Chief Technical Officer
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Hello, there...
Just wanted to let you guys know that I'm volunteering to translate the Compatibility License into Spanish.
Is it all right?
And last but not least, congratulations on this great achievement!
Sorry—there can only be one legal version, and it's in English. (If you were to mis-translate something, that could be problematic.)
Oh, all right, then, Vic.
I'm a professional translator, but I can see and understand your concern. Better to play it as safe as possible with no marging for error.
Now, I know that if I were to put out PDF products, I need to have the license included, in English, no matter the language I use for their release.
Then, I'm also assuming you are not putting out localized versions but licensing them to intereested companies. Am I Correct?
All best!
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Chief Technical Officer
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Now, I know that if I were to put out PDF products, I need to have the license included, in English, no matter the language I use for their release.
You don't need to include the full license; you only need to include the required text from Exhibit A, which is in English. If you want to *also* include it in another language, I'd be fine with that, so long as you note that your translation is unofficial.
Then, I'm also assuming you are not putting out localized versions but licensing them to intereested companies. Am I Correct?
Correct. And for that, we're looking for professional partners like the folks listed in Exhibit C. Interested parties can contact licensing@paizo.com.
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Director of Games
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I'm not completely clear on your question... but I *think* the answer you're looking for is that the OGL allows you to reproduce the Open Gaming Content from the book, and this license does not take that away. It just doesn't address it, because it's addressed in the OGL.
If you're asking about how much you can *modify* the rules, the answer is that your product needs to remain "compatible" with our system, in that a player of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game should be able to pick up your product and use it without issues. If you're changing the system enough that they can't do that, then you may not use this license for your product. (You can still use the OGL to access our Open Gaming Content, of course... you just can't say it's compatible with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game.)
What I mean is: can I make a product that's clearly meant to be used together with Pathfinder (and not a stand-alone product), and indicate that that's the case under the terms of the Compability license, and still reprint big (lots of full spell descriptions) or small (complete stat blocks from the MM or parts of the racial descriptions) chunks of the Pathfinder rules?
For an example of the "small chunks" part, can I write an adventure that has a dwarf in it and include all the situational dwarven stuff in the stat block, or do I have to use a pointer to the rulebook? Or can I copy a monster stat block verbatim from your bestiary and include it in my adventure?
Yes, you could print such a product and indicate compatibility. The OGL allows you to use our rules material, reprinting any parts of it that are open (which is most of the it). The compatibility license allows you to indicated compatibility with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game on your product, assuming that the product is actually compatible.
At least... I am pretty sure that is correct. Vic?
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
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Chief Technical Officer
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I'm not completely clear on your question... but I *think* the answer you're looking for is that the OGL allows you to reproduce the Open Gaming Content from the book, and this license does not take that away. It just doesn't address it, because it's addressed in the OGL.
If you're asking about how much you can *modify* the rules, the answer is that your product needs to remain "compatible" with our system, in that a player of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game should be able to pick up your product and use it without issues. If you're changing the system enough that they can't do that, then you may not use this license for your product. (You can still use the OGL to access our Open Gaming Content, of course... you just can't say it's compatible with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game.)
What I mean is: can I make a product that's clearly meant to be used together with Pathfinder (and not a stand-alone product), and indicate that that's the case under the terms of the Compability license, and still reprint big (lots of full spell descriptions) or small (complete stat blocks from the MM or parts of the racial descriptions) chunks of the Pathfinder rules?
For an example of the "small chunks" part, can I write an adventure that has a dwarf in it and include all the situational dwarven stuff in the stat block, or do I have to use a pointer to the rulebook? Or can I copy a monster stat block verbatim from your bestiary and include it in my adventure?
Yes—the type of material you're talking about is available for your use as Open Gaming Content under the OGL.
Looking at the license, it seems that it only covers game products; I'm assuming things like Pathfinder novels would not be included under this license?You are correct—this license doesn't let you use any of the content we've specified as Product Identity except foe the Compatibility Logo itself. If a professional publisher wants to use any of our other Product Identity, they'll need to acquire a specific license. (And we're planning to do our own Pathfinder novels, so unless you're a book publishing giant, we're probably not interested in licensing that out.)
If you're asking about non-commercial use, though, check out our Community Use Policy.
Thanks, Vic. What if you're interested in working on some of those novels? Or pitching a novel idea to Paizo? :D
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Creative Director
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Thanks, Vic. What if you're interested in working on some of those novels? Or pitching a novel idea to Paizo? :DLooking at the license, it seems that it only covers game products; I'm assuming things like Pathfinder novels would not be included under this license?You are correct—this license doesn't let you use any of the content we've specified as Product Identity except foe the Compatibility Logo itself. If a professional publisher wants to use any of our other Product Identity, they'll need to acquire a specific license. (And we're planning to do our own Pathfinder novels, so unless you're a book publishing giant, we're probably not interested in licensing that out.)
If you're asking about non-commercial use, though, check out our Community Use Policy.
We don't have our fiction line up and running yet... but until we do, we're not looking for novel pitches. We'll be assigning/hiring authors to write the first few, I suspect. If the line takes off and is successful, then everything changes, but at the start... the best way to get one of those novels is to do the following:
1) Establish yourself as a bankable author with several published books under your belt, or have worked with Paizo on other projects for several years already.
2) Be willing to write in a shared world (not all authors are keen on the work-for-hire stuff).
Again, opportunities to write Pathfinder novels might open up in the future, but that future is still a few years away at the least.
Thanks, Vic. What if you're interested in working on some of those novels? Or pitching a novel idea to Paizo? :DLooking at the license, it seems that it only covers game products; I'm assuming things like Pathfinder novels would not be included under this license?You are correct—this license doesn't let you use any of the content we've specified as Product Identity except foe the Compatibility Logo itself. If a professional publisher wants to use any of our other Product Identity, they'll need to acquire a specific license. (And we're planning to do our own Pathfinder novels, so unless you're a book publishing giant, we're probably not interested in licensing that out.)
If you're asking about non-commercial use, though, check out our Community Use Policy.
We don't have our fiction line up and running yet... but until we do, we're not looking for novel pitches. We'll be assigning/hiring authors to write the first few, I suspect. If the line takes off and is successful, then everything changes, but at the start... the best way to get one of those novels is to do the following:
1) Establish yourself as a bankable author with several published books under your belt, or have worked with Paizo on other projects for several years already.
2) Be willing to write in a shared world (not all authors are keen on the work-for-hire stuff).
Again, opportunities to write Pathfinder novels might open up in the future, but that future is still a few years away at the least.
w00t! #'s 1 and 2 - done!
Great - thanks for the reply James - sorry about the hijack!
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I've just checked the registry of 3P publishers who declared their intent to publish PFRPGCL compatible products.
Dreamscarred Press ... with their psionic mojo.
Fat Dragon ...
Necromancer (duh) ... with TOME OF FRIGGIN' HORRORS !
LPJ...
Kobold "Wolfgang" Quarterly...
Radiance House, aka Mr. "Binder" Nardi...
and a whole bunch of companies I am not that familiar with, but it seems I'll give them a solid look now.
Good times, good times ahead ! Now, all I need is Chris Pramas announcing Book of Fiends: Pathfinder Edition and PF Freeport. :)
I'm concerned about the requirement to use the latest exhibits, and specifically Paizo's right to update Exhibit B. Under a draconian (but not unreasonable) interpretation, an update to Exhibit B could, even if Paizo added resources to Exhibit B, require update of existing products to bring them into compliance.Exhibit B is a list of products you *may* reference. If we add stuff to the list, it just gives you more options; you don't *have to* reference any of them. We don't intend to remove stuff from the list; it will only grow over time.
I've no doubt that was the intent, but it does not appear that that intent is reflected in the license. It does not say that Paizo will only add to Exhibit B, it says that Paizo may update Exhibit B.
The other point I had was that the specifics of the requirement to use an updated Exhibit B overrule, as I understand it, the more general statement that any version of a previous license is acceptable.
Probably if I remain concerned about it the solution is simply - as you point out - to reference nothing.
Regardless of my caveat, it's an excellent license nevertheless. If I didn't think it was an excellent license I would not trouble to comment on it.
Cheers,
MI
I've no doubt that was the intent, but it does not appear that that intent is reflected in the license. It does not say that Paizo will only add to Exhibit B, it says that Paizo may update Exhibit B.
The other point I had was that the specifics of the requirement to use an updated Exhibit B overrule, as I understand it, the more general statement that any version of a previous license is acceptable.
Probably if I remain concerned about it the solution is simply - as you point out - to reference nothing.
Regardless of my caveat, it's an excellent license nevertheless. If I didn't think it was an excellent license I would not trouble to comment on it.
Cheers,
MI
I think that removing the items from Exhibit B is a somewhat of a concern, but as far as removing the Exhibits to stop people from making new products that reference them. If they wanted to accomplish that I think that them just terminating the license is a much easier solution.
I'm thrilled to see this! Very thrilled!!!
Now, for a question... how does one go about selling pdfs on the Paizo site? Or is there a way?
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I've just checked the registry of 3P publishers who declared their intent to publish PFRPGCL compatible products.
...and a whole bunch of companies I am not that familiar with, but it seems I'll give them a solid look now.
Expeditious Retreat is going to update their 1-on-1 stuff to Pathfinder! Rock on! As half of a gaming couple that uses gaming as part of our hang-out time together, the 1-on-1s have been a great bonus to us.... looking forward to those!
A big THANK YOU to Paizo (and Vic Wertz for fielding this thread)
Rite Publishing just submitted its application. We have up to now only produced product under the Arcana Evolved Limited Licence, but we had a new line that was going to be just OGL.
I very much look forward for a chance to make it compatable with The Pathfinder Role Playing Game.
(Just that one line all the other lines remain exlusiviely AE per our limited license).
Thanks again, for the opportunity
Steven D. Russell
Rite Publishing
If I'm to understand the licenses, you can not use both licenses, if you're deemed a publisher, you lose the use of the community license.
Why can't you publish material that's compatible, and give freebies that are community use.
I'm not sure I understand your question, but I'm going to try to answer anyway.
If you are a fan site (i.e. not a publisher), you can use both licenses. You can use the Compatibility Logo.
However, you are still allowed to indicate compatibility (as defined in section 7 of the OGL) using the Community Use Policy alone, you just can't use the actual compatibility logo to do it with. (The Community Use FAQ says this.)
If you ARE a publisher, you can't use the Community Use policy, even in free products, because that would be allowing competitors access to Paizo's IP.
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Two questions come to mind on reading the policy. You've been very specific about where borrowed art can come from. How do you feel about us using the avatars from the message-boards as tokens for online battlemaps to support PbP games? Like this?
What about art from the products available for free downloading here at the Paizo site? Like the Rise of the Runelords Player's guide and the map of Sandpoint contained? They haven't necessarily appeared in the blog (though many have). Can they be re-posted for player convenience on a site that's registered?
Thanks.
Luke
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Creative Director
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Two questions come to mind on reading the policy. You've been very specific about where borrowed art can come from. How do you feel about us using the avatars from the message-boards as tokens for online battlemaps to support PbP games? Like this?
What about art from the products available for free downloading here at the Paizo site? Like the Rise of the Runelords Player's guide and the map of Sandpoint contained? They haven't necessarily appeared in the blog (though many have). Can they be re-posted for player convenience on a site that's registered?
Thanks.
Luke
Messageboard avatars are not open; they're not in the community use area because a lot of the images are from Dragon and Dungeon magazine (or, like my own avatar, of a WotC miniature). We secured permission from WotC to retain these images as icons, but that's about it; we can't open them up to use elsewhere.
Now, the avatar images that are from art for Pathfinder we DO own... yet going through and sorting out what is and isn't available isn't something we have the resources to do, I'm guessing. So for now, all of the avatar art has to remain off-limits.
As for art from free PDFs... that's not open either, unless it's art that's appeared on the blog or is in the community use package. They cannot be re-posted, although I wouldn't be surprised if, as time goes on, we add some of those maps and images to the community use package as additional downloads. Not sure if that's possible but I can ask around.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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As for art from free PDFs... that's not open either, unless it's art that's appeared on the blog or is in the community use package. They cannot be re-posted, although I wouldn't be surprised if, as time goes on, we add some of those maps and images to the community use package as additional downloads. Not sure if that's possible but I can ask around.
I didn't want to sound greedy, especially after the generous terms Paizo has put forth, but I was wondering about this. So it's the intention to add new material to the package as time goes on? If so, how will fans be notified of the additional material? Do we just have to download it every once in a while and see if there's a new flag or holy symbol in the folder?
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Creative Director
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As for art from free PDFs... that's not open either, unless it's art that's appeared on the blog or is in the community use package. They cannot be re-posted, although I wouldn't be surprised if, as time goes on, we add some of those maps and images to the community use package as additional downloads. Not sure if that's possible but I can ask around.I didn't want to sound greedy, especially after the generous terms Paizo has put forth, but I was wondering about this. So it's the intention to add new material to the package as time goes on? If so, how will fans be notified of the additional material? Do we just have to download it every once in a while and see if there's a new flag or holy symbol in the folder?
I'm not sure if that's the intention, honestly. It's certainly a possibility, though, especially as we continue to create new symbols and artwork that would fit in well with what we've already released.
Anyway, that's just my guess at this point... even though I might look like a Tyrannosaurus Rex, you shouldn't necessarily take my guess as a promise!
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Chief Technical Officer
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It does not say that Paizo will only add to Exhibit B, it says that Paizo may update Exhibit B.
Generally, we'll be adding products to that list as they're announced, before they're published; the word "update" gives us the ability to change things about those products (such as their exact title or product code), if we need to, before they're released.
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Chief Technical Officer
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If I'm to understand the licenses, you can not use both licenses, if you're deemed a publisher, you lose the use of the community license.
Non-commercial publishers can use either or both; commercial users may not use the community use policy.
Why can't you publish material that's compatible, and give freebies that are community use.
Basically, we just don't want professionals playing with our Product Identity without a separate license. When it comes to retail presence, we want all of the products that use our campaign setting to be either created by or specifically approved by us; I don't want to see somebody's Free RPG Day product set in Golarion without our permission, or somebody designing a line of free Pathfinder Chronicles products that's *really* intended to sell you on their other lines. This license is designed to limit the commercial gain from our IP to Paizo and our chosen licensors.
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Chief Technical Officer
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As for art from free PDFs... that's not open either, unless it's art that's appeared on the blog or is in the community use package. They cannot be re-posted, although I wouldn't be surprised if, as time goes on, we add some of those maps and images to the community use package as additional downloads. Not sure if that's possible but I can ask around.I didn't want to sound greedy, especially after the generous terms Paizo has put forth, but I was wondering about this. So it's the intention to add new material to the package as time goes on? If so, how will fans be notified of the additional material? Do we just have to download it every once in a while and see if there's a new flag or holy symbol in the folder?I'm not sure if that's the intention, honestly. It's certainly a possibility, though, especially as we continue to create new symbols and artwork that would fit in well with what we've already released.
Anyway, that's just my guess at this point... even though I might look like a Tyrannosaurus Rex, you shouldn't necessarily take my guess as a promise!
Folks,
Please leave this thread for discussion of the Compatibility License, not the Community Use Policy—I don't want folks getting confused about those things.
I'll answer in the spoiler below, but please follow up somewhere else if you need to.
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If I'm to understand the licenses, you can not use both licenses, if you're deemed a publisher, you lose the use of the community license.Non-commercial publishers can use either or both; commercial users may not use the community use policy.
Why can't you publish material that's compatible, and give freebies that are community use.Basically, we just don't want professionals playing with our Product Identity without a separate license. When it comes to retail presence, we want all of the products that use our campaign setting to be either created by or specifically approved by us; I don't want to see somebody's Free RPG Day product set in Golarion without our permission, or somebody designing a line of free Pathfinder Chronicles products that's *really* intended to sell you on their other lines. This license is designed to limit the commercial gain from our IP to Paizo and our chosen licensors.
So if I wanted to develop some cheap Pathfinder compatible stuff, mostly game aids based on Pathfinder. Would I be able to run a free community space as well?
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Thanks, Vic. What if you're interested in working on some of those novels? Or pitching a novel idea to Paizo? :DLooking at the license, it seems that it only covers game products; I'm assuming things like Pathfinder novels would not be included under this license?You are correct—this license doesn't let you use any of the content we've specified as Product Identity except foe the Compatibility Logo itself. If a professional publisher wants to use any of our other Product Identity, they'll need to acquire a specific license. (And we're planning to do our own Pathfinder novels, so unless you're a book publishing giant, we're probably not interested in licensing that out.)
If you're asking about non-commercial use, though, check out our Community Use Policy.
We don't have our fiction line up and running yet... but until we do, we're not looking for novel pitches. We'll be assigning/hiring authors to write the first few, I suspect. If the line takes off and is successful, then everything changes, but at the start... the best way to get one of those novels is to do the following:
1) Establish yourself as a bankable author with several published books under your belt, or have worked with Paizo on other projects for several years already.
2) Be willing to write in a shared world (not all authors are keen on the work-for-hire stuff).
Again, opportunities to write Pathfinder novels might open up in the future, but that future is still a few years away at the least.
What about oustanding fan-fic on a site? would that be a possible foot-in-the-door?
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Chief Technical Officer
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So if I wanted to develop some cheap Pathfinder compatible stuff, mostly game aids based on Pathfinder. Would I be able to run a free community space as well?
If Paizo believes that you are in the publishing business, you are considered to be a commercial user, and you are not granted any right to use any Paizo Material under this Policy.
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Chief Technical Officer
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What about oustanding fan-fic on a site? would that be a possible foot-in-the-door?
Right now, for our novels, we're mainly talking about people who are likely to have the phrase "New York Times Best Seller" in their resumes. That said, I believe there are folks who started writing fan fic who have made their way towards that benchmark...
Let's keep any follow-up on Paizo's Pathfinder Fiction to more appropriate threads, though.
What can publisher actually start using the license to create products?
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Chief Technical Officer
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What can publisher actually start using the license to create products?
You may not release any compatible products until August 13, 2009 (the scheduled release date for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game).
We'll be providing a way that established publishers can have access to the final rules fairly soonish, so that they can have products in the pipeline before that date. Stay tuned for specifics.
We'll be providing a way that established publishers can have access to the final rules fairly soonish, so that they can have products in the pipeline before that date. Stay tuned for specifics.
For those of us who are new and therefore not established, will we be able to just use the Beta for now to try and have something out in time, and do a "revised" edition of our product or a free web enhancement to cover any differences between Beta and final after we see the final in August?
For those of us who are new and therefore not established, will we be able to just use the Beta for now to try and have something out in time, and do a "revised" edition of our product or a free web enhancement to cover any differences between Beta and final after we see the final in August?
Note that you can always begin writing something using the Open Gaming License, and then add in the Golarion-specific details later.
"Joe the fighter was born in [redacted] in the country of [redacted]. As a young lad, he was trained in the art of the [redacted] by [redacted] and then he moved to [redacted] and married a cleric of [redacted]." :-)
You may not release any compatible products until August 13, 2009 (the scheduled release date for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game).
It is amazing what things you can find if only I read them correctly. My Bad.
We'll be providing a way that established publishers can have access to the final rules fairly soonish, so that they can have products in the pipeline before that date. Stay tuned for specifics.
Excellent! I can't wait to announce my first two products. Here is a hint for all you fans out there, it is something that you can not do with out. [cue evil laugh] HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Note that you can always begin writing something using the Open Gaming License, and then add in the Golarion-specific details later.
Absolutely, except for the part about Golarion-specific details. Golarion is off limits without a seperate license. Not to mention that only Paizo has the finished rules ATM so we do not know exactly what the final game will look like. We have a general idea (it will have levels and BAB and saves and hit points and etc), but there are alot of specific questions still up in the air.
Note that you can always begin writing something using the Open Gaming License, and then add in the Golarion-specific details later.
"Joe the fighter was born in [redacted] in the country of [redacted]. As a young lad, he was trained in the art of the [redacted] by [redacted] and then he moved to [redacted] and married a cleric of [redacted]." :-)
Thanks, but I'm not looking for Golarion-specific details. We are planning to use the compatibility license, not the community use license. :)
But the OGL itself will cover everything we need for now if we don't get the final rules early. My main concern is that, if using the compatibility license, can we put the compatibility logo on a first product without having seen a copy of the final rules?
Robert Thomson
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming
Thanks, but I'm not looking for Golarion-specific details. We are planning to use the compatibility license, not the community use license. :)
Oops...I failed my Spot check on the name of this thread. *bonk*
My main concern is that, if using the compatibility license, can we put the compatibility logo on a first product without having seen a copy of the final rules?
Robert Thomson
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming
How would you know the rules are compatible if you haven't seen the final rules?
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Creative Director
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Note that you can always begin writing something using the Open Gaming License, and then add in the Golarion-specific details later.
"Joe the fighter was born in [redacted] in the country of [redacted]. As a young lad, he was trained in the art of the [redacted] by [redacted] and then he moved to [redacted] and married a cleric of [redacted]." :-)
Thanks, but I'm not looking for Golarion-specific details. We are planning to use the compatibility license, not the community use license. :)
But the OGL itself will cover everything we need for now if we don't get the final rules early. My main concern is that, if using the compatibility license, can we put the compatibility logo on a first product without having seen a copy of the final rules?
Robert Thomson
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming
You should not put the compatibility license logo on a product if you're not sure the rules you're using are compatible with the PF RPG. One could certainly use the Beta to start work on a product, but we would prefer folks wait until they see the final rules before they release anything that says "Pathfinder Compatible" on it. It'll make our lives and yours less complex, as far as confused customers go.
You should not put the compatibility license logo on a product if you're not sure the rules you're using are compatible with the PF RPG. One could certainly use the Beta to start work on a product, but we would prefer folks wait until they see the final rules before they release anything that says "Pathfinder Compatible" on it. It'll make our lives and yours less complex, as far as confused customers go.
Thank you! That is exactly the answer I needed. I was 99% sure that was the case, but it never hurts to have clarification on things.
Robert Thomson
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming
Oops...I failed my Spot check on the name of this thread. *bonk*
Not a problem. Happens to us all at some point. :)
Robert Thomson
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming
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Chief Technical Officer
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You should not put the compatibility license logo on a product if you're not sure the rules you're using are compatible with the PF RPG. One could certainly use the Beta to start work on a product, but we would prefer folks wait until they see the final rules before they release anything that says "Pathfinder Compatible" on it. It'll make our lives and yours less complex, as far as confused customers go.Thank you! That is exactly the answer I needed. I was 99% sure that was the case, but it never hurts to have clarification on things.
Robert Thomson
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming
It's actually covered in the license:
You agree to use your best efforts to ensure that the licensed products are fully compatible with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game as published in August, 2009.
Just making it compatible with the Beta doesn't work here.