take their groups to the current high/epic level rules have to do a lot of work on their own — work they may already be lacking the confidence to pull off.
So please, whether it begins at 10th level, 12th, or 16th, let's not wait until Pathfinder 2nd Edition to address the "performance issues" we encounter in high-level play. If not for the Advanced Player's Guide, then perhaps for another rulebook not long after...
This isn't so much a request since they already mentioned it at GenCon, but more a plea that they stick with it: alternate arcane schools for wizards. I would love to see a system where wizards weren't so intrinsically linked to the eight D&D schools of magic.
I would also like to see a version of the Arcana Unearthed/Evolved spellcasting system make it into the final book.
Jeremy Puckett
Ditto to both. While I'm fond of the 8-classic D&D schools, I'd like to see others - or at least ways of reorganizing the existing spells into different schools (Dream magic, Blood Magic, Elemental - Air, Fire, Earth, Water magic, etc.)
Also, I've been revisiting my AE & Spell Treasury books of late. Great stuff. I really like how the Spell Templates modify the standard spells. Stuff like this would be terrific.
Also, while I'm not a fan of spell points, I'm not a fan of spell slots either. I understand why they were kept, but I'd love to see options where casters have to roll to cast spells - either to hit a target number based on the level of the spell or something along those lines.
Other wish-list items:
Alternate class abilities. The more differenitation offered within the core classes, the better. I love D20 Modern Talent Trees and while I'm not advocating thier inclusion in Pathfinder, alternate class abilities achieve effectively the same result.
Optional combat rules:
Armor as DR
Defense Bonuses per class vs. just standard AC
Combat stunts (e.g. called shots, IH-style combat manuevers)
Non-standard rules expansions:
Rules for running/operating a business (with examples) that actually make the type of business matter. Rules for guild operation, rising through the ranks, and eventually running a guild.
Rules for ruling/governing a village/town/city/nation.
Please, please, please, can we have a proper social conflict resolution system included in this book.
This would be great also.
Thinks I would be interested in:
New Sorcerer Bloodlines: Shadow (something like the FR shadow adept prestige class, but obviously without any link to Shar), Wild (something like the Wild Mage of AD&D Tome of Magic).
New Classes. Ninja (something flavor-wise like the monk, but eventually gain access to illusion and/or conjuration spells or powers), knight (a lawful d12 tank), something like the hexblade (a fighter with arcane training, the same as the paladin is a fighter with divine training, but with chaotic or evil alignment requirements) and something like the artificer (a blacksmith able to create magical objects and effects even tough he is has neither arcane nor divine training).
Racial Substitution levels. 'nuff said.
An alternate system where hit points are more like fatigue points and strength represents the real hit points. Monte Cooks grazes this on his book of experimental might,
As I said before, an alternate spell system where casting spells are more akin to skill checks (so the diference betwen a ritual and a swift spell is simply the DC required to cast it, the same idea behind epic spells).
|
Ditto to both. While I'm fond of the 8-classic D&D schools, I'd like to see others - or at least ways of reorganizing the existing spells into different schools (Dream magic, Blood Magic, Elemental - Air, Fire, Earth, Water magic, etc.)
It just occurred to me that the four humors of medieval medicine would make a great model for a new set of wizard schools, or for a subset of abilities to the upcoming alchemist class. (Honestly, I'd model alchemy class abilities along the noble and base metals of the transmuter's art myself, but the four humors would make an interesting alternate - or simultaneous? - model.)
Jeremy Puckett
I also vote for the arcane schools of elemental air, earth, fire and water. One of my favorite 2e characters was a fire elemetalist out of the Tome of Magic.
I also vote for the arcane schools of elemental air, earth, fire and water. One of my favorite 2e characters was a fire elemetalist out of the Tome of Magic.
I would love for the unnamed 6th class to be a dedicated Elementalist, to go along w/ a dedicated Summoner. I know a wizard/sorcerer can emulate these things, but I want the class built from the ground up...
|
Ditto to both. While I'm fond of the 8-classic D&D schools, I'd like to see others - or at least ways of reorganizing the existing spells into different schools (Dream magic, Blood Magic, Elemental - Air, Fire, Earth, Water magic, etc.)
Man, this would be phenomenal. Long ago, I played an elementalist wizard in 2nd ed ad&d and it was the most fun I had playing a wizard. My friend who I game with regularly also loves the concept of a blood mage. Here are some "schools" I would love to see for the wizard.
Wizard Focus - You power these as if it were a Universalist Mage
8th lv - mage can take damage to cast spells already cast for the day.
This could also be used as a better variant for the sorcerer.
|
Ditto to both. While I'm fond of the 8-classic D&D schools, I'd like to see others - or at least ways of reorganizing the existing spells into different schools (Dream magic, Blood Magic, Elemental - Air, Fire, Earth, Water magic, etc.)Man, this would be phenomenal. Long ago, I played an elementalist wizard in 2nd ed ad&d and it was the most fun I had playing a wizard. My friend who I game with regularly also loves the concept of a blood mage. Here are some "schools" I would love to see for the wizard.
Wizard Focus - You power these as if it were a Universalist Mage
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
to have a decent elementalist they really need to increase the number of spells that would be appropriate.
to have a decent elementalist they really need to increase the number of spells that would be appropriate.
Ditto to both. While I'm fond of the 8-classic D&D schools, I'd like to see others - or at least ways of reorganizing the existing spells into different schools (Dream magic, Blood Magic, Elemental - Air, Fire, Earth, Water magic, etc.)Man, this would be phenomenal. Long ago, I played an elementalist wizard in 2nd ed ad&d and it was the most fun I had playing a wizard. My friend who I game with regularly also loves the concept of a blood mage. Here are some "schools" I would love to see for the wizard.
Wizard Focus - You power these as if it were a Universalist Mage
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
Actually, I think a sorcerer elementalist would be easy.
Feat : Elementalist
Prereq : Sorcerer Elemental Bloodline
Benefit : The sorcerer with this feat gains +1 CL with all spells that deal with the type of element that is in your bloodline.
I guess the most important thing I would like to see included are all the Feats, Traits, alternate skill uses (if any), etc. from the Pathfinder series products to date. If needed, update them to Pathfinder RPG standards and errata them as well. One of the best selling points about the Pathfinder Core Rulebook is the completeness of it.
-Swiftbrook
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
I also vote for the arcane schools of elemental air, earth, fire and water. One of my favorite 2e characters was a fire elemetalist out of the Tome of Magic.
Everyone always forgets the Heart mage.
Alright, I know this probably doesn't belong in a book titled (insert anything) Player's Guide, but something I would REALLY like to see somebody produce, is an alternate wealth system.
A system where prices scale linearly, and where high level characters don't require this absurd amount of monetary value that makes no logical sense.
Seriously, who would pay a whole ship-full of gold for a single +10 total value sword?
It just doesn't make sense and feels awkward. I understand Pathfinder had to stick close to the OGL content for marketing reasons, but as an alternate option it would be really nice to have a more realistic economy, where a +2 value sword costs twice as much as a +1, and a +3 value sword costs three times as much, etc.
(Also, this helps to keep the party on a level of reasonable wealth where they aren't, for reasons beyond all logic or understanding, more wealthy than some countries.)
Actually, this could work out in a Player's Guide. Since I run a very, very slow exp advancement game, the accumulated wealth issue is especially pronounced for me. I've taken 2 approaches to offset the financial tide:
1) Tithing; whether to churches of your elected deity, or to rulers of your home country, or even to guild masters;
2) Training; I have a lot of skills that can be increased through time & training, which solves 2 problems for me: too much cash available, and too few skill points available for most classes (though PFRPG has helped this somewhat w/ skill consolidations). I even allow training for attribute increases (what could be more realistic, actually), w/in limits.
These could be optional suggestions for players worried about too much wealth (stop laughing), and the training options would be great for further customizing their characters but w/out adding too much power to them. Another benefit of raising attributes through training is that helps me stave off the need to look like the magic item Xmas tree.
I'd like to also vote for customization options. Want to give a rogue favored enemy? Some suggestions regarding roughly equal abilities could be really handy. Trapfinding as a feat? Sure. Divine barbarian who has been blessed with channeling energy? Just show me what barbarian abilities he should sacrifice for that.
Alternate class abilities are always a good thing to have laying around.
I'm not a great fan of racial substitution levels though as they tend to shoe-horn too much.
I would like to see:
-Alternative class features for all core classes including the new ones in this book
-New feats and traits
-Expanded uses for skills
-New spells
-Updates on some of the OGL material from UA (espescially the alternative classes)
-Variants on the existing races (Sea elves, Hill dwarves, Grey elves etc.)
-New mundane equipment
-Expanded rules for alchemy
-New prestige classes (preferably some more generic ones rather than world specific)
-Some kind of ritual casting system allowing for several spellcasters to combine their efforts for greater effects
-Some kind of command system which allows a commander (perhaps a line of command feats with the leadership feat as a requirement) to grant temporary uses of combat feats to followers and cohorts
-An alternative to the cleric as a healer
-Feats which allows for expanded or improved uses of skills perhaps with skill focus as a requirement
-And probably lots more which I can't think of right now
Okay, I got this great idea here to perhaps make the generalist wizard a bit more powerful to bring them to par with the specialists.
This is simple, give them the option to get the Arch Mage PrC abilities in place of their meta magic abilities, if they want.
This gives them abilities that make good representation in mastery of all spells.
So who here is with me?
Alright, I know this probably doesn't belong in a book titled (insert anything) Player's Guide, but something I would REALLY like to see somebody produce, is an alternate wealth system.
A system where prices scale linearly, and where high level characters don't require this absurd amount of monetary value that makes no logical sense.
While I would love to see this, I fear it's probably in "snowball's chance" territory. The ridiculous D&D monetary system, unfortunately, is either loved by those who want to have more money than countries or typically deemed not worth the trouble by it's detractors. I would love to see a workable, believable revised economic system - with two caveats.
1) It would have to reword the equipment pricing from the ground up. For example, long swords should be significantly more expensive than say, a hand-axe. Historically, equipping a knight was a significant investment of a liege and it was the expense of equipment that helped keep "chivlaric" weapons out of the hands of the peasantry. I'm not saying it has to go that far, but I don't think every first level character needs to be able to be decked out as a knight of the realm.
2) Shift the economy to the silver standard. Why have copper and silver coins when they're made completely useless by mid-level (or sooner)?
Just my 2 coppers.
|
Skill Based magic system.
Racial hit points from Beta
Alternate Class abilities.
Advanced poison crafting rules to allow increasing any of the numbers in the stat through concentrating them.
Advanced alchemy crafting
Advanced Masterwork crafting, to give different abilities to masterwork weapons and armor, (reduce wt 10%, increase dex bonus by 1, reduce arcane spell failure by 5%, etc....with each change costing more and more, multiple changes growing exponentially)
All the traits in one location!!!
A flaw/advantage system like the one cryptosnark put out, but reworked into the point buy system, what I did was allow new class skills at 1pt, extra skill points at 1 pt, a new feat at 3 pts, and a new trait at 1pt.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
Level Adjustments.Level Adjustments for races have been eliminated from the game.
Check out the Bestiary when it comes out.
How do you do that without destroying backward compatibility?
Write up a custom "for player characters" section with diminished stats/abilities/etc?
Killing LA's just doesn't make sense either, you can't be a Bugbear without being just like a Bugbear. There shouldn't be any difference between a bugbear that is a monster and a bugbear that is a player (except the Player has more HD coming from class levels.)
They are not just giving the same benefits and writing it down as LA+0 instead of LA+1? That would be horrid.
----------------
My picks:
+2 Cleric types. Those restricted to Light Armour and those allowed Heavy Armour (paid for by say "1 less spell per day of your highest level spell you can cast" or some other balancing point.)
Wild Shape feats? Power Wild Shape (+4 STR/CON) and Agile Wild Shape (+6 DEX) that can't be combined with each other.
Rules clarifications (if they require more text than can be integrated into the 500+ page core PHB book) similar to Rules Compendium?
They are not just giving the same benefits and writing it down as LA +0 instead of LA+1? That would be horrid.
No, they're just removing LA as a concept entirely. Those monsters that Paizo thinks are reasonable to treat as player-races they provide stats for. It's then up to the DM to decide how they want to incorporate that race. The DM figures out how to weight the given creature, if they'll allow "buying down" or anything else. There's simply no formal method for trying to estimate the value of a monster race.
Point is the kobold is written up the same way the drow is. No mention of LA.
Good one-hander combat feats.
Sane multi-class feats. Similar to some seen in 3.5 with less dippable benefits. Something like:
You are exceptionally skilled at following the tracks of those you seek
Prerequisite: Ranger Level 4, Survival 4 ranks, Wis 13
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Survival checks. Additionally, when determining your Track bonus to your Survival skill check to follow tracks, add 1/2 your level (minimum 1) from one other class you have that does not have the Track special ability.
|
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
No, they're just removing LA as a concept entirely
Is it just me, or does that seem like a horrible idea? That isn't "fixing" LA's, that is just simply removing the LA line entirely and making it a DM's job to estimate LA for a monster race?
When they said they were "doing something" about LA, I thought they were doing something like adding Buy off's or a schedule to reduce them as you gain class levels? But to simply remove the line "Level Adjustment: + X" isn't what I was thinking they would do.
Note: I was of the initial opinion LA didn't need changing but was open to what changes were planned.
I would definitely like to see some more domains, and see the Druid's domain list expanded.
Expanding the 'create a sword' magic item abilities would be great too, haven't seen much if anything new there. New magic items, maybe some rules for gathering magic item components(kind of like spell components) as loot and using them to create items, instead of paying GP arbitrarily into an item.
A note: while I think that 'swapping' class features is a neat idea, and maybe even appropriate for an advanced player's guide, I think alot of you are looking for a 'classless' system, which Pathfinder is far from. I hope they continue to focus on limited internal customization of classes, and focusing on flavor and overall role rather than make a system for confusing character creation and unmitigated powergaming.
No, they're just removing LA as a concept entirelyIs it just me, or does that seem like a horrible idea? That isn't "fixing" LA's, that is just simply removing the LA line entirely and making it a DM's job to estimate LA for a monster race?
When they said they were "doing something" about LA, I thought they were doing something like adding Buy off's or a schedule to reduce them as you gain class levels? But to simply remove the line "Level Adjustment: + X" isn't what I was thinking they would do.
I think the general plan is to eliminate it for now and come up with a replacement system after some sober second thought.
I think the general plan is to eliminate it for now and come up with a replacement system after some sober second thought.No, they're just removing LA as a concept entirelyIs it just me, or does that seem like a horrible idea? That isn't "fixing" LA's, that is just simply removing the LA line entirely and making it a DM's job to estimate LA for a monster race?
When they said they were "doing something" about LA, I thought they were doing something like adding Buy off's or a schedule to reduce them as you gain class levels? But to simply remove the line "Level Adjustment: + X" isn't what I was thinking they would do.
From what I recall in various chats the vibe from the Paizo staff is they don't feel they could do monster races justice in the Bestiary or in the Core book. From what I gather there are plans for a more in depth treatment of the subject in some unknown unannounced product.
When that product might come out I'm not sure, this is all just recollections from random posts and conversations. Regardless, LA was so broken as to be essentially a waste of space to include. Which is worse, omitting something or including something awful so you can publish something?
|
|
I had another idea...
One of my players preferred the Beta Cleric domains, what if you had a dedicated domain, that stacked on the existing domain.
Example: You would take the water domain, then for your second domain you would take the dedicated Water domain. Now the Dedicated Domain would grant advanced powers in addition to the basic powers.
I had another idea...
One of my players preferred the Beta Cleric domains, what if you had a dedicated domain, that stacked on the existing domain.
Example: You would take the water domain, then for your second domain you would take the dedicated Water domain. Now the Dedicated Domain would grant advanced powers in addition to the basic powers.
So you would end up being extra specialized in one area? That's a really cool idea. Very flavorful.
|
|
So you would end up being extra specialized in one area? That's a really cool idea. Very flavorful.I had another idea...
One of my players preferred the Beta Cleric domains, what if you had a dedicated domain, that stacked on the existing domain.
Example: You would take the water domain, then for your second domain you would take the dedicated Water domain. Now the Dedicated Domain would grant advanced powers in addition to the basic powers.
Thanks =D
I really liked the "thug" variants of the fighter in UA, and I'd be happy to see a fighter variant with sneak attack, no medium or heavy armor, giving up their extra feats, but gaining a few skill points.I think the UA "thug" is probably the most workable swashbuckler in 3.5. In fact, it looks like this version of the fighter was very much the inspiration for the swashbuckler in the Tome of Secrets, but I would love to see this version of the fighter "official," and potentially legal for PFS as a result.
So, isn't that just a rogue?
|
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
Which is worse, omitting something or including something awful so you can publish something?
I'll grant you dropping it entirely and bringing "something" back later to replace it might be the better option. I guess from my perspective, I never shared the "LA is broken" viewpoint.
One of my players preferred the Beta Cleric domains,
I'm so thrilled they chucked the whole Beta Cleric domain features. If they made it live, the system (PRPG) would be unusable to me. I wouldn't have been able to use it in any of the weekly games due to the complete non-existent backward compatibility of Clerics.
|
|
I had another idea...
One of my players preferred the Beta Cleric domains, what if you had a dedicated domain, that stacked on the existing domain.
Example: You would take the water domain, then for your second domain you would take the dedicated Water domain. Now the Dedicated Domain would grant advanced powers in addition to the basic powers.
This!
Just a thought, but I think it would be cool if the Summoner could summon mindless undead. It's got a sort of Diablo II sense to it that I like.
RANGER:
Spear Combat Style Path: For the Ranger specialized in shortspear, longspear, and various polearms.(Combat Reflexes, Standstill, Lunge,Vital Strike, Strike Back) [all feats usable as long as the character is using a spear/polearm]
Mounted Combat Style Path: For Rangers that rely on their mount to patrol the boarders of civilization and scout out areas. (Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery, Ride By Attack, Spirited Charge, Trample)
MONK:
Martial Arts Styles: Similar to the variant styles in UA, these would provide some benefit for taking a series of feats, such as a skill bonus and a trick of some sort.
New Sorcerer Bloodlines: Shadow (something like the FR shadow adept prestige class, but obviously without any link to Shar), Wild (something like the Wild Mage of AD&D Tome of Magic).
New Classes. Ninja (something flavor-wise like the monk, but eventually gain access to illusion and/or conjuration spells or powers), knight (a lawful d12 tank), something like the hexblade (a fighter with arcane training, the same as the paladin is a fighter with divine training, but with chaotic or evil alignment requirements) and something like the artificer (a blacksmith able to create magical objects and effects even tough he is has neither arcane nor divine training).
Love those ideas. Throw in a Noble class and a shaman (with less spells more spirit/divination class features).
As to the hexblade idea, I would rely more on enchantments to blades then spells per se
|
|
Humm, dealing with the weaker classes
1) Bards: need more ability in combat. A way for songs to have a lingering effect would be good. A larger variety of songs and spells would also help. Maybe give them traditions that add spells to their list.
2) Rangers: could use some additional fighting styles. Rangers could also a spell or feat that would allow a bow shot without a AOO.
One thing I would truly love to see is expanded class abilities like the rogue talents or barbarian rages. Lots of choices
and prestige classes up the ying yang
Would love to see a Ranger combat style that focuses on two-handed weapons (not just spears but useable with axes, great swords, basically any two-hander. )
Maybe a Prc that combines fighter and divine casters like Eldrich knight does fighters and arcane ones. With you effectly leveling in both classes at once when it comes to feats you qualify for and the like. Or just feats you can take that does that for any two class combo.
Maybe a Prc that combines fighter and divine casters like Eldrich knight does fighters and arcane ones.
I always like the Divine Champion PrC myself
It just occured to me that this would be the perfect place to include an non-linier magic system. Sean K. Reynolds has already had experience making a similar system, so i would really love to have an alternate magic system in the rules for mages in Monte Cook's World of darkness, but balanced for pathfinder and set up for DnD's cosmology. This would be the most awesome addition Paizo could possibly make to the book, in my humble oppinion.
|
|
Advanced poison crafting rules to allow increasing any of the numbers in the stat through concentrating them.
They already do...poison description p 558, second paragraph from the top "In addition, each dose of poison increases the DC to resist the poison by +2. This increase is cumulative. Multiple doses do not alter the cure conditions of the poison, and meeting these conditions ends the affliction for all the doses." noted above tells that it increases the duration by half its total.
Advanced alchemy crafting
I also assume they will with this sense one of the 6 classes is going to be The Alchemist. They announced it.