So the group I'm playing with just broke into Book 3 of MM, and my character has broken a subsystem. Inadvertently, mind you.
Wanting to play a lore class and NOT be an archaeologist Bard, I rolled an Investigator.
Not feeling like alchemy was a good match for my vision of the character and liking the Occult Adventures book, I took the Psychic Detective archetype, granting me spells from the Psychic list at the progression (for both spells per day and known) of a Bard.
Wanting a historian, I took the Osirionologist feat out of People of the Sands (knowledge(History)) and the racial alternative out of Inner Sea Races for humans that allows for two languages per rank.
Skill ranks are divided amongst Knowledges, Linguistics, and Spellcraft, with key researcher skills maxed (such as History).
Spells known include a small handful of combat spells, Comprehend Languages, and this little gem of a spell called HYPERCOGNITION
This was all just to suit the concept of a historian and researcher.
I made the character with the intent on being a researcher, but I had no idea of the Research Subsystem or the mechanics it operates off of.
I had no idea I would be breaking the Research Subsystem...
So, start out with the Check:
Being an Int based class with all knowledges; I have a pretty decent score in any given knowledge; low ones (only a single skill rank)sit at +9, high ones crack +14 at level 6.
Next, all rolls dealing with Osirion or its people get +1 from Osirionologist.
HYPERCOGNITION gives me a +6, up to the results of a natural 20 on the d20 roll.
All knowledges get an additional +1d6 via Inspiration.
I'm breaking DC20 on low rolls, high rolls I'm mid 30s.
not too shabby for lvl6.
Then there's the damage:
As a class that can make all knowledge checks untrained (Keen Recollection), I deal a d12 of damage +Int to the library.
Good, but not overpowered, right?
But wait, there's more!
HYPERCOGNITION
HYPERCOGNITION also states that "Immediately after casting the spell, you can begin spending the necessary time to perform an Intelligence check, a Linguistics check to detect a forgery or decipher a hidden message, or a Knowledge check. If the check requires at least 3 rounds, you can perform it five times as quickly (minimum 1 round). "
Meaning that each of these checks, which are supposed to take a day of research, are done in a mere fifth of a day.
This single spell really makes the difference, as I can effectively attempt four checks per day (I only have four second level spells per day).
So yeah, Research Subsystem has been defeated, at least for the time being.
What was supposed to be days of perusing over musty tomes and obscure lore is now some light reading.
Is my character OP?
I don't think so, because my combat ability is fairly lackluster, being focused on research.
The things that have been keeping me in check?
Much like a real life researcher, paywalls are my undoing.
Here is the thing, when you are researching, you are not making ONE check, you are making dozens of checks through the day.
If this was a simple knowledge check after 8 hours reading books, we wouldnt have a subsystem designed for it.
Part of the issue here is that the spell allows you to assemble all gathered information and come to a conclusion much quicker, but how exactly are you shifting through thousands of books mentally when you dont even know which books you will have to assemble yet?
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Yeah, I wouldn't let you use that spell to modify the check. You'd need something that had an hours duration.
Inspiration already makes it trivial anyhow. My group divided into two research teams, one concentrating on history (with the investigator), one on religion (with the oracle) in the libraries where Religion was an appropriate check. Only one of the 4 libraries did the group spend more than 2 8 hour periods.
Thing is; it *is* a single research check for every 12 hours, though it's multiple days of 12hr checks (looking at the rules reprinted in Hell Unleashed atm, recent acquisition).
The spell's duration is "as long as it takes to make that single check", which would include checks that take hours.
Mind you, this doesn't mean I can blow through an entire library with a single check, but it does mean that I can get multiple checks a day.
Why wouldn't you let a player use that spell for such a check?
That sort of thing is *exactly* what that spell is made to do.
If not this, then what's the point of such a spell?
Why the "if the check takes more than 3 rounds" clause?
Mind you, I did break a subsystem, but I did it at the expense of other things.
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Thing is; it *is* a single research check for every 12 hours, though it's multiple days of 12hr checks (looking at the rules reprinted in Hell Unleashed atm, recent acquisition).
If your GM is ok with that, thats fine.
But on my table, the research check is not a regular knowledge check.A knowledge check is done when you try to recollect memories to understand something being read or explained to you.
A research check is done when you collect the info from lots of books and put them together, trying to find a specific piece of information you are looking for.
The key difference here is that it isnt a simple knowledge skill check vs a target DC, but a check that will wield multiple results but has a minimum DC to obtain any result at all.
IMO, the spell should grant you a bonus, just like bards already get a bonus in the form of a d12 instead of a 1d4 or d6, but shouldnt completely reduce the time spent because you cannot cast that spell for every book you collect during that 8-hour research interval.
It's the same issue with casting Fox's Cunning when doing the research check, the bonus doesn't last long enough to help during the 8-hours research. Or casting Fox's Cunning when attempting the skill check to craft magic items.
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Thing is; it *is* a single research check for every 12 hours, though it's multiple days of 12hr checks (looking at the rules reprinted in Hell Unleashed atm, recent acquisition).If your GM is ok with that, thats fine.
But on my table, the research check is not a regular knowledge check.
A knowledge check is done when you try to recollect memories to understand something being read or explained to you.A research check is done when you collect the info from lots of books and put them together, trying to find a specific piece of information you are looking for.
The key difference here is that it isnt a simple knowledge skill check vs a target DC, but a check that will wield multiple results but has a minimum DC to obtain any result at all.
IMO, the spell should grant you a bonus, just like bards already get a bonus in the form of a d12 instead of a 1d4 or d6, but shouldnt completely reduce the time spent because you cannot cast that spell for every book you collect during that 8-hour research interval.
It's the same issue with casting Fox's Cunning when doing the research check, the bonus doesn't last long enough to help during the 8-hours research. Or casting Fox's Cunning when attempting the skill check to craft magic items.
What I read here is...
"I understand what you are saying. But, while you are technically correct on its usage I would house rule it to not work for listed reasons that make sense"| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Hypercognition totally should work for that, and it's easy to fluff how. Honestly, other than research checks what longer than 1 round Knowledge checks are players actually making? Let this spell be useful.
If you tried this on the Book of the Damned, though, you'd get your bad results checks every time you rolled, not a real world 12 hours.