Hi all - just received the Core Rulebook - it is awesome! But I need to print off a sheet or two of all the differences between 3.5 and Pathfinder to give to my loyal and yet skeptical 3.5 players. Anybody know where that is available?
There'll be a conversion guide Real Soon Now. But if you're expecting it to list every last minor difference, I think you'll be disappointed. :-(
It's not, that I am aware. Though I'm sure your players and many others will appreciate your hard work on the project. ;-)
It would be pretty hellish to make something like that unless you were fairly general.
Personally, I'd just get the PDF and do it yourself since you know what your homegame and players use more than we do. Something that I might not even notice might be an important part of your game.
An 18 page conversion guide will be available on the 13th.
hogarth wrote: There'll be a conversion guide Real Soon Now. But if you're expecting it to list every last minor difference, I think you'll be disappointed. :-( Personally, I think a list of all the minor differences would be more useful than one of the major ones. I mean, it's fairly obvious that they've revamped the whole combat maneuver thing, and it's kinda hard to miss that sorcerers now have bloodlines and whatnot. But small things like "Heroes Feast gives +4 to saves vs poison and fear instead of immunity"? Now that's the kind of thing I'd love to have a list of.
Exactly. I know my players - and I am forseeing that there will be a LOT of rule lookups - has anyone been talking about that? the big changes are no big deal. It's the small differences that will mean everything. WE NEED A RIDICULOUSLY LONG (I don't care how long) COMPREHENSIVE "DIFFERENCES" Sheet.
Why doesn't someone (ie you) start a thread that lists all of the differences, one at a time - and make a rule not to replicate. The posts could start out with either "Old Rule/New Rule" or "Rule Edit: --which post you're editing--"
I'm hardly ever on here, but I know my guy would love to spend every second after he reads the entire thing contributing to that. :)
That'll be a fan project. Once I get it, I'm willing to do a chapter etc, just sit down with the PH and the Core Rulebook and check differences. But it'll be us forum bugs who do any list of specifics.
Good luck with that.
I'll be the dyslexic is the corner trying to figure out the new stuff in the 5lb. book.
I'd help with a chapter also...
Haha, I'm obsessive enough to contribute to something like this. It would be fun to dig through the spells and identify all the changes.
This sounds like something that would best be done in a Wiki format, don't you think? Posting everything to this forum might lead to clutter really quick, and make it hard to find what you're looking for.
Dance of Ruin wrote: This sounds like something that would best be done in a Wiki format, don't you think? Posting everything to this forum might lead to clutter really quick, and make it hard to find what you're looking for. Yeah you ninja'd me. Definitely needs to be a wiki.
True, though once a consolidated list is put together we could also put it on a pdf or somewhat, so you can have it with you, or when you *gasp* don't have internet access.
I was thinking of compiling it into a PDF
Sounds good guys - I'ts just good to hear others that feel the same way! Please keep posting here if anybody actually does this...I'd be glad to contribute to the Wiki. Do you think PAIZO would start a WIKI on this? I would think they already had this somewhere as an internal document, don't you think?
Now that I've got the PDF how do we want to do this?
Edit: I think I'm starting with Spells A-F
I'll get busy started on the Index! :D
You guys really going to still go ahead with this when Paizo already made an official 3.5 to Pathfinder conversion guide? It's already got pretty much all of the changes, and is put together in a nice pretty PDF that you can print off and give to your players.
Obviously, the goal is to find all the things not covered in the conversion document. I do suggest reading through the conversion document first to make sure you don't waste time finding things that are already found :)
Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Count Buggula wrote: You guys really going to still go ahead with this when Paizo already made an official 3.5 to Pathfinder conversion guide? It's already got pretty much all of the changes, and is put together in a nice pretty PDF that you can print off and give to your players. It's got how to change characters and guidelines on converting rules, but it doesn't go into the nitty-gritty of the little modifications to individual spells, items etc...
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Count Buggula wrote: You guys really going to still go ahead with this when Paizo already made an official 3.5 to Pathfinder conversion guide? It's already got pretty much all of the changes, and is put together in a nice pretty PDF that you can print off and give to your players. I wish that were the case. The conversion document covers major changes only, not the 1001 rules and nuanced subtleties you thought you knew but can now no longer assume. It's very much like the conversion from 3.0 to 3.5. We must unlearn what we have learned . . . and the best (and, or course, most painful) way to do it to to go through all 575 pages, holding the PHB or DMG up in the the other hand, comparing as you go.
heaven help you, if you, like I, also have 20+ pages of house rules that have to be revamped and checked for consistency.
Here's just a few examples from races and classes:
Races
All mixed races are considered both for affects related to race. Races no longer have individual favored classes, per se. (see classes, below).
Dwarf: +2 Wis. Automatic proficiency w/battleaxe, heavy pick, warhammer. Any weapon with “Dwarven” in name is treated as martial.
Elf: +2 Int. +2 bonus to CL checks to overcome spell resistance. +2 to spellcraft checks to identify magic items. NO AUTOMATIC CHECK TO FIND SECRET DOORS. Weapons with “Elven” in name are considered martial.
Gnome: +2 Cha. Weapons with “Gnome” in name are considered martial. +1 bonus against goblinoids and reptilian humanoids (not just Kobolds). +2 to Perception checks (not just listen). +2 bonus to Craft or profession skill of choice (not specifically to alchemy).
Half-Elf: +2 to any one ability score. Choose two favored classes; gain +1 hp or skill point per level takin in one of these classes. Skill focus as a bonus feat an 1st level. +2 Bonus to Perception (instead of +1). No bonus to Diplomacy/Gather information.
Half-Orc: +2 to any one ability score. +2 to Intimidate. Once per day, can fight for 1 round past going below 0 hp. Proficient with greataxes and falchions. Weapons with “Orc” in name are considered martial.
Halfling: +2 Cha. +2 Perception, Acrobatics, and Climb. Automatically proficient with slings, weapons with “Halfling” in the name are considered martial. NO bonus with thrown weapons or slings.
Human: +2 to any one ability score.
Classes
A character’s favored class is chosen when created and cannot thereafter be changed. This is often the class the character starts with, but need not be. For each level a character takes in his favored class, he can choose to gain +1 hp or +1 skill point. Prestige classes cannot be favored classes.
The Concentration and Use Rope skills are no more and no longer appears on any class skill lists. Other skills have been combined; their removal or replacement is listed below
There are no “bonus” skill points at 1st level. Instead, any skill with at least one rank adds +3 to the skill bonus.
Barbarian:
• Skills – expanded by Acrobatics and Perception to grant spot/search/tumble/balance
• Rage – Cannot use Int/Dex/Cha based skills (except Fly, Acrobatics, Intimidate, and Ride) or abilities that require thought or concentration. Rage Points and Powers replace the Rages per day system. Basic Rage benefits/penalties do not change.
Bard:
• Skills – Add Intimidate. Bardic Knowledge now grants the ability to make knowledge checks untrained and adds ½ bard level to all Knowledge checks (replaces previous abilities). A number of abilities (Lore Master, Jack of All Trades
• Slightly better spell progression and number of spells known
• Bardic Music is 4 + 2/level after first + Cha bonus rounds per day instead of number of times per day. Start as a standard action, but free action to maintain; limited to one effect at a time. Switching effects is a standard action. Only interruptible by stun, paralyzed, unconscious or physically prevention. Abilities are gained at a particular level, not minimum perform ranks.
• *Distraction at 1st; *Versatile Performance, *Well-Versed at 2nd; Inspire Competence increases +1/4 levels beyond 3rd; slightly different progression for Inspire Courage. Inspire Greatness has slightly better progression. *Dirge of Doom at 8th; *Jack of all Trades, *Versatile Performance at 10th; Lore Master at 11th; *Soothing Performance at 12th; *Frightening Tune at 14th; *Deadly Performance at 20th. Starred (*) items are new abilities.
• NO Song of Freedom ability
Cleric:
• Skills – Add Appraise, Knowledge (Nobility), Linguistics, Sense Motive.
• Spell progression tops off earlier for lower level spells (4 vs 5). Clerics can cast an unlimited number of zero level spells per day.
• Channel Energy REPLACES Turn Undead.
• Domains grant abilities and bonus spells, but abilities are completely different (and tiered by cleric level) from the 3.5 versions. Some spell list variations as well.
• Proficient with the favored weapon of their diety regardless of domains chosen.
• NO PROFICIENCY IN HEAVY ARMOR
Druid
• Add Scythe to weapon list
• Skills – Add Fly, Knowledge (Geography), Spellcraft; REMOVE DIPLOMACY
• Spells – Spells per day progression tops out at 4, not 5. Druids can cast an unlimited number of zero level spells per day.
• Nature’s Bond ability at 1st level allows choosing either an animal companion or one of these spell domains: Air, Animal, Earth, Fire, Plant, Water or Weather; choice cannot later be changed. Animal companion choices and their progression are different
• Resist Nature’s Lure now applies its save bonus against spells that utilize or target plants.
• Wild Shape is gained at 4th level and is significantly different in progression and execution
Fighter
• Skills – Add Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Knowledge Engineering, Profession, Survival; REMOVE JUMP
• Bravery – at 2nd level, fighters add +1 +1/4 levels after 1st to saves vs fear; Armor Training – reduce armor check penalties by 1 at 3rd and 1 per 4 levels thereafter; Weapon Training – add bonuses to attack/damage/combat maneuvers with chosen groups of weapons at 5th and every 4 levels thereafter; add Armor Mastery at 19th and Weapon Mastery at 20th levels.
Monk
• Skills – Add Intimidate, Knowledge (History), REMOVE DIPLOMACY, KNOWLEDGE (ARCANA)
• Weapons – add short spear, spear, and short sword.
• Read the whole class. Carefully. And the conversion document. It’s chock full of differences. For starters, AC Bonus and Flurry of Blows progress differently.
Paladin
• Skills – Add Spellcraft
• Spells – slightly better spell progression.
• Smite Evil is a swift action. Damge is 1/class level, or 2/class level vs creatures with the evil subtype, evil-aligned dragons, or undead. Smite evil bypasses any DR possessed by the creature. The effects last until the target is dead. Times per day = 1 + 1 per 3 levels past 1st.
• Lay on Hands is usable a number of times per day up to ½ her Paladin level. Effect is healing 1d6 per two paladin levels or harming undead for same amount (touch attack, no save). Standard action to use on others, swift action to use on self.
• Mercy – at 3rd level, the Lay on Hands ability has additional beneficial effects, such as removing conditions.
• Channel Positive Energy – at 4th level, the paladin can channel positive energy like a cleric of her level; this consumes two uses of Lay on Hands.(limited only by number of Lay on Hands attempts left). REPLACES Turn Undead
• Divine Bond – choose a mount or make a weapon extra special. REPLACES Special Mount. The special mount is treated like a druid’s companion.
• Aura of Resolve at 8th level; Aura of Justice at 11th level; Aura of Faith at 14th level; Aura of Righteousness at 17th level; Holy Champion at 20th level.
• REMOVE Remove Disease.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
I'd also like to take this opportunity to beg for pity from the staff. Somewhere, I know there are a whole series of notes and lists details the delta made to the system; there's also likely a good justification for every last change. Even some of that would be exceedingly valuable in allowing us to wrap our minds around how we need to change our thinking. I love the new core rule book, and love the links in the PDF even more. But it's just too big to read all the way through and prep my players and I for the changes we need to get used to in a few weeks time.
I think that in many cases, it's unnecessary to post the actual differences. What's important is to note that something is different in the first place.
This is especially true for spells, where I reckon the largest number of minor changes have been made. Things like Dispel Magic no longer having an area option (but on the other hand not being capped at +10).
Staffan Johansson wrote: I think that in many cases, it's unnecessary to post the actual differences. What's important is to note that something is different in the first place. I certainly wouldn't say no to a master list of changes. I just wonder if one actually exists.
However, one approach to prepping a game in a few weeks is for everybody in the group to go through and carefully review their class and in some cases all their favorite spells.. The GM doing likewise for all their NPCs.
I know that sounds obvious, but I don't mean it as patronizing as you might think. There are a lot of small subtle changes. It may be literally easier to reduce the scope of study to what one can absorb in one shot. If you're using an Adventure Path, you know all the NPCs and the PCs.. that's where your scope of study begins.
The GM will have it a little harder of course.
The main thing I want is spell changes.... That's why I'm going through the spells.
Could this list be set up as a kind of wikipedia, so that people like me can contribute even a little when they have some time free to do so ?
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