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AMIRI the Barbarian, she's all the rage !
If she's good enough for a certain industry CEO, she's good (well chaotic neutral) enough for me.
LEVEL 17 !! She survived an AP !
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AMIRI the Barbarian, she's all the rage !If she's good enough for a certain industry CEO, she's good (well chaotic neutral) enough for me.
LEVEL 17 !! She survived an AP !
For Jason and the crew, you may want to do some spellchecking and general going over. When you mention the added "class spells", it should probably be "class skills", also in her stat block her skills are in two seperate places.
Other than the above, which is no fault of Amiri's, I really like the barbarian. And I might add she's very sexy too. :-)
The skills are in one place, except for those that are modified by her rage.
Power attack is -1 and another -1 for every 4 levels.
I can't see how fortification armour works.
Composite bows seem to have lost the specific strength rating now, which I think is great.
CEO
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AMIRI the Barbarian, she's all the rage !If she's good enough for a certain industry CEO, she's good (well chaotic neutral) enough for me.
LEVEL 17 !! She survived an AP !
I am liking where my character will be heading in, what, 15 more levels! Jason is stingy with the XP and Amiri is only 2nd level in our playtest. Sigh. So long to go. So long. :)
-Lisa
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Also, just curious, but wasn't Amiri's weapon a Large Bastard Sword? Did they not want to waste a feat on the exotic proficiency?
I guess it's like the monk's weapon too, which I had thought was a Temple Sword, but it got 'changed' into a short sword. Oh well.
Still an overall awesome preview, though I can't wait for the Rogue and Wizard! :)
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AMIRI the Barbarian, she's all the rage !If she's good enough for a certain industry CEO, she's good (well chaotic neutral) enough for me.
LEVEL 17 !! She survived an AP !
I am liking where my character will be heading in, what, 15 more levels! Jason is stingy with the XP and Amiri is only 2nd level in our playtest. Sigh. So long to go. So long. :)
-Lisa
Just go out in the woods and kill boars Lisa. ;-)
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Climbs out of his overheated Mad Cat, looks around wearily, sighs, climbs into an Entry Plug and starts up his EVA-01 complete with dual plasma cannons.
All right folks, if somebody cuts my umbilical cable I will only go for a page or two in this thread before power goes out, so make it quick...
On a more serious note: like I thought, Barbarian is the new Fighter. Pure melee awesome. Oh and the Power Attack change is cool. Well done, Mr B, well done !
I dearly hope that the rage power that temporarily grants the barbarian darkvision is among those booted from the final barbarian, since I can't really come up with a good explanation for how being angry can make you see in complete darkness. The idea of more supernatural variants of the barbarian that do elemental damage and get darkvision, etc. isn't completely anathema to me, but I think Paizo has made the right call to make the basic Barbarian more "Vanilla" and add in such supernatural sprinkles later for those who want them. IMHO, part of the appeal of the Barbarian was that it was a straightforward beating stick, and this version seems to have moved back to that and away from the mystical stuff we saw in the beta.
Overall though, it looks fine.
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The skills are in one place, except for those that are modified by her rage.
Power attack is -1 and another -1 for every 4 levels.
I can't see how fortification armour works.
Composite bows seem to have lost the specific strength rating now, which I think is great.
Oooh. If they've changed fortification, I would definitely consider that to be a Good Thing. Rolling the percentage chance for light and medium was irritating, and heavy just made rogues cry.
But yeah, I think the barbarian looks great. I note that with her Con score, Amiri only loses the equivalent of 4 rounds of rage per day when compared with a 3.5 barbarian (5/day of 9 rounds each), and her rage is much more versatile.
Actually, come to think of it, I think her rounds of rage should be 42, since the formula would be 4 base+6 raging Con+32 for levels. So only 3 rounds less, then!
In fact, below Con 22 in rage, the Pathfinder barbarian gets more rounds of rage per day than their 3.5 counterparts! Though on the other side, at Constitution scores above 22, the 3.5 barbarian starts pulling away. Still way less versatile, though. I definitely like this barbarian!
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Climbs out of his overheated Mad Cat, looks around wearily, sighs, climbs into an Entry Plug and starts up his EVA-01 complete with dual plasma cannons.
We can show some optimisim, clearly there is peace in our time on this thread ! I see no need to mount the Ragnarok.
Walks over to Ragnorok, mounts it to recalibrate Gauss Rifles of Peace and the Lava Bombard Gun of Congeniality, while eyeing Gorbacz with envy.
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- Amiri has 10 Feats. That would be one to many for an 17th level beta PRRPG human Barbarian.
Two feats at first level, one on 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17. Seems right.
I'm wondering why she is wearing a hide armor, though. Unless they have removed the hide shirt, even with a +4 armor bonus the hide armor is a suboptimal choice.
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Director of Games
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Couple of quick points.
1. Yes, it should say class skills, not class spells.
2. The stats under Base Statistics are those that were modified by rage, which is why they are incomplete listings.
3. She is wearing hide armor due to the illo. She is wielding a greatsword for simplicities sake.
That is all for now.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
No hide shirt because that one isn't in the core rules. Same for temple swords.
I dearly hope that the rage power that temporarily grants the barbarian darkvision is among those booted from the final barbarian, since I can't really come up with a good explanation for how being angry can make you see in complete darkness.
Barbarian rage isn't just getting angry. It's surrendering to the basic fury of nature. Throw away civilisations pretenses and your senses might become sharper than you think they could be.
Best barbarian ever!
strong, funny to play and very customizable now thanks to rage powers, which incidentally have a strong TOBbish flavour I love...
Thanks Jason, this is a masterpiece. My only concerns, before seeing the whole list of feats, is about the comparison with the fighter, whose strenght relies completely on them.
But I trust your job! :)
Barbarian rage isn't just getting angry. It's surrendering to the basic fury of nature. Throw away civilisations pretenses and your senses might become sharper than you think they could be.
...clearly we have completely different opinions about how mystical and "primal" the barbarian should be, but *shrugs* to each his own.
Have to say that I'm liking the look of some of the newer rage powers, as well as the existing ones kept (sorry, but wasn't a big fan of the elemental one).
They don't seem to powerful to abiliites (well most don't, there are one or two, but then again I'm assuming those represent their power at 17th level, so it seems more balanced at that point). But at the same time, they're not as underpowered as a the Beta ones.
I love the new Barbarian! In fact, I wholeheartedly approve of all the changes Paizo appears to have taken with respect to this class. I like the new rage system and I like the new Power Attack, but I am particularly pleased by the removal of supernatural powers from the rage power list.
Barbarian rage isn't just getting angry. It's surrendering to the basic fury of nature. Throw away civilisations pretenses and your senses might become sharper than you think they could be....clearly we have completely different opinions about how mystical and "primal" the barbarian should be, but *shrugs* to each his own.
I agree with your opinion on the matter. I would have loathed a Barbarian with "primal"/"supernatural" powers. I have no problem with some specializations of the Barbarian (Prestige Classes or non-core optional rage powers) taking that route, but I am glad the core Barbarian will remain clear of those things.
Barbarian rage isn't just getting angry. It's surrendering to the basic fury of nature. Throw away civilisations pretenses and your senses might become sharper than you think they could be....clearly we have completely different opinions about how mystical and "primal" the barbarian should be, but *shrugs* to each his own.
Not "should". "Could". My dogma is "more options = more fun"
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Hooray power attack! So an extra 50% damage eh? That's interesting. So basically...
.
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Penalty - Offhand Bonus - Normal Bonus - Two Handed Bonus-1 +1 +2 +3
-2 +2 +4 +6
-3 +3 +6 +9
-4 +4 +8 +12
-5 +5 +10 +15Could have just said 'equal to', 'double', and 'triple', but whatever works. :)
Or, I think, if I've got the math worked out right, take your BAB, divide it by 4, round the result down, then add one. The result X is the magnitude of your attack penalty and your off-hand damage bonus, 2*X is your normal bonus, and 3*X is your bonus with a two-handed weapon.
I think this is a lot like the other previews, enough to tease but not really enough to evaluate (as they should be). All of the classes seem 'better' or more 'killer'; which is obviously what Paizo want. I reckon they have upped the power as much to appeal to our inner-optimiser as to fix any problems. Well all want our PCs (or, for htose of us who DM and who secretly wish we could actually PLAY a character for once in the last 20 years.....) to be better. This happened between 2 and 3 also 3 and 4 editions. Probably previous editions as well, but I have had a few beers and can't be bothered thinking back that far.
I am not saying this is a BAD thing but it is definite that increasing a PCs power is a selling point, and these previews definitely hit that.
Anyway, the Barbarians (stats that is, her armour and weapon image is a little not to my taste) look good. But I am really looking forward to having that big fat book delivered to my hand by my friendly courier driver to really form an opinion :-)
Or, I think, if I've got the math worked out right, take your BAB, divide it by 4, round the result down, then add one. The result X is the magnitude of your attack penalty and your off-hand damage bonus, 2*X is your normal bonus, and 3*X is your bonus with a two-handed weapon.
LOL thanks for that, much simpler!
Especially after a visit from Tui (http://www.tui.co.nz/)
My understanding is that power attack goes up to -6 at BAB 20.
BAB | Penalty | Primary | Off-Hand | Two-Handed
1 | -1 | +2 | +1 | +3
4 | -2 | +4 | +2 | +6
8 | -3 | +6 | +3 | +9
12 | -4 | +8 | +4 | +12
16 | -5 | +10 | +5 | +15
20 | -6 | +12 | +6 | +18
I can't quite figure out the statement about greater vital strike and power attack during a critical.
"If she were to score a critical hit, while using Greater Vital Strike and Power Attack, her damage would jump to 10d6+68"
Is that supposed to say (5d6 + 34)x2? Or is it (10d6 + 68)x2? Or is it supposed to say (10d6 + 34)x2?
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I can't quite figure out the statement about greater vital strike and power attack during a critical."If she were to score a critical hit, while using Greater Vital Strike and Power Attack, her damage would jump to 10d6+68"
Is that supposed to say (5d6 + 34)x2? Or is it (10d6 + 68)x2? Or is it supposed to say (10d6 + 34)x2?
I think I figured it out: Base weapon damage 2d6, doubled with a crit to 4d6. Vital Strike adds base weapon damage again, so 6d6, Improved and Greater Vital Strike up that to 10d6 total. Str 30 while raging is a +10 to damage, or +15 with a 2-handed weapon, then +4 from magic, and +15 from power attack. 15 +4 +15 = 34, and 34 x2 from the critical is 68, thus 10d6+68.
I think she might even be able to use her Powerful Blow rage ability to add another +5 to the base damage, or +10 on the crit (at least in 3.5 it would work that way, static points added always multiply, extra dice do not), so a maximum possible on her own with a single critical hit is 10d6+78... assuming you can take a swift action in the same round as taking advantage of the Vital Strike feat chain.
I think she might even be able to use her Powerful Blow rage ability to add another +5 to the base damage, or +10 on the crit (at least in 3.5 it would work that way, static points added always multiply, extra dice do not), so a maximum possible on her own with a single critical hit is 10d6+78... assuming you can take a swift action in the same round as taking advantage of the Vital Strike feat chain.And now I wonder how/if the Vital Strike chain interacts with Cleave. *scratches his head*
If not, he can charge up and make a single attack with his longsword using both Power Attack and Improved Vital Strike.
Im a bit disappointed we have not seen Overhand Chop, either.
In Beta:- Cleave - Full round action.
- Great cleave - Full round action.
- Vital strike - Used while performing a full-attack action.
- Improved Vital Strike - Used while performing a full-attack action.
- Overhand Chop - Standard action.
- Backswing - Used while performing a full-attack action.
- Charge - Full round action.
So, you couldn't use any combination except Improved/Vital Strike + Backswing.
Now, as seen in Valeros, Improved Vital Strike has changed because it can be used while charging, so it is no more "while performing a full-attack action". I hope Paizo has clearly stated which combinations are allowed in the final version.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Wow, new toughness makes for interesting swashbuckler build.
Take a rogue (S:13, D:15, C:12, I:10(+2 human/half-elf/half-orc bonus) W:8, CH:14)
First level take Toughness, (Humans can take Iron Will, or something else) Preferred class goes to HP, so you have 8(HD)+1(Pref Class)+1(Con)+3(Toughness) = 13 HP. You go up to Rogue 8 and end up with (average) 64 HP. You can then go into Duelist for 10 levels.
So a Rogue 8/Duelist 9 would have a BAB of +15, roughly 131 HP, Saves of +5/+11/+5 Sneak attack 4d6, 4 rogue talents, Evasion and all the Duelist goodness.
Not quite enough to take on a raging Amri, but definately viable. (And survivable at low levels).
Re: Intimidating Glare
If the fear effects that stacked in the beta still stack, this could prove to be an overwhelming ability.
Round 1: Attack. Move Action Glare (Shaken for X rounds)
Round 2: Attack. Move Action Glare (Shaken becomes frightened and will try to flee)
Round 3: (If opponent still present.) Attack. Move Action Glare (Frightened becomes Panicked and will cower if it cannot flee)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Re: Intimidating Glare
If the fear effects that stacked in the beta still stack, this could prove to be an overwhelming ability.
Round 1: Attack. Move Action Glare (Shaken for X rounds)
Round 2: Attack. Move Action Glare (Shaken becomes frightened and will try to flee)
Round 3: (If opponent still present.) Attack. Move Action Glare (Frightened becomes Panicked and will cower if it cannot flee)
I think they've that taken care of "Since these no long consume rage points, most have been reworked to be used only once per rage or once per day".
I have just noticed a small thing in Amiri's stats which can be a huge change:
Ranged +2 frost composite longbow +21/+16/+11/+6 (1d8+9/x3 plus 1d6 cold)
Gear (...) +2 frost composite longbow, (...)
There is no Mighty (+something) anywhere ! And since Amiri is using her 24 Str (+7) and a +2 frost longbow, the damage is 1d8+9 (plus 1d6 frost).
Is this a change in Composite Longbows, or only a typo in the longbow's description ?
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Wow, new toughness makes for interesting swashbuckler build.
Take a rogue (S:13, D:15, C:12, I:10(+2 human/half-elf/half-orc bonus) W:8, CH:14)
First level take Toughness, (Humans can take Iron Will, or something else) Preferred class goes to HP, so you have 8(HD)+1(Pref Class)+1(Con)+3(Toughness) = 13 HP. You go up to Rogue 8 and end up with (average) 64 HP. You can then go into Duelist for 10 levels.
So a Rogue 8/Duelist 9 would have a BAB of +15, roughly 131 HP, Saves of +5/+11/+5 Sneak attack 4d6, 4 rogue talents, Evasion and all the Duelist goodness.
Not quite enough to take on a raging Amri, but definately viable. (And survivable at low levels).
Funnily enough, this is pretty much what I am playing in the Second Darkness AP...only Rogue 5 right now, and no toughness yet, but still...
-t
I like the fact that rage points are out. I do wonder why a point system was a problem for the barbarian but not for the monk, however.
(such as the one that did elemental damage), but these have been trimmed in favor of abilities that are all exceptional abilities. You might see some supernatural rage powers in later books, but they will be tied to specific themes.
WARNING *RANT*
You happy you whiny purists? Really? Was it that hard to exspand the theme of the barbarian? Did it make your brain hurt that much? There was nothing wrong with some of those powers, except they were too week in some cases, and you know it. I am sorry for being bitter, but the slight ting of lycanthropic or druidic flavor (depending on the power) we great sense these classes were built for the tribal outdoor setting.
Grant it we might see these later on, but good luck with our Pathfinder Society characters.
I just hope they did something to replace the power to make damage with TWF and barbarians better, like elemental rage did.
I like the fact that rage points are out. I do wonder why a point system was a problem for the barbarian but not for the monk, however.
*RANT CONTINUED*
Because too many people are lazy. The point system was fine.
Less complicated than to play a wizard.
Edit: Also, do you take penalties to your CMB when using a successive attack for your bull rush attempt?
Last I checked, no.
WARNING *RANT*You happy you whiny purists? Really? Was it that hard to exspand the theme of the barbarian? Did it make your brain hurt that much? There was nothing wrong with some of those powers, except they were too week in some cases, and you know it. I am sorry for being bitter, but the slight ting of lycanthropic or druidic flavor (depending on the power) we great sense these classes were built for the tribal outdoor setting.
Grant it we might see these later on, but good luck with our Pathfinder Society characters.
I just hope they did something to replace the power to make damage with TWF and barbarians better, like elemental rage did.
I can't speak for others, but the reason I disliked it is because I've never heard of any barabrian myth in which the main character gains elemental attacks or nightvision simply by means of being a barbarian.
In removing them, Paizo keep alot of folk happy since they can easily have non-magical barbarians in their game. Also, house-ruling a new rage power isn't as hard as house-ruling one out. I know plenty of folk who wouldn't discount any core ability for the simple fact that it's core (despite that most of the inbalancing factors featured in 3.5 were in core). Theres little to stop you house-ruling the power back in your games, but it'll be harder for some folk (like myself) to keep it out of mines if it was included in the main book.