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I haven’t been playing RPGs for as long as the OP, but I’ve played D&D for about twenty years. By the time I started, the days of randomly rolled dungeon charts were pretty well long gone … so if that is what is wrong with RPGs, it’s not “these days”, its been like that for a long time. Personally I’m not sure I really see what the issue is – it’s still entirely possible for a DM to construct a random dungeon and use random treasure charts (even the ones found in the core rulebook, the DMG – they’re still there in 3.5!) if that’s what the players in the group like.
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Ummmm what product were you playing?
Yes I remember there being random charts for GMs who did not want to prebuild everything, but that was never the norm. Even the very earliest adventures had premade maps, premade monsters occupying paremade locations with premade treasure.
That said...have you read the 3.5 DMG? There's all sorts of rules for creating a random dungeon, making random encounters, random loot tables, random weather, random chance of getting lost in the wilderness, etc. You can still make the game as random as you want - it's really up to the DM and his own personal taste. Wanna run a pre-built campaign complete with dungeon maps and every monster and treasure laid out for you? Well, you can. And if going all-out random hack-n-slash with no story but everything's done by the roll of the dice is your cup of tea, you can do that too.
The game supports each play style (and even a mixture of them) perfectly well.
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I started with the Basic Red Box, and quickly went to AD&D. However, we had a friend with the ORIGINAL pamphlets, and played a few games with that as well. Even with the pamphlets, it was never the "plan of the game" to have everything random. If it were, there would be no need for a GM at all. I could easily sit down with a group of friends, all of us with characters and we just roll randomly for rooms, monsters and treasure, and would do fine with no GM.
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I started in 1980, so I am a contemporary...We used the charts for a long time. Something about those charts, they rarely tie stories together though. They are great if you want to just throw a dungeon or adventure together and play, but if your dungeons are built with who, why, what, where, and how in mind the random things rarely fit in. The new charts are as useful as the old. If you need that spur of the moment adventure, everything you neeed is still there. If that isn't good enough for you, the old charts can still be used, you just have to update the traps and the monsters to the system you are using. Roleplaying is, after all, what you put into it. If you play it the same way, the game rules underneath should only add some flavor to the experience, not the meat and potatoes.
You can still do random, the item charts are still listed by percentile I believe. If not there are always these cool novalty dice(which I could not find on Paizo)... HERE
For any kind of randomizing you want... Adventure dice, Corridor dice, Trap dice, Monster dice, Compass dice, Weather dice, Hit Location dice and last but not least Pizza dice. They usually come with a small slip of paper which tells you how they interact with 1 or 2 normal D6's.
I bought one set of each of these, some work very well together, such as compass and corridor. Maybe one day I'll get around to using them even though I prefer playing to DM'ing.
Wait, what's that?
(sniff sniff)
Smells like...
... Troll ...
Is the OP for real? Is someone actually pining for long-lost days of random dungeons?
If you're truly lacking the random wonkiness, I bet you still have that old DMG laying around, so whip it out, roll up some random holes in the ground, then fill them with Pathfinder loot.
Should only take a few minutes to pencil in some d% values on the magic item charts in Pathfinder, and then to pencil in some d% values on the monsters in the Monster Manual (I recommend adding d% values to the chart at the back that groups monsters by CR rating - or wait for the Pathfinder Bestiary).
While you're at it, take a shot at Central Casting's Dungeon, the best random dungeon generator I've ever seen. It's old, as in early 90s old, but I just googled it and there are some for sale out there. Get em while they're hot.
And once you have those hot little random dice in your random hands, start whipping up random goofiness and stop trolling the Paizo boards.
Wait, what's that?
(sniff sniff)
Smells like...
... Troll ...
With spelling and grammar like that, I highly doubt the OP (and his single post) was even BORN in 1979...
That said...have you read the 3.5 DMG? There's all sorts of rules for creating a random dungeon, making random encounters, random loot tables, random weather, random chance of getting lost in the wilderness, etc. You can still make the game as random as you want - it's really up to the DM and his own personal taste. Wanna run a pre-built campaign complete with dungeon maps and every monster and treasure laid out for you? Well, you can. And if going all-out random hack-n-slash with no story but everything's done by the roll of the dice is your cup of tea, you can do that too.
The game supports each play style (and even a mixture of them) perfectly well.
We played some sessions with this complete hack-n-slash roll play style where the dungeons and contents came from the charts...and it was not without amusement, for a couple of sessions.
I can see that there's some fun to be had in randomising dungeons. However, when compared to creating a location that has an ecology which makes sense and/or structuring an adventure or location for most dramatic content, I'm not sure that random creations stand up so well.
I was playing in an adventure months ago where the DM openly rolled for a random encounter while we travelling. He then rolled for a random enemy and a long battle ensued, about which the player characters had no stake whatsoever, other than to stay alive. I found that flatly boring and contrived. How much nicer it would have been for that DM to have designed an encounter ahead of time, which was either related to the story, or was constructed interestingly rather than just a random attack.
This example isn't exactly illustrative of what the topic starter is proposing. But it is in the same ball park. Unless all you want from D&D is a series of random battles and treasures, with which to fight more random battles and gain more random treasures. It's like MMOPRG thinking, without any of the artistry.
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I started playing D&D In 1979 back then whe had charts and role your own dungons. Now days their is no real structure to the game. It is do anythng u want put any magic item out there you feel like, no real sence of i found something very cool. It now all depends on what your DM says. I remember finding things becaues My DM rolled on tables and charts to find out what was in the room not this willie nillie i put stuff in the room that the GM do now days. That takes all the fun out of it anyone can put an epic item in a room no matter what horrorable monster is guarding it. It was just more fun to know someone was following a table. Chance luck of the draw finding the item maybe even when nothing was in the room guarding it. It was honest and true. Now days not so much. Yes it was alot harder to find the special item but when u found it u knew it wasn't just a gift from your friend the GM. You earned it it was your find. We have lost that. yes we did place some things under very special conditions. But those things were so lost in time we almost never found them. Now i know what people will say what is the fun in playing if u don't find cool stuff. I will say to that when you do find something very cool it will be very cool not some half harted attempt to make your friend happy.
Mike, randomized treasure (and the DMG tables taking care of that) didn't vanish after 1979. In fact, every edition except the current one (4E) has kept them. Funnily enough, 4E's designer at a time even toyed with the idea that in 4E monsters drop loot randomly, just as in, you know, World of Warcraft. But that brings with it all the attendant grind and the pressure to re-sell your stuff to other players. So they dropped it and went for the wish-list system instead, whereby players can declare in advance which items would best suit their characters.
That said, having randomized treasure in one's D&D is only one part of it. For instance, the 4E DMG is the first DMG since 1E that contains tables for random dungeon generation! 4E apart, if you really like yourself (or your DM) to enhance his randomized module design, I suggest you hunt down the Ready Ref Sheets by Judges Guild, or you spend two dollars on Jeff Rients' Miscellaneum of Cinder. I'm having a blast with it!
In answer to the question:
Nothing's wrong. My group and I are having fun. That's all that matters.
Personally I don't think random encounters/loot/dungeons and planned adventure design have to be mutually exclusive. As a matter of fact I -love- random loot, not too little, not too much, fair is fair (perhaps just changing weapon types so party's warriors can use). Same goes for random encounters in the wilderness or roads (unless your party is using Survival to actually avoid risks).
See, that's what I think is contrived. Everything you could possibly meet while wandering around relates to the "story"? Or is interesting? Seriously? Nothing exists outside of the story? Everything has to be well scripted to be fun?
Yawn...
Of course not. But there is a script.
A dungeon with a layout that makes no sense whatsoever (unless it would make sense that the dungeon doesn't make sense, maybe because it was created by some insane aberration thingy) and where mortal enemies live in adjacent rooms doesn't really belong in a world that is supposed to be an imaginary world. It's okay for a game, going hand in hand with rules like "if you roll a 6, you can roll again".
Of course, it's always possible that you'll run into something out of place in the wild or stuff like that.
But I'm more comfortable if roleplaying tries to tell a story. Not just to be a game.
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See, that's what I think is contrived. Everything you could possibly meet while wandering around relates to the "story"? Or is interesting? Seriously? Nothing exists outside of the story? Everything has to be well scripted to be fun?
While I agree that there's a world outside of the story and that it's actually a good thing to show to the players I have to admit that I don't find any reason to waste my time with uninteresting, maybe even boring details. That's what real life is for.
This is not to say that random tables necessarily create uninteresting events.
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See, that's what I think is contrived. Everything you could possibly meet while wandering around relates to the "story"? Or is interesting? Seriously? Nothing exists outside of the story? Everything has to be well scripted to be fun?While I agree that there's a world outside of the story and that it's actually a good thing to show to the players I have to admit that I don't find any reason to waste my time with uninteresting, maybe even boring details. That's what real life is for.
This is not to say that random tables necessarily create uninteresting events.
In my campaigns, the "uninteresting, boring details" are more for me, to help me get into my homebrew world, than for the players. But the idea that everything has to serve the story just rubs me the wrong way. Having elements apart from what the PCs are doing makes everything seem richer, more robust and more believable in my opinion.
I wing stuff on occasion, and it seems to work out ok, and I've occasionally used random encounter charts just for the heck of it. I mean, no oneis putting any money in my account to DM, so why should I be expected to spend every second not working or playing scripting stuff for the gaming table? If my players have a problem with that, they can pay me to work on my game full time.
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Mike,
Welcome to the Paizo message boards. Thanks for joining us.
I do not agree that randomly created dungeons with randomly placed monsters guarding (or not) randomly determined treasure are superior to well-thought out, intentionally designed locations, encounters, and treasures.
However, if that is your preferred style of play, there are guidelines/tables for this in the 3.5 DMG, as others have pointed out. If your problem is more a result of the gamers in your area not being interested in "randomly generated D & D," you could try looking around at PBP (play by post) and VTT (virtual tabeltop) sites and see if you can find others who are looking for your kind of game.
Also, on behalf of the greater Paizo community*, let me apologize for the unnecessary insults upthread.
One again, welcome. We hope you stay.
I wing stuff on occasion, and it seems to work out ok, and I've occasionally used random encounter charts just for the heck of it. I mean, no oneis putting any money in my account to DM, so why should I be expected to spend every second not working or playing scripting stuff for the gaming table?
Interesting story != script
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In my campaigns, the "uninteresting, boring details" are more for me, to help me get into my homebrew world, than for the players.
Ah, ok, that's something I can get behind (mostly because I'm doing the same thing). Though I don't tend to call those details "boring", to be honest.
So I think that I should have worded my former post more carefully. Things don't have to be important to be worthwhile. So if random encounter means that the heroes meet farmer Miller tending to his only cow and ranting about the bad weather this can be quite interesting in my eyes. What i tend to get bored from is repeated random fights without the least bit of inworld connectivity.
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Or, if you can't find a group of friends that wants to do the random dungeon thing, pick up a copy of Neverwinter Nights (the first one) and then get the Infinite Dungeons Premium Module. Sure, it's an older game now, and it's based on D&D 3.0 rules, but the module's made by the very talented DLA team and, hey, it makes random dungeons filled with random loot and random monsters for infinite replayability (for as long as the random thing holds your interest).
Thanks for making my point from another post, Count Buggula. :)
I've been playing RPGs since 1976, and I have sat on panels with folks like Gary Gygax (RIP) and Mike Stackpole. (Yes, I am OLD!.)
:-D
What is wrong? Well, better question could be what is different?
Well, first off, I'm not sure the most recent crop of RPGs, e.g., WOW Tabletop RPG, WHFRPG, D&D 4.0 would have been called RPGs "waaaaay back when."
We would have thought of the current crop of RPGs as miniatures games with a bit of fantasy chrome thrown in.
While "Chainmail" was a precursor/contributor to D&D, D&D was really a different animal. Significant chunks of the rules in AD&D for example dealt with non-combat situations and strategic concerns, e.g., building a keep, gathering followers, economics, etc. Using a battlemat was more or less optional, and the focus in the game could be on a lot of non-physical confrontation.
The earlier incarnations of RPGs' rules were largely just guidelines for a storytelling exchange between the DM/GM/Ref and the characters. For the great campaigns, you could smell the foliage and see the mountains and streams. The rules in the first RPGs were never meant to be inclusive, and GM rulings were critical. As a GM, you had to know your world. If a character picked up a chair to hit another, I figured that that was probably about d4+1 damage just based on comparing a chair to some of the other bashing weapons.
It is hard to close your eyes and imagine your fighter twirling around with axes out like the Tasmanian Devil in Bugs Bunny as some of the current RPGs allow unless you are also imagining him as a cartoon or a manga character.
Also, I think that waaaaay back when, RPGs were more closely tied to literary sources, e.g., Tolkein and D&D, Lovecraft with Call of Cthulhu, Tolkein for ICE's Rolemaster, etc.
D&D 4.0 feels to owe more parentage to a combination of MMORPGs and manga.
That is not necessarily bad. It is just different.
My gut is that the current crop of worlds is less immersive, because the current crop of RPG games tend to have a more cartoony feel to them.
While I might lose my membership card in the "he man, old school of extreme role-playing club," I admit that I like some of the tie-in books that come out of the current games like WOW, WHFRPG, etc.
:-D
Not what's wrong just what's different?
In service,
Rich
If you're looking for random tables, I highly recommend Ultimate Toolbox. Its 400 pages of systemless random tables, including dungeon generation and ways to customize it (etc, smells, liquids, walls). Plus there's pirates, towns, forests, magical locations, and much much more.
*disclaimer, I helped write it.
EDIT: Oops, I didn't realize that it is currently unavailable from Paizo. But bring the info to your FLGS and they'll be able to order it.
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I started playing D&D In 1979 back then whe had charts and role your own dungons.
Uh huh. Very strange vocabulary for a fellow geezer. Post #1 for you as well? Think I'm going to have to cry "BS" on this one.
That being said, the random roll dungeon was for "When you need help in designing a dungeon..." (AD&D DMG, pg 169 - yes, I have my books as a desk reference), and not as the default method of play. Also, randomness has nothing to do with structure, being actually an antithesis.
Gary - I do appreciate your stance, but I am afraid I too smell something ... trollish.
I appreciate the rest of your reply, but you could have left this part out. Not every first-time poster is a regenerating giant.Wait, what's that?
(sniff sniff)
Smells like...
... Troll ...
Are trolls even giants still?
I started playing D&D In 1979 back then whe had charts and role your own dungons. Now days their is no real structure to the game. It is do anythng u want put any magic item out there you feel like, no real sence of i found something very cool. It now all depends on what your DM says. I remember finding things becaues My DM rolled on tables and charts to find out what was in the room not this willie nillie i put stuff in the room that the GM do now days. That takes all the fun out of it anyone can put an epic item in a room no matter what horrorable monster is guarding it. It was just more fun to know someone was following a table. Chance luck of the draw finding the item maybe even when nothing was in the room guarding it. It was honest and true. Now days not so much. Yes it was alot harder to find the special item but when u found it u knew it wasn't just a gift from your friend the GM. You earned it it was your find. We have lost that. yes we did place some things under very special conditions. But those things were so lost in time we almost never found them. Now i know what people will say what is the fun in playing if u don't find cool stuff. I will say to that when you do find something very cool it will be very cool not some half harted attempt to make your friend happy.
If your interested in this topic I recommend checking out the thread 4Es Rejection Of Gygaxian Naturalism. Despite its pejorative title its an excellent thread that delves fairly deeply into the old style mechanics, their pro's and con's and why some choose to utilize them or, alternatively chose not to use them. Furthermore the thread, with a few relatively minor exceptions managed to remain focused and informative without a lot of flame baiting or wars.
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and, hey, it makes random dungeons filled with random loot and random monsters for infinite replayability (for as long as the random thing holds your interest).
Priceless. :)
And, I forgot to quote from the little booklet I recommended above.
Please be advised that no random table can fix a faltering game. However, using input generated from a die chart can damage an otherwise functional campaign.
To illustrate, here's a brief encounter table from JG Ref Sheets. You only need a d6 and take it from there.
Woman Encounter Table (1 in 6 have +1 to +6 added to CHA)
1 Slave (Roll Owner's Hierarchy)
2 Vixen/Houri
3 Concubine (Roll Hierarchy)
4 Amazon (Roll Military Social Level)
5 Daughter (Roll Hierarchy)
6 Barmaid/Lady/Dame/Goddess
The next one also requires a 1d20:
NPC Attack Reasons
There will be many encounters where the players will be attacked, with obscure purpose. Unless an overriding reason has already developed (e.g. the players encounter guardsmen after setting fire to a tavern), then roll on the following table. Higher social level types will generally have 'companions' who will hasten to do their liege's bidding.
Roll 1d20:
1 Mistaken idenitity
2 Doesn't like PC's looks
3 Doesn't like PC's class
4 Alignment hatred
5 Race hatred
6 Robbery/confiscation
7 Lust
8 Temporary insanity/berserk
9 Imagined slight
10 Clan Hatred
11 Doesn’t like PC’s NPC [hireling]
12 Doesn’t like PC’s clothes
13 Thinks PC looks sneaky looking
14 Interfering with plans
15 In the way
16 Drunk
17 Religious hatred
18 Revenge
19 Jealousy
20 Capture*.*Roll 1d6 for Capture Reason:
1 to sacrifice
2 to sell as decoy
3 to sell as a slave
4 to ransom
5 to use in prisoner exchange
6 to impress into unit/work detail
You know, the best way to stop your players derailing your module is to beat them to the punch.
Actually, my friends and I roll random treasure all the time for 3.5. And you're right. It is fun. You never know what the players are going to get, and it's neat to see what they wind up with.
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I wing stuff on occasion, and it seems to work out ok, and I've occasionally used random encounter charts just for the heck of it. I mean, no oneis putting any money in my account to DM, so why should I be expected to spend every second not working or playing scripting stuff for the gaming table? If my players have a problem with that, they can pay me to work on my game full time.
D'you hear that, fellas?
If you want a game tomorrow night, my Paypal address is *********************.
If you want The Captain's Blade to have a magic dwarven waraxe in stock, I'd better see double digits...
If my players have a problem with that, they can pay me to work on my game full time.D'you hear that, fellas?
If you want a game tomorrow night, my Paypal address is *********************.
If you want The Captain's Blade to have a magic dwarven waraxe in stock, I'd better see double digits...
Please note first that houstonderek wrote "work on my game full time." Emphasis mine there.
I don't see you quitting your day job any time soon :-)
Plus, I reckon you should pay me for all my help in detailing my character, and how your campaign should revolve around him :-)
And I doubt any of the others are reading this. Sorry.
Go get back on-topic, I really liked the random tables for 1-on-1 games in particular, and for when our DM let us roll for the treasure the party found on the latest defeated monster.
Ah, those were the days!
Toolbox or Ultimate Toolbox + Tables from the DMG + Solo Dungeon Generation Tables from the Dragon Compendium = Totally random table based adventure design.
I've used stuff like that for Fallout style games where the PCs are crawling out of a bunker of sorts, discovering the brave new world around them, pioneers of discovery in a world unfamiliar.
See I would roll the monster, then the treasure, then let the party have at the monster -- who has and uses the treasure. After/if the party won they got the loot.
Being a fan of cinema and literature, the whole loot issue rubbed me the wrong way.
See, that's what I think is contrived. Everything you could possibly meet while wandering around relates to the "story"? Or is interesting? Seriously? Nothing exists outside of the story? Everything has to be well scripted to be fun?
Yawn...
I don't see making sure that everything has its own story, one that makes sense, has to relate to the overall campaign story that's unfolding around the PCs. In fact, I think everything should have its own story. And these stories can intersect from time to time, sometimes in significant and long-term ways and sometimes as just passing encounters.
Being a fan of cinema and literature, the whole loot issue rubbed me the wrong way.
Loot has its place even in cinema and literature... Bilbo's Ring, Louis's sword, The magician's ring, Guns the heroes pick up in zombie flicks... all these and more are important "loot" issues... the key is of course making sure that the "loot" is more than just some 'magic' item to be used and discarded or "required" to play at a certain level.
I disagree. Those are all items that, to a lessor extent, are a central part of the character. Bilbo does not toss the ring aside as soon as he finds a Ring of Mass Invisibility. Many of these items may be McGuffins, but they are not 1d4x100 McGuffins.
I disagree. Those are all items that, to a lessor extent, are a central part of the character. Bilbo does not toss the ring aside as soon as he finds a Ring of Mass Invisibility. Many of these items may be McGuffins, but they are not 1d4x100 McGuffins.
It's still loot. The only difference is the importance placed on the item by the character and the DM (or storyteller). Look we didn't get a full discription of the taste of the mutton the dwarves looted from the trolls, or a full discription of Smaug's treasure, just the most important loot items are given spotlight time. Like Bilbo's "two tiny bags of gold" what the coins are stamped with doesn't really matter so much as we know that it was obtained and used.
If you want your major Loot to have more importance in the game it is up to you as a player or DM to give it that feeling.
If all you say is "Yeah you found a +5 longsword" that's how the PC's will treat it... if you say "You realize with a start that this is the ancient sword Flargablaster, last wielded by the king Hamslayer the 3rd in his ill fated crusade against the goblinfolk." You give it much more significance even if it is still just a +5 longsword. Even if it is 'only' a +1 sword, you might let it 'grow' with the character wielding it.
If you as a player want that earthbreaker you start the game with to have significance consider giving it a name, and small history. Pay attention to it while in game (actually mention that you are looking it over, tracing the runes inscribed upon it's head and refurbishing the wooden handle while pulling your watch while camping). The items only have the significance you give them.
Some Loot should be insignificant... the purse of gold crowns (coin crowns instead of simple gold pieces), the several gems that the hag coven had, or the fifty masterwork sets of plate mail in the dragon's horde. Others are up to you as a DM and player to make important.
Fluff matters.
I disagree. Those are all items that, to a lessor extent, are a central part of the character. Bilbo does not toss the ring aside as soon as he finds a Ring of Mass Invisibility. Many of these items may be McGuffins, but they are not 1d4x100 McGuffins.
Because it was cursed.
It wasn't a ring of invisibility. It was a ring of invisibility to anyone but your worst enemy, which see you even better than before.
Tolkien just metagamed the "you cannot lose a cursed item without remove curse" well, and it shows us that Gandalf was powerful enough to cast remove curse at least.
:D
See I would roll the monster, then the treasure, then let the party have at the monster -- who has and uses the treasure. After/if the party won they got the loot.
Yeah. I would do the same, now. Back then, the style of play was a lot more simplistic (or at least our style of play was :-) and it was generally assumed that most monsters could only use any magical item they had listed on their description in the module, and not what their treasure type gave them...
And we ruled that items found that would have obviously been used during the encounter got re-rolled anyway, so it worked...
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I started playing D&D In 1979 back then whe had charts and role your own dungons. Now days their is no real structure to the game. It is do anythng u want put any magic item out there you feel like, no real sence of i found something very cool. It now all depends on what your DM says. I remember finding things becaues My DM rolled on tables and charts to find out what was in the room not this willie nillie i put stuff in the room that the GM do now days. That takes all the fun out of it anyone can put an epic item in a room no matter what horrorable monster is guarding it. It was just more fun to know someone was following a table. Chance luck of the draw finding the item maybe even when nothing was in the room guarding it. It was honest and true. Now days not so much. Yes it was alot harder to find the special item but when u found it u knew it wasn't just a gift from your friend the GM. You earned it it was your find. We have lost that. yes we did place some things under very special conditions. But those things were so lost in time we almost never found them. Now i know what people will say what is the fun in playing if u don't find cool stuff. I will say to that when you do find something very cool it will be very cool not some half harted attempt to make your friend happy.
It sounds like you need a new DM. Try some organized play and see what you think about the storytelling and role play aspect of the hobby rather than the aquisition of magic and the slaying of monsters. Better yet, get some buddies together and try DMing an adventure path. You may be surprised.
I was putting together a post about how natural selection was working in RPG evolution, but I lost my train of thought. Something about good ideas being passed on to the next generation of games, while unsuccessful mutations of the rules falling by the wayside or into nostalgia. The mega bucks spent by WotC to dominate the market is sorta like a domesticated species that outcompetes the natural RPG because of artificial interference in the evolution of the game. Now, we're genetically engineering games with deliberate and focused game design. Something like that, but I kinda lost my focus and don't have a complete idea. Best to ignore my ramblings...:)
Fluff matters.
And how many GMs do this? If each PC gets one or two items their entire career, sure…no problem. When they get 1d6 every encounter, not so much.
You do not have to sell me on fluff. I am with you there. It does matter. That’s the role playing as far as I am concerned. The proliferation of loot does not, in my opinion, encourage fluff. It encourages accounting.
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I was always upset when we found magic the enemy could have been using against us and didn't. Seemed stupid to me that they wouldn't have used it...
Agreed. On the other hand, nothing stings like watching an enemy blow through charges on a wand that you really want...
"No! Stop using it! I want it to have some charges left when I loot you!"
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I was always upset when we found magic the enemy could have been using against us and didn't. Seemed stupid to me that they wouldn't have used it...
I'm known for doing that. A common phrase amongst my players is: "HEY!! Stop using our loot!!!!" Healing/Magical potions, scrolls, wands...if they have them as "loot" then my NPC's will use them if needed.
Fluff matters.And how many GMs do this? If each PC gets one or two items their entire career, sure…no problem. When they get 1d6 every encounter, not so much.
You do not have to sell me on fluff. I am with you there. It does matter. That’s the role playing as far as I am concerned. The proliferation of loot does not, in my opinion, encourage fluff. It encourages accounting.
I tend to hand out 'special' items or some form of "cash" as my loot. It's what you generally see in the novels and movies, and it works -- good stuff is remembered and kept, the money gets the PC's what they think they need without it nessecarily being every baddie has "x" magic items.
With this in mind, and pointing out to my players at the start of the game that even if they horde every weapon an enemy drops, every stick they find and then resell it, I'm only going to let them hit a certain level of wealth that I feel is appropriate for where they are in 1. level, and 2. plot. Once they know that I'm going to keep them at spot with wealth they don't worry about getting every single thing that falls off of a 'monster'. If they do grab all the spears off the goblin horde and sell them it's taken into account next time I give out loot, if they don't again that's taken into account to so they don't get jipped out of what they've earned money wise.
It all comes down to simply telling them at the start "Look if you loot everything you see, you'll still end up with the same general amount as you will if you leave the odds and ends stuff behind."
In this case it's not a fluff thing, it's me as a DM telling them they don't have to worry about the "non essentials" and can simply enjoy what they do have more.