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First: THANKYOU, THANKYOU, THANKYOU, THANKYOU, THANKYOU, THANKYOU!
Second: See First
Third: Isn't the "White Sample" shown in the PAIZO Blog looking marvelous?! This is the fruition of the vision Erik Mona had when he had reached out to the PAIZO community in his post, "4e, PAIZO IS STILL UNDECIDED." We returned to him the proud feedback that we would follow where he led us - and Pathfinder Role Playing Game has been nothing but superior quality and joy ever since.
* >> I can tell from the way it is being held in the photo that this is the bottom: there are tiny bookshelf indentations on the bottom of the book that can be seen in the photo. If I put on my Columbo hat, or trenchcoat, er, whatever...., I can see that the hands gripping the "top" are tight, as though to press tight enough to conceal what I believe may be a huge surprise (but this is just speculation! .... I think this book should/would contain ribbon bookmarks as well!) If so, I am certainly drooling by this point!
The biggest functional requirement for a large number of us is that 1) The system sits on top of v.3.5. so as to make our huge collections not only compatible, but alive once again and 2) The system changes/enhances what needs to be fixed and no-more.
But some of the non-functional requirements such as look and feel are important too. This has included what many have described as "the feel" of d&d. The authoritative size now roots PAIZO firmly as the stewards of our game. AND THIS "White Sample" TEASER IS WONDERFUL TO SEE!!!!
Let's throw in our gushing joy for PAIZO's gushing Quality!
Thank you Erik, Jason, Monte, et.al., you've successfully made your DC 15 Heal Check to stabilize the v.3.5 system.
THIS WHITE SAMPLE LOOKS AWESOME!
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I agree with Mr S. While it's nice to see the rules go from playtesting to a published beta to a white book, ei progress, I'll be even happier to see the actual book in my hands. (that & I hope to get back on subscriber status, soon as well).
Love seeing big rpg books but I wonder how the actual book will hold up to the wear & tear of regular use. The Campaign book had problems with the binding & it was a big book.
Here nothing but success thou to Pathfinder rpg.
RM
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listens...
...hears enthusiasm bubbles popping...
Yeah, maybe an over-reaction, but a joyous one! C'mon, I'm sure others are stoked about this too! PAIZO = Quality. It shows in all their works.
Don't worry, Pax, I'm with you brother. Everything Paizo touches sets a standard for quality across the industry IMO, and I know this magnificent book is going to be no different. I can't wait to swap out my DMG and PHB for this majestic book. It WILL be awesome and to see a visual reminder of what is to come only serves to spark my enthusiasm and joy.
Viva la Pathfinder!
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I seem to recall reading Monte Cook say somewhere that reprinting Ptolus would be impractical in part because of the size of the book. I don't entirely understand whether that's possible, so I might be wrong about remembering it, but I wouldn't want it to become the case that the PFRPG went out of print for some reason, because that's death for the game. It's bad enough that the APs are going out of print. So if it's more economical to print two books, I'd rather they did that instead.
There is something magical about a big, fat book.
I had both the german 1st print of the PHB and have the english 3.5e PHB. Belive me, the quality of the packing makes a huge difference.
The one book soon started to make bad sounds when you turn the pages and the binding was kind of breaking (though the pages did hold together). The other book I have for 5 years now and it took so much abuse, but everythings still holding perfectly together. Part of the reason I like it so much. ^^
RPG Superstar 2013
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Gang! This is the company that gave us adventure paths, and the exceptional Pathfindr Chronicles Campaign Setting!
This is the company working to save DND as we know it, in an uncertain economy.
They know a plain white book doesn't mean anything. What they're sharing with us is we are a step closer to having a game to call our own! WHile one big company abandoned its old school, we have a home here at Paizo, and the white book is one of the signs of DnD Second Coming.
I applaud Paizo's success, and I'm excited that in less than a year, those white pages are going to be filled with great art and rules that carry on my favorite hobby. I know a lot of you are focused on the quality of the game, but let's celebrate this milestone together!
Congratulations, Paizo..and thanks for being here for us!
I seem to recall reading Monte Cook say somewhere that reprinting Ptolus would be impractical in part because of the size of the book. I don't entirely understand whether that's possible, so I might be wrong about remembering it, but I wouldn't want it to become the case that the PFRPG went out of print for some reason, because that's death for the game. It's bad enough that the APs are going out of print. So if it's more economical to print two books, I'd rather they did that instead.
There is a difference between a city setting book that was published while 3.5 was up and running with lots of official and unofficial competition, and a book that is going to be the core rulebook of the RPG.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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The Ptolus book is more than 100 pages longer than the PFRPG, has an embossed cover, includes a CD-ROM, and has a half-dozen ribbon place-markers, all of which make its per-unit cost much higher than the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook.
That said, it'll still be the most expensive book we've ever printed...
Gang! This is the company that gave us adventure paths, and the exceptional Pathfindr Chronicles Campaign Setting!
This is the company working to save DND as we know it, in an uncertain economy.
They know a plain white book doesn't mean anything. What they're sharing with us is we are a step closer to having a game to call our own! WHile one big company abandoned its old school, we have a home here at Paizo, and the white book is one of the signs of DnD Second Coming.
I applaud Paizo's success, and I'm excited that in less than a year, those white pages are going to be filled with great art and rules that carry on my favorite hobby. I know a lot of you are focused on the quality of the game, but let's celebrate this milestone together!
Congratulations, Paizo..and thanks for being here for us!
I'd also say that this is significant because it means that
A. They know pretty much how many pages they will make this, and
B. If they are getting a "proof" of some kind, then they are getting closer to seeing if the size is feasible, from a size, construction, and price point of view.
This is the aspect of publishing that isn't nearly as exciting to us as, say, seeing new class abilities or feats, but it has to be done. If they can't make a book at a reasonable cost that is high quality, its probably going to mean it doesn't matter what rules they put inside any given book.
In other words, the fact that they have this kind of sample means that they have an idea of how many pages, what price point, etc. they have to work with, which is all stuff that has to be done before this can become a reality.
I'm pretty excited about it. Its a huge book, but it doesn't look cheap or poorly constructed in the picture. It proves that things are moving along, and I'm excited about it.
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The Ptolus book is more than 100 pages longer than the PFRPG, has an embossed cover, includes a CD-ROM, and has a half-dozen ribbon place-markers, all of which make its per-unit cost much higher than the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook.
That said, it'll still be the most expensive book we've ever printed...
I'll buy more than one to help make you feel better...and then there is everyone in my play group...
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There is a difference between a city setting book that was published while 3.5 was up and running with lots of official and unofficial competition, and a book that is going to be the core rulebook of the RPG.
I believe that this was the case from day 1, rather than something that came about as a result of the demise of 3.5. But Erik's post is reassuring (although not for my other ambition for Paizo to reprint Ptolus update for PFRPG...).
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Gang! This is the company that gave us adventure paths, and the exceptional Pathfindr Chronicles Campaign Setting!
This is the company working to save DND as we know it, in an uncertain economy.
They know a plain white book doesn't mean anything. What they're sharing with us is we are a step closer to having a game to call our own! WHile one big company abandoned its old school, we have a home here at Paizo, and the white book is one of the signs of DnD Second Coming.
I applaud Paizo's success, and I'm excited that in less than a year, those white pages are going to be filled with great art and rules that carry on my favorite hobby. I know a lot of you are focused on the quality of the game, but let's celebrate this milestone together!
Congratulations, Paizo..and thanks for being here for us!
Yes, indeed. Let's celebrate this milestone! A milestone that happens to make me feel like like a weekend in Fiji.
If it weighs as much as the Ptolus book those of you who, like me, suffer from arthritis will find the book to be painful to hold for lengthy periods of time. Invest in a laptop desk thingie. Y'know, one of those things that looks like a breakfast in bed tray with a pillow under it.
There is something magical about a big, fat book.
Why yes. Yes there is.
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Creative Director
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There is something magical about a big, fat book.Why yes. Yes there is.
I have to agree. Maybe it's the bibliophile in me, but when I picked up the white sample and held it in my hands and flipped through its blank pages... I couldn't help but get excited at imagining what the interior of the final product would look like. Beyond that, I couldn't help imagine filling a book that big with my own writing or drawings, or having someone else do so. And on top of that, books are complex creatures, and even blank they're fascinating. Also fascinating is the fact that the printer created a blank book in the first place, something that not so long ago would have probably been a ridiculous waste of time and resources.
Books are magical no matter what's in them.
Color me stoked.
Books are magical no matter what's in them.
Any plans on what you're going to do with the white sample? Want a suggestion?
Doodle in it. Fill it with neat stuff over the upcoming year. Then give it away as a prize at a future Paizo event. Or auction it off on eBay for charity. IMHO
My day job is to actually take things like the blank pictured, wrap a cover around it and cut out interior pages in order to slap in sample pages so that the design/editorial staff and publisher can get a feel for the final product. They're also used to sell booksellers on carrying the books; you can show a powerpoint or a few pages and a cover image to try and sell it, but it helps to have the "real" thing so they can imagine what it will look like on the shelves.
My day job is to actually take things like the blank pictured, wrap a cover around it and cut out interior pages in order to slap in sample pages so that the design/editorial staff and publisher can get a feel for the final product. They're also used to sell booksellers on carrying the books; you can show a powerpoint or a few pages and a cover image to try and sell it, but it helps to have the "real" thing so they can imagine what it will look like on the shelves.
Dang, I learn so much from the Paizo messageboards.
I had never even heard of a "White Sample."
Well, a "white sample" implies that the content is already known, doesn't it?! So how about new ideas we might come up?! Seems there's no way of changing anything from now on... or am i wrong?!
As Bagpuss pointed out . . . this only means they have an idea of how many pages they are willing to go to, and that that number of pages is feasible. They haven't begun to start hammering out the final product, let alone the layout, art, etc.
Having the number of pages set lets them know how much they have to edit down to reach the proper size, basically.
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Creative Director
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Correct; The white sample's empty. It's just used by the printer to prove to us that they can actually print a book of the size we need, and that the binding and structural integrity of the book will meet our standards. We've known for a while how many pages the book itself is going to be; that's no different than any book we publish, and has no bearing on "locking in" content apart from locking in the exact amount of words and art we can print.
Mine's bigger.
No really.
Some years ago, I did some temp work for extra cash, after hours cleaning at a publishers. I pulled a massive white sample out of the skip, it's just over 6 inches thick! It's now about 1/10 filled with RPG game notes and my group affectionately refer to it as "The Tome". I'll never forget their faces when I pulled that 'bad-boy' out and dumped it on the table!
It sucks to game at someone else's place though - it's far too heavy to transport comfortably.
Peace,
tfad
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Mine's bigger.
No really.
Some years ago, I did some temp work for extra cash, after hours cleaning at a publishers. I pulled a massive white sample out of the skip, it's just over 6 inches thick! It's now about 1/10 filled with RPG game notes and my group affectionately refer to it as "The Tome". I'll never forget their faces when I pulled that 'bad-boy' out and dumped it on the table!
It sucks to game at someone else's place though - it's far too heavy to transport comfortably.
Peace,
tfad
How does someone get one of these things? Preferably 2-3 inches thick. I could find several uses for these.
As long as the binding is more like the Shackled City hardcover, and less like the Pathfinder Campaign Setting (with the bulging cover and blurry cover art), I'll be very happy!
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Chief Technical Officer
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As long as the binding is more like the Shackled City hardcover, and less like the Pathfinder Campaign Setting (with the bulging cover and blurry cover art), I'll be very happy!
This is coming from a different printer than either of those—and that's another reason why a white sample is good: it allows us to make sure that the product stands up to use before we actually have to print it.
(It also allows us to better estimate how much it'll cost to ship it—a single copy weighs more than 5 pounds!)
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As long as the binding is more like the Shackled City hardcover, and less like the Pathfinder Campaign Setting (with the bulging cover and blurry cover art), I'll be very happy!This is coming from a different printer than either of those—and that's another reason why a white sample is good: it allows us to make sure that the product stands up to use before we actually have to print it.
(It also allows us to better estimate how much it'll cost to ship it—a single copy weighs more than 5 pounds!)
More than 5 pounds? I bet it both absorb and transmit force/impact nicely. Hmmm... you might want to contact local law enforcement and ask them to test trial it the next time they interrogate some scumbag... ahem..
Nevermind that... back to our regularly scheduled program! :P
Yup, hardbound.
I believe the Bestiary is also supposed to be hardbound...
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—a single copy weighs more than 5 pounds!
Oh yeah! A big bad hardcover that slams on the table like thunder! The book lovers' equivalent of the hot-rod!
Hum... I was going to use it to show what a spellbook was like but it's over the stats (3 lbs). Oh well, I'll still use it as a size reference.
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This is coming from a different printer than either of those—and that's another reason why a white sample is good: it allows us to make sure that the product stands up to use before we actually have to print it.
(It also allows us to better estimate how much it'll cost to ship it—a single copy weighs more than 5 pounds!)
Interesting -- was the choice to go with a different printer driven by issues with the PFCS HC (such as the blurry cover art)?
I know this is very "inside baseball"...
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As long as the binding is more like the Shackled City hardcover, and less like the Pathfinder Campaign Setting (with the bulging cover and blurry cover art), I'll be very happy!This is coming from a different printer than either of those—and that's another reason why a white sample is good: it allows us to make sure that the product stands up to use before we actually have to print it.
(It also allows us to better estimate how much it'll cost to ship it—a single copy weighs more than 5 pounds!)
This is great news to hear, James!!
Hopefully it'll ease the bad binding stuff & put them to rest.
So 5 pounds eh? Will there be any special shipping rates for this book when it comes out? (just read the postings about shipping & such)
RM
I just made the artwork on top of that page my new desktop wallpaper.
There is something magical about a big, fat book.If by magical you mean annoying to take with you anywhere, yeah it's magical, I'd rather have it split in two just so I didn't have to lug the entire thing around if I'm just going to be a player. I know I'm a minority though.
That's exactly what I meant--I have no idea what all these bibliophiles are talking about. I was just envisioning a lonely knight, staggering under the weight of a colossal book that threatened to make chivalry completely extinct. I've got to figure out a way to be less transparent online...these leaves aren't helping at all.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Interesting -- was the choice to go with a different printer driven by issues with the PFCS HC (such as the blurry cover art)?
I know this is very "inside baseball"...
We're using a printer that's better set up for giant hardcovers. Our regular printer isn't optimized for that sort of thing, so the cost would be higher.
I think the cover art on the Campaign Setting was not the printer's fault.
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Chief Technical Officer
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So 5 pounds eh? Will there be any special shipping rates for this book when it comes out? (just read the postings about shipping & such)
We're looking to see what we can do, but I don't have much hope. Since the USPS eliminated surface mail, it's become very expensive to ship anything over 4 pounds overseas.
I went to the online retail sites for the major carriers, looking to see their cheapest over-the-counter rates for a 5.5 pound package to an address in Germany; here are the prices I got (keeping in mind this doesn't include the cost of packing materials):
UPS: $113.85 (Worldwide Expedited)
DHL: $127.32 (Worldwide Priority Express)
Fed Ex: $114.64 (International Economy)
(By comparison, we're able to charge $44.03 for USPS International Priority to the same address.)
We also looked into the possibility of doing a large freight shipment to a partner in the EC and then having them post individual orders locally, but I'm pretty sure that by the time you add up the freight costs, the local postage costs, and a service fee to make it worthwhile for the partner, we'd be close enough to the USPS price that it wouldn't be worth it.
We'll keep looking, though....