Lehmuska's page

249 posts. Alias of Marko Westerlund.


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While we're speaking of spell components, I don't think this has been mentioned here before.

Spell component pouches, holy symbols and holly & mistletoe are cheap, but if you lose them, some of your spells can't be cast anymore. Buy one or two extra just in case. Having a back up holy symbol not only increases your spell selection if your normal holy symbol gets broken, but speeds up play when you don't have to go through all your spells to see which ones require divine focus to cast.

lastknightleft wrote:
Lehmuska wrote:
Nothing in grapple prevents you from taking move actions. If it did, greater grapple wouldn't do anything.
I was refering to the subject of the grapple, not the grappler.

And these differ how exactly?

The Grandfather wrote:
Javell DeLeon wrote:

I'm not sure if this has been covered elsewhere but can you stack rapid shot with manyshot?

Also, does rapid shot still work as in 3.5? The extra attack is at your highest BA?

Has there been any official word on this issue?

I'm not official, but here's a thought. Have you ever made an extra attack that is not at highest BAB, unless the ability that allows you to do the attack specifically stated that you don't do it at your highest BAB?

Nothing in grapple prevents you from taking move actions. If it did, greater grapple wouldn't do anything.

Deussu wrote:

Frozen Fingers of Midnight::
Beating up Natalya and taking her stuff rewards the pathfinders heftly by 347 gp.

Then again,

Frozen Fingers of Midnight::
Not doing so grants the pathfinders a favor.

Even if your DM is anal about material components, scrolls, potions and wands don't use them, so you should have no problems with them.

I doubt they provoke. Bestiary previews just don't give us all the rules.

Dennis da Ogre wrote:
You can't make a full attack during the surprise round so this feat would never apply in combination with a full attack.

That's not exactly true. Normal Pounce lets you full attack even on a surprise round, provided you can charge. How that works with Hellcat pounce, I have no idea.

lostpike wrote:
Lehmuska wrote:

An oil of magic weapon and bless weapon might save you if you run into DR/magic or DR/Evil. These cost 50gp per...

All 1st level paladin potions/oils cost 100gp per the revised list...

Where would this revised list be found?

Also, check errata.

Edit: Actually, I'll show it to you:

Errata wrote:

Page 478

In Table 15–2: Potions, change the 1st-level potion cost for
Paladins and Rangers to 50 gp. Change the 2nd-level potion
costs to 400 gp. Change the 3rd-level potion costs to 1,050 gp.

Are you new to pathfinder society, or old but have trouble keeping your character alive? Look no further, this thread is for you. Here I'll list a few things to buy and use that help you reach your first tier 5-6 scenario.

Things to buy after your first adventure:

Some healing items. If you're sure you won't adventure with a cleric or a druid in the party, buy potions of cure light wounds. If you think there will be clerics or druids playing with you, buy one potion and a couple scrolls. The healer can't always come to your aid, and the potion might save your life. If you are a healer, buy a potion anyway. When you're the only healer, it sucks to bleed to death simply because nobody can cast a cure on you.

This is so important I'm going to say this again as simply as possible. Even if you aren't a healer, you should buy healing items. In a global campaign, you can't count on someone else to have spells and items to heal you when you get hurt.

Protip: infernal healing is a great spell for healing between combats. It heals more than cure light wounds and can be used by arcane casters in addition to divine casters. It can be found in Cheliax, Empire of Devils. If you own the book, look into it, but don't rely too much on the spell. As far as combat healing goes, it's horrible.

Get a few vials of alchemist's fire and a dozen or so pints of oil. You will encounter monsters that you can't hurt with weapons (too high DR, too high AC, swarm, etc). When this happens, don't panic. Toss an alchemist's fire on the enemy, and when he's burning, continue with oil. Oil is cheap, only 1 sp per unit. One more thing, while the rules in equipment chapter say it takes a full round action to prepare a flask of oil with a fuse, forget about it. You're not building a Molotov Cocktail out of your oil flask. You're going to break it onto your enemy so the heat from alchemist's fire can ignite the oil.

An oil of magic weapon and bless weapon might save you if you run into DR/magic or DR/Evil. These cost 50gp per oil. If you can cast these spells yourself, get scrolls instead.

While getting HP might save your character's life, getting ability damage back can make a difference for your party. Lesser restoration helps here. If you need to use the spell in a battle, drink a potion. Don't use a scroll, a wand or cast the spell yourself. Drinking the potion is a standard action, but casting the spell takes three rounds.

Protip: Buy your lesser restorations from paladins. Paladins get the spell at 1st spell level and sell them dirt cheap. A scroll costs 25gp and a potion/oil costs 50gp.

While we're talking about paladins and their spell lists, rangers deserve a special mention. If you need resist energy cheaply, look there. Their resist energy is cast as a 1st level spell, thus making potions, scrolls, and wands cheaper than those made by clerics and druids. Actually, after you have been on a few adventures, you might want to invest in a few scrolls, just in case.

If an adventure looks like it might have something to do with poison, get a vial of antitoxin.

After this you should save to buy your combat gear like armor and weapons, if you use any. Remember to have a few weapons so you can do all three kinds of damage (bludgeoning, piercing and slashing). Also, get a weapon made of cold iron and another made of silver. These will help you get through any DR your enemies might possess.

cheapskate tip: Club costs nothing, does 1d6 bludgeoning damage for medium creatures and can be thrown.

When you've accumulated your first 9 prestige points, you can move from scrolls to wands. When you do, don't sell the scrolls.

Wands are cheaper than scrolls per charge, and thus cure light wounds, infernal healing, lesser restoration and resist energy wands will most likely be of some use to you. Resist energy and lesser restoration might be used too rarely for some characters to justify buying a wand full of them. If you think you don't need them, pack a few scrolls or potions just in case anyway. A wand of magic weapon will be pretty pointless, because you should invest in a real magic weapon instead of a wand.

If you have anything to add, feel free to do so. Help this thread keep new pathfinders alive.

Edits: OP's grammar sucks.

udalrich wrote:
Assuming you [snip] wanted to houserule a way to do it, what would you set the DC at? Something like 20 + caster level or 15 + 3*spell level seems reasonable to me. I like the last one, since it means that rogues can't keep up with actual casters in their ability to recharge a staff, but can still do it.

I'd houserule that you have to be an artificer and spend your infusions instead of spells in addition to succeeding on a UMD check to use the staff.

I did the closest comparison. Damage to damage. Apples to Apples.

Mahrdol wrote:

so you have an ape with 24 str 2 attacks a round with a large great sword and a bite attack that can basically control all the squares 10' around him with stand still. He also has 25+ ac

Now the real fun. animal growth!

So you have a huge ape wrecking machine with 32 str and a huge great sword with 15 foot reach attacking with +17/+12 to hit and damaging for 4-24+16 damage 2x a round and that don't include magic items. Not to shabby...if I am correct in my assumptions and math...I see a massive influx of ape animal companions in the near future...

Needs less greatsword and more reach weapon + standstill.

30' threatened area where enemies just don't move is hard to beat.

Edit: Unfortunately, this actually doesn't work as well as I'd hoped. Replace reach weapon with guisarme and tripping will work as well.

kitenerd wrote:

Am i the only one who thinks this is broken???

Last night the party's 6th level ranger was firing 4 arrows per round at his favored enemies and (assuming they all hit, and he is very good, so most did) doing 4d8+4(str)+16(favored enemy) damage - that is an AVERAGE of 36 point of damage per round for a 6th level character!!! - This is in a campaign where most of his encounters will be against his favored enemy (Second Darkness...). He was an unstoppable killing machine and had more kills than the rest of the party combined.

I don't mind the change in action type, or the fact that it can be combined with rapid shot, but why was the -4 removed????

It's powerful, yes. But broken? Depends on where you set the average power level. Unfortunately, now that there's virtually no way to get any decent damage on a single attack compared to a full attack, archers will be married to their full attacks and 5' steps.

Ranger archers doubly so, since they can take improved precise shot at 6th level and forget about cover and concealment. They don't have to move around to get that clear shot when they can just full attack round after round after round.

james maissen wrote:
In general a metamagic'd spell bumped up the proper levels is in keeping with a normal spell of that level, so why have a lower DC? There doesn't really seem to be a game balance reason for this that I'm seeing.

Simple example: Empowered Fireball vs cone of cold at caster level 10.

Empowered fireball (5th level slot) at caster level 10 deals 10d6 * 1.5 This is roughly the same as 15d6.

A Cone of cold (5th level slot) at caster level 10 deals 10d6 points of damage.

ohako wrote:
Throwing a two-handed improvised weapon takes a full-round action, so that's out. There don't seem to be any actual two-handed weapons that can be thrown at all so far.

Spear. Does 1d8 damage, but is a two handed thrown weapon with a 20 ft. range increment.

Edit: But throwing one is still a full round action.

A question about enchanting a wizard's bonded object.

A wizard wants to make his bonded ring into a ring of freedom of movement (market price: 40 000 gp, creation cost 20 000 gp). Let's assume he is sufficiently high level to do so and would succeed on any checks required, so core rules don't get in the way of this question. How much maximum prestige award does he require, if any?

a) No maximum prestige award required, because he's making it himself instead of buying from somewhere else.

b) Enough maximum prestige award points to buy an item worth the ring's creation cost (36 in this case to get access to items worth less than 23 000 gp), or none if he could buy it from a recent scenario chronicle.

c) Enough maximum prestige award points to buy an item even worth the ring's market price (45 in this case to get access to items worth less than 41 000 gp), or none if he could buy it from a recent scenario chronicle.

d) Something else, what?

Alizor wrote:
In regards to this, what if your other character became a "pregen" for the session? I.E. you wouldn't get a reward, however there wouldn't be a cost either.

There's a backside to this too. If there is no cost, you can go crazy with all the scrolls, potions and wands your character has. In effect, you could spend all your money on single use items and become a powerhouse for the scenario that has no effect on your character. You can also act more suicidal if you want to without any fear of permanent death. This will reduce the danger others should face in the scenario.

While actual pregens face a bit of the same problem, they don't have the resources to pull this off as well as player made characters, because most of their wealth is spent on their permanent items.

Quijenoth wrote:
Back onto the discussion, I would rule that metamagic feats work on spells of 1st level and higher. Cantrips are "like" spells of 0-level but aren't actually 0 level spells. At no point does a metamagic feat refer to it having an effect on a cantrip, only on spells.

Interesting house rule. Cantrips would be something like like Beta's spell-like ability cantrips, except with components?

Quijenoth wrote:
*throws in the Alchemist's fire and runs for cover* >:)

Sorry, doesn't work. I've cast resist energy (fire) to survive the flames here. :P

James Jacobs wrote:
The rules as intended and as they should be interpreted are that you only get to cast 0 level spells at will. Once they're prepared with higher level spell slots, they follow all the rules for how higher level spell slots work.

But that's the core of this argument. I'm arguing that spell slots follow the same rules all the time, and the unlimited metamagic cantrips is a feature of cantrips being zero level spells, not cast from zero level slots. Obviously it's not how it was intended, but as this thread shows, an argument can be made that it works regardless.

A bit of errata would be nice to bury this argument for good.

Dracon wrote:
I have seen perfect proof of both sides here, Im sorry but you are not the only one who has posted proof validating their viewpoint from the rules. Dismissing out of hand is not fair to any of the previous posters simply because it doesnt fit your view of the ruling.

I wasn't responding to the entire thread. I was responding to one specific poster who happened to leave proof of his claims out of his post.

Others have made their cases better than just stating how they think things are. Simply stating how they are does not bring anything new into this discussion. Having proof to back it up does.

Also, the sorcerers don't have 0-level slots is totally relevant to this discussion. If they don't have 0-level slots, cantrips can't be spell slots. If they're not spell slots, they're the spells themselves. And even though they're spells, they have this little bit of rules stating that they "do not consume any slots and may be used again"

Edit: DigMarx, Is it cool to insult people on the internet?

Yes, that's right.

If you want to have an explanation for that in game, think of it as channeling originating from your (un)holy symbol.

If channel energy was a spell you'd have to pick an intersection, because it targets an area.

It's probably best to assume it functions according to those rules.

Edit: wait a minute. Channeling causes a burst, which is defined to target a grid intersection.

Diego Winterborg wrote:

Pardon if anyone thinks I am hijacking the topic:

Q3. As far as I recall from reading the rules specialist wizards are not required to learn any spells from their specialty school. That does not seem right to me.
Am I missing something?


These rules were hidden in magic chapter.

prd wrote:

Adding Spells to a Wizard's Spellbook

Wizards can add new spells to their spellbooks through several methods. A wizard can only learn new spells that belong to the wizard spell lists.

Spells Gained at a New Level: Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, he gains two spells of his choice to add to his spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels he can cast. If he has chosen to specialize in a school of magic, one of the two free spells must be from his specialty school.

LazarX wrote:
Dave Young 992 wrote:

All a player needs for his wizard to use a bastard sword is a feat, so he could be proficient with it at first level, if he wanted.

Two feats if he wants to use it one handed... one to get martial proficiency... the other to get the exotic one.

All you need is exotic proficiency. Once you have that martial prof is irrelevant. Also, you don't need martial prof. for exotic prof.

LazarX wrote:
Lehmuska wrote:
Dracon wrote:
Thanks you answered your own the cost of a higher level spell slot, so you can still cast a non meta magic cantrip all day but you lose a level 1 slot every time you cast the meta magic version.

Point out where I did that.

A cantrip has a property that says it's not expended when cast and can be used again.

A cantrip with metamagic is still a cantrip. It might take up some other spell slot, but it's a cantrip.

Therefore, a cantrip with metamagic is not expended when cast and may be used again.

Lets try some clarification. Essentially as a sorcerer you're not expending spells but spell slots. If you use metamagic on a cantrip, you are using a level 1 spell slot to cast it


LazarX wrote:
, which means you run out of level 1 spell slots after you shoot them all.

Well, no. Sorcerer is pretty clear about not having anything called a 0-level slot. Cantrips for a sorcerer say they don't consume any slots and can be used again.

LazarX wrote:

IF you're a wizard, you prepared it in a level 1 spell slot which you expend when it's cast so the issue doesn't come up at all.

Then again there's my houserule which says you can't metamagic cantrips or orisons period because they are not full complete spells. case closed.

See pages 1-4 of this thread for why empty words don't take this discussion anywhere. If you have any proof of your claims feel free to share them.

According to my reading of the rules, yes. A wizard needs int 10 + spell level to cast a spell, not use a spell slot of that level.

James Risner wrote:
Lehmuska wrote:
This does not change the level of the spell[/b], so the DC for saving throws against it does not go up.
That is the line that is being misinterpreted often (especially in the wonki "I get the benefits of Heighten for free if I combine with another metamagic like maximized heighten fireball for 6th level with 6th level DCs" crowd.)

A heightened spell is actually higher level, so this wouldn't work in any case.

And now to tie this post into metamagic cantrip discussion:
Actually, even following my interpretation of rules (cantrip is a 0-level spell, not a 0-level spell slot) a heightened cantrip wouldn't be a 0-level spell anymore.

hogarth wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, that quote is the last nail in the coffin; if a metamagicked cantrip is cast as a higher level spell, then it's not being cast as a cantrip any more. YMMV, of course.

You might want to read the context of that quote. It talks of different types of feats. Later on in metamagic section rules concerning metamagic are actually explained.

Actually, I'll provide the context for you.

PRD wrote:

Types of Feats

Some feats are general, meaning that no special rules govern them as a group. Others are item creation feats, which allow characters to create magic items of all sorts. A metamagic feat lets a spellcaster prepare and cast a spell with greater effect, albeit as if the spell were of a higher spell level than it actually is.

Then it talks about combat, item creation and critical feats in depth. After that, it talks about metamagic feats more than just giving a single sentence description of what metamagic is like. That description was quoted in my previous post.

Dracon wrote:
Epic Meepo wrote:
PRD wrote:
In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast as a higher-level spell. [Emphasis mine.]

So a cantrip affected with metamagic is cast as if it were a higher-level spell, even though it otherwise operates at it original level.

But a spell that counts as something other than 0-level when being cast doesn't count as a 0-level spell being cast, so the benefits of the cantrip class ability don't apply.
Did people miss this post? I can see it plain as day in plain english..."prepared and cast as a higher level spell" so therefore as Epic Meepo aint a cantrip when cast therefore the rule of unlimited doesnt apply.

This quote was in the section that tells us what different types of feats are.

When we move on to what metamagic feats actually are and how they work, we'll see this:

prd wrote:

Metamagic Feats

As a spellcaster's knowledge of magic grows, he can learn to cast spells in ways slightly different from the norm. Preparing and casting a spell in such a way is harder than normal but, thanks to metamagic feats, is at least possible. Spells modified by a metamagic feat use a spell slot higher than normal. This does not change the level of the spell, so the DC for saving throws against it does not go up.

IMO, this part of rules is a better source for definition of metamagic.

[Edit], because some of the quote tags were messed up.[/edit]

Fake Healer wrote:
Ah, didn't notice that change in PRPG. That is ridiculous.

No change, that's how it was like in 3.5

Hydro wrote:
If you're allowing this, you should also allow a 1st level pearl of power to restore that quickened magic missile. I think it's an intentional misreading either way, but it's your call.

Pearl of power makes a reference to spells per day. It's a different situation from cantrips.

Well, yes. Pounce was an example of how ridiculous it is when your full attack is more accurate than a single attack.

Yes. Channel Smite can be used before any melee attack roll, assuming you can spend your swift action.

A melee attack roll is an attack roll that's done in melee, and touch attacks are done in melee.

neceros wrote:

Multiclass into... STOP. You're done. If your solution is to multiclass, you've failed.


Read the whole thing before jumping to knee-jerk conclusions. Two of the ways mentioned have nothing to do with multiclass. Besides, multiclassing gets you pounce and that's what was asked. This being the case, bringing up multiclassing does not mean I've failed.

Besides, what exactly is wrong with multiclassing? It's a viable game mechanic to make unique characters.

Edit: Also, 3.5 splatbooks are filled with ways to gain pounce without polymorphing.

I'm no english professor, but I don't think that "Each of these can be activated as a swift action" part can be read in two ways.

Unless that is the case, it should tell us how the "In addition..." part is supposed to be read.

cmaczkow wrote:
So, if I have a ring of wizardry I, does that mean I get to cast twice my number of first level spell slots worth of empowered maximized magic missiles? Because, hey, it's still a first level spell, right? And spell slots are different from spell levels...

Ring of Wizardry refers specifically to spells per day (or spell slots, as I've called them in this thread), not spells themselves.

Not anymore. That was changed from beta.

If swarms were immune to entangled condition or speed reduction fro difficult terrain, that subtype would say so, like elemental subtype says that elementals are immune to stunning.

No mention of immunity to entangling or difficult terrain.

@WelbyBumpus: One problem with that. Heighten says that the spell has a higher spell level than normal, so it's possible a spell can't be heightened by 0 levels.

Let's see what Swarm Traits are.

Preview Bestiary wrote:

Swarm Traits: A swarm has no clear front or back and no

discernable anatomy, so it is not subject to critical hits or flanking. A swarm made up of Tiny creatures takes half damage from slashing and piercing weapons. A swarm composed of Fine or Diminutive creatures is immune to all weapon damage. Reducing a swarm to 0 hit points or less causes it to break up, though damage taken until that point does not degrade its ability to attack or resist attack. Swarms are never staggered or reduced to a dying state by damage. Also, they cannot be tripped, grappled, or bull rushed, and they cannot grapple an opponent.

A swarm is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of mindaffecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms) if the swarm has an Intelligence score and a hive mind. A swarm takes half again as much damage (+50%) from spells or effects that affect an area, such as splash weapons and many evocation spells.

Swarms made up of Diminutive or Fine creatures are susceptible to high winds, such as those created by a gust of wind spell. For purposes of determining the effects of wind on a swarm, treat the swarm as a creature of the same size as its constituent creatures. A swarm rendered unconscious by means of nonlethal damage becomes disorganized and dispersed, and does not reform until its hit points exceed its nonlethal damage.

There's nothing here about entangle, so they can be entangled.

Hydro wrote:
Lehmuska wrote:
I see a lot of statements claiming that a spell is the same thing as a spell per day (or spell slot), but no supporting evidence. Could you perhaps provide me with some?
Can you provide any text supporting the idea that it isn't?

I think I've done so already.

That's correct.

Navdi wrote:
Wizards copying spells into their spellbooks from scrolls found during scenarios or from the spellbooks of other wizards (PC or NPC).

This has been answered already.

Wizards can copy spells from each other, and scrolls don't have to be purchased in order to scribe them. Scribing costs have to be paid.


I think we need some place to put all these questions and answers so that we don't have to go through a nine page thread to find them.

@Hogarth: Yeah. quickened acid splash for preventing regeneration is the only one I can come up with that actually does anything at all after enemies have more than 4 HD.

Even that I can only see sorcerers doing. No wizard worth his salt will waste a 4th level slot to have at-will swift action acid splashs.

Fake Healer wrote:
Lehmuska wrote:
Yeah. Only casters can throw several two-handed weapons in one round.

Yeah, but each one is only doing 1d6 damage. Same as most arcanist's damage spells.


PRD wrote:

Violent Thrust: Alternatively, the spell energy can be spent in a single round. You can hurl one object or creature per caster level (maximum 15) that are within range and all within 10 feet of each other toward any target within 10 feet per level of all the objects. You can hurl up to a total weight of 25 pounds per caster level (maximum 375 pounds at 15th level).

You must succeed on attack rolls (one per creature or object thrown) to hit the target with the items, using your base attack bonus + your Intelligence modifier (if a wizard) or Charisma modifier (if a sorcerer). Weapons cause standard damage (with no Strength bonus; note that arrows or bolts deal damage as daggers of their size when used in this manner). Other objects cause damage ranging from 1 point per 25 pounds (for less dangerous objects) to 1d6 points of damage per 25 pounds (for hard, dense objects). Objects and creatures that miss their target land in a square adjacent to the target.

Well, enough thread derail for now.

That's interesting. I seem to recall something about me being "able to use my existing library of 3.5 products" if I switch from 3.5 to PFRPG.

Diego Winterborg wrote:
Lehmuska wrote:

See the absurdity that happens when you get pounce to your monk.

How did your monk get the Pounce ability?

Let's see. Multiclass into druid and wildshape, get a wizard to cast polymorph, multiclass into wizard and cast beast shape II, use beast shape II from a scroll with UMD. Those were only using the core rulebook.

Yeah. Only casters can throw several two-handed weapons in one round.

Diego Winterborg wrote:
And actually your point goes both ways - why are people so willing to twist and bend the system until it breaks in order to get a very limited advantage? At best I find it infantile and af worst I consider they might have a dubious agenda.

Dude, if we pretend there's no problems in the rules, they'll never get fixed. I consider it infantile to close your eyes and refuse to see the problem.

Edit: @Galnörag, This wasn't powerful until post 62. Then it became problematic.

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