Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Has the thaumaturgist really been used? I'm not sure that it has. I know we've used the thaumaturge base class from Green Ronin's Book of Fiends a few times in Pathfinder, but that's a different class than the DMG prestige class.What happened to the Thaumaturgist?
It has been used already in the adventure paths and would be very suitable for PCs and NPCs from Cheliax (I know the rules are meant to be world-generic, but if the Pathfinder Chronicler is in why not another PrC that's very Golarion appropriate?).As for the Dwarven Defender I wouldn't mind seeing a free for all defensive PrC - call it Stalwart Defender or something like that.
It will be appearing in a soon-to-be-released Paizo product, I know that's for sure! :)
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Here's a thought (since the main-gauche was created specifically for duellists...). Have them have free parries when armed with an small off-hand weapon.
Parry as an AoO. Maximum of once per opponent at 1st, twice at 5th and 3 times at 10th.
This would allow some nicely cinematic fights, that a duellist should excell at.
Hmmm... an interesting idea for the duelist and parry:
You can use your one weapon and sacrifice attacks for parries as noted in the doc.
You can also hold a dagger or some such in your off-hand and you can essentially TWF, except that your off-hand "attacks" are ALL parries. Or, more to the point, you CAN do TWF the regular way if you like, which loses your precise benefits, but as long as you are only parryign with your off-hand TWF weapon, you haven't "attacked" with an off-hand weapon so you still get your goodies.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Before I move onto the mechanics of the PrC's I just gotta say, wow, wow, wow, the art is great.Oh yeah, I'm with the Latverian on this one. As I'm playing a priest of Nethys at the moment, the picture of the Mystic Theurge, in particular, must be mine!
There was to have been a mystic theurge of Nethys in the Campaign Setting book, but alas she got left on the cutting room floor. She may yet show up again as an iconic/sample character.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Why are all the legends barbarians? Why not fighters, or paladins?
Read the entry for the Horn of Valhalla
You're missing the forest for the trees, Leress. WarDragon knows what the HoV do and are. The point is that bards don't just regale the tales of barbarians. Their isn't a strong enough link to the two classes or the magic item.
Besides rolling all the attack rolls for some fodder is tedious. Better for it to keep the Will save, and make have the character make a perform check versus a number of targets AC as a wave of 'conjured legendary heroes swarm his or her foes', dealing some scaling damage.
In my original turnover for the class for the Campaign Setting book, I had stipulated that the "lay of the exalted dead" barbarians were actually neutral-aligned ghosts (which is why they have ghost touch weapons, so they could run around incorporeally and still whack people) with the ghost's "horrific appearance" special quality vs. enemies. Maybe some other stuff. Probably immunity to turning. I'd have to look again; the file is on my other computer and I wrote it in like April.
Anyway, the point is that I felt like the cheats you could get for them being incorporeal and ghost-ey were sufficient to outweigh their low HD as a thing you could summon at mid-teens level.
Your suggestion above, though, that the spirits of the legendary heroes, would be basically a swarm of clashing swords and battle cries and such, is an interesting idea. I have in my mind this vision of them basically working like a large or huge creature with a Trample attack, where they do a move-through on you and just auto-hit and lay out the damage. Maybe they bull rush you in the deal.
Something to think about as an easier way to resolve summoning a mob of mooks at higher levels.
Perhaps a combination of the two could be possible as well. Perhaps
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Jason Bulmahn:
What about giving Arcane Archers some flexibility with what uses they can make of imbue, phase, seeker, hail, and death abilities? Say that at every even level in the class, besides learning the new 'trick', they increase their ability to use tricks once per day by one; so that at second level they only know imbue, and can use it once per day, at fourth level they know imbue and phase and upto twice a day can use a trick from that selection, at sixth level their tricks known have increased to imbue, phase, and seeker, and they get three total uses out of that selection, and so on, for eighth and tenth level.
Increasing the number of trick uses per day by one of their spellcasting ability stats might be another option you could build on this idea with, unless that makes the class too much like a spell-caster for your taste.
Or maybe Arcane Archers could have special prestige class related items (gauntlets?) that allowed them extra uses per day of the imbue chain of abilities?
I like the basic concept but would add one of the following tweaks:
1. Each use of an ability lasts for a full round, not just a single arrow. At the level you become an ArcArc, you have iterative attacks and probably Rapid Shot and/or Manyshot. Why not let you fire it up for all of your shots?
2. Get one trick per ArcArc level, not every two levels. Come on, these powers are nice but not otherworldly in their awesomeness.
Or leave them lackluster but give the class 5/10 spellcasting progression... Either that, or just use Fighter and/or EldKt and make all the arrow tricks one very long, involved feat chain...
I kind of see a niche for a melee fighter/mage (which Eldritch Knight could fill, and could do even better if some sort of channel spell ability replaced the existing feats and benefits), and a separate niche for a ranged fighter/mage (which Arcane Archer could be tweaked to fill). As it is, EldKt has to perform double-duty to fill both niches, because Arcane Archer is still trying to be a fighter/artificer class.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Or leave them lackluster but give the class 5/10 spellcasting progression...
I agree with this.
They are "OK" as is, but having to take at least one level in a Spellcasting Class to qualify means that it is essentially a Dead Level. Why not give them 5/10 Spellcasting progression so that the Spellcasting Class can actually be utilized to some degree.This would go a long way to improving it's usefulness IMHO.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Hrm, I'll have to read this tonight. I like hearing the Blackguard will be upgraded!
It's definately something that I (and I'm sure a lot of others) have always thought should have been.
EDIT:
I actually like the new Shadowdancer. It probably needs a little beefing up, but otherwise I think it would be a fun PrC to play.
I also agree with just about everyone else that a Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer would have to be barmy not to take the Dragon Disciple PrC. I also think it's good that you don't become a Half-Dragon. If they intend on keeping Subtypes though, I would think that they should at least make them gain the Dragon Subtype at 10th Level.
I know it's probably a powerful increase, but I also think that the INT +2 increase at 8th Level should be CHA +2 instead.
I also don't mind that the Assassins have lost their Spells, as I can see the Red Mantis Assassin getting a PFRPG update to help out on this front at some point in the future. I do however think that the "Any Evil" prerequisite should be changed to "Any Non-Good" (as I and some other have pointed out). There are what can be termed as being "Good" Nations that employ assassination as a form of both defence and offence. I know this plays around a bit with D&D's Alignment Guidelines, but I still think it's a valid statement and should be considered.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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One other thing about the PF Chronicler:
I think the deep pockets ability is much more handy if the stipulation of "non-magical" equipment is removed.
I mean, by the time you get this class you're up to at least 6th level. While it's nice enough to be able to whip out alchemist's fire, holy water, a spell component pouch, rope, a crowbar, a silvered or cold iron weapon, or even food and water, it would be much nicer if you could also whip out a magical potion or scroll of just that right kind of thing that you happen to need at the moment.
Something to bring up again when it's actually time for the PrC playtest I suppose.
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One other thing about the PF Chronicler:
I think the deep pockets ability is much more handy if the stipulation of "non-magical" equipment is removed.
I mean, by the time you get this class you're up to at least 6th level. While it's nice enough to be able to whip out alchemist's fire, holy water, a spell component pouch, rope, a crowbar, a silvered or cold iron weapon, or even food and water, it would be much nicer if you could also whip out a magical potion or scroll of just that right kind of thing that you happen to need at the moment.
Something to bring up again when it's actually time for the PrC playtest I suppose.
Neat idea. I was thinking what a great feat this would make for all adventurers. Maybe the mundane version could be a feat for the general pack-rat adventurer and the magical version could be for Pathfinders.
I also think it's good that you don't become a Half-Dragon.
Yeah, I am not a fan of half-dragons either. However, the illustration (which is otherwise good) still shows one so it should probably be changed.
I think the loremaster should get Knowledge skill bonuses equal to their class level rather than 1/2 their class level. A bard has 20 levels to get that full +10 bonus, but a loremaster only has 10. Plus, a loremaster is specifically focused on lore, rather than it being a sideline like it is for bards. Finally, loremaster is a prestige class, after all. Though a prestige class should not overwhelm the base classes, it should be better than them at the specific thing the prestige class is about.
Now, I know someone is going to say, "but what about the bard 10/loremaster 10? Wouldn't they have +15 to Knowledge skills?" Yes, they would, but is that really unreasonable at 20th level? A (non-human) bard would have to use up all of his feats to meet the prerequisites, and I'm not even sure there are enough divination spells on the bard list to meet the spell prerequisites. Even if there are, a bard who's willing to devote that many resources to the class deserves all the bonuses he can get.
I would love to comment on many of the ideas expressed on this thread but I am attempting to respect the intent expressed by Jason when he started this thread and reiterated later on. It would be nice if others on this thread stayed on topic. I've quoted Jason below for reference.
Hey there all,
The Pathfinder Beta Playtest edition of the Prestige Class rules are now available. They can be found here as a 1.4 MB zip PDF. Please note that the playtest period for this document is not until November 24th. As such, if you need any questions or clarifications, please post them to this thread. However, please save your playtest comments and feedback until the appropriate forum is open.
Enjoy!
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Director of Games
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In PFRPG, their class skills from the other classes are also still class skills, all the time (regardless of whether the next level taken is AA or something else), so those four skills are additional class skills.
The Arcane Archer has just four class skills, yet he gets 4 skill points per level. That just doesn't pass the credibility test. Even more egregiously, he doesn't appear to have Craft (bows at the least) as a class skill.
This is correct. Prestige classes need relatively few class skills, due to the fact that characters taking these classes likely have the skills already.. although some are still necessary to support core concepts of the pclass. That said, there is a bit of strangeness in these lists that I intend to rectify.. when the time comes.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Neat idea. I was thinking what a great feat this would make for all adventurers. Maybe the mundane version could be a feat for the general pack-rat adventurer and the magical version could be for Pathfinders.One other thing about the PF Chronicler:
I think the deep pockets ability is much more handy if the stipulation of "non-magical" equipment is removed.
I mean, by the time you get this class you're up to at least 6th level. While it's nice enough to be able to whip out alchemist's fire, holy water, a spell component pouch, rope, a crowbar, a silvered or cold iron weapon, or even food and water, it would be much nicer if you could also whip out a magical potion or scroll of just that right kind of thing that you happen to need at the moment.
Something to bring up again when it's actually time for the PrC playtest I suppose.
As a suggestion, what about (in the same way that you have evasion/improved evasion) having deep-pockets/improved deep pockets?
If deep pockets were generally available (by feat or trait), the Pathfinder Chronicler ability could replicate it, or (if already possessed either by feat or trait) upgrade it to 'improved' version (which allows either potions or more valuable mundane items, such as jewellery for impromptue 'gifts').
Note that what I am suggesting, as far as the upgrade goes (when the base feat or trait is already possessed), is limited to (prestige?) classes which have a deep-pockets ability and magical gear is restricted solely to potions (which are usually relatively easily available and usually capped at the level of effect they can provide) and (maybe) to wondrous items no more than 25 GP per character level in value.
It seems a needless complication to me. The best you are ever going to get anyway is one or more magic/mundane item worth up to 1000 gp at 10th level in the PrC, which puts you at 15th+ level overall. It is literally impossible to acquire a gamebreaking anything worth 1000 gp or less. A 1st level wand or a 4th level spell scroll with enough left over for a couple of 1st level items.
Bear in mind that these are all items that any character could buy and carry at any time. You could have bought a wand of CLW for curing and a scroll of see invisibility or whatever. This is over and above.
Maybe it's important to emphasize that this ability does not create items or wealth. You have to spend the money and allocate the weight WHILE you are in town. The money is gone. It's already spent. You just get the ability to decide after the fact what you spent it on. You find yourself up against an invisible opponent and you reach into your deep pockets and pull out a potion of see invisibility for your party fighter or a scroll of faerie fire. Then you mark off the cost of the item from the allocation you have left in your pocketses.
I think the wealth limit is stingy enough that no one is going to be pulling anything out of there that is not perfectly in keeping with anything easily available. It's more along the lines of "oops, I wish I had bought one of THOSE... oh wait, I did! last time I was in town, here it is!" Badaboom, badabing.
With spells per day, for those classes where a level in the prestige class gives them new spells per day as if the character had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class they previously belonged to ...
Could it be made really clear that this does or does not effect spells known / spells added to spellbooks ?
This is one of my gripes with 3.5 - that the wording can be interpreted in two ways (yes, you do know/have more spells in your spellbook || no, all you get is the extra spell slots, not spells known/in your spellbook).
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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It seems a needless complication to me. The best you are ever going to get anyway is one or more magic/mundane item worth up to 1000 gp at 10th level in the PrC, which puts you at 15th+ level overall. ...Actually, as written, you can use the ability as a means of infinite wealth generation (or at least to pay your day to day expenses in between adventures living in the lap of luxury)... Pull a 1000 gold piece scroll out of your pockets, sell in town at half price for 500 gp pieces; wander around the market and spend 100 GP to completely reload both weight allocation, AND value...
...When either cost or weight reaches 0, the chronicler can retrieve no more items until she refills her deep pockets by spending a few hours and 100 gp in any settlement.The ability doesn't specify that an amount of cash has to be spent equal to the value spent from the pockets; just 100 GP.
Interesting.
That would be either an editing error or an error in my original submission. I'd have to go look at my originals.
The ability was intended to be simply "prebuy XXX gp worth of value of stuff." Then you could 'spend' it later, deducting the amount expended when you pulled something out. The refill of the deep pockets should be:
"spending a few hours and up to 100 gp per class level in any settlement."
More to the point, the entry should be rewritten:
The chronicler may invest up to 100 gp per class level in items for her deep pockets by spending several hours in a settlement of any size. Items retrieved may be mundane, masterwork, or even standard magical items, but nonstandard or custom-built items or partially charged items are not allowed. Each time the chronicler retrieves an item, she deducts its weight and gp value from the maximum allowed. Once either total reaches zero, she can retrieve no further items from her deep pockets until she is able to replenish her deep pockets as above.
[then add the paragraph about hiding stuff and packing your gear]
Getting back to my concern over allowing too much magic item value in, given the existence of both the Magic Item Compendium and the Spell Compendium (and presumably of future Pathfinder Equivalents), there is a lot you can do by going for a 'partially charged' item or a 4th level scroll. [/ooc]
Sure, but bear in mind you'd have to be a 7th level PathChron to get a 4th level scroll, and you can do it ONCE in between trips to town. One 4th level spell, usable once, is handy in the nick of time. It's supposed to be. If it were useless, why bother with it as a class ability?
Is it unbalancing? I find it hard to see how allowing a 12th+ level character the ability to pre-buy and post-choose 700 gp worth of loot, up to and including a 4th level spell scroll, is anything to worry about.
Given the clarification above, there is ZERO magic item value being added.
The chronicler buys "some stuff" when he's in town.
At some point in between there and when he goes back to town, he decides what that "stuff" was that he already bought.
It allows the character to be reactive and pull out just the right item at the right time.
It does not allow them to create items out of thin air or to sell for more than they paid.
Edit:
I seem to have omitted the thought from my post which you quoted that the GP limit would increase with the 'improved' version of the ability. Sorry. Too tired here. I was thinking about that, too, in my desire to firmly cap magic item values available.I actually didn't say anything about an 'improved' version; in fact, my take was the opposite, that the ability was so un-gamebreaking that adding two levels of it was unnecessary.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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I also think it's good that you don't become a Half-Dragon.Yeah, I am not a fan of half-dragons either. However, the illustration (which is otherwise good) still shows one so it should probably be changed.
I don't have a problem with Half-Dragons per se, I just think it's good that you don't become one because of a PrC. If you're going to become one then it should be through the Racial Substitution Levels in Races of the Dragon, of from straight up taking the +3 ECL.
Also, to quote the Description in the PrC Document. I have Bold Faced the last sentence as it is the relevant one:Natural Armor Increase (Ex): At 1st, 4th, and 7th level, a dragon disciple gains an increase to the character’s existing natural armor (if any), as indicated on Table 12–4: Dragon Disciple (the numbers represent the total increase gained to that point). As his skin thickens, a dragon disciple takes on more and more of his progenitor’s physical aspect.
Does the Dragon Disciple's Natural Armor stack with the Sorcerer Draconic Bloodline Natural Armor? I assume it does but it's not entirely clear from the class description.
Example:
Sorcerer 5/ Dragon Disciple 4
- +2 NA from the sorcerer Bloodline powers (due to 3rd level sorcerer power advanced via Blood of Dragon Class Power)
- +2 NA from the Dragon Disciple.
- Total NA of +4.
As a follow up, does the Natural Armor Bonus from Polymorph Stack with this innate natural armor?
The sorcerer lists it as a "+1 natural armor bonus" while the Dragon Discipline says "gains an increase to the character's existing natural armor". The Polymorph rules say the character gets a "Natural Armor Bonus" which seems to indicate it would stack with the Dragon Disciple's Innate Armor but not with the sorcerer's bonus.
Finally, Barkskin apparently is an enhancement bonus to the natural armor bonus. Does barkskin stack with these bonuses?
Here is what I am reading:
Dragon Disciple stacks with Sorcerer
Polymorph Stacks with Dragon Disciple but NOT Sorcerer
Barkskin Stacks with any of the above
A question... if, instead of Fighting Defensively, a Duelist uses Combat Expertise, does he get the bonus from Elaborate Defense to AC?
I would say yes, since I see CE as an Improved Fighting Defensively.
Oh, the art is great! Loved it! I must say, I found it much better than the core book. I'd love to see some of this style in the final PRPG.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Jason Nelson:
The 100 GP only to restock the Deep Pockets being an error, as you posted, takes away the more serious abuse of the ability that I can see- as Deep Pockets otherwise currently stands- but I remain reluctant, from a DM point of view*, to see the current Deep Pockets extended to cover 'low market price' magical items.* In all fairness, from a player point of view, I would be over the moon with the ingenius ways I could abuse the flexibility magical item access via Deep Pockets would give, with scrolls of glitterdust or create water, partially-charged staves, feather-tokens, and much, much, more available, upto whatever budget happened to be available.
If your wand or staff has more than 1st or 2nd level spells, you're not likely to get more than one charge, at which point it may as well be a scroll, since costing is the same for scrolls and spell-trigger items.
BTW, I have never seen DMs willing to sell partially charged items, for the simple expedient of dealing with wacky corner case accounting. Still, since obviously in your experience it does happen, that is why I added the caveat to the ability rewrite above; to wit:
1. No partially charged items.
2. No nonstandard magic items.
Even so, remember, at 1st level PathChr, you are talking about a magic item worth 100 gold pieces!!! For a 6th level character! At 10th level PathChr, a magic item worth 1000 gp. For a 15th level character, whose WBL is what, pushing 200,000? Half of a percentage point of his character wealth can be left open-ended/undefined!
I honestly remain flabbergasted that you find the ability to pull magical peanuts out of your pocket once or twice per trip out of town to be unbalancingly powerful, but I'll leave it at that and hope you have fun with the class anyhow! :)
The wording of the duelist suggests that the list of creatures vulnerable to it's precise strike damage is different from the list of creatures vulnerable to sneak attack.
A duelist's precise strike only works against living creatures with discernible anatomies. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to a precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from a precise strike.
Is this intentional or is the duelist going to have the same list of potential victims as the rogue?
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The wording of the duelist suggests that the list of creatures vulnerable to it's precise strike damage is different from the list of creatures vulnerable to sneak attack.A duelist's precise strike only works against living creatures with discernible anatomies. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to a precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from a precise strike.Is this intentional or is the duelist going to have the same list of potential victims as the rogue?
I was commenting on this elsewhere. My ideal is that crits, not just Sneak Attack, work more-or-less across the board (thus re-establishing the link between crits and Sneak Attack) and that Precise Strike does the same, with the removal of the 'living' requirement.
I actually like the new Shadowdancer.
"New?" Is that a joke..?
Edit: I'm sorry, after giving the pdf another look-over there *is* a change from the 3.5 shadowdancer -- the skill requirement for stealth is lower, and you can now take the class two levels earlier than you could before!
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I actually like the new Shadowdancer."New?" Is that a joke..?
Edit: I'm sorry, after giving the pdf another look-over there *is* a change from the 3.5 shadowdancer -- the skill requirement for stealth is lower, and you can now take the class two levels earlier than you could before!
I like the new save progressions too. :) Since that's all that changed.
Edit: No, that's just a reflection of the currently proposed changes to the skill system.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Jason Nelson:
As to the staff over scroll, the staff allows you to use your own ability modifier (and any applicable feats) to the save DC of the spell effect, whereas with the scroll you're generally stuck with minimum DC. If I'm pulling an item out of Deep Pockets for a Charm Monster because Deep Pockets is the only option I have left for one, I want that save DC as high as possible, and by the level I can afford to pull out a partially charged [/i]staff of charming[/i], my charisma bonus (and possible school focus (enchantment)) is going to put the Will save DC at least 4 or 5 points higher with a staff over a scroll.Removing partially charged options does reduce the options for this sort of sneakiness, however, and taking out non-standard probably kills Temporary Magic Items as well...
Yeah, I know how a staff works and is better than a scroll (though this might be an issue to address in the Magic Items playtest section), but even granted ALL of the above.
Your 10th level PF chronicler, as a 15th level character, whips out a single-charge staff of charming with a good save DC and caster level, which he gets to use once (via UMD, or give it to a friend to use).
Even if we allow EVERY variety of sneakiness that could possibly be squeezed into 1000 gp worth of magic item, temporary, permanent, or otherwise.
Even if we allow every clever, timely use of the ability that could possibly be imagined up to the amount of 1000 gp.
How exactly is this a problem? So he gets to cast one spell, once, with a good CL and good save DC.
That's not a bad thing. That's a good thing. We want characters to have class abilities that are actually useful for something.
Especially when you are talking about a class that is not particularly good at fighting and has no spellcasting ability.
What exactly are Pathfinder Chroniclers going to hang their hat on in a party of adventurers? What is their place to shine?
It's a support character, and one that is able to come up with just the right thing on a moment's notice every once in a while. That's your niche. That's your special trick that you can do that other people can't.
It's an interesting niche, and one that shows up in fantasy lit (Tasselhoff Burrfoot from Dragonlance being the most obvious example), and can be fun to play.
The amount of item value we are talking about is less than 1% of a character's total wealth. Any item he could "pull out of his pocket" is an item that he could just as easily have a dozen of stacked up like cordwood at an insignificant cost. For that matter, it's not even a unique ability, since it's one that ANY character can emulate (not precisely, but very close) at a higher cost if they just purchase a library of scrolls and a cabinet of potions and toss them in their haversack/bag/portable hole. And you can only do it once every expedition away from civilization (more than once if you always go for low-ticket items, of course). AND it costs you money to do it.
I say let your PCs go crazy with it. Buy anything they like. What's the worst that can happen? That once or twice per adventure the Pathfinder Chronicler, a non-powergaming PrC if ever there was one, gets to do something cool and clever? That's not a bug, Charles, that my friend is a feature!
The first rule of good DMing: It is not a crime for a player character to be good at something.
P.S.
(and saves a lot of arguements about just how long it has been since the party went shopping)...
Umm... how could this ever be an argument? The amount of time doesn't matter. When you are in town, you put the money in. You write down the amount of gp allocated.
When you are out of town and use the ability, you take the money out when you use the ability to get stuff out of your pockets. You mark off the value as you 'spend' it.
When you get to 0, your pockets are empty, whether it's been 10 minutes or 10 years. If you're at 0, you stay at 0 until you go back to town.
Are you in town now? Then you can reload your pockets.
Are you not in town now? Then you can't.
Maybe there is some misunderstanding here, but you seem to be imagining this to be much more complicated than it is.
Imho the Dragon Disciple really stands out from the rest of the PrCs, both crunch and fluff are very good. I'd just wish there was a Disciple PrC for some other Bloodlines. I predict that Sorcerer 3(6)/Fighter 1/Dragon Disciple 7(4)/Eldritch Knight 9 Gish builds (with the feats Arcane Armor Mastery and Arcane Strike) will become quite popular. :)
This is very easy to do. The formula is easy to fig out . I may post them later one after going though all the bloodlines if folks would like
Here's my limited ability to contribute, as I havent read the entire thread, nor read the PRC release in great detail, but Ive seen this comment come up, more than once:
Can we remove the racial requirements for PRCs?
Most people seem to be of the mindset of "Yes, go ahead, theres plenty of reasons why these classes could be found by others."
But I think that race is important, and shouldn't be relegated to "a choice that only affects your character at level 1".
So what about this? Similar to the precedents on weapon familiarity, allow a race to treat PRCs corresponding to their race as if they were favored classes. I had been using a +1 skill point per level favored class system for several years before pathfinder, and this always worked well as a way to show the race's longstanding talent for a PRC, without denying entry to others. This way, an elven arcane archer is still technically better at it than a human arcane archer, but both a viable options.
Just my 2cp.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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(edited, spelling)
Jason Nelson:
Sorry, to clarify I was thinking of a temporary magical item variant where the item only lasted a certain number of days, the implication being 'how long since the Pathfinder Chronicler last went shopping?' (where he/she could have obtained it) with regard to 'does it still work'?
Ah. Never heard of temporary magic items as a 3.5 rule. There are spells that make sorta-kinda temporary items, like a spellstaff, changestaff, explosive runes, etc., but if you want a rule suggestion on temporary magic items, yer barkin up the wrong tree.
Or, more to the point, if a player wants to pull that kind of shenanigan, put the onus on them to vett the option. THEY need to have kept track of the passage of time for their temp item. If they can't give you an exact accounting, then *poof* goes the item and whatever they spent on it. Too bad for them.
Getting back on topic, if the aim of the feature is to do totally wacky things (sort of like Batman's utility belt in the 1960's TV series?) can you apply traits, feats, or features of other classes, with regard to modifying the value of items which you whip out?
The simple answer would be no, as that would cut into wackiness.
The better answer is "sure, why not." The PC has invested their character building resources in acquiring those feats, traits (which is a rule from a supplement I haven't read, so I can't really make any informed statement about), or class features, rather than choosing some others.
Don't punish characters for choosing things that are useful. You don't punish a character for taking Weapon Focus or Empower Spell. Why punish them for taking Shrewd Bargainer (or whatever).
And yes, Adam West's utility belt is EXACTLY the kind of thing this ability should be used for, so when Commissioner Gordon says, "Batman, you unscrambled that combination lock on Bruce Wayne's safe in three seconds flat. You must be Bruce Wayne!" You can respond in all seriousness, as Adam West did, "Not quite, Commissioner. You see, I used my Bat Three-Seconds-Flat Combination Lock Unscrambler."
Best. Batman. Line. Ever.
I think there was a Crimson Throne player's guide trait which allowed you to get items at a discount, for example, which if applied to Deep Pockets could usefully extend the range of what you can do- arguably you might have to specify that you were taking advantage of the trait when you went shopping to 'reload' the Deep Pockets.
I would tend to think that you would cost the items in whatever normal way that you cost them. If that means you buy them some deviation off of standard book price, whether higher or lower, then that is the cost that applies.
If you are worried that someone with that trait is somehow going to break the bank, don't. Anything they can do economically they can do as well or better without deep pockets than with it. At best, it would allow you to essentially "buy" slightly more than the usual amount of stuff to put in your pockets. If your max is 1000 gp and you get things 10% off, then you end up with 1111.11etc gp worth of stuff for the 1000 gp they invested (just like they would with any other purchase). Big deal. They took the ability, let em enjoy it!
With regard to mundane items which can be pulled out of Deep Pockets, are there rules anywhere for tossing a small sack of ground pepper in somebody's face to disable them? Reflex saves would be involved, I suspect.
That sort of thing has always been a fuzzy spot in the rules, sort of like throwing flour on an invisible creature to outline it. It depends entirely on your DM as to whether they'll let that stuff work or how effective it would be.
As to actually completely disabling someone with a mundane item, good luck with finding a DM who'll let you do it.
The easiest way to model it would be on alchemical items like thunderstones and tanglefoot bags.
For the "toss the pepper in the eyes" trick I would actually suggest it would work more like the following:
1. Melee touch attack - honestly, you're not gonna throw pepper in someone's eyes from even 5 feet away, so it's gotta be touch.
1a. If the target is wearing a helmet, I might make it a regular melee attack, not melee touch, as it's hard to get a meaningful amount of pepper really for real into the sensitive parts.
2. Either a Fort save to just shake it off or a Ref save to duck away, either one would work fine.
3. As for the effect: I would say a hit would dazzle (-1 to hit, -1 to Spot/Perception) for 1 round. This would represent you throwing it in the face.
4. On a critical hit, I would say that would represent that you actually threw it in the eyes with a good shot, and blindness for 1 round.
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In light of this thread, can we have some explanation of the skill rank requirements for entry into the Pathfinder PrC classes (unless I missed it in this thread)?
On page 52 of the Beta, there are some rules for getting into 3.5 PrCs with the new skill system. However, the Pathfinder PrCs are written for Pathfinder; my assumption, then, had been that the ranks mentioned as prerequisites in the new PrCs are actual Pathfinder ranks and the subtracting (and potential doubling) wouldn't apply as those rules are for 3.5 classes.
If that isn't the case, then it would be good to know, but it seems to me that the final edition should have PrC requirements with PFRPG ranks rather than going through that subtracting or subtracting and doubling process where the requirement in ranks as written in PFRPG PrCs doesn't actually mean ranks... However, I am hoping I'm right.
to me ranks is how many points you have in them, not counting to +3 class bump
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to me ranks is how many points you have in them, not counting to +3 class bump
Me too, but there are two problems with it:
Firstly, the note on page 52 of the Beta. That does mention "3.5 Prestige Classes" rather than just "Prestige Classes" in one place, but it's not really very clear whether or not it applies to the new Pathfinder PrCs too.
Secondly, it would mean that it's as easy to get into a PrC with skill requirements that are from your list of Class Skills as from those that aren't. This also runs contrary to what happens when you try to get into 3.5 PrCs as per the note on page 52.
If, however, the note on page 52 covers all PrCs, then we are in the somewhat ludicrous situation of having PrCs written out for Pathfinder RPG with skill requirements in 'ranks' that don't actually mean 'ranks' at all, but rather mean that you have to subtract three from the number of 'ranks' listed and then maybe double it to find out the actual ranks you need to have. That seems silly, given that the PrCs are explicitly Pathfinder RPG PrCs.
Jason, I'm worried about the Pathfinder Cronicler. Essentially you allow a 2nd level pathfinder Cronicler to pull 200 gp out of his bag for a cost of 100 gp. This gets worse every level.
So, say a 5th level pathfinder Cronicler pulls 500 gp worth of jewlry out of his bag, sells it, and replenishes the stock for 100 gp. Bam, rediculously easy infinite wealth exploit.
I think it was meant to be mundane items costing less then the 100 gp. If you allow this as a DM well...I know I might hit a player with a book for trying it.
But yeah it needs cleared up
Excusez-moi pour mon anglais approximatif, ce n'est pas ma langue maternelle...
juste une petite question qui ma travaille : quand on gagne un niveau de jeteur de sort grace à une classe de prestige, gagne t'on aussi les pouvoirs d'ecole ou de domaine??
Si quelqu'un peut traduire correctement cette question s'il vous plait.
ça doit donner approximativement ça :
did you gain school/domain power when you gain a +1 arcane/divine level from a prestige class???
did you gain school/domain power when you gain a +1 arcane/divine level from a prestige class???
On a dit plusieurs fois (mais pas dans le "Beta," malheureusement!) que non; on gagne des pouvoirs nouveaux soulement avec des "class levels" originals, et jamais pour une classe de prestige -- avec l'exception de la "dragon disciple."