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Please... could you cancel this preorder?
Golarion is a world I love...
but unfortunately the rules... well why would I need a new book, when I would not use it, not even half of it becuase the changes made are not to my liking...
don't get me wrong... i do believe Paizo DOES a wonderful work... I just didn't received even half of what I hopped for... everything else I can get it from the books I did already use for the campaigns I am plaing.
Thank you for everything I will keep watching the new books about Golarion... because the setting I DO love , so see you aroudn
Sorry to hear it Montalve - the channel changes were a bit rough. However I'm still seeing a lot of new things to explore as a cleric.
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the channeling is the least of things, but we are talking about the concept of the energy coming from the gods and being distributed around you... now nerfed... because the gods are such wymps that you only have 2 options for it to work...
but what did it to me... were the domains... have never gotten into the Bonus Spells, so the concept of the cleric receiving special blessings from their gods that doesn't count as spells but supernatural abilities... that was interesting... and it worked well with how the bloodlines and the schools were working... so having the possibility of this 2 having interesting thigns as special abilities... and the domains turning back to Bonus Spells is... well the methaphorical drop that forced the water out of the glass...
why?
->Spells, nerfed in 3.5, nerfed again in Beta... nerfed again in PFRPG... that is why I still use 3.0 Hanbook
->Feats... nerfed too... so I keep using 3.0 Handbook and BoXM which try interesting things
->Basically the I was taking classes, races and skills and a bit of combat from the Beta... If the changes in the classes make them useless for me... (I would still playing with the Beta domains, and the rage power... I fear what they are going to do with them now..., I have heard the Bard is going to lose skill points...)
tell me... its cost efficient to spend 50 bucks for what would be a splat book? the idea was to use ALL of it... but if I would be using just parts of the combat system, the skill system (mostly in the Beta, unless they made so great improvements that it deserves special attention), maybe the races (still need to see them... but they have not explained what happeend to Favored Class)... and right now I have been playng using the Beta, DnD PH 3.0 (DM and MM too, and the SRD for a few other things) and the BoXM...
certainly I cannot explain to myself to take this expense... worst... I see it as an expense because I will after a year and a half see the final product (in PDF in September, maybe) instead of an inversion that will enrich my game...
Right, I read your posts in this thread.
I was actually a bit disappointed about the loss of spell-like abilities when the Beta came out. In the Beta all the school spells and domain things like Produce Flame, other than the 1st & 8th level abilities, were back to being bonus spells. I thought that was a shame, but not too bad.
The Final version still has all those 1st/8th type abilities, adjusted of course, and it appears at different levels. If you were already adjusting the bonus spells to be spell-like abilities, that's an easy thing to maintain.
Also.. if you were still using the 3.0 spells, would just leaving them as the 3.5 versions have been a change to what you use? [Personally I think the new Divine Power is better by the way - no stinky wizard needed for Haste!]
I don't see any old feats that have been nerfed, that we know about in the Final version. Power Attack got a very solid boost for instance.
By the way, I think the chances of bard's *losing* skill points are nil. You probably just heard people complaining about Bards having additional abilities based on two Perform skills instead of just one.
I understand your thoughts - as one of the stronger classes in 3.5, the prescription would be for Clerics to have the least to gain. I felt the new domains were better than the old; many others felt they were a 'terrible blow' against the cleric. Overall, I don't think overall they have been hurt really, but there's some disappointment.
Montalve, I think you'll keep watching things, the new previews and all, and I think you might change your mind. I know I would dearly miss your insightful posts if you don't.
the channeling is the least of things,
but what did it to me... were the domains... have never gotten into the Bonus Spells, so the concept of the cleric receiving special blessings from their gods that doesn't count as spells but as supernatural abilities... that was interesting... and it worked well with how the bloodlines and the schools were working...
I have heard the Bard is going to lose skill points...)
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Montalve, I think you'll keep watching things, the new previews and all, and I think you might change your mind. I know I would dearly miss your insightful posts if you don't.
thanks, no worries about that, I would keep epstering around... and I am mostly sure getting the PDF
some changes are interesting, but the truth is... I can't afford to buy a game at 50 bucks that I won't be using as it comes out...
there are a lot of small things I didn't like... and I hopped they put more special abilities to the domains instead of returning them to bonus spells... hoped agaisnt hope for something cool at level 20...
and no... the rumor about the bard was something else... still was just rummor... i will keep checking them...
but... if the cleric doesn't make me want to play the game... there is not much thing else for me... which really really made me sad.
the channeling is the least of things, but we are talking about the concept of the energy coming from the gods and being distributed around you... now nerfed... because the gods are such wymps that you only have 2 options for it to work...
Yes channel was nerfed, though only in undead combat. It has been counterbalanced however. By domains, hear me out.
but what did it to me... were the domains... have never gotten into the Bonus Spells, so the concept of the cleric receiving special blessings from their gods that doesn't count as spells but supernatural abilities... that was interesting... and it worked well with how the bloodlines and the schools were working... so having the possibility of this 2 having interesting thigns as special abilities... and the domains turning back to Bonus Spells is... well the methaphorical drop that forced the water out of the glass...
why?
Seriously I don't understand this, their was two parts to domains in beta. Special abilities gained at 1st, 8th and 20th levels, and a number of bonus spells. They were just listed as 1/day, but they were domain bonus spells, just awkward to integrate with statblocks.
PFRPG, You still get the unique flavorful abilities at the same levels, and you get more and more powerful domain spells, and they integrate sleekily with the statblock and backward compatibility.
Write up both Fire Domains, compare. Thier almost identical, all chaneges are either power boosts or entirely cosmetic, but not in a way which in anyway changes flavor.
->Spells, nerfed in 3.5, nerfed again in Beta... nerfed again in PFRPG... that is why I still use 3.0 Hanbook
True, its across the board, so the relative power is the same.
It improves the imput of warriors at higher levels.
->Feats... nerfed too... so I keep using 3.0 Handbook and BoXM which try interesting things
How so? Its all about balancing,a nd feats are generally more effective in PFRPG to give fighters and others more balance.
->Basically the I was taking classes, races and skills and a bit of combat from the Beta... If the changes in the classes make them useless for me... (I would still playing with the Beta domains, and the rage power... I fear what they are going to do with them now..., I have heard the Bard is going to lose skill points...)
Haven't heard anything about bard skill points, I can't imagine thats the case. No-one thinks bards are overpowered.
(still need to see them... but they have not explained what happeend to Favored Class)...
Everyone can pick one at first level, it can be any class. Half-elves get two. I'm fairly sure that's how its going.
certainly I cannot explain to myself to take this expense... worst... I see it as an expense because I will after a year and a half see the final product (in PDF in September, maybe) instead of an inversion that will...
Read above, I think it'll be a great and well-laid out book. True it will be similar to 3.5, but thats the point. And clerics, haven't really changed that much, just flattened in power spikes, not diminished. See my arguement on the preveiw thread on which you express your genuine distress.
Have another look. Especially at domains, they are are almost identical!
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interesting points
ok valid points, will think of them... the 1st level domain power was pretty more usefull and usable a lot mroe freely... still I don't like clerics balsting enemies with fire everyother round like common wizards :P
and being able to fo "Produce Flame" or "Shield of Faith" almost at will, more than once a day (both were 1/2 lvls) were some of the things that have saved my ass.
but you might be right...
Allison, Cosmo... put on hold this cancel... I suppose you guys deserve the chance to at elast see the rest of the previews... at least the paladin, bard and barbarian...
interesting pointsok valid points, will think of them... the 1st level domain power was pretty more usefull and usable a lot mroe freely... still I don't like clerics balsting enemies with fire everyother round like common wizards :P
and being able to fo "Produce Flame" or "Shield of Faith" almost at will, more than once a day (both were 1/2 lvls) were some of the things that have saved my ass.
but you might be right...
Allison, Cosmo... put on hold this cancel... I suppose you guys deserve the chance to at elast see the rest of the previews... at least the paladin, bard and barbarian...
:D The light... its soooo pretty... go into the light Montalve, go into the BZZZAAAAPPPPP!!!! Ahh!!!
Larry?
LARRY?
:D
Glad to see you reconsider!
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So... I'm... not canceling this order, then...?
Ok. Order not canceled.
Thanks,
cos
thanks Cosmo, sorry for the trouble :P
still tinking it... but with a cold head:D The light... its soooo pretty... go into the light Montalve, go into the BZZZAAAAPPPPP!!!! Ahh!!!
Glad to see you reconsider!
still considering it... but ok the benefit of the doubt at least... :P
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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still considering it... but ok the benefit of the doubt at least... :P
Glad to hear you're going to give the rules a shot, and I hope it works out for you. I love what Paizo has done with the rules, and the only thing really holding me back from purchasing the rulebook is that my players aren't very interested in gonig back to 3.5.
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Glad to hear you're going to give the rules a shot, and I hope it works out for you. I love what Paizo has done with the rules, and the only thing really holding me back from purchasing the rulebook is that my players aren't very interested in gonig back to 3.5.still considering it... but ok the benefit of the doubt at least... :P
Buy it anyways and find a new group!
You've witnessed the depth of my social skills - how many friends do you think I have?
Buy it anyways and find a new group!
You're not trying to suggest you have any now, are you?
Sebastian has an IMPACTFUL personality.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Besides the imaginary ones?You've witnessed the depth of my social skills - how many friends do you think I have?
Buy it anyways and find a new group!
I don't think we can exclude them - after all, given that the world and all its people are entirely a product of my existence, everyone and everything is imaginary.
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I don't think we can exclude them - after all, given that the world and all its people are entirely a product of my existence, everyone and everything is imaginary.Besides the imaginary ones?You've witnessed the depth of my social skills - how many friends do you think I have?
Buy it anyways and find a new group!
What about stuffed animals?
Leave my dollies out of this! I will be left to play Hero with Tribbles.
Mr. Pretty Pants is a total munchkin. Underwear and pants are not two different slots.
Now Snuggly Wuggly Bear…
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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He can be your DM in the next Pathfinder campaign.MR. PRETTY-PANTS IS A PERSON!!! HOW DARE YOU!!!
What about stuffed animals?
You can't be serious. Mr. Pretty-Pants is a total a@+++~+. He always has to have his DMNPC in the party. He's always named Darringer Reginold Ninja McMunchkin and is always using some insanely broken house-rules system implemented by Mr. Pretty-Pants to break the game.
How dare you speak of the Lord Sebastion, King of the Ponies and Emperor of the plains like that!!!!!
Sebastian is a pony loving rules Lawyer!
Loser. If Mr. Snuggy Pants and Ms. Snuffy Wuffy weren't here holding me back I would have your head to place above my mantle. The scales would be perfect for looking at myself while enjoying a nice glass of port and a cuban cigar.
~waves my hand dismissively~ Yea. Yea. Talk away all you want to, Pony Boy!
I'm Sebastian's Friend!
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[Allison, Cosmo... put on hold this cancel... I suppose you guys deserve the chance to at elast see the rest of the previews... at least the paladin, bard and barbarian...So we are playing cricket again?
it all depends on my associate :P
whichever... you won't rid that easily from me... I like Golarion :P
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I'll be getting the book in August (unless someone else wants to buy it for my birthday, hint, hint).
I'm not naive; I fully expect there to be parts I hoped were changed, but weren't, or parts I hoped to stay the same, but were changed.
There will be parts I love, parts I like, parts I dislike, maybe even parts I hate.
But that was already the case with 3.0/3.5.
The difference is that Paizo actually asked me for my views on PF.
No-one ever asked me what I wanted in 3.0/3.5 (which makes it a minor miracle that there's so much about it that I do like!).
That fact alone, means the chances are high that this new ruleset will be closer to what I want.
And if something isn't to my liking, at least I know that I had the chance to comment, but I'm probably in the minority on the issue.
Keep playing the game, and put your suggestions forward for an 'Unearthed Arcana'-style Big Book of Variant Rules, somewhere in the future.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Can you not cancel my subscriptions too. And can you not not send me some free stuff while you're at it.So... I'm... not canceling this order, then...?
Ok. Order not canceled.
Thanks,
cos
*looks at Sebastian's Icon and title*
Um, be careful what you wish for, yes?
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Can you not cancel my subscriptions too. And can you not not send me some free stuff while you're at it.So... I'm... not canceling this order, then...?
Ok. Order not canceled.
Thanks,
cos*looks at Sebastian's Icon and title*
Um, be careful what you wish for, yes?
I would pay money to see what else they could do to his Avatar/Tag...
hahahahahahahahahahahaaaaa
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Can you not cancel my subscriptions too. And can you not not send me some free stuff while you're at it.So... I'm... not canceling this order, then...?
Ok. Order not canceled.
Thanks,
cos*looks at Sebastian's Icon and title*
Um, be careful what you wish for, yes?
I would pay money to see what else they could do to his Avatar/Tag...
hahahahahahahahahahahaaaaa
Friend of Mr Pretty-Pants?
Go on, Cosmo. You know you want to.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Friend of Mr Pretty-Pants?
Go on, Cosmo. You know you want to.
Whenever I see Mr Pretty-Pants written now, all I can think about is Sebastian as Cartman playing with Polly Prissy Pants and a bunch of Ponies. :?
"I am tha Law Polly Prissy Pants. You will respect my authoratah!"
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Hey, come on, Ernesto!
Rules aren't that important!
All my players know I pull half the game out of my ass, during the session.
je I know, and ask my players I improvise more than most :P
as I said... it just a lot of small things... and the cleric :P (with this I mean the class, its skills, feats and magic), my mind imput is, if I anyway i am using 3 other books to play... does I need a 4th? (becaause for me Beta is staying... I damn like my domains!!)
what really irks me is when mechanics are nothing else og gamey mechanics without taking into account the context or background of the class, or when taking bold steps, stepping back for the so called "compatibility" (really dozens of dm crying foul :P)
and I know I am grateful for all the Paizo experiment... but at the same time it is to show you if the game is for you or not... I know that at least I will be buying the PDF, why? well I have been dealing more than a year with this... and would want to se for completition, if for nothing else...
yes,... I have the bad custom of buying books I don't use... worst I have books I have never ever read... if I will take one more it will be in an economic way
and because the rules are the elast of things... I still want a lot of Paizo's upcoming books ... for me the flavor and story is more important than anything else... still one must have a set of rules they like... if you need to home rule 8/10 of the book :P well it tells you you are not really comfortable with it... isn't it?
The difference is that Paizo actually asked me for my views on PF.
Exactly! And more: They actually listened to our answers.
I know I made a lot of requests and comments that got a reply along the lines of "expect something very much like that in the final game."
Probably not all of these great suggestions were mine, but they had to come from somewhere...
my mind imput is, if I anyway i am using 3 other books to play... does I need a 4th? (becaause for me Beta is staying... I damn like my domains!!)
What you should get is some PDFs/SRDs, some editing skills, and a decent printer and binding machine. Make your own "extra core book". NO need to carry PHB 3.0, PHB 3.5, PF Beta and Final PF with you. Take the one that holds most of the rules and do a houserules book for the rest.
It's not even illegal (as long as you don't steal the PDFs)
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my mind imput is, if I anyway i am using 3 other books to play... does I need a 4th? (becaause for me Beta is staying... I damn like my domains!!)What you should get is some PDFs/SRDs, some editing skills, and a decent printer and binding machine. Make your own "extra core book". NO need to carry PHB 3.0, PHB 3.5, PF Beta and Final PF with you. Take the one that holds most of the rules and do a houserules book for the rest.
It's not even illegal (as long as you don't steal the PDFs)
actually my recipe would be something along:
"Print a full Beta... but take out the spells"
add "print all magic from 3.0 PH" to give it body
and add "BoXM to enhance the taste" :D
the only thing I would really really ebchecking on PF would the skills section AND maybe feats... but aye we agreed to buy the PDF to see how it ended...