it count as a monk weapon now?
Director of Games
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Might as well go for Occam first: Short swords are one of the weapons PF monks get proficiency with?I gave Sajan a short sword for a very specific reason, but no one has figured it out quite yet.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Ding. Ding. Ding. We have a weenah! You win a prize!*
:-)
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
*Prize has no actual value. Prize may or may not actually exist. Do not taunt the prize. Some assembly required. Prize not included in prize. If you experience a prize lasting more than four hours... um, nevermind.
I gave Sajan a short sword for a very specific reason, but no one has figured it out quite yet.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Cool. Are we all blind?
He is level 8 and has 4 flurry of blows +9/+9/+4/+44 attacks. How can he have 4 attacks? Help me out people.
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Might as well go for Occam first: Short swords are one of the weapons PF monks get proficiency with?I gave Sajan a short sword for a very specific reason, but no one has figured it out quite yet.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo PublishingDing. Ding. Ding. We have a weenah! You win a prize!*
:-)
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing*Prize has no actual value. Prize may or may not actually exist. Do not taunt the prize. Some assembly required. Prize not included in prize. If you experience a prize lasting more than four hours... um, nevermind.
You MONSTER. (I can't complain, Marvel's done it to me for years!)
Huh, I can see it, if you roll the usual monk-ish swords and stuff like wobbly Chinese blades into a general short sword classification.
I'm guessing the real benefit here is that it makes it easier for a monk to find a useful bladed weapon far from "home" where temple swords, sianghams, and such may be hard to come by.
I gave Sajan a short sword for a very specific reason, but no one has figured it out quite yet.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo PublishingCool. Are we all blind?
He is level 8 and has 4 flurry of blows +9/+9/+4/+4
4 attacks. How can he have 4 attacks? Help me out people.
Nope blog says "At 8th level, this means that Sajan has one additional attack and all of those attacks are at a +1 over his 3.5 counterpart. If we look at 20th level, Sajan would have 2 extra attacks and those attacks are at a +3 over the 3.5 statistics. Of course, "
Might as well go for Occam first: Short swords are one of the weapons PF monks get proficiency with?I gave Sajan a short sword for a very specific reason, but no one has figured it out quite yet.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo PublishingDing. Ding. Ding. We have a weenah! You win a prize!*
:-)
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Yes, but they had proficiency with it in the beta too, but they can't use it when using flurry of blows.
I still like 4 flurry attacks at lvl 8 :-)
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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Cool. Are we all blind?
He is level 8 and has 4 flurry of blows +9/+9/+4/+4
4 attacks. How can he have 4 attacks? Help me out people.
Well, they said flurry works like TWF now. So I suspect that the 2nd and 4th attacks are from treating the flurry as though Sajan had both Two Weapon Fighting and Improved Two Weapon Fighting. Probably ITWF is gained at 6th level.
I like this a lot better than a third flurrry at max bonus. Particularly when combined with ki, where four attacks got a bit gross.
Nope blog says "At 8th level, this means that Sajan has one additional attack and all of those attacks are at a +1 over his 3.5 counterpart. If we look at 20th level, Sajan would have 2 extra attacks and those attacks are at a +3 over the 3.5 statistics. Of course, "I gave Sajan a short sword for a very specific reason, but no one has figured it out quite yet.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo PublishingCool. Are we all blind?
He is level 8 and has 4 flurry of blows +9/+9/+4/+4
4 attacks. How can he have 4 attacks? Help me out people.
So can he go TWF + Imp. TWF and get even more attacks?
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Director of Games
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So can he go TWF + Imp. TWF and get even more attacks?Nope blog says "At 8th level, this means that Sajan has one additional attack and all of those attacks are at a +1 over his 3.5 counterpart. If we look at 20th level, Sajan would have 2 extra attacks and those attacks are at a +3 over the 3.5 statistics. Of course, "I gave Sajan a short sword for a very specific reason, but no one has figured it out quite yet.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo PublishingCool. Are we all blind?
He is level 8 and has 4 flurry of blows +9/+9/+4/+4
4 attacks. How can he have 4 attacks? Help me out people.
No. This particular confusion has been clarified.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
I would say no, as it mimics those feats, so he can not double them by taking them. They would count for his normal attacks however , but not FoB
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Director of Games
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Yes, but they had proficiency with it in the beta too, but they can't use it when using flurry of blows.
I still like 4 flurry attacks at lvl 8 :-)
Hmm. I thought that was a change from the beta. Well, that is what I get for having 5 versions of the rules floating around in my head.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
So can he go TWF + Imp. TWF and get even more attacks?No. This particular confusion has been clarified.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Thanks.
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Director of Games
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Are any of the remaining previews going to be at high (15+) level, or are they all going to stay in the 8-12 range? Seelah and Valeros were nice, but still, I want more insight on the high end of the game! At least one high level iconic would be nice to see.
Fear not, I've got a few high level iconics lined up in the coming weeks.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
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Are any of the remaining previews going to be at high (15+) level, or are they all going to stay in the 8-12 range? Seelah and Valeros were nice, but still, I want more insight on the high end of the game! At least one high level iconic would be nice to see.
Any meaningful Seltyiel preview would pretty much have to be level 10+...
Jason, is it correct the last iterative attack at +4? Which is, the whole +9/+9/+4/+4 is a correct feature of Sajan, or is it a typo and shold be +9/+9/+9/+4 because he is using a Ki point?
Or rather, using a Ki point he would have +9/+9/+9/+4/+4 ? In this case, he REALLY rocks !...
Jason, is it correct the last iterative attack at +4? Which is, the whole +9/+9/+4/+4 is a correct feature of Sajan, or is it a typo and shold be +9/+9/+9/+4 because he is using a Ki point?
Or rather, using a Ki point he would have +9/+9/+9/+4/+4 ? In this case, he REALLY rocks !...
From the preview it says he gains another attack at 8th level so +9/+9/+4/+4 would seem to be correct without the ki point
stuffFrom the preview it says he gains another attack at 8th level so +9/+9/+4/+4 would seem to be correct without the ki point
Speaking of blind. It's the third time this has been answered. LOL. For times counting the Preview ;-)
Are any of the remaining previews going to be at high (15+) level, or are they all going to stay in the 8-12 range? Seelah and Valeros were nice, but still, I want more insight on the high end of the game! At least one high level iconic would be nice to see.Fear not, I've got a few high level iconics lined up in the coming weeks.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Nice. I'm hoping to see a high level Barbarian with iterative attacks as a standard action. Perhaps by picking a feat at level 15 or 16.
To TomJohn Pathfinder Wiki list of iconics
Seltyiel is the iconic Half Elf Fighter/Wizard/Eldrich Knight. He is also the first prestidge class iconic and is the first evil iconic.
climbs into his Madcat and loads up incendiary missiles
Don't you freeborn know anything! it's a timber wolf, A Timber WOLF. STRAVAG! , Know your gear, Even a Ghost bear Sibko knows that......
Sajan's CMD at level 8 puts all of the other iconics to shame naturally, even if they're higher level. Harsk comes the closest, at 29(32 vs bullrush).
And I even think it's understated.
10 + 8 (BAB) + 2 (Str) + 3 (Dex) + 3 (Wis) + 3 (Monk AC) + 1 (Dodge) + 1 (Deflection) = 31 [I think in the excitement over adding the Monk and Wis, he left off the last two (or Str)]New Monk looks great, but what does this mean?
- "This system is revised from the 3.5 version to work using mechanics similar to the Two-Weapon Fighting feats, but the new monk goes one step further and uses its monk level as its base attack bonus whenever it uses flurry of blows"
Has the monk now full BAB when he use flurry of blows?
In the Beta the flurry attack at level 12 and 13 were the same.
And the flurry at level 16 and 17 were the same.
So at level 18 it is now?:
+16/+16/+16/+11/+6/+1
Level 18 flurry would be +16/+16/+11/+11/+6/+6/+1/+1 I believe (maybe not that last +1). Replacing the "extra" extra attack from flurry at high levels makes a lot of sense. Trust Paizo to make the monk stronger, while also eliminating some brokenness.
The description implies it works like TWF, so it should be +8 level, +2 Str, +1 Weapon Focus, -2 flurry = +9Is that the new part? In 3.5 it was -1 from 5th to 8th, 0 from 9th up.
Is that fixed now at -2 to work like TWF?
Will we see it only in the final book=?
Right, the lowered penalty of Flurry of Blows was a 3.5 idea to try to scale Monk attack bonus closer to the Fighter - basically filling in the gaps at 5th and 9th. Pathfinder fills in the gaps at 1st, 13th, and 17th.
Hmmm, Sajan has 10 feats. That's more than a spider...
1 Human
1 Free Stunning Fist
4 Leveling feats (1, 3, 5, and 7)
4 Bonus Monk feats (I am guessing 2, 4, 6, and 8, like a fighter)
Though evidently, unlike a fighter, there is no level 1 bonus feat.
It's 3 Bonus Monk feats (1, 2, 6) + Improved Unarmed Strike also free at 1st.
As for your flavor text for flurry - I think Masika had it pretty perfect: when the monk has a full-round action to spend flurrying, they go "into style" and execute the precise strikes they have trained endlessly for, instead of chaotic melee.
Looks good! - I would point out that he *is* wearing a Monk's Robe - so that AC bonus is the same as Beta (+1/4), I believe. The Amulet repricing is also as per Beta (and a great change).
I think it worth noting that unless I'm mistaken about the feats, or there's been a change in prerequisites, Sajan wouldn't have a feat at 8th level to take Greater Disarm (BAB prereq +6, per forum Beta release)... but who cares, it's cool! :)
Stand Still feat is out of the psionic SRD (not a psionic feat though) - combined with Shall Not Pass I guess. Language unclear on that example, whether he means you can combine the AOO with Scorpion Style, or just that you could use it later (Scorpion Style was a standard action in the Beta.)
I like the stunning fist add-ons... oo Barb next!
Great Job Jason! - I thought in the Beta even that the Monk was one of the *best* improved classes, because you made it so seamless, and you've finished it here. Added options, improved usefulness, and *simplified* mechanics (all the abilities under Ki, flurry - both as TWF and dropping off the penalty reductions and 2nd extra attack - all together with very solid backwards compatibility.
Again, Great Job!
I think it worth noting that unless I'm mistaken about the feats, or there's been a change in prerequisites, Sajan wouldn't have a feat at 8th level to take Greater Disarm (BAB prereq +6, per forum Beta release)... but who cares, it's cool! :)
Perhaps it was taken as a monk bonus feat(no need to fulfill prerequisites).
I like being able to apply different effects with Stunning Fist. But if that's the only good ability that monks get after level 12 (new stunning fist effects), then I still think a monk would be better off multiclassing. Especially if the Monk's Belt/Monk's Robe still exists!
I was hoping to see some new grapple rules (changed from the Beta), but you can't have everything. :-)
Are any of the remaining previews going to be at high (15+) level, or are they all going to stay in the 8-12 range? Seelah and Valeros were nice, but still, I want more insight on the high end of the game! At least one high level iconic would be nice to see.Fear not, I've got a few high level iconics lined up in the coming weeks.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
When's Ezren making an appearance?
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Don't you freeborn know anything! it's a timber wolf, A Timber WOLF. STRAVAG! , Know your gear, Even a Ghost bear Sibko knows that......Seltyiel is the iconic Half Elf Fighter/Wizard/Eldrich Knight. He is also the first prestidge class iconic and is the first evil iconic.
climbs into his Madcat and loads up incendiary missiles
Give me battle armor any day. I tied up a Sagitaire with a point of Pumas and actually held an objective in a historical game with 4 points of Purifiers, against the Wolfs Dragoons.
Edit, and Baron, with that mentality you sound like a Steiner.
"Though I have to wonder what they are teaching in the sibkos these days. I have spheroid bondsmen who have better language than you..." - Star Captain Matthew Morris, Clan Nova Cat.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Ok, looks like monks get 4 sp/level, and that Sajan put all of his preferred bonuses into HP.
Looks like the amulet doesn't need to be a +1 before it has enhancements on it, not sure I like the implications of that.
Stunning fist DC might be 10 + 1/2 level + Wis bonus (10 + level + Cha bonus would really suck, DC 29 at 20th level?)
"As long as he has at least 1 ki point in his pool, all of his attacks are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction." How... psionic of you.
I like the enhancements on Stunning fist. Also at 16th level, we get the eye plucking maneuver. Daryll Hannah look out :-)
Stand Still as a core feat. How about reckless attack? (How about psionics as core, but why quibble?)
I think it worth noting that unless I'm mistaken about the feats, or there's been a change in prerequisites, Sajan wouldn't have a feat at 8th level to take Greater Disarm (BAB prereq +6, per forum Beta release)... but who cares, it's cool! :)Perhaps it was taken as a monk bonus feat(no need to fulfill prerequisites).
A very very good point - it could have been added to the list gained at 6th level... except (w/out change) Improved Disarm is only added at that point. He couldn't then take it with the 7th level feat, and w/out Combat Expertise (if *that* prereq remained) he couldn't have taken it earlier, unless Improved Disarm got moved down on the list (which would make a lot of sense).
So possibilities are:
I'm guessing the week after Amiri. It's either him or Selty now and there's no way Limpy is going go before Mr. Wizard.When's Ezren making an appearance?
Have you forgotten our lovely elf iconic? We can't have two wizards in a row after all.
Edit, and Baron, with that mentality you sound like a Steiner."Though I have to wonder what they are teaching in the sibkos these days. I have spheroid bondsmen who have better language than you..." - Star Captain Matthew Morris, Clan Nova Cat.
"Ah, nova Cat.Words of Traitors who have forsaken their duty have no meaning, Hide Among the Barbarians for you have forsaken the wisdom of Kerensky and are fit only for Annihilation"
-Star Captain Johnathan Fletcher, 666th Mechanized Assault Cluster, Beta Galaxy. Clan Hell's Horses
Have you forgotten our lovely elf iconic?
That's when rogues are the most dangerous!
Edit, and Baron, with that mentality you sound like a Steiner."Though I have to wonder what they are teaching in the sibkos these days. I have spheroid bondsmen who have better language than you..." - Star Captain Matthew Morris, Clan Nova Cat.
"Ah, nova Cat.Words of Traitors who have forsaken their duty have no meaning, Hide Among the Barbarians for you have forsaken the wisdom of Kerensky and are fit only for Annihilation"
-Star Captain Johnathan Fletcher, 666th Mechanized Assault Cluster, Beta Galaxy. Clan Hell's Horses
Everyone knows that the Clans invaded the Inner Sphere to get their hands on Timbiqui Dark... The Crack Kitties just realized it was far easier to jump sides to get closer to the source.
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As for the Monk preview. Seriously. I'm just glad it's no longer the flurry of misses.
Improved Disarm and Greater Disarm now allegedly give the Monk +14 to Disarm combat maneuvers. I am pretty sure it should be +4 (an additive +2 for each of the two feats), so the extra +10 is a very interesting bonus ;) , unless of course, it is +14 including all the other bonuses, such as BAB and so on.
And I even think it's understated.
10 + 8 (BAB) + 2 (Str) + 3 (Dex) + 3 (Wis) + 3 (Monk AC) + 1 (Dodge) + 1 (Deflection) = 31 [I think in the excitement over adding the Monk and Wis, he left off the last two (or Str)]
Nope, Jason says: "They use their monk level as their base attack bonus when calculating their Combat Maneuver Bonus." CMB, not CMD - so he adds only his normal base attack bonus of 6 for his CMD instead of 8, so it works out as stated. This makes the monk an exception that (for medium creatures) CMD = CMB + Touch AC.
Improved Disarm and Greater Disarm now allegedly give the Monk +14 to Disarm combat maneuvers. I am pretty sure it should be +4 (an additive +2 for each of the two feats), so the extra +10 is a very interesting bonus ;) , unless of course, it is +14 including all the other bonuses, such as BAB and so on.
The "extra" +10 is quite probably his CMB. :)
I must say I am pleased with the Monk overall. I don't have any major beefs with the class as it stands now in the Pathfinder RPG. :)
Improved Disarm and Greater Disarm now allegedly give the Monk +14 to Disarm combat maneuvers. I am pretty sure it should be +4 (an additive +2 for each of the two feats), so the extra +10 is a very interesting bonus ;) , unless of course, it is +14 including all the other bonuses, such as BAB and so on.The "extra" +10 is quite probably his CMB. :)
Yes, that seems likely. :)
Aff, that is amusing indeed.
I am well behind the BT stuff as I stopped caring after the Totc pretty much killed anything of interest that and going with that horrid clickytech time line. I just play older era games or go a alt time line...Operation bulldog should have failed big time..IMHO
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Well, I have to say, I can't think of anything I *don't* like about this one. All the changes seem to be improvements rather than not.
One observation: multi-class monks lose their effective flurry of blows; as far as I can tell, this is the first time in 3.x D&D when a character's Base Attack Bonus is redefined as something else (in this case, Monk class levels). So, a 4th/4th Level Paladin / Monk has a normal BAB of 7, but, when flurrying, has a BAB of only 4 (and then applies a -2...).
The same is true for the Combat Maneuver Bonus. The CMB of a 5th/1st Level Fighter / Monk would be figured off a BAB of 1.
You can argue that this is, on its own, a good idea or not. But it changes the dynamic of multi-class monks substantially, giving Backwards Compatibility a flying back kick to the chest.
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Might as well go for Occam first: Short swords are one of the weapons PF monks get proficiency with?I gave Sajan a short sword for a very specific reason, but no one has figured it out quite yet.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo PublishingDing. Ding. Ding. We have a weenah! You win a prize!*
:-)
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing*Prize has no actual value. Prize may or may not actually exist. Do not taunt the prize. Some assembly required. Prize not included in prize. If you experience a prize lasting more than four hours... um, nevermind.
Hmmm... sounds like the prize is cake......
One observation: multi-class monks lose their effective flurry of blows; as far as I can tell, this is the first time in 3.x D&D when a character's Base Attack Bonus is redefined as something else (in this case, Monk class levels). So, a 4th/4th Level Paladin / Monk has a normal DAD of 7, but, when flurrying, has a BAB of only 4 (and then applies a -2...).
Hi, Chris. I read it as "the monk portion of the BAB is equal to monk level..." So your paladin 4/monk 4 would have BAB +7, +8 when flurrying.
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I still don't why people are calling them "masters of the combat maneuever," though, considering fighters have less MAD and a "permanenent" good BAB. It would be more accurate to say monks are good at avoiding maneuvers.
Aff, that is amusing indeed.
** spoiler omitted **
huh?