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For the loss of three caster levels a sorcerer gains improved abilities scores, increased BAB, and a d12 hit die. What is not to love. Why stay a straight sorcerer?
The loss of three caster levels isn't insignificant, surely?
Duelist:
Can a duelist use Two Weapon Defense in conjunction with Percise Strike?
I always ruled that way in 3.5. It doesn't say you can't be holding an off-hand weapon, just that you can't attack with it, and you only need to be wielding it to get two-weapon defense (and as per the PF Dazzling Display feat, wielding is not the same as attacking).
It is ultimately a far more useful ability available at an earlier level. I am not sure what the impact of this will be, though.
Since I could not edit my earlier post, I will do it this way. I completely forgot the Hide in Plain Sight is the 1st level ability of the 3.5 Shadow Dancer. I still think it is a more powerful ability that what the Ranger gets, but the Shadow Dancer's other abilities are a bit weak overall.
While I am thinking about it, does a Shadow Dancer's shadows gainthe other benefits of increased HD (such as skill points, ability score increase, and feats)?
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Well I noticed that the elves are required to go Prestige to have anything decent. Also noticed Dwarves are so freaking cool and powerful they don't NEED to have prestige classes. Poor lousy elves are just so inferior.
But I noticed there is no Pathfinder Prestige class. I sort of expected to see that.
Wasn't that one basically a wizard that cast cleric spells?
Has the thaumaturgist really been used? I'm not sure that it has. I know we've used the thaumaturge base class from Green Ronin's Book of Fiends a few times in Pathfinder, but that's a different class than the DMG prestige class.
Not to toot my own horn, but if anyone's the least bit interested, I've updated the thaumaturge to the PRPG system. Not bad on paper, but I haven't got a chance to playtest it as of yet. [/horn tooting]
Loremaster:
The lore ability says it stacks with bardic knowledge. Then it says that the loremaster must choose a different Knowledge skill. Exactly how does this work? Do the 1/2 level bonus stack while the free bonus skill points must be for different skills?
That seems to make the most sense to me.
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I was disappointed to see that the Shadowdancer's Shadowstep ability hadn't been updated to be similar to the Abundant Step monk ability. They should actually dance thru the shadows, like a free spring attack, one which actually allows the sneak attack as they appear from out of nowhere.
I would also like to have the Dwarven Defender returned, but just as a Defender...or Bodyguard.
Edit: Also throwing my hat in the ring for the Arcane Archer not being upgraded to an actual useable class...No one has ever taken an arcane archer in my game, nor will they take the new one as written...no +1 spellcasting=suckage.
Well I noticed that the elves are required to go Prestige to have anything decent. Also noticed Dwarves are so freaking cool and powerful they don't NEED to have prestige classes. Poor lousy elves are just so inferior.
But I noticed there is no Pathfinder Prestige class. I sort of expected to see that.
Maybe you have a different copy than I do. "Pathfinder Chronicler"
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I would also like to join the crowd that misses the Thaumaturgist.
I do have some concerns about some of the abilities. First of all, there's Surprise Spells, which can be used with any damaging spell. No, really though?
"Wow, guys. I don't know about you, but I was really surprised by those meteors that suddenly dropped on us. Were you surprised? I was surprised."
Moreover, sneak attack damage has always been classified as coming from special, near-surgical precision. How on earth is someone supposed to target an orc's unmentionables with a fireball, let alone hit an entire orc horde's unmentionables with the same fireball?
Second there's Spell Critical. Now, while this is a very flavorful ability I can definitely see where it'll lead to silliness when used too much. Imagine the following situation:
"Yeah, I hit that guy so hard that it caused a magical explosion twenty feet behind him, singing him and all of his comrades."
I don't know whether I consider that plain silly or f&~#ing awesome. I can definitely see Improved Critical and scimitars being a popular choice for Eldritch Knights.
Regarding the Pathfinder Chronicler's live to tell the tale ability, does she only get one additional save or can she attempt a new save each round as longs as she still has uses for the day?
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Here's a thought (since the main-gauche was created specifically for duellists...). Have them have free parries when armed with an small off-hand weapon.
Parry as an AoO. Maximum of once per opponent at 1st, twice at 5th and 3 times at 10th.
This would allow some nicely cinematic fights, that a duellist should excell at.
Director of Games
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I would like to remind folks that this thread is for clarifications and adjudications only. Feel free to post critiques in the General forum, but the time for this sort of feedback is not until late November, in its proper design forum. Until then, I would like folks to give these a try. Playtest feedback is the most valuable to me.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
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Initial thoughts;
1) I like that the 'good saves' at 1st level are only +1, instead of +2.
2) OTOH, while that provides a patch for the uneven save progression, the uneven BAB progression remains, and anyone picking up Arcane Trickster, for instance, is eating yet another +0 BAB, to go along with the +0 BAB he got for his 1st level of Rogue *and* the +0 BAB he got for his first level of Wizard/Sorcerer. Fractional BAB is almost required here, IMO.
3) The Loremaster - +3 hit points was equal to Toughness, back in the day. With Pathfinder Toughness being +3 hp +1 hp/HD, I think that the Loremaster 'toughness' analogue should be brought up to that level. The AC bonus and Atk bonus could probably also use some help of some sort. Perhaps replacing one of more of those abilities with an Archivist-style deadly knowledge or Ranger-style Favored Enemy bonus against a foe that they've spent a round making a Knowledge check upon would be more flavorful.
4) The Arcane Archer - the 'iconic' archers of our world are Brits or perhaps Mongols, and yet anyone can learn to be an archer. I'd be fine with the class being easier to qualify for for elves, but still available to non-elves at a higher level or something, so long as it was opened up a bit. OTOH, the class is still a trap of sorts, requiring 6 levels of a full-BAB class like Fighter or Ranger *and* one level of a spellcasting class to qualify for, in exchange for some abilities that are, frankly, subpar for the level at which they are acquired.
5) Mystic Theurge - looks neat. The versatile spellcasting option seems like it might occasionally be useful, but not at all overpowering. For those who are willing to accept the limitations of being two spell levels behind their comrades (but having two spell lists), it's a good thing.
6) Dragon Disciple - wow! The continuing progression for the Draconic Bloodline Sorcerers is awesome. On a cursory view, it goes against the idea of bloodline powers not advancing if the Sorcerer PrCs, but it's really the entire point of the PrC, to awaken and develop the Sorcerer's draconic legacy, so it's the proverbial exception that makes the rule.
7) The loss of the Assassins spells requires something a little *more* to replace it, IMO, but I'm at a loss as to what exactly. The Hidden Weapons power should also apply to other tiny items that aren't necessarily 'weapons,' such as flasks of poison or 'calling cards.'
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Director of Games
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Hey there all,
I just wanted to post up a brief message about some of the classes that did not make it into the pclass document. First off, please understand that space in the final book is going to be at a bit of a premium, so we had to limit the number of classes to 10.
Archmage/Heirophant: Both of these classes are designed to be the uber-wizard/cleric. We decided that the base classes themselves should fulfill that role. Its not that these classes did not have some powers we would like to see a part of the game, its just that with limited space, these became a casualty. I believe that they need a more narrow focus to define them and this book is not the best place for them.
Blackguard: As mentioned before, this should be a base class, not a prestige class. Unfortunately, that means that we do not have space for it in this book.
Dwarven Defender: This was a hard class to cut to be honest. I like the flavor and theme, but it is so specific that when push came to shove, this one got shoved (despite its immovable features).
Horizon Walker/Thaumaturgist: These two classes got the axed as the most unused classes on the list. Although I am sure there are a few examples of their use, they rarely find their way into print.
I do not think any of these concepts are dead, they are just going to have to wait for a future book.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
I would like to remind folks that this thread is for clarifications and adjudications only.
I am not sure if errata counts as clarifactions and adjucations, but since I probably won't remember in three weeks, I wanted to at least point out that the Ranged Legerdemain feature of the Arcane Trickster still references Open Lock as its own skill (when it has been wrapped into Disable Device).
Anyhow, they look good at first glance but I will have to sit down with them more later. Finally, I am definitely in support of the idea of a spell-less assassin.
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Director of Games
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I would like to remind folks that this thread is for clarifications and adjudications only.I am not sure if errata counts as clarifactions and adjucations, but since I probably won't remember in three weeks, I wanted to at least point out that the Ranged Legerdemain feature of the Arcane Trickster still references Open Lock as its own skill (when it has been wrapped into Disable Device).
Anyhow, they look good at first glance but I will have to sit down with them more later. Finally, I am definitely in support of the idea of a spell-less assassin.
Open Lock is the sort of thing that should pop up in this thread. It should be Disable Device.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
How is Precise Strike harder to pull off? I poke you - as long as you're living and not immune to crits, you take the extra damage. No flanking or flat-footed required. It deals 2 damage, critable, per 2 levels, vs. sneak attack 3.5 damage.The incredible AC's a duelist can achieve is one of the major reasons this class works.
By the time you can enter duelist, self-respecting rogues are likely to be using improved invisibility from an item and saving for a ring of blinking. Monsters that can negate this are still relatively rare. Critical-immune creatures, however, are common. And some of them are among the nastiest monsters in the game. Moreover, rogue can use TWF, gaining additional attacks that inflict sneak attack's extra damage. Also, remember, that you gain precise stike pretty late, and pumping it to a somewhat-noticeable number takes several levels. At level 10, a rogue sneak attacks for 5d6 (plus ongoing damage and, possibly, Strength damage) and can do it four times per round. That's actually enough to seriously mess up, say, a fire giant. A duelist precise attacks for four damage, probably adding 3 more from specialization and fighter's ability. He cannot attack more than two times per roung. Monsters do not really care about this piddly damage. And a fighter with a two-handed weapon at the same levels does more damage by simply devoting his extra +1 to hit from the weapon training to power attack (considering, that his weapon is more damaging to begin with). And neither rogue, not THFing fighter must pay for their abilities by taking rather weak feats. And duelist's AC is not that good, considering, that Int is not a primary stat for fighters.
I know it won't change anything, but-
I was really, really looking forward to seeing the new Archmage, moreso than nearly anything else :( it saddens me to see it cut from the list simply because wizards and sorc got new pretties for the base classes. Some of the AM abilities just aren't replicated elsewhere.
Otherwise, good job :) I especially like the brand spankin new prestige class and look forward to givin it a go through.
-S
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Director of Brand Strategy
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I was really, really looking forward to seeing the new Archmage, moreso than nearly anything else :( it saddens me to see it cut from the list simply because wizards and sorc got new pretties for the base classes. Some of the AM abilities just aren't replicated elsewhere.
Otherwise, good job :) I especially like the brand spankin new prestige class and look forward to givin it a go through.
Perhaps alternate class features would work better for high level arcanists to grant them Archmage powers.
As for the Pathfinder Chronicler, this class can be found in the Campaign Setting, so it's not brand spankin new, but is newer than the core 3.5 PrCs.
Finally a Swashbuckler-type worth playing. Duelist is great, excellent work. When I saw the preview at the blog, I was very anxious to see it.
Parry and Riposte, those were ideas I always wanted to implement, they came out very very good.
Now, Jason, you mentioned something about making the Blackguard a base class, any thoughts about a swashbuckling base class?
Again, great job with the prestige classes.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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I know we'll have a thread discussion on all these separate points, but I somehow got the impression that the assassin PrC was going to loosen up on the alignment req., i.e., not just evil anymore.
I mean, it could be possible to be a neutral aligned assassin, right? There could be an assassin that takes contracts on killing evil NPCs, "for the greater good". Any insights on how to adapt this class to encompass good or neutral characters that are "hired killers"?
You echoed my thoughts exactly on this.
Before I move onto the mechanics of the PrC's I just gotta say, wow, wow, wow, the art is great. I was bleh onthe art in the core book but i like the art in this one.
Some comments on errors/seeming errors.
The Arcane Archer has just four class skills, yet he gets 4 skill points per level. That just doesn't pass the credibility test. Even more egregiously, he doesn't appear to have Craft (bows at the least) as a class skill.
The Arcane Trickster, by contrast, has 15 class skills (counting all Knowledges as just one), including most of the combo skills, yet she too only has 4 skill points per level. There's also the issue with Open Lock appearing in their legerdemain ability.
Why on earth does the Dragon Disciple get Escape Artist as a class skill? Why does he get an Int boost, when Wis or Cha would be more appropriate? d12s for HD? I see the dragon connection, but that might be far too beefy.
Why does the Loremaster have Handle Animal as a class skill?
The Mystic Theurge has only four class skills? Why not include Appraise and Linguistics at the least?
Why do Shadowdancers have Diplomacy as a class skill? They definitely shouldn't have Search! Hide in Plain Sight at 1st-level (6th overall) sounds a little off-kilter. More importantly, 2nd-level is so much more worthwhile than 1st-level.
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Some comments on errors/seeming errors.
The Arcane Archer has just four class skills, yet he gets 4 skill points per level. That just doesn't pass the credibility test. Even more egregiously, he doesn't appear to have Craft (bows at the least) as a class skill.
The Arcane Trickster, by contrast, has 15 class skills (counting all Knowledges as just one), including most of the combo skills, yet she too only has 4 skill points per level. There's also the issue with Open Lock appearing in their legerdemain ability.
Why on earth does the Dragon Disciple get Escape Artist as a class skill? Why does he get an Int boost, when Wis or Cha would be more appropriate? d12s for HD? I see the dragon connection, but that might be far too beefy.
Why does the Loremaster have Handle Animal as a class skill?
The Mystic Theurge has only four class skills? Why not include Appraise and Linguistics at the least?
Why do Shadowdancers have Diplomacy as a class skill? They definitely shouldn't have Search! Hide in Plain Sight at 1st-level (6th overall) sounds a little off-kilter. More importantly, 2nd-level is so much more worthwhile than 1st-level.
You make some good points. It looks like there were a lot of errors/oversights with the skills of these classes. The 3.5 shadowdancer from the DMG gets hide in plain sight at 1st level. In fact, the Pathfinder shadowdancer seems identical to the 3.5 shadowdancer.
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I have little to contribute to this thread of VALUE, but I do want to mention that both my group's rogue and it's stealthy fighter both saw Assassin and grinned for the next twenty minutes. What makes THEM happy makes ME happy, so thanks from us for that, Jason! For me, the fact that the Dragon Disciple is actually worth taking now is nice, as is the continued utility of Loremaster. Mystic Theurge was like a Christmas present to me, so, thanks a lot! LOVE all the new abilities, and the continued spellcasting increases. Easily the high point of my day, and a good cheering up was something I desperately needed today! I swear, every new Pathfinder product released makes me happier and happier. So consider me a satisfied customer again, guys!
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Some comments on errors/seeming errors.
The Arcane Archer has just four class skills, yet he gets 4 skill points per level. That just doesn't pass the credibility test. Even more egregiously, he doesn't appear to have Craft (bows at the least) as a class skill.
The Arcane Trickster, by contrast, has 15 class skills (counting all Knowledges as just one), including most of the combo skills, yet she too only has 4 skill points per level. There's also the issue with Open Lock appearing in their legerdemain ability.
Why on earth does the Dragon Disciple get Escape Artist as a class skill? Why does he get an Int boost, when Wis or Cha would be more appropriate? d12s for HD? I see the dragon connection, but that might be far too beefy.
Why does the Loremaster have Handle Animal as a class skill?
The Mystic Theurge has only four class skills? Why not include Appraise and Linguistics at the least?
Why do Shadowdancers have Diplomacy as a class skill? They definitely shouldn't have Search! Hide in Plain Sight at 1st-level (6th overall) sounds a little off-kilter. More importantly, 2nd-level is so much more worthwhile than 1st-level.
As for the number of class skills, remember how skills work in PRPG. They give a 1 time bonus to a skill the first time you put a skill point in it. With prestige classes, there's not a need to list all of the skills that are of secondary or tertiary importance to the prestige class, since many of those skills will have been granted as a class skill from a base class.
So, for arcane archer, with the requirements of arcane caster and all martial weapons, the character will already have had 2 sets of class skills, one from a fighter type class and one from a bard, wizard, or sorcerer class. Therefore, the AA only needs to grant the skills that are absolutely critical to the prestige class and might not have been on a class skill list from a base class used to meet the requirements.
Fair enough. I can accept that reasoning, but I don't think that it explains some of the other fairly odd choices that were made.
This is more in the way of echoing some previous posters ...
I definitely miss the Archmage, as some of that class' High Arcana abilities - such as free (i.e., no need to apply feats, etc.) spell area "sculpting" and changing a spell's energy type - cannot be replicated under any core rules which I've seen.
Why repeat the Pathfinder Chronicler so soon after its first appearance in the PF Campaign Setting?
I also miss the Thaumaturgist. I like the idea of a focused summoner, one which is not necessarily tied to fiends.
Why repeat the Pathfinder Chronicler so soon after its first appearance in the PF Campaign Setting?
It echos the setting and many folks have been wanting it.It replaces the red wizard as a setting themed PRC
Fair enough. I can accept that reasoning, but I don't think that it explains some of the other fairly odd choices that were made.
Like it or not, the Pathfinder dragon disciple's class skills are exactly the same class skills it had in 3E (except for Craft, Profession and Speak Language/Linguistics, which were dropped for some reason).
I wasn't commenting on whether they were identical to their 3.5 cousins or not. I was expressing confusion over some aspects of the PDF, as presented in Pathfinder, not making any judgements based on whether or not I liked the changes or lack thereof.
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The Arcane Archer has just four class skills, yet he gets 4 skill points per level. That just doesn't pass the credibility test. Even more egregiously, he doesn't appear to have Craft (bows at the least) as a class skill.
In PFRPG, their class skills from the other classes are also still class skills, all the time (regardless of whether the next level taken is AA or something else), so those four skills are additional class skills.
Archmage/Heirophant: Both of these classes are designed to be the uber-wizard/cleric. We decided that the base classes themselves should fulfill that role. Its not that these classes did not have some powers we would like to see a part of the game, its just that with limited space, these became a casualty. I believe that they need a more narrow focus to define them and this book is not the best place for them.
...
I do not think any of these concepts are dead, they are just going to have to wait for a future book.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Ah, well I feel much better now. My concern was there would be no prestige class that focused on the deep manipulation of arcane magic/divine abilities. Its good to know they will make a reprise in some shape or form later on.
Less Snarky: What about removing the requirement that an arcane archer has to be an elf? Opening that class up to all races? Is that too weird?
It isn't weird at all. You're just going to end up with players either ignoring the race limitations altogether or creating their own prestige classes to fill the same role - and I doubt that they'll be as balanced or as the Arcane Archer or the Dwarven Defender are. Elves and Dwarves might have created these Prestige Classes and may have a cultural bias towards taking these Prestige Classes, but I believe that they should be opened up to other races.
As opposed to, I should mention, the heirophant and the archmage. In Pathfinder, those classes are called high-level druid and high-level wizard, respectively.
Will there be alternate ways for high-level Wizards and Sorcerers to get High Arcana abilities such as Arcane Fire and Mastery Of Shaping?
Will there be alternate ways for high-level Wizards and Sorcerers to get High Arcana abilities such as Arcane Fire and Mastery Of Shaping?
Seems like a feat to me
Shadow Dancer:
Is Hide in Plain Sight really the First level ability? That means that a character can gain that at 6th level? Whereas the Ranger, supposedly the ultimate hunter, can't get it until 17th level?That is what leaps out at me.
This is how it was handled in 3.5, I believe - and yes, you are correct - it doesn't make a whole heck of a lot of sense. Rangers should probably get Camouflage and Hide In Plain Sight at lower levels then they are right now.
This is more in the way of echoing some previous posters ...
I definitely miss the Archmage, as some of that class' High Arcana abilities - such as free (i.e., no need to apply feats, etc.) spell area "sculpting" and changing a spell's energy type - cannot be replicated under any core rules which I've seen.
Agreed! I will push for any wizard that wants this to be able to just use it form the original. I love those very same abilities as well. At the very least this PrC should remain.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Less Snarky: What about removing the requirement that an arcane archer has to be an elf? Opening that class up to all races? Is that too weird?It isn't weird at all. You're just going to end up with players either ignoring the race limitations altogether or creating their own prestige classes to fill the same role - and I doubt that they'll be as balanced or as the Arcane Archer or the Dwarven Defender are. Elves and Dwarves might have created these Prestige Classes and may have a cultural bias towards taking these Prestige Classes, but I believe that they should be opened up to other races.
If my opinion is important, I think the race requirements for both classes should probably go.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Will there be alternate ways for high-level Wizards and Sorcerers to get High Arcana abilities such as Arcane Fire and Mastery Of Shaping?As opposed to, I should mention, the heirophant and the archmage. In Pathfinder, those classes are called high-level druid and high-level wizard, respectively.
Good question. I do know Jason has a raft of feats he wants to add fairly late in the game, and I suspect some of these might be on the agenda.
Jason?
My thoughts, as I read through the document. Apologies if any of them have already been said and I don't mention it; just take me as agreeing with you. Oh, and not to sound pretentious or anything, but I have been playing 3.5 and designing my own material since it came out, so I do know a tiny bit of what I speak. ;)
Arcane Archer: Death Arrow is useless. A typical character gets it at level 17 (Wizard1/Fighter6/Arcane Archer10), and there is only one CR 17 monster in the SRD that can fail a DC 20 Fort save on anything but a natural 1. And that one, the Aboleth Mage, only needs a 5 or better.
I like what you did with Imbue Arrow; now, you have to pay for enhancements on the bow, and use the class features for special abilities, rather than vice versa.
Seeker Arrow, Phase Arrow, and Hail of Arrows are cute gimmicks, but only being 1/day, they don't actually bring much to the table. I might suggest a number of "trick shots" or something, that can power them all, with daily uses equal to (half?) the class level.
I agree with the people who've said that some spellcasting advancement would make the class much more playable.
Arcane Trickster: Not much change. Sneak Attack has always applied to spells that use attack rolls to hit, just now they can do it with AoEs too.
Assassin: Need to clear up when the sneak attack advances.
Quiet Death is awesome. So is Swift Death. However, I do think that without spells, this version of the class is overall weaker than the one in the DMG. Greater Invisibility alone makes a huge difference in combat, and they're one of two classes to get Glibness...
Dragon Disciple: Hell yes! Even with lower ability boosts than an actual half-dragon, this class rocks. There's no real reason not to take 1-4 levels of it, and even Sorcerer10/Dragon Disciple10 is a very defensible build now.
Duelist: I would allow them to use slashing weapons in addition to piercing, but that's just personal taste.
Anything that Sneak Attack applies to, Canny Strike should apply to, as well.
Parry is nice, but the penalties seem to stack up very quickly...
Since most Duelists will probably crit quite often, Crippling Critical is very, very nice.
Eldritch Knight: Nicely boosted, but still seems kind of... bland, at least before 10th level. I think they really need some kind of armored casting ability, probably just like the Bard's. Arcane Armor Training/Mastery consume your swift action, meaning you can't use Spell Critical or a Quickened Spell that round, and not wearing armor means he's terribly fragile for a front-liner.
Mystic Theurge: When using Spell Synthesis as a sorcerer/cleric, I assume the only arcane spells you can prepare in your cleric slots are the ones on your spells known list?
Spell Synthesis... wow. That ability was really awesome, until I saw the 1/day line. Now they can be fully effective... for round round a day. I'd say at least 3 times; if the class needs harsher prerequisites to balance that, so be it.
Pathfinder Chronicler: Deep Pockets is interesting. Almost seems more like a feat chain than a class feature, though.
Epic Tale is pretty nice; make some during downtime, and you've got a reserve for when you run out of music.
Inspire Action is awesome.
Why are all the legends barbarians? Why not fighters, or paladins?
As to the Race Requirements of some Prestige Classes, on one hand I like the idea of each race getting an Iconic PrC. It helps define the race and it is part of the PrC concept that not everybody can gain access to these classes. They are supposed to be Prestigious.
On the other hand if there are no alternative "Archer" PrCs, then where do other races turn for options? Or worse, we end up with a dozen "Archer PrCs" from different sources.
I would suggest using a sidebar with Substitution levels for Humans emulating an Elven Arcane Archer, Dwarven Defender or other Race-focused PrC. From a "real-wrold" point of view, there would be those who would try to mimic what they see, but actually adapt the "elven" concepts to something more "human" and change things in the process.
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Why are all the legends barbarians? Why not fighters, or paladins?
Read the entry for the Horn of Valhalla
You're missing the forest for the trees, Leress. WarDragon knows what the HoV do and are. The point is that bards don't just regale the tales of barbarians. Their isn't a strong enough link to the two classes or the magic item.
Besides rolling all the attack rolls for some fodder is tedious. Better for it to keep the Will save, and make have the character make a perform check versus a number of targets AC as a wave of 'conjured legendary heroes swarm his or her foes', dealing some scaling damage.
Anyways,
Arcane Archer: Death Arrow is useless.
Pretty much. I'm not sure what the perfect answer would be, but even making it be 10+class level+spellcasting ability modifier would be a lot better. Not only would it then naturally scale into epic, but it would profit those who continued as well as reflect a higher DC which it needs.
Imbue Arrow
This is an improvement, but they need to take it one step further.
Essentially, they need to do what they did to the paladin's celestial weapon ability. Instead of saying you pick between flaming, frost, etc, they should allow you to just pick any +1 enhancement ability. Thus, later at 9th level of so, you should be able to add a total of +5 abilities in whatever combination you choose. The design is not only more elegant, but it offers more choices for players, and makes further products more meaningful to the class (i.e. every weapon enhancement is something a player of this class would be interested in looking at). Soulbows and soulknives already have this ability from 3.5, and PF gave it to paladins in a similar manner in Beta.
Seeker Arrow, Phase Arrow, and Hail of Arrows are cute gimmicks, but only being 1/day, they don't actually bring much to the table. I might suggest a number of "trick shots" or something, that can power them all, with daily uses equal to (half?) the class level.
I'm fine with them the way they are. I agree that making a list of 'archer talents' like rogue or fighter talents would be a good idea, with seeker, phase, and hail being some of those choices.
I agree with the people who've said that some spellcasting advancement would make the class much more playable.
It would add power to the class for sure. Not sure it would be necessary if they made the other changes. Even if not, it probably wouldn't hurt.
Arcane Trickster: Not much change.
That's a good thing, imo. The class was solid and powerful as it was. I'm glad they didn't mess with it, as it would have been all too easy to mess it up.
Assassin:Quiet Death is awesome. So is Swift Death
Agreed on both accounts.
I personally approve of them ditching the spells. Hidden Weapons is cool: a nice piece of flavor-centric mechanic.
Dragon Disciple:this class rocks
Agreed. The old class was so awesome in terms of flavor, but so sucky in crunch. This one actually delivers on both. I was curious on how they'd handle it, what with bloodlines already in play. Well done.
My only issue is with the lack of boost to Cha. For a spellcasting class that uses Cha, and for Dragons and half-dragons who have higher Charisma, you'd think they'd give the +2 Cha, even if that meant not giving the Int or as much of the Str boost.
Duelist: I would allow them to use slashing weapons in addition to piercing, but that's just personal taste.
Well, you'd have to word it in a certain way so that characters wielding bastard swords or dwarven axes in one hand wouldn't apply. But yes, I would think that someone using a scimitar or longsword shouldn't certainly be able to make use of these abilities.
Anything that Sneak Attack applies to, Canny Strike should apply to, as well.
Do you mean Piercing Strike? If so, I agree, since the same reasoning would seem to apply to their reasons for expanding sneak attack for rogues.
Parry is nice, but the penalties seem to stack up very quickly...
True. If monks get basically an extra attack for free, the duelist should be able to eventually get an extra attack at their highest attack bonus -but only to parry.
Since most Duelists will probably crit quite often, Crippling Critical is very, very nice.
Indeed.
All in all, the revision is an improvement to the DMG one. I'm still not sure it is up to par though, especially when compared to the new, better base classes of Beta.
Eldritch Knight: Nicely boosted, but still seems kind of... bland, at least before 10th level. I think they really need some kind of armored casting ability, probably just like the Bard's. Arcane Armor Training/Mastery consume your swift action, meaning you can't use Spell Critical or a Quickened Spell that round, and not wearing armor means he's terribly fragile for a front-liner.
Ditto on the analysis. With classes like Duskblade around, this one needs some boosting. The Spell Critical is nice, but they needed more stuff like that. They either need to be able to wear some form of armor (like Duskblade can), or gain an ability that them gain 'spell armor'. They could do that either by just granting them a class ability that allows them to craft a scaling 'mage armor' variant that was always active or by allowing them to sack a spell to gain an armor bonus equal to their class level + the spell sacked.
Loremaster
Nothing really changed here, save for the expected conversion of the lore ability to match Beta bards. Can't say what I would want different (maybe bonus on divination spells?).
Mystic Theurge: Combined Spells
That's a nice ability. I'm not sure if it is a little too rigid, but maybe that's to force people from dipping to power game.
Spell Synthesis... wow. That ability was really awesome, until I saw the 1/day line. Now they can be fully effective... for round round a day. I'd say at least 3 times; if the class needs harsher prerequisites to balance that, so be it.
Or make it so that it is taxing. (i.e. following round, they cast spells at CL-2 or something). I'd still think putting a max on it would be good, just like clerics and channeling energy. However, choosing which ability score to tie it to would be sticky due to all the combinations, so maybe make it 1/2 class level/day. I'd give it to them earlier instead of a capstone, but only if some taxing or cost existed (not XP or gp though).
Shadowdancer
They failed me on this one. The class didn't change at all as far as I could tell. It looks only like a good class to dip into to gain HiPS, or maybe the second level. It's a class that has a lot of potential, but they didn't make anything of it beyond what it already was.