First, a minor thought about talents:
I think hide in plain sight would make a good advanced talent. Maybe camouflage, too. Maybe camouflage would be a prerequisite to hide in plain sight.
Of course, both would work anywhere, unlike the ranger's abilities.
But now for the big one: Trapfinding.
The way it works, it's a dinosaur: A class feature that camouflages as a skill.
I'd say let the Trapfinding we know now go the way of Track. Let everyone discover and disarm any trap he likes (and is skilled enough to discover and disarm).
To let rogues stay the masters of traps, change Trapfinding. I see two possibilities:
Of course, it could be both of the above.
This would make the skills equally useful for everyone - just like survival is now, without the track feat.
It also makes more sense for everyone to be able to spot traps - after all, we're talking about the proverbial eagle-eye ranger with the +50 to spot who can't spot a trap that should be laughably obvious for him.
Finally, it makes traps manageable for parties without a rogue.
The rogue would still get to shine in this specialty of his.
And granting a rogue an automatic check would mean that the tedious "I check every square in this dungeons for traps" stuff some people still do would be a relic of the past.
And granting a rogue an automatic check would mean that the tedious "I check every square in this dungeons for traps" stuff some people still do would be a relic of the past.
You might just have something there.
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I'd say let the Trapfinding we know now go the way of Track. Let everyone discover and disarm any trap he likes (and is skilled enough to discover and disarm).To let rogues stay the masters of traps, change Trapfinding. I see two possibilities:
Half your rogue level to perception checks to find traps as well as disable device checks to disarm them.
Give rogues an automatic check if they get within 10 feet of a trap, just like elves and secret doors.
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Absolutely. It's never made sense to me that a Ranger (who is supposedly skilled to search for things on the ground) would never be able to notice a trap set in the floor. Why shouldn't they? The bonus to the skills for a Rogue keeps it as the supreme trapfinder in the group, but doesn't oust others from the possibility.
Im not entirely sure about the perception bonus, even though I like it, but I am absolutely positive on the automatic perception check for traps nearby.
The constant "I'm checking for traps" is really annoying. And it makes the whole class annoying to play in dungeons.
Im not entirely sure about the perception bonus, even though I like it, but I am absolutely positive on the automatic perception check for traps nearby.
The really tricky bit about the perception bonus comes in with backward compatibility. In 3.5, a lvl 10 rogue with maxed ranks in search/disable device and INT 14 would have +15 to the check (barring skill focus and the like). In Pathfinder, the same rogue would have +20. That means either the trap is ludicrously easy, or it needs to have a higher DC. Either way, it doesn't flow quite right. That's when you have to prioritize what's important in the game: fitting in with other 3.5 material, "fixing" the system (whether or not it's a fix/needs fixing is up for debate), of finding some middle ground.
Rogues automatically getting a check for traps would very nicely mirror the elf racial ability to automatically get a check for secret doors. A bonus on top of that might be overkill, but, yeah, give the rogues the auto-check, and let everyone else check if they so choose. The game will play a lot faster and more smoothly when rogues in dungeons are involved, rangers can be trapfinders if they work at it, and we get rid of a restriction that really has no reasonable in-game explanation.
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I've been in support on this on other threads with KaeYoss. Trapfinding should be part of a Perception skill check for all characters to be able to do. This eliminates the rogue as the only "we have to have one in our party if we're going to be successful" character class. There are five different classes that can heal wounds for instance, two that can turn, three that can cast arcane spells...
The rogue should simply have more talent with it.
1) The rogue as part of his class features, gets an uncanny awareness - allowing him the chance of spotting it without actively searching - a chance to notice it just before it goes off. Also tie in his Uncanny Dodge Trapfinding bonus to his ability to find it.
2) His later talent to have full movement also helps in this endeavor
So in summation - although traps should be able to be found by anyone - the rogue is still the natural at it and the best at it.
And this really doesn't open it up to everyone - with many classes relegated to only 2 skill points per level, there are very few who are going to want to try to specialize in that - but at least the option is there in case there is no rogue.
Robert
I've been using auto searching for traps for a while. Just before the trap goes they get a auto search to stop it. Its been working well for me/us.
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I think I might be able to get behind some of the trapfinding ideas presented above. The inability to find traps without a rogue has always been a pet peeve of mine.
I will give this some thought.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
WOOHOO!!! It's always been a pet-peeve of mine, too.
So too has been the chronic game slowing mechanic of the rogue player indicating his "searching" every square all the way through the dungeon.
It wasn't until I played DDO (dungeon and dragons online) that I ever thought to include an automatic chance of spotting them (a la elfdar on the secret doors), and fell in love with the concept.
Robert
To let rogues stay the masters of traps, change Trapfinding. I see two possibilities:
Half your rogue level to perception checks to find traps as well as disable device checks to disarm them.
Give rogues an automatic check if they get within 10 feet of a trap, just like elves and secret doors. Of course, it could be both of the above.
These are both absolutely great ideas and I love them. You have my full support regarding the need for these changes and also for enabling all classes to search for traps of any DC that would become possible if these features were implemented.
Importantly, however, the DCs for finding traps should change if this is implemented. I would recommend adding +5 to DCs for finding traps - thus it would take at least DC 15 to find a normal decently hidden trap and magical traps would have a DC of 30 + spell level.
On that note, we could probably have at least one feat (available to all characters) that enhances trap-finding by giving a +4 bonus to perception when looking for traps. This would enable non-rogues who really wanted to become good at finding traps to invest a feat into this. I would call the rogue abilities Trap Sense, whereas the new feat would be called Trapfinding, but due to game history it might have to be the other way around.
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Importantly, however, the DCs for finding traps should change if this is implemented. I would recommend adding +5 to DCs for finding traps - thus it would take at least DC 15 to find a normal decently hidden trap and magical traps would have a DC of 30 + spell level.
On that note, we could probably have at least one feat (available to all characters) that enhances trap-finding by giving a +4 bonus to perception when looking for traps. This would enable non-rogues who really wanted to become good at finding traps to invest a feat into this. I would call the rogue abilities Trap Sense, whereas the new feat would be called Trapfinding, but due to game history it might have to be the other way around.
I agree with this implementation as well. The +4 bonus works on just that ONE aspect of Perception skill - as Combat Casting affects just that one aspect of Spellcraft checks.
Great thinking.
Robert
A lot of what's being talked about here was discussed during the Alpha, in this thread. It may be helpful to have a look at that before many of the same arguments against are brought out.
Here are some of my comments from the previous thread:
After reading the thread I must say that I'm not strongly commited one way or another, although everyone's arguments have been well thought out and expressed.
I don't think the rogue would be crippled if Trapfinding was made into a feat. After all, feats are a finite resource for each class. To take a feat like Trapfinding would mean you're choosing to expend a resource that may be better spent elsewhere for your class. It's choice the player would make.
That said, I'd like to concur with some other posters in suggesting that Trapfinding should be handled as the Ranger's Track has been handled in the Alpha; Rogues get a bonus to Perception checks when searching for traps, but anyone can search for and find them. If nothing else it feels consistent with Track.
Anecdotally, Trapfinding is something I've house-ruled a bit in my home 3.5 campaign and more recently in my Pathfinder tests. At 3rd level when rogues gain Trap Sense I also add in a passive element to their Trapfinding ability subbing in Spot instead of Search. This has translated quite nicely into my Pathfinder testing due to the Spot/Search -> Perception consolidation. Maybe this is another element that could be added to the rogue class skill list to keep them on top of the trapfinding game?
J.R., by passive element, do you mean they automatically get a Search/Perception check within a certain range of a trap? That suggestion was given too,and unlike making it the same as Track (which Brit O is convinced will ruin the DC system), that provides a bonus to rogues that is worth it while letting others be capable of trap finding if the group lacks a rogue altogether.I do indeed mean automatically getting a check if they pass within 10 feet of a trap, similar to elves and secret doors. In my games as the DM I make this check for the player and either inform them verbally that they notice something suspicious, or pass them a note.
It tends to speed things up a little since the rogue player knows they're keeping an eye out at all times. They still actively search things that stand out like chests, but this does away with the tedious checking every 5 feet of a 50' long hallway.
The point here is to give rogues a little something extra in the Trapfinding department. This would be especially relevant if Trapfinding was made a feat or incorporated into the Perception skill.
Sorry if this feels rushed, but I'm under a bit of a deadline. I felt compelled to comment though since I think this is, at a minimum, an interesting idea.
I think that making trapfinding simply the ability to automatically detect traps is a great idea. I'm not so sure about the Perception boost though - perhaps the trapsense bonuses could also extend that bonus to Perception checks made to detect traps?
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To let rogues stay the masters of traps, change Trapfinding. I see two possibilities:
Half your rogue level to perception checks to find traps as well as disable device checks to disarm them.
Give rogues an automatic check if they get within 10 feet of a trap, just like elves and secret doors.
This is Fantastic. I would love to see the auto check be the rogues trapfinding skill. Give them the feat (if it gets turned into a feat) for free, or make it just a plain part of the skill.
I am not keen on the bonus to trapfinding. If you don't add any bonus for rogue levels then traps don't have to change, backwards compatability achieved. The rogues bonus to traps would be they are the only ones who can spot them without actively searching. Trust me, people will still want rogues in the party and people will love to play them with all these cool talents that have been added and the D8 Hit Die.
Oh yes, definitely. While I'm still not too sold on being the Polish mine detector and "door-boy" for my parties, one of my favourite classes (the 3rd Ed rogue) is now all the better! :)
I think I might be able to get behind some of the trapfinding ideas presented above. The inability to find traps without a rogue has always been a pet peeve of mine.
I will give this some thought.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Hooray for us all! :)
I am strongly in favor of "elfing" up a rogues trap detection. It is terribly detrimental to an adventures pace to have to go square by square through the dungeon....oh and hey Brutesquad
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How about make Knowledge: Dungeoneering include 'Trapfinding' in Dungeons....Knowledge: Nature include 'Trapfinding' in a natural setting...Knowledge: Architecture include 'Trapfinding' in an Urban setting...
Then make a feat...'Improved Trapfinding': +4 to finding traps in any setting. Prerequisite: Trap Sense and give the rogue all those knowledges as class skills ;)
How about make Knowledge: Dungeoneering include 'Trapfinding' in Dungeons....Knowledge: Nature include 'Trapfinding' in a natural setting...Knowledge: Architecture include 'Trapfinding' in an Urban setting...
Then make a feat...'Improved Trapfinding': +4 to finding traps in any setting. Prerequisite: Trap Sense and give the rogue all those knowledges as class skills ;)
Bad idea. Instead of two skills (perception and disable device), a rogue would now need half a dozen.
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I am not interested in splitting the Perception skill up again. It took me a month to get used to the idea of rolling it into one inclusive skill, and now I like it that way. As a DM it makes perception much easier.
I also am not in favor of adding another feat for finding traps. Already, if you wish to be a trap finding maniac, you can take Skill Focus (Perception) and Alertness. getting you a total of +5 on top of skill points, wis bonus (if any) and Class Skill Bonus.
If we want to help the rogue then have trap sense add to perception checks for detecting traps.
I think hide in plain sight would make a good advanced talent. Maybe camouflage, too. Maybe camouflage would be a prerequisite to hide in plain sight.I'd say let the Trapfinding we know now go the way of Track. Let everyone discover and disarm any trap he likes (and is skilled enough to discover and disarm).
To let rogues stay the masters of traps, change Trapfinding. I see two possibilities:
Half your rogue level to perception checks to find traps as well as disable device checks to disarm them.
Give rogues an automatic check if they get within 10 feet of a trap, just like elves and secret doors. This would make the skills equally useful for everyone - just like survival is now, without the track feat.
It also makes more sense for everyone to be able to spot traps...
...Finally, it makes traps manageable for parties without a rogue.The rogue would still get to shine in this specialty of his.
And granting a rogue an automatic check would mean that the tedious "I check every square in this dungeons for traps" stuff some people still do would be a relic of the past.
All extremely good suggestions! I agree with them and the reasoning behind each one. I personally like the 1/2 level "skill bonus" mechanic that Pathfinder introduced with the Ranger's Track and I think it should be used a bit more... Rogue's Trapfinding could defeinitely use some of that love!
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Bad idea. Instead of two skills (perception and disable device), a rogue would now need half a dozen.How about make Knowledge: Dungeoneering include 'Trapfinding' in Dungeons....Knowledge: Nature include 'Trapfinding' in a natural setting...Knowledge: Architecture include 'Trapfinding' in an Urban setting...
Then make a feat...'Improved Trapfinding': +4 to finding traps in any setting. Prerequisite: Trap Sense and give the rogue all those knowledges as class skills ;)
I see the point. How about still rolling Trapfinding into those same skills Knowledge: Dungeoneering, Knowledge: Architecture, and Knowledge: Nature and finally rolling Trapfinding into Survival
and having the DC for finding traps be higher
Heres the thought...
Rogues Get Trapfinding as a class skill
Others can Find Traps if they have one of the 4 skills: Knowledge- Dungeoneering/Nature/Architecture or Survival. The DC to find traps increases by +4 for locating them out of their area of expertise...so a Ranger with Survival finds traps in the wild normally, if he is in a dungeon the DC increases by 4 because of his infamiliarity.
This accomplishes what you wanted, others being able to find traps...and still making it the Rogues area since he doesnt have to spend points to do so...
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I think I might be able to get behind some of the trapfinding ideas presented above. The inability to find traps without a rogue has always been a pet peeve of mine.
I will give this some thought.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
You're killing me. Well, the rogue actually. Rogues spellcasting and everyone else finding traps. <sigh> I think my next character will be a blob...he can do anything!
Let me know what class features the blob has I think he might be encroaching on the bard ;)
I don't think this is a bad idea all the way around though. There is certainly precedent for in both in literature and in past editions (heck there were even options for getting trapfinding for other classes in duneonscape).
For my 2cents,
if other Skills are to allow Trapfinding, it should be strictly limited to those settings/terrains, not just at a penalty outside of them.
That has the nice side-effect that it's reasonable for a normal sized party to be able to cover all the common Trap "terrains", even if they don't have high skills/INT, since they each only need to cover one terrain/Skill... I'm OK with leaving it Rogue-only, though.
And I liked someone else's suggestion of "Elfing up" the Rogue's Trap Detection (passive detection at limited range, perhaps only if only moving at normal speed, not Charges).
Hooray for us all! :)I think I might be able to get behind some of the trapfinding ideas presented above. The inability to find traps without a rogue has always been a pet peeve of mine.
I will give this some thought.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Indeed! :)
You're killing me. Well, the rogue actually. Rogues spellcasting and everyone else finding traps. <sigh> I think my next character will be a blob...he can do anything!
Did I miss a rogue update? Did they finally get the wizard's spellcasting progression like I wanted? Did they finally rename him Chuck Norris Ninja?
Oh, now, wait, you refer to a simple cantrip or 1/day 1st-level spell, at like 4th level or so. Saying that this means rogues are spellcasters is like saying "wizards have weapon proficiencies! They're now warriors like the fighter." Massive overreacting.
And the fact that non-rogues have no chance at all to find a trap of a DC above 20, despite their capabilities, is ludicrous. The 1st-level rogue "Grub the Bloody Fool" with a total perception of +1 (from his wis +1) is more likely to find that trap than Jared "Godeye" Treestrider, 20th-level ranger with Wis 30 (+10), 20 ranks in perception (+3 for class skill), Skill focus(perception) +6, +2 for alertness, a +10 item, and, for good measure, a bard singing "spot, spot, spot like the mad mofo you are" in his ear. That's +53, for an average roll of +63. He should be able to spot the trap thrice over, but he can't, because, somehow, traps are all magical (even if they aren't), and rogues have the magical ability to pierce their illusion (even though some people are fighting with all their power to keep rogues unmagical).
Rogues Get Trapfinding as a class skill
Others can Find Traps if they have one of the 4 skills: Knowledge- Dungeoneering/Nature/Architecture or Survival
I was happy when they got rid of track and the way it made different skills work differently for different classes, and I don't want them to introduce it now.
This accomplishes what you wanted, others being able to find traps...and still making it the Rogues area since he doesnt have to spend points to do so...
If trapfinding becomes a class skill, he'd have to sink points into it still.
Nah, keep the general mechanics the same: Perception to find traps, disable device to disable them. Make that mechanic general (i.e. there are no arbitrary restrictions you need to take a single level in a certain class for to overcome), and give the class that is supposed to be good at it (i.e. the rogue) something that helps him be better than everyone else. That can either be a numerical bonus, like two other classes get now (bards and knowledge, and rogues and tracking), or something that makes him better in a nother way (make them get an automatic check).
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I am 100% in favor of the auto-Perception check for rogues to find traps. Definitely something that should be changed to the class as a whole.
As far as the Trapfinding skill, I would change it to the way Track was handled in 3.5 = make it into a feat and give it to the Rogue with a classed-based bonus. Rangers got a +4 bonus when tracking, so give Rogues a +4 to checks to find traps.
This serves a number of purposes:
(1): All classes can find traps, but Rogues are naturally better at it. As they should be.
(2): By making it a feat, it's not something that other classes can NATURALLY do (finding traps with DCs of 20+), but they can invest in it.
(3): By keeping Disable Device as a skill that you can't use untrained, you keep the limiting factor. That observant fighter might be able to notice the trap before he sets it off, but he doesn't have a clue about how to disable it.
I think this is the best way to handle Trapfinding, as it worked really well in 3.5 and handles all the issues that are being discussed.
I haven't thought about rogue talents. Excellent input. I hereby amend my suggestion to read thus:
Trapfinding (i.e. the 1st-level rogue ability): A rogue adds half his level to Perception checks made to find traps as well as to Disable Device checks made to disarm traps.
Trapspotting (rogue talent): A rogue can make a Perception check to spot a trap if they pass within 10 feet, regardless of whether or not they are actively looking.
(2): By making it a feat, it's not something that other classes can NATURALLY do (finding traps with DCs of 20+), but they can invest in it.
I'm against restrictions like this. That's why I'm happy they did for the Track feat. A skill is a skill, and should work according to your skill checks, not whether you have a feat or not. If you have +20 to Perception, you should be able to spot any trap with a DC of 40 or lower, because your percepton is that good.
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see Im not cool with the idea that Tom the Cleric, with a 20 wisdom knows how to find a trap. Having been in the military, and looked for booby traps and mine fields, I can honestly say that you could take the 'wisest person' in the world and put him out there looking, and if he didnt have training in it, he will probably spring it and not find it. There are signs and tell tales you look for, being perceptive isnt enough. Thats why I thought to tie it to skills that a character who 'wanted' to be good at finding traps like a rogue, could invest in.
It shouldnt be an automatic feature of perception...unless you increased the DC of the trap by say 10 for an untrained character to find it. Which is another direction you could take it.
Your idea for the rogue and Trapspotting as a talent is sound though.
I think if any other class than a Rogue wants to be able to find traps...let them invest something in it. I agree the Ranger should be a diferent...and maybe the Bard too as Jack of all trades. But maybe we'd be better served giving them Trapfinding at a delayed level....say 4th, if you dont want to tie it to a skill.
see Im not cool with the idea that Tom the Cleric, with a 20 wisdom knows how to find a trap. Having been in the military, and looked for booby traps and mine fields, I can honestly say that you could take the 'wisest person' in the world and put him out there looking, and if he didnt have training in it, he will probably spring it and not find it. There are signs and tell tales you look for, being perceptive isnt enough. Thats why I thought to tie it to skills that a character who 'wanted' to be good at finding traps like a rogue, could invest in.
You're right: Without training, it's hard to see the signs. A wise cleric won't be able to do it.
But I disagree that this training is in the form of a class feature, and that this class feature, which takes only a little bit of commitment, trumps years of getting keener eyes.
I believe that the training should be there. And it is. It is there when you put ranks into perception. Those ranks aren't a bonus to your wis score (which would mean keener senses), but training about what to look/listen for.
Otherwise, we'd need a class feature for climbers to know how to do it properly. And for spellcraft. And for everything.
So I say: if there needs to be training, that is represented in skill ranks. After all, if you don't have any ranks, you are considered "untrained"
KaeYoss I'm with you on this, it would speed things up and people wouldn't always be worried about not having a rogue, opening up more options for everyone at the table.
KaeYoss I'm with you on this, it would speed things up and people wouldn't always be worried about not having a rogue, opening up more options for everyone at the table.
And in the cases where you don't have a rogue, you don't have to draw straws for "disarming duty" (i.e. walking first, 20 feet in front of the rest, to activate traps).
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You're right: Without training, it's hard to see the signs. A wise cleric won't be able to do it.
But I disagree that this training is in the form of a class feature, and that this class feature, which takes only a little bit of commitment, trumps years of getting keener eyes.
I believe that the training should be there. And it is. It is there when you put ranks into perception. Those ranks aren't a bonus to your wis score (which would mean keener senses), but training about what to look/listen for.
Otherwise, we'd need a class feature for climbers to know how to do it properly. And for spellcraft. And for everything.
So I say: if there needs to be training, that is represented in skill ranks. After all, if you don't have any ranks, you are considered "untrained"
I understand what you're saying. My issue is with making Perception, even more important than what it has become by merging Search, Listen and Spot into one already. Add the fact that now every character can also find traps using the same skill, and it makes it too important. Its like back in the day when a Longsword did d8/d12 damage...every fighter pretty much took Longsword because of the d12 damage vs large monsters.
Im ok finding a way for other classes to be able to locate traps, lets just not keep making things 'vanilla'. Lets have some other flavors, if ya catch my drift.
I believe that the training should be there. And it is. It is there when you put ranks into perception. Those ranks aren't a bonus to your wis score (which would mean keener senses), but training about what to look/listen for.
Otherwise, we'd need a class feature for climbers to know how to do it properly. And for spellcraft. And for everything.
So I say: if there needs to be training, that is represented in skill ranks. After all, if you don't have any ranks, you are considered "untrained"
I can deal with it being in skill ranks... except either it needs to be a different (maybe new) skill or at the very least maybe rogues and rangers should get a bonus to Perception when looking for traps.
If it's just skill ranks then we are back to the cleric with his 18 WIS being better at finding traps than the rogue who usually has a 10-12 wisdom. The cleric is even better without having perception as a class skill.
Maybe rogues and rangers can find traps using perception. Other characters can find traps using perception at a -5 penalty. This would allow you to preserve existing DCs for the rogue but allow other classes to search for traps. This would bump the value of feats like (Alertness) and Skill Focus (Perception).
I feel as if Perception is just too good, as-is, compared to almost all of the other skills. Either Search needs to be removed from Perception and then expanded in usage so it stands on its own (e.g., given trapfinding as well, and maybe even roll trap sense into it); or else most of the other skills need major consolidation work; or both.
I can deal with it being in skill ranks... except either it needs to be a different (maybe new) skill or at the very least maybe rogues and rangers should get a bonus to Perception when looking for traps.
I'm all for a bonus to trapfinding skills for rogues. In fact, it's part of my suggestions. Something like 1/2 level would work, I'd think, and it would also be in line with similar abilities (rangers' track and bards' bardic knowledge).
And on top of that, have a rogue talent that grants them a search check even when not looking actively (like elves and secret doors).
Im ok finding a way for other classes to be able to locate traps, lets just not keep making things 'vanilla'. Lets have some other flavors, if ya catch my drift.
The standard flavour for skills and what you do with them should be vanilla. That's why we have a generalised skill system, not something like 2e's thief skills.
If classes should add flavour, give them some sauce. Rogues will get the "bonus to checks" sauce and an option to the "automatic detection" sauce.
But now for the big one: Trapfinding...
I liked your idea straight when I first saw it in another thread some time ago. I'm already using it in my homebrew Pathfinder/3.5 mix campaign. I handle it like this:
Trapfinding: Anyone with enough Search can try to find a trap and anyone with enough Disable Device can disarm one. Rogues get a bonus equal to half their rogue level to search checks to find traps, as well as Disable Device checks. In addition a rogue who merely comes within 10 feet of a rap can make a Search check as if he were actively searching.
About skill usage in general, I took this idea I saw in "Kim D&D"
Skill usage: Skill usages come in two types: active and passive. Active types always use declared rolls ("I climb the tree"). Passive usage is the DC against an opposing active roll (an active Move Silently versus a passive Listen). In this case, a Take 10 is assumed for the passive roll. When two or more people are competing for an outcome, all active parties roll.
I'm all for a bonus to trapfinding skills for rogues. In fact, it's part of my suggestions. Something like 1/2 level would work, I'd think, and it would also be in line with similar abilities (rangers' track and bards' bardic knowledge).And on top of that, have a rogue talent that grants them a search check even when not looking actively (like elves and secret doors).
Your suggestions are good, altho like others I think the bonus of 1/2 class level is possibly too much and would require adjustment to trap DCs, even tho to brings it inline with Track.
I'd personally have Trapfinding give the auto search, and Trap Sense give a bonus to the Perception check to spot traps as well. I suggest it in part because it, in my mind, it seems to fit the description of the feature; it gives a slightly smaller bonus (1/3 rather than 1/2); it gives an additional use to a feature you'd rather not use*; and it's on the class progression table. Add in a feat to give +4 to the Perception check and possibly allow that to be taken as a Talent.
* While it's nice having an ability that gives you a bonus when traps go off (as they will every now and then) if all goes well Trap Sense should hardly get used :)
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In my game I am allowing anyone to search for traps. The character must declare that they are searching and roll a perception check. I have rewritten trapfinding as follows and added a rogue talent to improve on it.
Trapfinding: Rogues can use the Perception skill to locate traps without actively searching. The DM will roll (or have a player pre-rolled Perception check in the case of our home game) a secret check for any character with the trapfinding ability who comes within 10 feet of a trap. The character is only entitled to one free perception check for each trap that the character comes into range of.
Rogue Talent:
Nervous Trapfinder (Ex): A rogue with this talent receives a Perception check every round that she is within 10 feet of an undiscovered trap.
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In addition, I am not giving the rogue a bonus to perception, here is my reasoning.
Yes the Cleric will likely have the rogue's Perception equalled or beat at 1st level. The Cleric, however, has far fewer skill points and Perception is not a class skill. So the Cleric's +4 (+4 wis) vs the Rogues +4 (+1 Skill Point, +3 Class Skill, +0 wis)looks bad at first. Until you think about it. Within 2-3 levels the rogue will be out percepting the Cleric (Bank on it, the cleric has far to many other skills to look at before perception). Add in the 8+int Skill points and the rogue's ability to elf up the traps (see the above post) and rogue is not going to lose his job to the Cleric or anyone else. He is just going to get a few extra sets of eyes, or in that rare party without the rogue at all, the trap still remains a viable dungeon device for the DM without all the angst of possible Trap TPK's.