Director of Games
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Hey there all,
The Pathfinder Beta Playtest edition of the Prestige Class rules are now available. They can be found here as a 1.4 MB zip PDF. Please note that the playtest period for this document is not until November 24th. As such, if you need any questions or clarifications, please post them to this thread. However, please save your playtest comments and feedback until the appropriate forum is open.
Enjoy!
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Exciting!
DROOOOOOL!
Thank you! Downloaded and reading.... :)
Nice nice nice nice nice! Kind of sad to see the dwarven defender gone, as well as the archmage (makes Big K in RotRL a bit tough to update...), but I can deal with it :D Woooooo Dragon Disciple!
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Nice nice nice nice nice! Kind of sad to see the dwarven defender gone, as well as the archmage (makes Big K in RotRL a bit tough to update...), but I can deal with it :D Woooooo Dragon Disciple!
Yeah, it seems to me that Archmage (as well as Hierophant, to a lesser extent) did turn up enough in previous material that it might be cool to have a version of them. Still, maybe they'll update some more PrCs before the release.
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Creative Director
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Nice nice nice nice nice! Kind of sad to see the dwarven defender gone, as well as the archmage (makes Big K in RotRL a bit tough to update...), but I can deal with it :D Woooooo Dragon Disciple!
Actually... the reason the archmage and the hierophant are gone is because in the PF RPG, spellcasting classes get high-level powers and abilities, unlike the 3.5 version which is only spells, really. The hope is that the role of "archmage" or "hierophant" will instead be handled simply by high level wizards or sorcerers or clerics or druids.
Big K would become a 20th-level transmuter in the PF RPG version, in other words.
And we'd get to use the words hierophant and archmage again without being limited to characters who have levels in those classes. Which is nice.
[tinfoil hat] Alright. How much did Merisiel bribe the Paizo staff? So Elves get to keep their Arcane Archer prestige class, but dwarves don't get to keep their Dwarven Defender? This is a case of blatant discrimination, motivated by bribes by those sneaky elves.... [/tinfoil hat]
Nuhu, it wasn't Merisiel who bribed them, it was Calistria.
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Director of Games
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what happened to the Blackguard? What are the plans for this class?
As I mentioned in another thread, the blackguard got cut due the fact that the class deserves to be a base class, not locked away as a prestige class. Unfortunately, I am not sure that we will have the room to explore this option in the core book.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
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Sad to see that precise strike doesn't work against undead (unlike sneak attack). It's not so strong (compared to sneak attack) that I'd have thought there would be a problem in allowing it to work across the board (and it's about time that criticals were allowed in the same way as sneak attack, if you ask me)(which you didn't).
I like the artwork - even when it's only brown/white line drawings, the quality of the art is still self-evident.
I weep for the assassin's lost spells and the death of the blackguard as a prestige class. That will make converting a goodly number of my villains problematic, especially as the blackguards in question can ditch the Improved Sunder feat at last!
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what happened to the Blackguard? What are the plans for this class?As I mentioned in another thread, the blackguard got cut due the fact that the class deserves to be a base class, not locked away as a prestige class. Unfortunately, I am not sure that we will have the room to explore this option in the core book.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Jason,
Thanks for the reply. If it will not make the final cut, will it be available as a web enhancement or will it have to wait for another book?
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Count me as another who's loving the prestige classes, but missing the Dwarven Defender. I'd be fine with arcane archer losing the elven tie in, as well as the Dwarven Defender losing the dwarven requiremen (though this would require re-naming the PrC.)
I think there is definately room for a more defensive focused martial PrC, especially if it gained some abilities to more actively guard adjacent allies and cause enemies to fight it/provoke attacks by ignoring it, etc.
Also, I like what was done with the good saving throw progression to deter prestige classes from being a saving throw bump. Is this a sign of multiclassing rules in regards to saving throws in general perhaps?
Well, it kind of feels like holding back an avalanche at this point, but no, I really don't want Arcane Archers to be opened to any race, and I do like Dwarven Defenders, and would like for them to remain dwarven.
Of course, it would be nice for all of the assassin spells in 3.5 supplements not to be invalidated content, and for Eldritch Knights to not be really close to getting most of what fighters get and a nearly full spellcasting progression as well.
I know, push the boundaries first, then wait for things to get reigned back in. Just not seeing a lot of reigning going on.
Well, it kind of feels like holding back an avalanche at this point, but no, I really don't want Arcane Archers to be opened to any race, and I do like Dwarven Defenders, and would like for them to remain dwarven.
Just so you don't feel lonely standing under the avalanche: I'm with you on the Arcane Archer and the Dwarven Defender. On the former, I'm not too worried, since it still has the requirement in Beta.
I must say that I prefer the art in the web enhancement to the art in the Beta.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Well, it kind of feels like holding back an avalanche at this point, but no, I really don't want Arcane Archers to be opened to any race, and I do like Dwarven Defenders, and would like for them to remain dwarven.
I don't know if I'd say you're holding back an avalanche - while I said I'd be fine with it, I'd also be fine with keeping them race specific. To me it's more important to have a defender PrC though than to keep it Dwarven and to keep the Arcane Archer elven.
Of course, it would be nice for all of the assassin spells in 3.5 supplements not to be invalidated content, and for Eldritch Knights to not be really close to getting most of what fighters get and a nearly full spellcasting progression as well.
I know, push the boundaries first, then wait for things to get reigned back in. Just not seeing a lot of reigning going on.
There aren't THAT many assassin spells out there that aren't on another spell list, and it should be pretty easy to assign them a Sor/Wiz spell level and keep them in use. Also, you can easily make a more magical assassin PrC that loses some of the other abilities and gains more spell abilities. Basically, this could lead to many different flavors of assassin PrC, similar to how the Pathfinder Red Mantis Assassin PrC is a variant type. I can see having a variety of Assassin type PrCes out there, to represent different guilds.
I do agree that Eldrich Knight seems a bit too good now. They do skip a few bonus feats, but with the quicker feat progression, there's still lots of feat selections they do get. They also lose out on the fight weapon and armor training progression. I'd rather see them skip the bonus feats entirely, and gain a few more special abilities that combine combat and spellcasting. Maybe an ability to quicken personal spells of up to a certain level a few times per day, so they can jump into combat and not spend the first round or two casting shield or other personal buff spells that enhance their combat abilities.
Notice that Good Saving Throw progressions have been changed. They now start with +1 instead of +2. I would actually recommend to apply this change to base classes too.
Thank you Paizo for making this change at least for prestige classes - I have been calling for something similar for a long time now, though the options I suggested were a bit more comprehensive and placed more emphasis for backward compatibility of at least the single-class characters (non-issue if the change only applies to Prestige Classes of course).
I do agree that Eldritch Knight seems a bit too good now.
And Seltyiel looks like he wants to keep it that way.
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Creative Director
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I know, push the boundaries first, then wait for things to get reigned back in. Just not seeing a lot of reigning going on.
You won't see reigning happen at all, I suspect, until the Prestige Class portion of the Beta playtest comes up in a few weeks. For now... we're still in boundary pushing stage.
Maybe what's needed is ONE general 'archer/wizard' prestige class and if you're an elf, half elf, or spend time and effort training with elves, you can take it one way, and if you're a dwarf you can go another...
That class is still Eldritch Knight. Arcane Archer still provides no continuing spellcasting progression, so a wizard/archer still has no use for it.
James Jacobs:
Do the new 'iconics' for the Prestige classes have names yet? Teh Eldritch Knight seems familiar, but I don't recall having seen the others before....
Cant recall his name but he is the last Iconic
What happened to the Thaumaturgist?
It has been used already in the adventure paths and would be very suitable for PCs and NPCs from Cheliax (I know the rules are meant to be world-generic, but if the Pathfinder Chronicler is in why not another PrC that's very Golarion appropriate?).
As for the Dwarven Defender I wouldn't mind seeing a free for all defensive PrC - call it Stalwart Defender or something like that.