Hopefully others can use this thread to clarify questions arising in this adventure. If you happen to see another thread, please link post a link in this one to try and keep things tied together.
Chapter 1: Howl of the Carrion King
Chapter 2: House of the Beast
Chapter 3: The Jackal's Price
Chapter 4: The End of Eternity
Chapter 5: The Impossible Eye
Chapter 6: The Final Wish
"In the next week or so, we're expecting to ship the next volume of your subscription."
You know the drill!
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OK, this adventure looks massively awesome! Probably tied with Howl of the Carrion King for my favourite of this path from my readings of it so far. Found a few errors in it, but most of them aren't anything major. I'll post them below;
Bassadoum (p32-33): Bassadoum's attacks as listed as 1 point too low as far as I can see. I get 16 base attack, 8 strength and -1 size for a total of +23, +21 on secondary attacks. The error is also present in his base stats without buffs.
Bassadoum's caster level is listed as 5th when it is in fact 9th.
Bassadoum's grapple check is 2 points too low. Since a reduced grapple check is not listed in his base stats, I suspect bull's strength has not been included. His grapple check should be +28, with his base statistics including a grapple check of +26.
Master Matajinn (p48): Matajinn's flat-footed AC should be the same as his base AC, namely 25, due to his uncanny dodge ability.
Matajinn's attacks with his rapier are calculated as if the rapier was a +2 weapon, but his equipment has it listed as being +1. Since it *is* a named weapon, I don't know if the error is in the attacks or in the equipment list. Clarification would be appreciated.
Aberzjerax (p51-52): Hopefully errors here won't be relevant, I certainly wouldn't want to fight him!
Be that as it may, Aberzjerax's base attack is listed as +18 when it is in fact +22. This error is not carried over to his attacks, which are correct.
Aberzjerax's grapple check is listed as +31 when it should be +41.(Though when you get to those sorts of numbers, an errant +10 doesn't make all that much difference!)
Ezer Hazzebaim (p89): This is the only place where I've found considerable errors, and I'll address them below.
Firstly, Ezer's initiative bonus is listed as +3, but he has Dex 14 and the Improved Initiative feat. However, see my final point below.
Secondly, it states that he casts shield, cat's grace and fly before combat, but his stats do not include the bonuses granted by shield or, I suspect, by cat's grace.
He has a fly speed listed, but his land speed and fly speed are both increased by 30 ft. as if he were hasted, though no other benefits of that spell can be seen. Plus, he doesn't have haste memorized.
I believe that references to his pre-combat spellcasting were supposed to be removed, since his during combat tactics state that he's unlikely to be able to cast any prepatory spells prior to combat.
As such, I believe that any references to his before combat tactics should be deleted, his land speed should be reset to 40 ft., and his fly speed should be removed.
Thirdly, Ezer's base attack and attacks are wrong. By my calculations, Ezer's base attack should be as follows:
+12 from 12 outsider hit dice
+1 from 3 wizard hit dice
+2 from 3 cleric hit dice
+1 from 2 mystic theurge hit dice
+3 from epic attack bonus
for a total of +19 base attack. (this doesn't change the number of his attacks, since his pre-epic base attack was +16.) If he doesn't start using the epic base attack rules (and I'm never sure how that works with monsters exceeding 20 hit dice by the use of class levels) after he reaches 20 hit dice, then his base attack is even lower, at +18.
With his corrected base attack, Ezer's attacks should be as follows:
+1 cold iron greataxe +27/+22/+17/+12 (3d6+11/x3) or
2 slams +26 (1d4+7).
This also means that his grapple check is wrong. Ezer's grapple check should be +30.
Fourthly, finally, and most importantly, Ezer appears to have too many feats. As I understand it, Ezer's feats break down as follows; 2 bonus feats from race, 1 bonus feat from 1st level of wizard, 9 feats from hit dice. However, Ezer has 14 feats listed.
I suspect that he is not supposed to have Improved Initiative, and his listed initiative is wrong anyway, so I'd recommend removing that feat, leaving his initiative at +2. For his second deleted feat I'd recommend Great Cleave, since it doesn't involve any recalculation of his numbers and doesn't come up all that often.
Here are the compiled corrections made to Ezer's stats.
Ezer Hazzebaim
Init +2
Spd 40 ft.
Melee +1 cold iron greataxe +27/+22/+17/+12 (3d6+11/x3) or 2 slams +26 (1d4+7)
Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 10th, +20 ranged touch)
Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 10th, +20 ranged touch)
Base Atk +19; Grp +30
Feats Remove Great Cleave, Improved Initiative
Mea culpa if any of these errors turn out to be nothing of the kind, and I'm just adding things up wrongly. The Ezer stuff is all a bit tricky due to the 'more than 20 Hit Dice' thing, but hopefully my calculations are correct.
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Master Matajinn (p48): Matajinn's flat-footed AC should be the same as his base AC, namely 25, due to his uncanny dodge ability.
That's not how Uncanny Dodge quite works, and they've never statted UD characters that way (see Amiri's stats in Second Darkness). The players just have to remember that characters with Uncanny Dodge rarely lose their Dex bonus to AC.
Edit: fixed that. See below.
Master Matajinn (p48): Matajinn's flat-footed AC should be the same as his base AC, namely 25, due to his uncanny dodge ability.That's not how Uncanny Dodge quite works, and they've never statted UD characters that way (see Amiri's stats in Second Darkness). The players just have to remember that characters with Uncanny Dodge are rarely caught flat-footed.
Huh? That's exactly how Uncanny Dodge works, and characters with Uncanny Dodge are flat-footed just as often as any other characters. The only difference is when they're flat-footed (or attacked by invisible creatures) they have a better AC.
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Huh? That's exactly how Uncanny Dodge works, and characters with Uncanny Dodge are flat-footed just as often as any other characters. The only difference is when they're flat-footed (or attacked by invisible creatures) they have a better AC.
Nerts, got that backward again, sorry. FF != Lost Dex Bonus To AC
I've edited the post for correctness.
The problem as I see it is the idea of "Flat-Footed AC" as part of the stat block. This is fine for everyone without Uncanny Dodge, but becomes very confusing for the UD characters.
Certainly a flat-footed UD character retains he Dex bonus to AC...BUT!...he can still lose his Dex bonus to AC due to other factors, such as feinting, so having a precomputed "AC W/O Dex Bonus" is a useful stat! We shorthand it to "flat-footed" even when this is incorrect.
Paizo has always included a (technically incorrect) flat-footed AC for characters with UD.
Certainly a flat-footed UD character retains he Dex bonus to AC...BUT!...he can still lose his Dex bonus to AC due to other factors, such as feinting, so having a precomputed "AC W/O Dex Bonus" is a useful stat! We shorthand it to "flat-footed" even when this is incorrect.
Paizo has always included a (technically incorrect) flat-footed AC for characters with UD.
I agree that writers often get lazy and/or confused and conflate "flat-footed" with "no Dex bonus to AC" (which doesn't have a pithy descriptor, unfortunately) and that that's probably what's going on with the flat-footed AC listed in the stat block.
Is the GP Limit for the City of Brass correct? It's a bigger city than Absolom but has a smaller limit.
Questions regarding A1:
Does the sequence start over when the PCs fail to pick the right curtain or does it continue indefinitely? Is it possible to have two groups tracking on different sequences?
Obviously, as the DM, I could make up my own answer, but I'm interested to see what Mr. Vaughan intended.
Also on some of the natives:
There isn't a whole lot of backstory on what the various factions are doing in the palace. Imam Shabendeh is pretty straightforward, but I wonder about the others:
Guardians of the Forbidden Gate - The Grand Vizier ordered them to hold the palace/citadel "against all comers", why? No one can escape. Were they sent in after Jhavhul's efreet minions returned, or have they been here since the curse was first laid upon the citadel?
The Flickering Candle - why are they here? Yes they use the citadel as hostage storage, but why are they here in the first place? There's the following in the description of C7, but more detail would be awesome:
"The Flickering Candle, which had hoped to use the abandoned palace as a place to hide its contraband, stashed these objects here soon after they
arrived in Bayt al-Bazan."
The Cult of the Incarnate Flame - Are these former slaves?
Perhaps I'm missing some thing obvious: is the only way to escape the treasure chamber level to discover the secret trash chute over the lava?
Also, not errata:
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Greg, I'd agree that the maps are in pretty good shape. I'd venture to say that the adventure as a whole is in pretty good shape - as I say, for all my digging I only found one stat block with errors more serious than a missed +1 or a mistyped number. For a level 11-13 adventure, I find that deeply impressive!
I did have one question about Matajinn's equipment that I posted in my original errata post, and if you have an answer on that I'd be all ears. It *is* a fairly minor detail, so no worries if you don't know one way or the other. :)
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Greg, just wanted to say I read the adventure and I totally dug it. Very nice work! The maps were very cool and the villain most enjoyable. This grognard was very pleased (though I must grognardily point out that I1 is the fabulous sandbox Dwellers of the Forbidden City; Pharaoh was I3!).
Thanks for the backstory on the factions! This really does help tied the P together (for me at least).
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Quick question about the Sepid Div in the bestiary. The Sepid has an ability called Evasive Target, the text of which is as follows:
'A sepid is particularly difficult to strike with
ranged weapons and spells that require a ranged touch attack.
Anytime a sepid would normally be hit by a spell using a ranged
touch attack, such as a ray, it can deflect the attack so it takes no
damage or effects by making a successful DC 25 Reflex save. The
sepid must be aware of the attack and not be flat-footed. This
deflection does not consume an action.'
The first line of the ability implies that it should function against ranged attacks of some form or another as well as spells, but the later lines make no mention of it. Does the Sepid's ability work against;
a) Just ranged touch attacks made with spells
b) All ranged touch attacks made with weapons or spells
c) All ranged attacks and ranged touch attacks made with weapons, and ranged touch attacks made with spells?
Creative Director
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My gut feeling is that the sepid div should get its DC 25 Reflex save against all ranged attacks. This starts to get pretty cluttered if it's in a fight against a lot of foes with a lot of ranged attacks, though, which is an argument for limiting it to just ranged touch attack spells.
I would suggest letting it save against all ranged attacks, in any case. Bring lots of d20s if you have a party full of archers!
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My gut feeling is that the sepid div should get its DC 25 Reflex save against all ranged attacks. This starts to get pretty cluttered if it's in a fight against a lot of foes with a lot of ranged attacks, though, which is an argument for limiting it to just ranged touch attack spells.
I would suggest letting it save against all ranged attacks, in any case. Bring lots of d20s if you have a party full of archers!
Only the one archer, fortunately! He may be a little put out to find the Sepid parrying him, but I suppose it only succeeds on a Reflex save of that difficulty about half the time. Thanks for the quick reply, James!
I've been trying to figure this out all day.
I have a couple questions about area A1.
The party first appears in Area A1a, with the riddle that leads to the 421 sequence plainly visible. I understand how the party is supposed to come up with the 421 sequence, but what I don't understand is exactly how it works in play.
The party starts out in A1a. The safe way to go here is door # 4, which leads directly out to Area A2. But the party needs the perpetual flame from A1c to progress here. Thus, the party has to re-enter the vaults through a wall of fire which I assume deals full damage.
So the party is back in A1a. The next safe choice is door # 2, which leads to A1e and a neat empty genie lamp.
Door # 1 is safe now, and that leads from A1e leads to A1f with a quiver of frost arrows.
In A1f, Door # 4 becomes the safe door, and this leads to A1g, which has nothing of note there.
In A1g, Door # 2 is now safe. Door # 2 is... a dead end. Now, the room's description mentions that any door can be used to access any room in the treasure vault if the PCs concentrate on the appropriate animal symbol. But unless I'm missing something, I don't believe the PCs have much of a chance as written to figure this out.
Assuming that they don't figure that out, what is supposed to happen when the sequence leads to a dead end? Should that count as passing through the correct number and set it to the next one in sequence?
If this is the intention, the sequence would continue:
A1g -1-> A1h
A1h -4-> A5, after which the party takes damage from the wall of fire to get back into the treasury.
A1h -1 because 2 is a dead end-> A1g
A1g -4-> A1f
A1f -1 because 2 is a dead end-> A1e
A1e -2 because 4 is a dead end-> A1a
A1a -1-> A1b
A1b -4-> A1c (Finally! The key to A2)
A1c -2-> A1d
A1d -2 because both 4 and 1 are dead ends-> A1c
A1c -4 because 1 is a dead end-> A1b
A1b -1 because 2 is a dead end-> A1a
A1a -4-> A2
Is the above the intended sequence?
Or should the map "wrap" around to the other side? If that was the case, we have a sequence looking like:
A1g -2-> A1f
A1f -1-> A1e
A1e -4-> A1a
A1a -2-> A1e
A1e -1-> A1f
A1f -4-> A1g
A1g -2-> A1f... uh oh. We're going around in circles here.
Or, finally, is a dead end literally just a dead end, and the next safe number remains the same until the PCs go through an appropriately numbered door? Is the assumption that the party will just bull through an unsafe wall of fire every time this happens?
If that is the case, we see a continuation of the sequence looking like this, assuming the party will always go in an unexplored direction upon encountering a dead end:
A1g -1 with fire damage-> A1h
A1h -4 with fire damage-> A5, then fire damage re-entering the vaults
A1h -1 with fire damage-> A1g
A1g -4 with fire damage-> A1f
A1f -1 with fire damage-> A1e
A1e -2-> A1a
A1a -1-> A1b
A1b -4-> A1c and the key!
A1c -2-> A1d
A1d -2 with fire damage-> A1c
A1c -4 with fire damage-> A1b
A1b -1-> A1a
A1a -4-> A2
Is one of these the intended sequences, or is the party supposed to figure out the animal teleport trick? If the latter, am I missing a hint that is given out for them?
Eric "Critic of the Dawn"
Perhaps I was misunderstanding it, but I thought that only door #3 caused damage, and you could pass through all others?
Not unless I'm reading it wrong.
My readthrough indicates that going through the next door in the 421 sequence will inflict no damage. Any other door inflicts fire damage. If the group selects door #3 at any point, they not only take fire damage, but are also ambushed by constructs.
Eric "Critic of the Dawn"
Yeah I'm a bit confused with the puzzle too. It seems that even if the party does figure out the sequence they'll end up taking damage as they reach dead ends. I really don;t see my party figuring out the teleportation bit. I'll probably just change numbers above each door so if the do figure the sequence out they will be able to continue unharmed.
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Creative Director
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Yeah I'm a bit confused with the puzzle too. It seems that even if the party does figure out the sequence they'll end up taking damage as they reach dead ends. I really don;t see my party figuring out the teleportation bit. I'll probably just change numbers above each door so if the do figure the sequence out they will be able to continue unharmed.
It's important to note that PCs taking damage from fire in this first encounter is not something that's accidental; it's very much by design. There's a LOT of fire damage in the adventure, and the sooner the PCs realize they should start preparing resist elements and protection from elements and the like, the better off they'll be.
Also, while the riddle/puzzle is a tough one, remember that the PCs are pretty high level now. Dimension door is a great way to bypass he arches, and creative players will certainly think of other methods.
Oh. Now that I think about it as an actual security system designed to confound intruders rather than just as a puzzle for the PCs to solve to avoid extra damage, it makes much more sense!
So if you just follow a straight 4-2-1 sequence from any entrance, you will not only never reach another exit safely unless you know about the teleport trick, but from the A2 entrance you will actually end up trapped with multiple unsafe fire walls between you and escape by doing so. Solving the puzzle still gives you some benefit, though, as you can avoid maybe 50% of the damage and all of the construct attacks. Hammering home the fact that this is a fire-themed dungeon right at the start as James Jacobs mentioned probably isn't a bad idea either.
While PCs at this level should have plenty of resources available to help them to get through this area, but several of my party members enjoy a good puzzle from time to time (they easily got through the puzzle in The Demonskar Legacy in Shackled City, for example), so do you guys have any suggestions for good ways to subtly hint at the teleport trick? Maybe subtly refer to the various vault rooms by their animal symbol (ie. The Vulture Vault, the Jackal Vault, etc), and relocate characters appropriately if they are discussing one of them while they pass through a fire wall? Any other ideas?
*EDIT*: Wait a second, Greg said that the sequence is supposed to work properly from the landing (A2, I assume), but according to my map, that takes you on a sequence of:
A2 -4-> A1a
A1a -2-> A1e
A1e -1-> A1f
A1f -4-> A1g
And 2 in A1g is a dead end. Are you supposed to be able to get safely from A2 to A5 without using the teleport trick, or no? If so, should 1 and 2 be switched in A1g and A1h?
Eric "Critic of the Dawn"
Critic, I have a similar problem. While I love the rest of the adventure (@ Greg/Daigle/ Paizo Crew: another superb effort!), I have serious issues with the 'puzzle trap' on the Entrance Level.
1) While I understand that the 'halve/triple' code might lead players to the doors numbered 1, 2 and 4, I don't see how they are supposed to figure out the correct sequence. The only way - as I read it - to do so is the Knowledge (arcana) Check DC 30, which automatically gives you knowledge of the correct sequence (why?). When I imagine this in play, I think my group will have a lot of frustrating 'd'oh, taking fire damage again ...' moments, because while they might figure out 1, 2, 4, they might start at any of those doors.
2) Adding to that, I am quite worried about the lethality of the Magma Vortex. The way it's written, the PCs might appear in Room 1a, miss the clue, and take door 3 - only to drown in Lava, maybe without any kind of protective spell active. 10d6 per round and being sucked down into drainage tubes for more immersion damage seems ... well, it makes sense from Jhavul's standpoint, but it's quite a lot of damage for an unsuspecting PC. This is aggravated by the fact that the rest of the group don't know where their guy has been teleported to ... no line of sight, nothing. If a fighter falls into the trap, he's dead, period.
Maybe that was intended differently? How long do you suppose someone stays "in" the Vortex until he/she is sucked down the drain? I read it as implicating 'after 1 round'.
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Creative Director
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The problem, to be honest, with the puzzle trap is that it's so strange and complicated that it was even hard for the editor and developer (me) to wrap his head around. As a result, for a fair amount of time, it had been entirely cut from the adventure. I put it back in because we ended up running a little short and we had the room, and because it IS an unusual, neat and complex trap and because it works really well to give the PCs a heads-up that they'll be dealing with a lot of fire damage right from the start of the adventure. That said, in the process of development and editing through multiple people... something as complex as this is easy to "break" with a simple typo or a "correction" by someone who misunderstood the sequence of numbers (or a misplaced number on a map, even... we had a HELL of a time getting the numbers on the map to show up right... and I'm still not sure it's exactly right, but I hope it is).
In the end, though, as Greg said, it's not necessarily something that has a proper solution, especially since the PCs pop into the thing out of order. It's an obstacle that the PCs will need to use trial and error to overcome, as well as their actual powers like teleporation, quench, dispel magic, etc.
As for the teleporting into the lava trap, yeah, it's pretty rough, but there SHOULD be a pretty rough security feature in a place like this, and high-level PCs should periodically face really scary traps anyway. That said, it's no fun to hit a PC with a no-win situation.
A fighter who falls into the trap isn't necessarilly dead, period, since he should have a fair amount of hit points and, hopefully, some other sort of magic other than his weapon to escape from situations like this (be it boots of levitation, a cape of the montebank, or whatever). And we kept the time it takes to be sucked down the drain undefined mostly so that the GM could adjust that time as he felt was appropriate. "After 1 round" is appropriate if the victim has multiple ways to escape, but in the case of the unprepared fighter, I would suggest "after 1 minute" so that he has a few chances to swim out or otherwise escape or be rescued.
In the end, of course, if you feel it's too hard-core of a trap, feel free to take it out or change it as you see fit.
And as for players getting frustrated with the trap... That's why there's a Knowledge check DC provided. If your PCs are getting frustrated, give them another shot at this Knowledge check with a +5 or so bonus on the roll (a bonus from having experienced and interacted with the puzzle for a bit), and on a success you should give them some more hints or even the outright solution to the problem. Even if that solution is "You started in the middle and thus the sequence is impossible to solve so you'll need to teleport out, use magic to bypass the curtains, use disable device to neutralize some of the traps, or just tough it out and take the fire damage a few times."
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Greg/James, one more small bit of errata regarding the Hazneh:
Algebra trap + magma = win. Great adventure, Greg. This is giving CoCT a running for my favorite AP.
Maybe I missed it when reading the various answers above, but I don't see an answer to part of Critic of the Dawn's question about area A1; specifically, if you step into a "dead end" doorway, do you:
(a) bounce off a solid wall back into the room you were trying to leave, and know there was a wall in your way,
(b) exit through the portal you entered through, as if just reflected back,
(c) come out in a completely different room by "wrapping" the map (e.g. from A1g, step into doorway 2, and come out through doorway 2 of A1f), or
(d) come out in a completely different room by finding another "dead end" with the same numbered doorway (so A1h door 3 might connect to A1b door 3, but A1f door 3 would connect to A1d door 3 and A1d door 1 could connect to A1c door 1).
Please advise, thanks!
Looks like it got lost in editing. Here ya go:
If the dead-end doorway is entered out of the correct order, then the user will simply boucne off the solid wall.
If the dead-end doorway is entered in the correct numerical order it will either take the user to any doorway of that number the user wishes(if the room's animal is pictured), or the user appears randomly at another doorway of that number within the hazneh.
That helps - thanks!
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Creative Director
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Maybe I am missing something obvious here; but can anyone tell me what the white dotted line between Area D2 and Area D5 is supposed to represent?
Compare the map on page 36 to the one on page 44. The dotted line represents the edge of teh roof over area D5. Area D5 has a ceiling, while areas D1/D2 are open to the sky.
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Maybe I am missing something obvious here; but can anyone tell me what the white dotted line between Area D2 and Area D5 is supposed to represent?Compare the map on page 36 to the one on page 44. The dotted line represents the edge of teh roof over area D5. Area D5 has a ceiling, while areas D1/D2 are open to the sky.
Told ya I was missing something obvious. Blame it on Matt Smith and that goofy mug spoiling my Doctor Who fix!
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If anyone knows, what, if anything, is the winged, four-armed, tauric creature pictured on page 4? I read through the adventure but haven't seen anything resembling that, unless I'm missing something somewhere.
That is Ymeri, the Queen of the Inferno.
There was another picture of her on the blog a while ago :
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Hi all, I think I may have come up with a path that will let you through every single room without ever once getting any damage (if you start from A2). Since they start on the inside, they'll take damage going through door 4 into A2 and then if we can assume the sequence is "reset," plus take a leap of faith that the "dead-end" rooms will dump you out into one of the other rooms with a "dead-end," (see A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H on my map) I actually found a 4-2-1 sequence path that works! Assume again that the sequence is reset once you make it out to the A5-A9 area, then it is just a hop/skip/jump to get back out into A2. This is the way I'm playing it, and I'm dumping the "animal runes" thing. See: http://home.comcast.net/~dmmcb/5eye0s.jpg
I found the puzzle trap to be a bit too puzzling so I changed the trap to one based on colours instead of a numeric sequence. The curtains of flame are each one of the colours of the rainbow. As long as you progress in the standard colour order of red orange yellow green blue indigo violet there is no burn damage. If you pass through two curtains of flame and the second curtain isn't the same colour as the one you just passed through (I allowed the characters to go back a room without damage) or the next colour in sequence you take the damage.
As a disclaimer, the party never figured out the colour reference and just kept getting burned.