Would Paizo ever publish a large scale mega-dungeon along the lines of the Ruins of Undermountain (box set) or the Ruins of Myth Drannor *box set again)? Second, would they publish one for the Pathfinder setting?
Well, if they do something like that, it will almost certainly be for Pathfinder Chronicles.
I think everything is possible, but it's not too likely that they'll do a mega dungeon crawl any time soon. They have their hands full with their Adventure Paths. And the modules. and the companions and chronicles stuff. And the RPG.
Never say never, though.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Anything is possible, but I think we need to lay a lot of groundwork first so that people are excited about a specific dungeon. With all of the maps and potential for boring grind with a product like this, it'd have to be REALLY good.
And for it to be REALLY good we'd need a LOT of people to buy it in order to cover the higher-than-normal costs.
I dunno. I think it would be popular and I want to get to it eventually, but I think we need some smaller adventures and solid campaigns while everyone is still getting used to the Pathfinder RPG rules.
Any suggestions for a mega-dungeon product?
Any suggestions for a mega-dungeon product?
Not quite, but I remembered an old adventure in Dungeon
Just piling levels upon levels would be quite boring.
Stefan
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Stuff associated with some of the major big guys, like a campaign to off the Whispering Tyrant (who, we all know, is very evil). Of course, that might just be an adventure path, but perhaps an adventure path set in a single site like a mega-dungeon. Of course, that might put some people off and so might not be a commercial proposition, but dungeons don't necessarily imply just dungeon-crawling and stuff, but could involve multiple factions inside and maybe outside. A good example might be the Return to the Ruins of Greyhawk - something like that, which has as its focus a really big dungeon but actually builds an interesting campaign around it, rather than simply being an extremely large room-clearance exercise. Kudos to those unknown authors.
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I would only be interested if that Product were more setting then adventure (something like the 2nd ed. Undermountain) or if the adventure itself is different from the good old dungeon hack (O.K. for short adventures - but BoringBeyondBelief for some Megadungeon) I have no RPG Adventure on m mind here, but the general direction of computer games like Ultima Underworld or Arx Fatalis could be interesting.
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Anything is possible, but I think we need to lay a lot of groundwork first so that people are excited about a specific dungeon. With all of the maps and potential for boring grind with a product like this, it'd have to be REALLY good.
And for it to be REALLY good we'd need a LOT of people to buy it in order to cover the higher-than-normal costs.
I dunno. I think it would be popular and I want to get to it eventually, but I think we need some smaller adventures and solid campaigns while everyone is still getting used to the Pathfinder RPG rules.
Any suggestions for a mega-dungeon product?
Erik,
I have a couple thoughts:
1) I agree with you that it would have to be something special for folks to get excited about.
2) The Dungeon of the Whispering Tyrant could be such a place. You guys have already created a bit of a buzz around that.
3) I was originally thinking of an Adventure Path that was designed around mega dungeon, and each book in the 6 part series would outline a section of the dungeon.
4) A Paizo verison of Necropolis (or something similar) that tied into the other dungeons of Osirion might be enough to catch interest in.
Any suggestions for a mega-dungeon product?
Three words: Spire. Of. Nex.
If there is anyplace in Golarion made out to be a limitless dungeon like Maure Castle or Undermountain, that is it.
Mega-dungeon + setting = Land of the Linnorm Kings.
I'm talking barbarian princesses, frozen towers of perilous intent, ice weasels. This place has everything.
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I really liked that D0, D1, D1.5, and D4 all used the same "dungeon" and continue to explore new levels in each new adventure.
If you guys can't do a product exactly like Undermountain I'd love to see the Module line do another dungeon in the same way... or find a way to extend that existing dungeon a few new floors... like having a cave in that opens floor! ;)
Any suggestions for a mega-dungeon product?
Three words: Spire. Of. Nex.
If there is anyplace in Golarion made out to be a limitless dungeon like Maure Castle or Undermountain, that is it.
Really? What source holds anything on the Spire of Nex?
Really? What source holds anything on the Spire of Nex?
IIRC, both the campaign setting and the Guide to Absalom.
One other place is the Cathedral of the Star Stone - though I imagine if the Test ever gets written, they'll want it to be a bit more accessible than that.
Mega-dungeon + setting = Land of the Linnorm Kings.
I'm talking barbarian princesses, frozen towers of perilous intent, ice weasels. This place has everything.
I think this would be a great AP, but not a mega-dungeon like Undermountain. I think they are defining a mega-dungeon as one expansive underground complex. Otherwise I could not agree with you more. My inner-geek really wants to see an AP around this region.
I'm not a big fan of mega-dungeons, especially if it is one static location. UnderMountain didn't do much for me.
However, this immediately made me think of the Demon Lords article in PF#18. Andrifkhu's followers are fond of building trap ridden dungeons. Her cult could try to replicate the Vault of Ten Thousand Deaths, or there could be a gate to this place (which I'm guessing is one vast mega-dungeon).
Stuff associated with some of the major big guys, like a campaign to off the Whispering Tyrant
Actually a mega-dungeon (or THE mega-dungeon) sounds like the place in Golarion for Tar-Baphon to hide his phyllactery, I like the idea... but then that also sounds like an idea that will have to wait at least some years for the game's meta-plot to advance enough as to allow for such event as the dissapearance of one of the top villains.
Really? What source holds anything on the Spire of Nex?IIRC, both the campaign setting and the Guide to Absalom.
Good. I have both books. Do you have page numbers so I can shorten my search?
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Contributor
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Good. I have both books. Do you have page numbers so I can shorten my search?Really? What source holds anything on the Spire of Nex?IIRC, both the campaign setting and the Guide to Absalom.
Campaign Setting Hardcover Pg. 57, just above the Diobel entry
Guide to Absalom Pg. 63, last paragraph. Note that the description clearly indicates that ANY dungeon you want to use could be the Spire of Nex. I think that nailing that particular dungeon down to one incarnation would take away a great deal of its mystique.
I could have sworn we'd covered this before, but I don't mind posting again, b/c it's something I'd dearly love to see.
One of the siege towers surrounding Absalom; RJK's "El Raja Key"; or something to do w/ the Whispering Tyrant immediately spring to mind. You've balked at an epic-level AP, but a high-level mega-dungeon that soared into low-epic levels could work, especially if it involves the W. Tyrant.
I have to say a mega-dungeon isn't too high on my list for Golarion. I've seen a few that were done well, but overall they tend to be a bit much in my opinion. That's not to say I wouldn't pick one up if you guys released it, but I definitely would not want to see a whole AP taken up by one dungeon.
Any suggestions for a mega-dungeon product?Not quite, but I remembered an old adventure in Dungeon
** spoiler omitted **Just piling levels upon levels would be quite boring.
Stefan
An excellent adventure but it does need to be placed with a significant amount of thought. Those Teleporting Towers are not going anywhere so once they are introduced to the game you have essentially created gates that the PCs can utilize to rapidly move great distances.
Beyond this its decently probable that the PCs won't just use this as their personal high speed transport system but will hand the information over to varous locals in which case your going to have to deal with the ramifications of your campaign world having these highways in place permanently. All of this can, of course, be dealt with but the varous consequences of these towers should definitly be considered before the DM plops them down.
An orvian vault could make a really cool, but different dungeon.
With dinosaurs, and vampires, and vampireosaurs. :D
I like the idea of the starstone cathdral, but its different for almost every different person.
Campaign Setting Hardcover Pg. 57, just above the Diobel entry
Guide to Absalom Pg. 63, last paragraph. Note that the description clearly indicates that ANY dungeon you want to use could be the Spire of Nex. I think that nailing that particular dungeon down to one incarnation would take away a great deal of its mystique.
Now that would make an interesting mega dungeon. Give me ideas on what to do with the interior.
Mega-dungeon + setting = Land of the Linnorm Kings.
I'm talking barbarian princesses, frozen towers of perilous intent, ice weasels. This place has everything.
I think this would be a great AP, but not a mega-dungeon like Undermountain. I think they are defining a mega-dungeon as one expansive underground complex. Otherwise I could not agree with you more. My inner-geek really wants to see an AP around this region.
Yeah, I dropped the ball there in my haste to type 'ice weasel' and declare my devotion to the region.
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UNDERSEA-TRAIL OF THE ANCIENTS
The Vampire's Trail
We we pursued the Lord of Darkness to the Coast thinking he would lead us to his lair. The trail led to a Hill - we had him cornered. There we found a Cut Cave 20' wide extending into a Hill near the sea.
For several miles that Tunnel ran straight. It was divided by a single row of columns supporting the crumbling and unstable ceiling as the tunnel descends down. Once the Tunnel was below 100' of surface, the columns vanished and the tunnel continued beneath the Sea reaching a below surface depth of 1000'. The journey took us through the deepest caverns, through horrors and surprises unimaginable to the far side of the Ocean. The Tunnel rose again now to the surface and again the Columns reappeared to support a Weak and crumbling ceiling. All the while tha trail got colder as our prey pulled further ahead.
Eventually we had arrived in a distant land. it had taken us a year to cross the Sea through tunnels that ran directly beneath it. Now we were confronted by a Cold Trail in a foreign land. There was nothing we could do but go home - this time by ship.
One other place is the Cathedral of the Star Stone - though I imagine if the Test ever gets written, they'll want it to be a bit more accessible than that.
This is the first thing I thought of when I was consider an "Undermountain" equivalent (in the middle of a city, traps magically reset, different every time around, etc.).
I wouldn't mind seeing a Kaer Maga supplement include a significant amount of dungeon action, as long as there is still adequate space to present the city itself.
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I would lean more toward the Castle Whiterock rather than the World's Largest Dungeon approach... I like being able to retreat back to a town for restocking and making magic items.
Stuff like The Lost City of Barakus and Caverns Of Thracia come to mind too.
Insanely huge projects could be outlined by Paizo and then each layer or region could out-sourced to the myriad of talented people floating around these boards. It would probably be more interesting if there was not a lot of collaboration between authors...
Dungeon Magazine attempted a mega-dungeon with Maure Castle.
What worked in it was a great back story and plot to connect the
levels. What did not was it was never completed.
A Pathfinder AP would have the space to do a new mega-dungeon right.
We never finished Maure Castle because someone other than us decided to cancel the magazine. :)
Which sadly is a crime unto itself and that seems to happen alot with them.
Anyways, All Hail Paizo!
I am playing through the Troika games Temple of Elemental Evil pc game at the moment. I would like to say that I do not like the idea of a mega dungeon unless a lot of work goes into making the place realistic. Many dungeons are linear, which makes very little sense if you think about it. There should be ways to go directly to lower levels of a subterranean complex. There should also be a function for each part, and a reason for any inhabitants to be there. The hardest defenses to crack should be the outer defenses that keep intruders out. There should be food supplies for all inhabitants, or a magical work around. Toilets. Storerooms. Communal places. Non combatants.
Rather than a mega dungeon, I would prefer a volume of mini dungeons with different purposes.
I believe the bar was set by the Whispering Cairn. That was the most consistent dungeon design yet.
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Here is a must read on the topic:
(thanks to Planet Thirteen's How to Host a Dungeon for the link)
I believe the bar was set by the Whispering Cairn. That was the most consistent dungeon design yet.
Amen to that!
Anything is possible, but I think we need to lay a lot of groundwork first so that people are excited about a specific dungeon. With all of the maps and potential for boring grind with a product like this, it'd have to be REALLY good.
And for it to be REALLY good we'd need a LOT of people to buy it in order to cover the higher-than-normal costs.
I dunno. I think it would be popular and I want to get to it eventually, but I think we need some smaller adventures and solid campaigns while everyone is still getting used to the Pathfinder RPG rules.
Any suggestions for a mega-dungeon product?
Maybe you could offer a package special-Megadungeon needs mega game aids. Mondomats are kind of expensive, but if I had the option to get a Mondomat at a bit of a discount if I bought the really cool megadungeon module (high five if you still refer to 'scenarios' as 'modules'), I might go for it.
Count me in! What is not to like :)Mega-dungeon + setting = Land of the Linnorm Kings.
I'm talking barbarian princesses, frozen towers of perilous intent, ice weasels. This place has everything.
You are counted in, good sir.
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Test of the Starstone would make for an awesome epic level mega-dungeon boxed set, but definitely a bit on the risky side to start off with.
I'm thinking maybe one or two box sets a year (a release right around X-Mas would rock and make for great gifts). Viperwall in Varisia would be a nice place to start, I agree.
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Anything is possible, but I think we need to lay a lot of groundwork first so that people are excited about a specific dungeon. With all of the maps and potential for boring grind with a product like this, it'd have to be REALLY good.
And for it to be REALLY good we'd need a LOT of people to buy it in order to cover the higher-than-normal costs.
I dunno. I think it would be popular and I want to get to it eventually, but I think we need some smaller adventures and solid campaigns while everyone is still getting used to the Pathfinder RPG rules.
Any suggestions for a mega-dungeon product?
I don't know if I'd be interested in e "Mega-Dungeon" as I would a "Mega-Module" ala Temple of Elemental Evil (the original one). Actually, I would like to see a series of interconnected adventures in the same vein as Temlpe of Elemental Evil/Scourge of the Slavelords/Queen of Spiders. Now a series of modules like THAT I would most unquestionably buy!
Actually, I would like to see a series of interconnected adventures in the same vein as Temlpe of Elemental Evil/Scourge of the Slavelords/Queen of Spiders. Now a series of modules like THAT I would most unquestionably buy!
That's pretty much what the adventure paths are.
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Actually, I would like to see a series of interconnected adventures in the same vein as Temlpe of Elemental Evil/Scourge of the Slavelords/Queen of Spiders. Now a series of modules like THAT I would most unquestionably buy!That's pretty much what the adventure paths are.
[Johnny Carson voice] I did not KNOW that[/Johnny Carson voice] Looks like I am going to have to check those out. Any suggestions where I should start (in other words which ones to start with)?