I think the problem, Disciple, isn't the medium armors, it's the chain shirt. It's an insane, inane piece of equipment that only just appeared in 3.x that really should be removed from existance...
however I tend to argue for the addition of/to stuff so I'm not going to get into depth on it.
Quite possibly. But, like I said either upthread or in a different one (can't remember, now...), I'm not too broken up about armor being more or less three options. I just handwave it and let PCs describe their armor as however it suits them, appropriate to the category (heavy or light). Guess it's just the nature of the 3.5 armor beast...
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Don't make the weapons go down a catagory, just make 'em something dex users can strive for. Personally I'm sick of seeing any every dex fighter wielding only rapiers, short swords, kukri, etc, etc!
Can you imagine a fighter with just a few ranks in Perform(weapon dance) using a glaive?
Friggin' sweet.
mithril making a weapon finessable... I like that thought, good job.
I have to say I think the magic defense of Cold Iron is an interesting idea, but the one-half of AC is a bit unwieldy when you consider how the light/medium/heavy armors AC is broken up.
Light would give a +1 or +2 bonus
Medium would give a +1 or +2 bonus
Heavy would give a +3 or +4 bonus
However if the bonus was tied to the armor category - ie. -
cold iron Chain Shirt = +1 to saves
cold iron scale/chain/breastplate = +2 to saves
cold iron splint/banded/half/Full Plate = +3 to saves
Perhaps even for the superheavy armors (mechanus gear/Mountain Plate) it could grant a +4 bonus.
On the Mithril armor issue I have to vote B. But I also have to point out that the Ranger and Rogue have often depended upon the mithril medium armors in order to survive. While they should be restricted from heavy armors as they are not designed to be "Meatwalls" they are also in desperate need of some heavier armor.
If the Mithril issue does eventually go the way it seems to be (which I wholeheartedly agree with) The Rogue and Ranger not only nedd to gain proficiency with medium - but all their class features need to be functional in medium armor as well, ie. - Combat Styles and Evasion.
[QUOTE="Douglas Mawhinney"
If the Mithril issue does eventually go the way it seems to be (which I wholeheartedly agree with) The Rogue and Ranger not only nedd to gain proficiency with medium - but all their class features need to be functional in medium armor as well, ie. - Combat Styles and Evasion.
I whole heartedly disagree with this, why if we make mithral chainmail count as medium armor, do we need to change the rules to allow rogues and ranger to use it easily?
Whats the point of changing it? Isnt that the very loophole you are trying to fix? Or just that it should cost a feat to use it?see in 3.5 you have mithral, elfin chain,and celestial chainmail.
All pretty close to the same thing and there shouldnt be that many different types of the same thing.
so here's my take. Elven Chainmail is made of a rare metal with inherent magical properties called mithral. Extremely light and stronger than steel mithral elven chain armor has the following additional/modified properties:
ACP:2 AC: +6 can be worn under clothing and hidden as if to make the wearer seem unarmored.
I think this should be a change to pathfinder rules but in my games this part is house ruled: casting arcane spells in armor forces a spellcraft check modified by the armor check penalty (no arcane spell failure chance as that is figured by the skill check), if a second circumstance requires an additional spellcraft check to see if the spell is successful, it still has to be made, a single check is made to see if the armor interferes with the spell, additional forced checks are stand alone circumstances.
Thereby elven chain is better protection, better choice for spellcasters but still medium armor, an elven chain shirt of course, would be light armor, have the same stats as a regular chain shirt, except its acp is only 1.
but rogues and rangers should still be in the light armors as is iconic for their classes.
Currently the rogue/ranger in our campaing wears an elven chain shirt +1 with shadow hide. But it is only the shirt, which seems fine to me.
ok so i have a ?
it says that mirthil armor is MWK so if i get a mithril brestplate would the armor check go to 0 or -1?
cuz of the mithril droping the armor check by 3 and the MWK droping the armor check by 1
Just as the masterwork armor cost is included in the mithral cost, so is the masterwork benefit included in the mithral benefits.
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So, a little bit of expansion on these ideas.
1. Mithral weapons - I am all for this because of the lore behind mithral as True Silver. I agree that not all materials need to be good as weapons and armor, but this is one case where it should be both.
2. Mithral armor - There are a couple roads I can take with this... listed from least nerf, to most nerf.
A - Leave it the way it is...
B - Make it so that the armor counts as one class lighter in all regards, except for proficiency.
C - Remove the one class lighter bit entirely.
D - Come to your house and rip up all character sheets of PCs that, in my supreme opinion, are abusing mithral, replacing them with 1st level commoners built using the standard array (10, 10, 10, 11, 11, 11).I am thinking that B is the way to go.. although D sounds like fun, I just do not have the time. :-)
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
I think "B" works well.
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I'm definitely for some alterations to mithral armor as a whole, though I agree that Elven Chainmail should remain special, either retaining the ability to count as light armor, and/or gaining some other benefits. And as a player of a Bladesinger in 3.5 (I don't care how poor of a prestige class people said it was, I played it for flavor, not for "optimization"), I'd definitely feel shorted something if my elven bladesinger lost his bladesinger abilities when wearing Elven Chain.
