What I am saying is that you claim that many SCs will be faced by a character without a trained skill and I say yes, almost all will be faced by a character with a trained skill and good stat since it doesn't really take much to cover all circumstances.
And what I'm saying is if they do that then they should be facing a hard DC. One that is statistically equivalent to Mod -5 on the table in the linked page. Unless your DM chooses to use the errata as a reason to tone down the checks to medium, but why would he feel compelled to throw the players a bone if they are trying this? Default for this little gimmick is a Hard DC.
Not that this will even work. Go through the Scales of War AP with this 'plan' on how your going to beat all the Skill Challenges and your going to find that you fail a lot of Skill Challenges. Not every character has an 18 in Charisma and training in diplomacy, furthermore each Skill Challenge is a unique design. Even social ones are not beatable simply by making diplomacy checks over and over again.
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Word on the street is, there still isn't a full copy of the Eberron Player's Guide up anywhere. Granted, only a matter of time, I would imagine, but I do think that's rather telling, considering Scott is dead on about previous release speeds
A little over 2 odd hours after your post and I can tell you there are now numerous copies availble via illegal means.
So by removing the pdf's WotC have given themselves a huge 2-3 hours of a head start on the pirates. Nice, and in exchange they only had to annoy a large number of their (previous) customers.
Marketing coup if you ask me...
S.
Word on the street is, there still isn't a full copy of the Eberron Player's Guide up anywhere. Granted, only a matter of time, I would imagine, but I do think that's rather telling, considering Scott is dead on about previous release speedsA little over 2 odd hours after your post and I can tell you there are now numerous copies availble via illegal means.
So by removing the pdf's WotC have given themselves a huge 2-3 hours of a head start on the pirates. Nice, and in exchange they only had to annoy a large number of their (previous) customers.
Marketing coup if you ask me...
S.
It was released a month ago. I am not sure where you are getting 2-3 hours.
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It was released a month ago. I am not sure where you are getting 2-3 hours.Word on the street is, there still isn't a full copy of the Eberron Player's Guide up anywhere. Granted, only a matter of time, I would imagine, but I do think that's rather telling, considering Scott is dead on about previous release speedsA little over 2 odd hours after your post and I can tell you there are now numerous copies availble via illegal means.
So by removing the pdf's WotC have given themselves a huge 2-3 hours of a head start on the pirates. Nice, and in exchange they only had to annoy a large number of their (previous) customers.
Marketing coup if you ask me...
S.
I was basing that on the previous poster time of posting, when they assert that word was no illegal downloads availble so I checked to see if this was true and found many copies available. So if none were available at the time of the previous posters post it stands to reason that they appeared sometime between then and when I checked/posted... It wasn't meant to be an official timing, just pointing out that I doubted the "word of the street" and I also doubt that WotC's move will protect their IP, just push it even more "underground".
S.
We would appreciate it if folks would refrain from discussing where to obtain pirated materials. Thank you.
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We would appreciate it if folks would refrain from discussing where to obtain pirated materials. Thank you.
No problem, the conversation was making me nervous. For the record my last post <now deleted> was to say that illegal downloads do nothing to help the community in the long run.
Buy the books guys!
Either way, then, I have not come across a pirated copy of the Eberron Player's Guide, and it's been weeks since its release. The pirating community has become scared or lazy (or both), and as a result the books are not being pirated. This is a huge difference from the assertions of many that pulling the PDFs would do nothing to curb piracy.
Whether or not you agree with WotC's decision, the fact that it's put such a huge wrench in pirates' plans is testament to its effectiveness.
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Whether or not you agree with WotC's decision, the fact that it's put such a huge wrench in pirates' plans is testament to its effectiveness.
Once again we devolve into the unquantifiable, and in this case also continue to discuss an issue which the owners of this board have quite clearly stated is NOT a topic suitable for here. How about we show them some respect and move on to bagging each other under the banner of another aspect we like/dislike about 3e/4e?
S.
Whether or not you agree with WotC's decision, the fact that it's put such a huge wrench in pirates' plans is testament to its effectiveness.Once again we devolve into the unquantifiable, and in this case also continue to discuss an issue which the owners of this board have quite clearly stated is NOT a topic suitable for here.
Did they say somewhere that we weren't allowed to discuss the impact of piracy on the game industry? All Ross cautioned against was discussing where you could obtain pirated material.
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Whether or not you agree with WotC's decision, the fact that it's put such a huge wrench in pirates' plans is testament to its effectiveness.
Actually, there's way too many other conditional modifers and variables that could account for something like the Eberron Player's Guide not being available more rapidly.
- The Player's Guide isn't a high demand item so it's taking it's time to "get to market". Common with music and movies. Getting the next Harry Potter first is a coup ... the EPG, not so much.
- The majority of pirates may not be RPG players, non-market shaking items like secondary player accessories (instead of say, the core books) don't carry alot of bragging rights amongst the pirates.
- Outside influences may be taking precedence (witness the sudden explosion of everything Michael Jackson on the torrent sites after his demise).
- Demand for RPG torrents in general may be low.
- Sites like <self edited, just in case.> legitimate after their sale may be impacting the copyrighted material going online.
- The shutting down of ISP's like Pricewert by the FTC may have impacted a number of file sharing locations.
The list could go on, and I think attributing WotC's efforts to curtail piracy where companies far wiser, larger and richer have failed is being a bit optimistic.
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Did they say somewhere that we weren't allowed to discuss the impact of piracy on the game industry? All Ross cautioned against was discussing where you could obtain pirated material.Whether or not you agree with WotC's decision, the fact that it's put such a huge wrench in pirates' plans is testament to its effectiveness.Once again we devolve into the unquantifiable, and in this case also continue to discuss an issue which the owners of this board have quite clearly stated is NOT a topic suitable for here.
Then you go and post in such away where we would have to say of course you are are right because the only way to show you are in error is to breach the rules set down about discussing piracy and the howto.
If you have data, say from data traffic showing a decrease in piracy of pdf's or other evidence (not "well I didn't see it therefore it doesn't exist") I would hazard a guess the entire music/film/pdf industry would be amazed to hear of the WotC method. Alternatively perhaps you could replace fact with in my opinion? You are most welcome to say that it is I that am in error of course (and I intend to present NO evidence either way - just expressing my experience), all I'm questioning is the terms you used to discribe something that would only seem to encompass your experience.
Ok then, "piracy is bad for any company in terms of sales". Anyone think of something else that should be added?
Nice one,
S.
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Actually, there's way too many other conditional modifers and variables that could account for something like the Eberron Player's Guide not being available more rapidly.
Good points, you missed "the book may be so awful that it would waste a pirates time..." ;)
S.
PS: Just poking now... (sorry can't stay serious for too long, causes wrinkles I hear - although I have no data to support this and neither can I remember who told me - it may have been my cat?).
Actually, there's way too many other conditional modifers and variables that could account for something like the Eberron Player's Guide not being available more rapidly.Good points, you missed "the book may be so awful that it would waste a pirates time..." ;)
S.
PS: Just poking now... (sorry can't stay serious for too long, causes wrinkles I hear - although I have no data to support this and neither can I remember who told me - it may have been my cat?).
Not putting out new PDFs of new books might have had an impact, or might not have. But pulling old PDFs of 3E like Complete Arcane did not, in any way, prevent piracy of new 4E books. Anyone who claims that is wrong.
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Good points, you missed "the book may be so awful that it would waste a pirates time..." ;)
S.
PS: Just poking now... (sorry can't stay serious for too long, causes wrinkles I hear - although I have no data to support this and neither can I remember who told me - it may have been my cat?).
Hehe ... too true. Although, I never underestimate the ability of the quantity crap to rise above the quantity of quality.
I just think there's a serious lack of appreciation on these boards for what actually motivates the pirates (and before anyone throws the blame my way, I spent 7 years working with law enforcement tracking them down, so bite me, with the whole 'you're one of them crap lines') - there's no glory in things like the EPG.
There's no ratio bragging rights, no first to market recognition. No seed dominance competition, etc. No INTERNALS who are going to care.
The EBG is small fish compared to trying to earn the bragging rights of getting Watchmen ripped a month early, or whatever. The Core Books were another matter entirely.
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Not putting out new PDFs of new books might have had an impact, or might not have. But pulling old PDFs of 3E like Complete Arcane did not, in any way, prevent piracy of new 4E books. Anyone who claims that is wrong.
Yuppers. Pulling Lexus from the market doesn't stop the Toyota Camry from being stolen.
Poor analogy, but the reasoning is the same.
Not putting out new PDFs of new books might have had an impact, or might not have. But pulling old PDFs of 3E like Complete Arcane did not, in any way, prevent piracy of new 4E books. Anyone who claims that is wrong.Yuppers. Pulling Lexus from the market doesn't stop the Toyota Camry from being stolen.
Poor analogy, but the reasoning is the same.
A better analogy may be that pulling reproductions of the Corvette won't stop people from making Corvette body conversion kits (i.e., to make their Camry look like a Corvette).
Also, the pulling of the old material runs against financial sense. It's not going to stop piracy of the old material; the hard-copies and PDFs are already out there. Where WotC was making at least a small profit from the old material being resold as PDFs (not having access to the sales numbers), they are now making $0 profit from that material. For this to make financial sense, there are two scenarios that I can think of: 1) WotC is dropping support for old material to move people toward the new, supported system (i.e., like MicroSoft) or 2) WotC will release the material in a different format or under a different method (i.e., as part of the DI or through Kindle).
As the music and movie industries have already found, piracy can't be stopped by draconian measures. The only way to minimize piracy is to offer reasonably priced and conveniently formatted material (iTunes, NetFlix, etc.). The majority of people are willing to pay for what they want, as long as it's not outrageous; the die-hard pirate types are never going to be good customers anyway.
As the music and movie industries have already found, piracy can't be stopped by draconian measures.
</debate>
As the music and movie industries have already found, piracy can't be stopped by draconian measures.</debate>
"Stopped."
They can push it further underground, make it more difficult, etc. However, the more draconian the measures, the more costly it is for the company to implement and the more inconvenient it becomes for legitimate customers (either obviously, in the case of proprietary formats, etc., or inobviously, like the Sony root-kits or added product costs). IMO, the best strategy for a company is to 1) assume that some amount of piracy is inevitable no matter what they do, 2) produce a quality product at a reasonable price to draw the maximum number of legitimate customers, 3) build up customer loyalty so that they are more willing to purchase the company's product instead of obtaining pirated material, and 4) work with law enforcement agencies to go after the distributors of pirated material (not the 12-year-olds or grandmothers who download 100-200 songs; that just builds sympathy for the accused and makes the company seem cruel; let the small fry remove the content and pay a fine).
One thing to remember is that the music and movie industries have been fighting against piracy since the invention of the cassette recorder and videotape. They were trying to prevent "home taping" of the radio for specific songs and recording/copying shows (or even VCR to VCR copies of rented movies) long before digital media and the Internet were a concern. Modern technology has just made the copying and distribution easier.
"Stopped."
They can push it further underground, make it more difficult, etc. However, the more draconian the measures, the more costly it is for the company to implement and the more inconvenient it becomes for legitimate customers (either obviously, in the case of proprietary formats, etc., or inobviously, like the Sony root-kits or added product costs). IMO, the best strategy for a company is to 1) assume that some amount of piracy is inevitable no matter what they do, 2) produce a quality product at a reasonable price to draw the maximum number of legitimate customers, 3) build up customer loyalty so that they are more willing to purchase the company's product instead of obtaining pirated material, and 4) work with law enforcement agencies to go after the distributors of pirated material (not the 12-year-olds or grandmothers who download 100-200 songs; that just builds sympathy for the accused and makes the company seem cruel; let the small fry remove the content and pay a fine).
One thing to remember is that the music and movie industries have been fighting against piracy since the invention of the cassette recorder and videotape. They were trying to prevent "home taping" of the radio for specific songs and recording/copying shows (or even VCR to VCR copies of rented movies) long before digital media and the Internet were a concern.
Hmmm...maybe this didn't come across, but I was agreeing with you...
;-)
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Also, the pulling of the old material runs against financial sense. It's not going to stop piracy of the old material; the hard-copies and PDFs are already out there. Where WotC was making at least a small profit from the old material being resold as PDFs (not having access to the sales numbers), they are now making $0 profit from that material. For this to make financial sense, there are two scenarios that I can think of: 1) WotC is dropping support for old material to move people toward the new, supported system (i.e., like MicroSoft) or 2) WotC will release the material in a different format or under a different method (i.e., as part of the DI or through Kindle).
And that's why I have to file it under 'stupidity' rather than 'malice'. They (meaning WotC) lost a revenue stream of unknown size, restricting a product there is a demand for. Without a replacement ready to use your MicroSoft analogy, it would be like pulling XP without having Vista ready. (ignore for the moment 'snarky vista jokes' I've never had an issue with the OS on my computer)
If they Kindle the old PDFs (or release new info on Kindle) it limits the market even more for electronic media buyers, And there's no reason to assume that the kindle would be more resistant than PDFs.
Never attribute to malice or stupidity what you can attribute to stupid malice... or malicious stupidity.
If they Kindle the old PDFsSorry for a dumb question, but what is Kindle?
S.
The root of all evil*.
*The fact that I own a bookstore might bias me somewhat.
If they Kindle the old PDFsSorry for a dumb question, but what is Kindle?
S.
A reader for electronic books from Amazon.
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A reader for electronic books from Amazon.If they Kindle the old PDFsSorry for a dumb question, but what is Kindle?
S.
As they say "Just because you can do a thing, doesn't mean you should do a thing".
I hope the next sentient species after us has a better luck than ours... <sigh>
S.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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A reader for electronic books from Amazon.If they Kindle the old PDFsSorry for a dumb question, but what is Kindle?
S.
As they say "Just because you can do a thing, doesn't mean you should do a thing".
I hope the next sentient species after us has a better luck than ours... <sigh>
S.
Yes, I can see it now. First the Kindle, then one that reads to you. Then one that rubs your shoulders while reading to you...
...Then Cylons!
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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I am 100% sure that pulling the old (and already pirated) PDFs did not have any effect on the time pirates have to spend to pirate new PDFs. Stopping the release of new PDFs might affect that, but thatr's, as others are so fond of pointing out, just speculation.
I'm sorry, did I make that claim? Because I'm pretty sure that's nowhere near what I said in my post. I thought I was merely pointing out that Scott was factually correct, pulling the PDFs has delayed the release of new material.
Don't believe me? Check the date of EPG's release with the date it finally hit the pirate sites. Compare with that with PHB2.
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Don't believe me? Check the date of EPG's release with the date it finally hit the pirate sites. Compare with that with PHB2.
Totally irrelevant.
The market for PHB2 is in the millions. The market for the EPG would be lucky to hit a quarter of that. Being the distributor to get the PHB2 out first to seeders is a coup, the EPG is not.
Just because one element of something is popular doesn't mean an associated element is.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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A little over 2 odd hours after your post and I can tell you there are now numerous copies availble via illegal means.
Did you check them? I don't know where you looked (and don't want to talk about it on this board, for obvious reasons) but I do know for a fact there were a lot of fake copies flying around. One website in particular is know for repackaging random pdfs as the newest 4e book. Not calling BS, just saying, as far as I could tell, it wasn't up yet, and I consider myself to be at least semi-"in the know", as it were.
Totally irrelevant.The market for PHB2 is in the millions. The market for the EPG would be lucky to hit a quarter of that. Being the distributor to get the PHB2 out first to seeders is a coup, the EPG is not.
Just because one element of something is popular doesn't mean an associated element is.
Alright, compare EPG to Open Grave then. Open Grave was up within a day of its release. In fact, what I'm getting at is, that pretty much every 4e book up until they pulled the pdfs was available within a day of its release, including adventures. Now it takes two weeks.
Granted, its always possible that the items on the list you posted farther up had an effect, but most of those were in place prior to them pulling the pdfs, and I never saw that they made a difference.
I should also point out that I'm not disagreeing with you guys that it was a stupid move to pull the pdfs. I think its possible they might squeeze a few more pennies out the more impatient would-be pirates, but I don't think that will offset the loss of sales from their older products. Overall, all they've done is piss people off, and that's a bad business call.
I just wanted to chime in and say, yes, it has had an effect, its slowed the piracy down considerably. For good or ill, they've done something.
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I just wanted to chime in and say, yes, it has had an effect, its slowed the piracy down considerably. For good or ill, they've done something.
For arguments sake let's say this is true for newer 4e products. How does the pulling of the 3e/3.5e pdf's stop any piracy? That horse as already bolted. So WotC could do what they did and get no money yet not in anyway stop the spread of 3e products and potentially to force (and I say force) some people who otherwise would not wish to do an illegal thing to do an illegal thing. If by removing 3e pdf's they get even one person to use illegal means to gain 3e material then WotC has done a huge dis-service to anti-piracy on the net. You back people into corners they are more likely to do out of character things. So WotC perhaps did the right thing for 4e (time will tell*), but I am darn sure it was not the right thing for there 3e products. If 3e and 4e weren't so different then I can see how the "play our new game" would work. 4e is SO different from 3e that it really comes across as "you WILL play our new game - like it or not".
S.
*Making piracy "slower" is not a win, seriously 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day, 1 week? It still will be done. Sticks don't work you need carrots. Perhaps each book you buy gives you $10 off your D&D Insider subscription? D&D Insider for all people say is a tact-on it's not the core product, that is the books. Throwing people a bone in that area really shouldn't be an issue. People like free stuff. Make those who (wrongly) choose to pirate stuff think "hmmmm, I'm really missing out by getting my material this way".
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I just wanted to chime in and say, yes, it has had an effect, its slowed the piracy down considerably. For good or ill, they've done something.
Now -that- I don't dispute.
I just think that there's too many attempts at direct corrolation, when there's evidence in other industries far larger, that the tactics WotC used will have very little direct effect on piracy.
Having said that, here's what we know.
1) The PDFs that hit the torrent sites, were not pirates, they were leaks. There's a significant difference there.
2) The leak was closed, which led to a reduction in the speed with which those materials hit the pirate sites.
3) We still didn't stop the pirates.
I think what we're really missing here is a much more basic fact. Without a "leak" the market viability of the pirates chasing after RPG materials to get up on the sites is effectively nil.
In other words, the pirates don't give a **** about RPG materials, in light of trying to get the next Hollywood blockbuster up online.
You don't see entire international organizations online like you do in the Warez or Rip scene, trying to get RPGs up to the masses.
What you do see is little Joe Nobody, scanning his book for his own convenience, which gets put into a torrent, which gets distributed by his friend, who got it for free.
My suspicion is if you could get the Paizo folks to answer about how many of their "pirated" material was put online "by accident", the number is probably pretty high, compared to those who actively put it up as a "pirate".
Anyhow - YMMV ;)
I should also point out that I'm not disagreeing with you guys that it was a stupid move to pull the pdfs. I think its possible they might squeeze a few more pennies out the more impatient would-be pirates, but I don't think that will offset the loss of sales from their older products. Overall, all they've done is piss people off, and that's a bad business call.
Are you really so sure? How many of those 3E (or earlier?) pdfs do you really think they sold? How many more 4E books will they sell by pushing the pirated copies back a week or more? I think simply assuming one is greater than the other without evidence is possibly missing a big piece of the puzzle here. And I'd expect WotC to have a far better grasp of what these numbers really are compared to anyone here ...
.../... And I'd expect WotC to have a far better grasp of what these numbers really are compared to anyone here ...
/tease mode on
That would be assuming WotC has a brain and is able to use it.
And from what we have seen in the recent years, if they had any, it's in a jar, like pickles. Cut from reality and sour.
The infamous fiasco of Gleemax clearly illustrated that.
/tease mode off
Was going to post something about Big Businesses which think that they know their market, but have decided to smurf instead.
People are going to pirate anyway and people love free stuff. So companies should just give away their products free. It will get pirated anyway so why charge for it. The only way to "beat" the pirates is to give it away first. Otherwise you are just "forcing" some people to pirate it. Ah, who are we kidding, even if it was given free, people would still pirate it (you mean I have to go to THEIR site, screw that!).
(sorry for the tease above, i just couldn't resist)
About piracy, we all know it is hurting the industry.
If someone steals an orange from a grocery store every morning, the shopkeeper might close one day.
If people steal too many books from a RPG company, the company might close, and the game will die.
If i want something i buy it. If i can't afford it, then either i save to buy it later or i just forget it.
The best way to fight piracy is not to be part of it. Even if you see stuff online on some torrents, don't download it.
If you do you are a complice. A pirate. A thief. And that's not cool in the real life.
Electronic media is a reality now, so sticking fingers in ears and hoping a problem goes away is only a short term solution. :)
Exactly.
As for removing pdf's from sale for old editions I think that just had to happen once they made the decision to remove 4th Edition pdf's.
Exactly.
Wow, I sound like a broken record. Much like this thread. ;-)
I am 100% sure that pulling the old (and already pirated) PDFs did not have any effect on the time pirates have to spend to pirate new PDFs. Stopping the release of new PDFs might affect that, but thatr's, as others are so fond of pointing out, just speculation.I'm sorry, did I make that claim? Because I'm pretty sure that's nowhere near what I said in my post. I thought I was merely pointing out that Scott was factually correct, pulling the PDFs has delayed the release of new material.
Don't believe me? Check the date of EPG's release with the date it finally hit the pirate sites. Compare with that with PHB2.
Do you really think that pulling 3E material did anything to delay piracy of 4E material?
Stuff about Skill Challenges...
You are retreading old ground. I covered this a few pages ago... basically using the "Sound Math" that was presented and showing how it wasn't accurate if you used suggestions from the DMG. Actually I didn't even go into suggestions from other sources (Dragon), just the DMG. But alas, it was ignored.
I got the same thing.stuffsThat's odd I checked the link and all I got was two charts, with verbage before and after that went into why the math wasn't so great. The first chart was the original system for 4e from what I understand and the 2nd chart was a revised offering by WotC.
I didn't see any "Hate speech" towards either company just charts math and the thought that the skill challenge system didn't work, with the reasoning provide that if you are skilled you'll pass 100% of the time and if you aren't you might not, and the odds of you not passing increase largely if the challenge is a "long" challenge (I haven't played 4e so I'm not sure what the verbage on the charts at the top means completely, or the difference between a "long" and "short" challenge... I can guesstimate but I'm not sure).
It was the link to me that I believe he is referring too and it begins on page 2 of The Gaming Den link that I was suggested to go to if I think I defended Skill Challenges.
Stuff about Skill Challenges...You are retreading old ground. I covered this a few pages ago... basically using the "Sound Math" that was presented and showing how it wasn't accurate if you used suggestions from the DMG. Actually I didn't even go into suggestions from other sources (Dragon), just the DMG. But alas, it was ignored.
You think you covered this. Doesn't make it real. Fact is that the rules for SCs do not work as intended. If you can add house rules to them and generally ignore the numbers that's not the same as using them.
And it's also a fact that the SC rules obviously were never playtested. Which kind of shows the importance anything but combat had in the developping process.
Stuff about Skill Challenges...You are retreading old ground. I covered this a few pages ago... basically using the "Sound Math" that was presented and showing how it wasn't accurate if you used suggestions from the DMG. Actually I didn't even go into suggestions from other sources (Dragon), just the DMG. But alas, it was ignored.You think you covered this. Doesn't make it real. Fact is that the rules for SCs do not work as intended. If you can add house rules to them and generally ignore the numbers that's not the same as using them.
And it's also a fact that the SC rules obviously were never playtested. Which kind of shows the importance anything but combat had in the developping process.
You keep saying that. But since I used the DMG and your math links to do the inaccuracy of the "hard math" argument and didn't include a SINGLE house rule then it appears that yes, I did cover it and it was real. You are wrong, but don't worry I have no illusions that you will ever admit it in your state of divorced reality.
For arguments sake let's say this is true for newer 4e products. How does the pulling of the 3e/3.5e pdf's stop any piracy?
It doesn't. It just criminalises people as they can either not get the stuff or get an illegal copy from the net.
And it should be quite clear that pulling the older PDFs were not about stopping piracy - that was just their excuse. Someone from wizards/hasbro even admitted that they had "other reasons" in some interview or other.
4e is SO different from 3e that it really comes across as "you WILL play our new game - like it or not".
Exactly. They went out of their way to make 4e different from 3e - they changed rules, they changed the worlds, they changed everything they could. And then they were doing their best to get 3e from the market: Pull pdfs, make those who want to support 4e sign a contract that will make them unable to support 3e ever again (even after the 4e license has been pulled) for those product lines....
Sticks don't work you need carrots.
Like selling the core rules as a 10$ PDF? But that would be completely batshit ;-)
For arguments sake let's say this is true for newer 4e products. How does the pulling of the 3e/3.5e pdf's stop any piracy?
It doesn't. It just criminalises people as they can either not get the stuff or get an illegal copy from the net.
And it should be quite clear that pulling the older PDFs were not about stopping piracy - that was just their excuse. Someone from wizards/hasbro even admitted that they had "other reasons" in some interview or other.
4e is SO different from 3e that it really comes across as "you WILL play our new game - like it or not".
Exactly. They went out of their way to make 4e different from 3e - they changed rules, they changed the worlds, they changed everything they could. And then they were doing their best to get 3e from the market: Pull pdfs, make those who want to support 4e sign a contract that will make them unable to support 3e ever again (even after the 4e license has been pulled) for those product lines....
Sticks don't work you need carrots.
Like selling the core rules as a 10$ PDF? But that would be completely batshit ;-)