I had a player in my game (who hadn't really played before) who requested that he play a non-magical support character other than a rogue, and I got to thinking, the PRPG currently doesn't have an option for this (The marshal class from 3.5 wasn't very good, and I'm trying to run a PRPG playtest). As much as I hate 4e, this player probably would have liked the warlord character, or something similar to it, so I'm wondering if Paizo has any plans to add any new classes, such as this?
What do you think? what classes would you like to see?
The PRPG core rulebook won't add any new classes. There might be extra classes in some books down he road (there was talk about a PF version of Oriental Adventures, and it would probably contain eastern takes on the classes or all new classes, i.e. Ninja, Samurai, and so on), but the core book concentrates on the core classes.
Personally, my first choice of a new class would be a Noble: A mix of riches, political and financial influence, leadership abilites, and a rake's fighting style (think something like swashbuckler, marshal, aristocrat, mixed with the Leadership feat and something else)
Yeah something like a warlord would be cool. But only if he is also a decent warrior. Because i like the idea of a warlord/general/whatever beeing a combat monster like in many fantasy books or wuxia movies. On the other side this could be achieved through multiclassing so...
I also like the noble class idea. Many of my players wanted to play nobles but the npc aristocrat class just isn`t it.
What i would like to see is something like a general adventurer class. At the moment if you want to play "a normal guy" who is seeking adventures you can take the fighter (who is very fighting oriented) or the thief (who is very sneakattack oriented). It would be nice if there was a skill monkey class which could be used to play valuable (in comparison to the other classes) merchants,weaponsmiths,adveturers etc.
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I am curious how one would design a social/skill monkey other than a rogue. What area or niche are you looking to fill? What abilities are you looking for?
The primary one I was thinking of is a spontaneous divine caster. Essentially built on the Sorcerer class but with divine abilies and spells. The spells are based upon Charisma, so I figured a good name would be Evangelist. It would add some pseudo bardic abilities for influencing mobs. There would be very few offensive spells, with most being designed to buff and heal- yes even more so than the Cleric. Instead of turning, I would add something similar to the bloodline for the Sorcerer, but make them dependent upon the domains chosen- with lots of area affect abilities.
To me, the rogue has skill monkey wrapped up. Just change the mix of skills as you like it and you have anything you want. The change would need to be its abilities. Not all Skill monkeys need Sneak Attack.
So if you are looking for a martial skill monkey, what abilities are you looking for?
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Yeah something like a warlord would be cool. But only if he is also a decent warrior. Because i like the idea of a warlord/general/whatever beeing a combat monster like in many fantasy books or wuxia movies. On the other side this could be achieved through multiclassing so...
I also like the noble class idea. Many of my players wanted to play nobles but the npc aristocrat class just isn`t it.
What i would like to see is something like a general adventurer class. At the moment if you want to play "a normal guy" who is seeking adventures you can take the fighter (who is very fighting oriented) or the thief (who is very sneakattack oriented). It would be nice if there was a skill monkey class which could be used to play valuable (in comparison to the other classes) merchants,weaponsmiths,adveturers etc.
In Unearthed Arcana there are three generic adventuring class which I have considered making mandatory for starting players. They are Expert, Spellcaster, and Warrior. I figure these would make great entry level characters, then at level 3 players can enter core classes then at level 10 chracters could enter prestige classes. I know it sounds like 4E but I had the idea long before 4E.
Any way the Expert class makes a great template to build upon. I have used it to make a really good artificer using the rules from Unearthed Arcana for making magic items on the fly. It would be a great platform for building a Warlord from as well.
Well a fighter with the right feats would indeed make a good noble. The only problem is that the only proper feat i know is leadership. We would need feats which give you more money, perhaps a manor, more followers, a better social standing and so one.
But i`ll definitely check out the burning wheel noble.
And well for the adventurer. The expert class is nice but it is basically a stripped down rogue with even less combat capability.
When i think of an adventurer i think about someone who can fight almost as good as a fighter but has much more skills.
Something like: good BAB, d8 or d10 HD, 6-8 skillpoínts per level, many classskills, and many talents but with restrictions like the rogue has. They shouldn't be used solely on combat feats. Oh and i think trapfinding would be also nice. I know this sounds much like the rogue but the sneak attack is really bothering me. Its just not right for the adventurer i have in mind. If there was of course an option which would allow to trade the sneak attack for something else then i would have my adventurer :)
edit: oh i forgot the niche. Well in combat the niche would be somewhat of a little weaker fighter and outside combat he would be the skillmonkey. The guy who repairs the stuff of the group, who does all the diplomaty, who disables traps, who knows that this monster is best encountered with fire and so on, depending on what skills the player takes.
Personally i'd like to see a "Pathfinder-ized" Marshal. Too bad it's not OGL...
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To me, the rogue has skill monkey wrapped up. Just change the mix of skills as you like it and you have anything you want. The change would need to be its abilities. Not all Skill monkeys need Sneak Attack.
Yeah, not all people with Trapfinding/Open Lock/Disable Device need to be Rogues, as per the SRD.
If you've ever locked yourself out of your house or car, just remember that the guy who rolls up to let you in, the 30-stone guy who looks like Pete Griffin from Family Guy, is actually a Dex 25 acrobat, who can flip cartwheels out of his van, Tumble through your legs and disembowel you with a blunt screwdriver at +5d6 Sneak Attack.
So you'd better not haggle over the bill.
On a serious note, could Sneak Attack simply be made into one of a list of Talents, so if you don't see the need or justification, you can swap it for something else, like Skill Focus or the like?
Pathfinder class? Count me in :)
@snorter: lol
But i think that skill focus would be not enough. After all sneak attack is a really powerfull ability. Combined with improved feint it is a real damage booster. So i would rather give someone an extra feat all 2 or 3 Levels in exchange for it.
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Personally, my first choice of a new class would be a Noble: A mix of riches, political and financial influence, leadership abilites, and a rake's fighting style (think something like swashbuckler, marshal, aristocrat, mixed with the Leadership feat and something else)
I have played a 'Noble' as a Bard, substituting the music-oriented Perform for inspiring oratory and shouted combat tactics (thanks to his classical education), keeping the armor, weapons, saves, hit points and skills (not really a warrior, but a lot better at fighting than the average aristocrat, thanks to those fencing lessons!) and swapping out the spontaneous spellcasting for prepared spellcasting (of course he had lessons on matters arcane! The tutors cost a lot, and he'll never be a true wizard, but still, in a world shaped by powerful magic, you'd better believe the Dukes' son is gonna know a few spells).
The only real mechanical change was to the spell list (to remove the various sound-affecting spells and swap a few around) and the number of spells / day (since, as a prepared caster, he'd get less castings per day, but potentially be able to scribe all of the spells on his small list) and dropping some of the 'bardic music' features that didn't fit with the aristocratic command style (countersong, frex).
I think a noble is a really cool idea. The problem with the existing classes is that you have to shove the other classes into the noble, when a noble wouldn't necessarily be a fighter or a bard.
Also, a pathfinder would be great....
I am curious how one would design a social/skill monkey other than a rogue. What area or niche are you looking to fill? What abilities are you looking for?
The primary one I was thinking of is a spontaneous divine caster. Essentially built on the Sorcerer class but with divine abilies and spells. The spells are based upon Charisma, so I figured a good name would be Evangelist. It would add some pseudo bardic abilities for influencing mobs. There would be very few offensive spells, with most being designed to buff and heal- yes even more so than the Cleric. Instead of turning, I would add something similar to the bloodline for the Sorcerer, but make them dependent upon the domains chosen- with lots of area affect abilities.
To me, the rogue has skill monkey wrapped up. Just change the mix of skills as you like it and you have anything you want. The change would need to be its abilities. Not all Skill monkeys need Sneak Attack.
So if you are looking for a martial skill monkey, what abilities are you looking for?
You do and don't have to look far. The Dragonlance RPG has a Mystic whic is in effect a Divine spontaneous caster. Getting your hands on it might be hard. On the other hand if you go to the Dragonlance nexus sight you'll find a really really good Pathfinder update to the mystic.
I'd love to see Pathfinder Updates to a set of classes from all over 3rd editon times. My alternative class list would be.
Archer (3Arrows for the King)
Knight (R&R Excalibur)
Mystic (Ragonlance
Tinker (WOW RPG this is balanced for Pathfinder IMO)
Elmentalist (actually never did find good version of this, might make my own)
Pirate (Conan with a few add ons from Swashbuckling Adv., also all none spellcasting classes in Conan seem to fit well with Pathfinder powercreep wise)
Noble (GR versions with a few add on's from other sorces)
Wicth (GR version)
Cavaler (think Mounted Warrior not simply Kinght GR version)
Weapons Master (From the Black Company RPG)
Boarder/Ranger (without spell casting although I do like the Black Companies version of the spellless Ranger the main problem in this case is that Pathfinder effectivly took all these ideas and added it to the standard Ranger. As a side note I have players who want the opposite Rangers who get spells a lot fasterI put that alternative class in Elven land only. In any case Pathfinder being backwards compatable must also be foward combatable, and if no one will publish updates to these classes in might fall to fan sights).
For the record none of the above with the exception of the Mystic were ever from Wizards books so they were all balanced for 3.5 core. I'd begun work updating them all to Pathfinder standards, taking good ideas form 3pp core and prestige classes that fit the class concept.
TTFN Dre
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Personally, my first choice of a new class would be a Noble...
My problem with Noble as a class is the same as my problem with Commoner as a class... it just isn't a profession someone chooses. It's a class, as in social class. If folks wanted to add social class to their characters, I'd see it as an additional layer - a commoner dwarf fighter vs. a noble dwarf fighter. "Noble" might include +1 to Con for better nutrition and health care growing plus a feat like Educated, while "Commoner" might grant +1 to Wis (common sense) and some other feat. Just a thought, but I don't see either of these as really being deserving of a "class." Just my opinion though.
Spontaneous divine caster is certainly a missing niche. I'd also enjoy a tinker of some sort.
Personally, my first choice of a new class would be a Noble...My problem with Noble as a class is the same as my problem with Commoner as a class... it just isn't a profession someone chooses. It's a class, as in social class. If folks wanted to add social class to their characters, I'd see it as an additional layer - a commoner dwarf fighter vs. a noble dwarf fighter. "Noble" might include +1 to Con for better nutrition and health care growing plus a feat like Educated, while "Commoner" might grant +1 to Wis (common sense) and some other feat. Just a thought, but I don't see either of these as really being deserving of a "class." Just my opinion though.
Spontaneous divine caster is certainly a missing niche. I'd also enjoy a tinker of some sort.
With respect I see room for both concept (ie pure role playing apect of being titled, and a actual class). As I said GR did a great job with this, though I doubt if the big 3pp will do much to support Pathfinder, it would be a great if Piazo would update some of these open cocepts.
As I side all but the Mystic is open, and that can be done with a little work.
My problem with Noble as a class is the same as my problem with Commoner as a class... it just isn't a profession someone chooses.
Same goes for Sorcerers (you can multiclass into a magical heritage) and Barbarians (you can multiclass into a culture).
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My problem with Noble as a class is the same as my problem with Commoner as a class... it just isn't a profession someone chooses.
Same goes for Sorcerers (you can multiclass into a magical heritage) and Barbarians (you can multiclass into a culture).
Hey, whaddayaknow?
Turns out Granmaw done f!%@ed a dragon!Sucks to be you, "Granpaw". Get out of our house! We need your room for Grandad Pyromancicallus!
She fired a dragon? What did it do? Steal charcoal during lunch break? It was hungry! If you provide free coffee and sandwiches to your human employees, by all means supply charcoal, blood of innocents and fresh virgins to draconic ones!
A few I've done over the years:
Reiki Adept:
My idea for this class was to have a healer type character that didn't rely on divine spells or magic spells at all. When thinking on how to build the class I realised all I wanted was a class the could heal the different maladies of D&D, and still be useful at other tasks. I didn't want a 'doctor' class however which would literally reduce the class to a healer only place in the game. I started thinking about other cultures various views on healers and 'alternate' healing techniques and came up with this. The ideas behind the powers in this class are a combo of the monk and yin/yang healing/killing several key features of the monk are missing, no flury of blows, slow fall, or speed increase, however this class gains several immunities and almost paladin like healing powers.
Rieki Adept
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HD: d8
BAB: average
Fort: Good
Will: Good
Ref: Good
Skills: Concentration, Climb, Jump, Tumble, Heal, Knowledge(arcana, religion, history), Sense motive, Listen, Spot, Search, Swim, Craft, Diplomacy, Profession, Survival
Skill Points: 4 + Int Mod (x4 at first level)
Weapon Proficiency: Staff, Club, Sling
Armor Proficiency: None
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Level --- Ability
1 --- Unarmed Strike, Stunning Blow, Healing Touch, AC Bonus
2 --- Divine Grace
3 --- Divine health
4 --- Improve Ally
5 --- Ki Strike (Magic)
6 --- Remove Affliction
7 --- Reduce Opponent
8 --- Restore Body
9 --- Masterful healing
10 --- Bestow Affliction
11 --- Diamond Body
12 --- Death Ward, Fortifying Touch
13 --- Diamond Soul
14 --- Envigorating Touch
15 --- Quivering Palm
16 --- Enervation Strike
17 --- Timeless body
18 --- Restore to Life
19 ---
20 --- Perfect Self
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Unarmed Strike --- The Rieki Adept gains this feature with the damage increases the same as a monk. The Rieki Adept does not gain the Flury of blows ability.
Stunning Blow --- The Rieki Adept gains this feature in the same manner as the monk. In addition everytime the Rieki Adept gains one of the following abilities he gains another use of his stunning blow ability: Healing Touch, Improve Ally, Remove Affliction, Reduce Opponent, Restore Body, Bestow Affliction, Fortifying Touch, Envigorating Touch, Enervation Strike, and Restore to Life. Activiating any of those abilities expends a use of the Rieki Adept's Stunning Blow ability (i.e. A first level rieki adept with a wisdom of 10 has 3 uses of stunning blow per day, he uses his healing touch ability which counts against 1 of those uses so now he has 2 left for that day.)
Healing Touch --- The Rieki Adept as a standard action may spend 1 stunning blow attempt to touch himself or an ally and restore HP equal to an unarmed strike damage roll, he does not add his strength to this roll instead modifying it with his charisma (i.e. a first level Rieki adept would restore d6 + CHA mod HP).
AC Bonus --- Same as the monk ability.
Divine Grace --- Same as the paladin ability.
Divine health --- Same as the paladin ability.
Improve Ally --- As a standard action a Rieki Adept may use a stunning blow attempt to touch himself or an ally and boost either STR, CON, or DEX by half of his unarmed strike dice size for a number of rounds equal to his Rieki Adept level (i.e. at level 4 a Rieki adept has a d8 unarmed strike dice so he would boost an himself or an ally by 4 points for 4 rounds).
Remove Affliciton -- As a standard action a Rieki Adept may use a stunning blow attempt to heal himself or an ally of 1 of the following conditions per stunning fist attempt spent (only 1 attempt per round means multiple afflicitions take multiple rounds). Blindness, Deafness, Disease, Poison, Paralysis, or Fear.
Reduce Opponent -- As a standard action a Rieki Adept may use a stunning blow attempt to deal ability damage to a STR, CON, or DEX by equal to half of his normal damage roll without any other modifiers with a melee touch attack (i.e. A level 7 Rieki Adept makes a melee touch attack rolls his d8 gets a 6 and does 3 points of ability damage to either his opponent's STR, CON, or DEX).
Restore Body --- As a standard action a Rieki Adept may spend 1 stunning blow attempt to touch himself or an ally and restore Ability Damage for one stat equal to an half of an unarmed strike damage roll, he does not modify this roll in anyway (i.e. an 8 level Rieki adept would restore 1/2d10 Abiltiy Damage for one stat).
Masterful Healing --- A Rieki Adept with this ability doubles his dice roll for using healing touch to see how much damage is healed.
Bestow Affliction --- Instead of stunning a foe with his stunning fist a Rieki Adept may instead bestow blindness, deafness, a Disease from the contiagion list paralysis or fear status. A Will save DC 10 + 1/2 Rieki Adept Class level + CHA mod, negates this effect. Paralysis blindness, deafness, or fear last a number of rounds equal to the Rieki Adept's Class level.
Diamond Body --- As the monk ability
Fortifying Touch --- The Rieki Adept as a standard action may spend 1 stunning blow attempt to touch himself or an ally and bestow damage reduction equal to 1/4 his Rieki Adept level rounded down / - (i.e. a 12 level Rieki Adept would bestow damage reduction 3/- A 16 level Rieki Adept would bestow 4/-).
Diamond Soul --- As the monk ability.
Envigorating Touch --- The Rieki Adept as a standard action may spend 1 stunning blow attempt to touch himself or an ally and restore 1 negative level per stunning Fist Attempt used.
Quivering Palm --- as the monk ability.
Enervation Strike --- As a standard action a Rieki Adept may use a stunning blow attempt to deal negative levels to an opponent equal to half of his normal damage roll without any other modifiers with a melee touch attack. A Will save DC 10 + 1/2 Rieki Adept Class level + CHA mod, negates this effect (i.e. A level 16 Rieki Adept makes a melee touch attack rolls his 2d8 gets a 6 total and does 3 negative levels to his opponent if they don't save).
Timeless Body --- as the monk ability.
Restore to Life --- A Rieki adept may spend 2 stunning blow attempts to raise someone from the dead as if using a resurrection spell this takes ten minutes and total concentration during this time. If attacked while attempting this action the Rieki Adept must make a concentration check DC 17 + damage taken or lose the stunning blow attempts and fail in the resurrection. This ability must be started within 1 min of the death of the creature.
Perfect Self --- as the monk ability.
Flux Mage:
The flux mage was created when I had the had that person that "wants to play a mage that can use any kind of magic but does so wildy and without true control". I gave him bad hit dice, BAB, and really cut in on his magic ability hoping to shake him fast, but he liked it and did rather well actually role-playing it instead of getting upset that he couldn't cast true ressurection and implosion. Anyways some tweaks later and this is what I have right now. One thing of note about this class is it is an 'unlimited' caster, it can cast almost any spell almost an infinite number of times per day. However each spell cast makes the next one harder until spells start screwing up which can actually kill the caster. In any given encounter we found this class got off about as many spells as any other caster of the same level, but the Flux Mages spells tended to be lower spell level, and sometimes didn't even work. Spell level progression is slow (like, the bard casts higher level spells at lower class level slow) but the desperate(or stupid) do have a means of making this up with overcasting. Anyways read up and give it some thought. I realise that a class with an seemingly open spell list and lack of spells per day limits should start at broke and die from there but this may change some minds. Last note this class does have it's own amount of book keeping to do so it's not completely accounting free.
Flux Mage
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HD: d4
BAB: Poor
Fort: Poor
Ref: Poor
Will: Good
Skill Points: 2 + INT Mod (x4 at first level)
Skills: Concentration, Craft, Knowledge(arcana), Profession, Spellcraft
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Level --- Ability
1 --- Flux Cast (0th level), Overcasting, Known Spells, Flux Counter
2 --- Magic Sense
3 --- Flux Cast (1st level)
4 ---
5 ---
6 --- Flux Cast (2nd level)
7
8
9 --- Flux Cast (3rd Level)
10
11
12 --- Flux Cast (4th level)
13 ---
14 ---
15 --- Flux Cast (5th level)
16 ---
17 ---
18 --- Flux Cast (6th level)
19 ---
20 ---
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Flux Casting --- Where most mages use spells with formulae to keep them safe from the risks of using magic a flux mage casts spells by pulling raw magical energy together and trying to shape it into the desired effect as he needs it. This method allows unparallel versatility, at the cost of spells sometimes not working or even backfiring. A flux mage may try to cast any spell that is of a spell level he can flux cast at. In order to do so the flux mage spends a full round action makes a caster level check modified as discribed below. If the flux mage succeeds then he casts the spell, if he fails the spell doesn't work. However if the flux mage fails by 5 points or more the spell backfires dealing d4 damage to the mage for each spell level of the attempted spell. In order to cast a spell a flux mage must have a wisdom score of 10 + the spell level or higher. The DC for any save throw from a spell cast by a flux mage is set by the flux mage's CHA mod. Each spell that a flux mage casts leaves a little residue. This residue makes futher spell casting for the flux mage more and more difficult unless the flux mage give the residue (called 'flux') time to disapate. A spell leaves flux equal to its spell level for a number of rounds equal to its spell level with a minium of 1 point flux for 1 round. Flux acclumilates in a special way, only the highest flux modifier is added to the DC of the flux mage's caster level check but each time another spell is cast before the flux dissapates the flux lasts another round. Flux builds even if a spell attempt is unsuccessful.
Overcasting --- A flux mage may try to cast spells beyond his ability to do so but this is always dangerous and painful. A flux mage may attempt to overcast a spell that has a spell level no higher than 3 levels higher than his maximum spell level (i.e. a first level flux mage may try a 3rd level spell). however the attempt itself does a point of damage per spell level of the spell in addition to the risks of damage from spell failure (i.e. the above flux mage automaticly takes 3 points of damage for trying to cast that 3rd level spell). In addition the spell is more difficult to cast and has a higher starting DC for the flux mage's caster level check.
Known Spells --- Over his career a flux mage tends to learn to do a few spell patterns better than others, these are his spells known. At level 1 a flux mage knows 1 0th level spell from any spell list plus 1 0th level spell for each point of Int Mod the flux mage has (i.e. a flux mage with Int 14 would know 3 0th level spell). These spells are easier to cast and have a lower starting DC than normal for the flux mage. Every level the flux mage may add 1 spell of any spell level he can cast up to his maximum level not including levels he can overcast (i.e. a 3nd level flux mage can't learn a 2nd level spell but could learn a 1st level or 0th level spell). Also a flux mage's spells known are the only spells on his spell list for the purposes of item creation or scroll usage.
Flux Counter --- A flux mage with a readied action can counter a spell even if he can't identify it. This is because flux mages are more adept at simply pulling the energy out of a spell and picking it apart mystically than other casters. The flux mage simply uses a standard action makes the caster level check as if casting a spell of the same level as the one to be countered and deteremines success from that caster level check. However if he fails this check by 5 or more (even if he 'succeeds' in overcoming his own DC for casting a spell of that level) he still takes backfire damage. Built up flux does not affect this ability becuase all that extra mess can actually help pull apart the other caster's spell.
The following is a chart for flux casting DC's.
Known Spell Base DC --- 10 + spell level
Unknown Spell Base DC --- 15 + spell level
Overcasting Spell Base DC --- 15 + (2 x spell level)
+ 1 DC for each spell level of perviously cast spells for a number of rounds equal to that spell's level.
Magic Sense --- Spell-like ability of detect magic at will with concentration as per the paladin's detect evil ability.
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EXAMPLE:
Mark, 6th level flux mage
Round 1
Mark attempts to cast Mage Armor which is one of his spells known (DC = 10 + 1 = 11) Flux = 1 for 1 round
Round 2
Mark attempts to overcasts stoneskin and takes 5 points of damage (DC = 15 + 8 + 1 = 24) Flux = 4 for 4 rounds
Round 3
Mark attempts to cast Cure Light wounds which is one of his spells known (DC = 10 + 1 + 4 = 15) Flux = 4 for 4 rounds
Round 4
Mark attempts to cast Magic Missile an unknown spell within his range (DC = 15 + 1 + 4 = 20) Flux = 4 for 4 rounds
Round 5
Mark withdraws from being in melee combat (someone had charged him) Flux = 4 for 3 rounds
Round 6
Mark attempts to cast Spiritual Hammer (DC = 15 + 2 + 4 = 21) fails with a roll of 14 total and takes 2d4 damage from backfire. Flux = 4 for 3 rounds
Rounds 7, 8, 9
Mark decides that hurt and waits for his flux to drop thus annoying the fighter who was fending off the trolls waiting for Mark to cast fireball.
Round 10
Fighter runs away and Mark decides to feed the trolls.
Use them if you like them, leave comments if you don't.
Krome wrote:
…so I figured a good name would be Evangelist.
As it so happens, I looked in the Green Ronin Advanced Player’s Manual and there is a Divine caster based on the Sorcerer and it is called the Evangelist.
Basically she casts based on her wisdom and prepares as a Cleric, but her list stops at 6th level. She can spontaneously cast Summon spells by sacrificing a prepared spell. Her hp are based on d6, skill points are 6+Int. Weapons and armor are all Simple weapons and all armor except Tower Shields.
I haven’t looked into the class that much but your mention of it made me want to let you know there is a class similar to what you said.
Just my 2 cp.
haven't they said there will be a Blackguard and Ninja class
I would like to see a shaman and scout classes. I would like a favored soul type as well as a gish class. Finally, I would like a no-alignment restriction holy warrior- the Templar
Reiki Adept:I think I love this class. A non-divine healer/monk hybrid. That's just all different kinds of awesome!
Thank you.
I'll disagree with that statement. Not that the current ones couldn't be modified to represent new ideas for characters, but even then they are not the "base core" and therefore are a step towards new classes. New base classes aren't needed for core in my opinion, but new options for full 20 level classes aren't bad at all. The options provided through expanded psionics, the archivist in heroes of horror, the warlord from heroes of battle are all unique and interesting ways to play different characters that are not possible through core alone.
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I think that some sort of nonmagical/pseudomagical gadgeteer would be keen. Not exactly like the artificer, since they use magic of a sort, but along the same lines. Trapfinding, mechanical aptitude to create wondrous items, weapons, and whatnot (constructs especially). Basically a technical-based skill monkey without the sneaky elements.
Xuttah, you just gave me the notion to go build a rogue with the Master craftsman feat to make magic constructs.
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I'll disagree with that statement. Not that the current ones couldn't be modified to represent new ideas for characters, but even then they are not the "base core" and therefore are a step towards new classes. New base classes aren't needed for core in my opinion, but new options for full 20 level classes aren't bad at all. The options provided through expanded psionics, the archivist in heroes of horror, the warlord from heroes of battle are all unique and interesting ways to play different characters that are not possible through core alone.
I suppose I should have said core as opposed to base. I'm still not sold on about 3 out of every 4 of all the alternate 20-level classes I've seen. I also feel like the core classes fill just about every niche with proper choices, except for the gish choice. Everything else kind of becomes a specialized version of a current core class to me.
Same goes for Sorcerers (you can multiclass into a magical heritage) and Barbarians (you can multiclass into a culture).
My problem with Noble as a class is the same as my problem with Commoner as a class... it just isn't a profession someone chooses.
I actually prohibit multiclassing to Sorceror, and Barbarian. "Hey suddenly I get really angry and can't read anymore."
Other classes require at least exposure to that classs prior to taking it, no bookworm one day waking up knowing how to use every weapon imaginable. Now if the Wizard has fighter buddies it's not too much of a stretch to imagine him training and picking things up over time culminating in Fighter level 1
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You don't loose literacy by MCing to barbarian any more than you loose martial proficiency by MCing into sorcerer.
As for NPC classes, that's what they're designed for -NPC's. You don't choose a class IRL and these folks represent normal, non-heroic people who go to work, pay taxes and don't think it's cool and fun to fight dragons. :) It's a rare campaign where an NPC class can keep up as a PC.
The only other class I'd consider would be a Bounty Hunter. Ranger without spells, substitute thiefy stuff and reduced backstab.
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Barbarian should actually be named Berserker, barbaric cultures would typically have this more often, but so would a drunken barroom brawler. Thus you shouldn't limit multi-classing into it.
Sorcerers multiclass by having their previously hidden powers come to the surface, similar to what happened before they became 1st level. Thus you shouldn't limit multi-classing into it.
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In (the d20 version) of the Rokugan campaign setting for Legend of the Five Rings, those samurai who take the Barbarian class are known as bersekers; it is certainly not polite to call them barbarians. Whilst many samurai take the Samurai class, there is nothing stopping them taking levels in Ranger, Fighter or whatever.
In Star Wars, starship captains, merchants and anyone else who needs interpersonal skills often take a few levels in Noble.
They are just (character) class names.
Taking the Barbarian class doesn't make you a barbarian, taking the Noble class doesn't make you a noble.
Obviously, in your own games you are free to rule that only characters with noble blood can take the Noble class, or all elves are left handed, or whatever else you think makes for a more interesting game. (Personally, I only allow rock gnomes and grey elves to become Mystic Theurges.)
I think it would be great if Pathfinder could manage to find a way of separating fluff and crunch for character classes. Something along the lines of :-
"A warrior who emphasises training, dedication and practice as the path to success is likely to take the Fighter class, regardless of whether he comes from a proud line of artistocratic generals or a tribe of savages."
"A warrior who prefers to rely on instinct, a nose for trouble and unfettered might is likely to take the Barbarian class, regardless of whether he hails from the northern wastes or the heart of civilisation."
it actually makes more sense for a sorcerer to multi-class then other classes since his powers come "naturally"
I would love to see some new classes that are unique new creations for the pathfinder game.
I don't mean this in offense to anyone here but most of the replies here seem to be about new pathfinder revisions of old material that 1 can not be done because it is not OGL and 2 do not need updates. Things like the favored soul are already on par with what the pathfinder classes are getting.
As far as new classes we will not have the chance at any of them until after the base pathfinder book is completed and on the shelves. So until then it is really just a point of conjecture but i would like to see them do their own version of a spontaneous divine caster, psychics (since im not sure if they are OGL) and an skill based character similar to a rouge that is not a rouge if you know what i mean.
There is a separate issue that was brought up in this thread though that i can wholeheartedly get behind. There should be a class for a Noble.
In general i would like there to be some major revisions to the NPC classes. I dont want them to be made into player classes mind you but they should have some unique abilities and some feats. In context to a campaign world look at it this way why would a world with adventurers that have class levels placate to a aristocrat he has nothing backing him up. Yes they may have some warriors but they suck compared to a fighter since they have no feats they would fall fairly quickly. Experts are supposed to be the random thieves, craftsmen, entertainers and people of skill but again no class abilities just a skill set and a lame att bonus so why would a party need them the thief is completely overshadowed by a rouge so they make nice filler for a thieves guild but not a very scary one. A craftsman would be outshined by any crafting wizard or weapon making fighter. Lastly entertainers well between bards and the ever amusing bumbling heroes on the wrong track well most entertainment is provided.
I could go on with this but i would rather not. All im really saying is that there should be some better classes for these people as the GM may want to design exceptional examples of the people that make up the kingdom and not every bartender or nobleman should have to be a 2 to 5th level base class to be noticed.
I think im going to see if i can work out some options for this concept and see what happens then open a different thread for them.
I would love to see some new classes that are unique new creations for the pathfinder game.
as would I but I would like to see some of the other ideas like a spontaneous divine caster, like a gish, like a rogue/ranger combo paizo-fied
Well the current sugggestion for converting is to leave them alone. The "Core Base" was upped in part to keep up with the later (and many times better) base classes that where published in splatbooks.
MerrikCale,
<quote>as would I but I would like to see some of the other ideas like a spontaneous divine caster, like a gish, like a rogue/ranger combo paizo-fied<Quote>
I agree i would like to see these things but not rehashes of old ones i want to see their own take on it.
Elijah Snow
<quote>I understand Pathfinder has to start by getting the base classes right, but as soon as possible I would love to see both new classes and, more importantly, a "suggested" 3.5 class conversion guide.<quote>
Most of the 3.5 classes only need to have the HP and BAB updated otherwise most of them do not need any updating or revisioning as the Pathfinder classes were upped in power to match up with the likes of the non core classes.
I would agree with Abraham spalding and Xaaon of Xen'Drik here and say that there is no need of an update to them secondly they can not be updated by Paizo as they are not OGL so it would cause all kinds of problems. I would however like to see them make an artificer class that is not designed to be used exclusively for Eberron.
Yeah something like a warlord would be cool. But only if he is also a decent warrior. Because i like the idea of a warlord/general/whatever beeing a combat monster like in many fantasy books or wuxia movies. On the other side this could be achieved through multiclassing so...
I also like the noble class idea. Many of my players wanted to play nobles but the npc aristocrat class just isn`t it.
What i would like to see is something like a general adventurer class. At the moment if you want to play "a normal guy" who is seeking adventures you can take the fighter (who is very fighting oriented) or the thief (who is very sneakattack oriented). It would be nice if there was a skill monkey class which could be used to play valuable (in comparison to the other classes) merchants,weaponsmiths,adveturers etc.
In Unearthed Arcana there are three generic adventuring class which I have considered making mandatory for starting players. They are Expert, Spellcaster, and Warrior. I figure these would make great entry level characters, then at level 3 players can enter core classes then at level 10 chracters could enter prestige classes. I know it sounds like 4E but I had the idea long before 4E.
Any way the Expert class makes a great template to build upon. I have used it to make a really good artificer using the rules from Unearthed Arcana for making magic items on the fly. It would be a great platform for building a Warlord from as well.
I played in a campaign that required 2 levels of npc class (warrior, expert, artistocrat, commoner) before taking levels in any other class. The level didn't count for multiclassing purposes.
It went ok until about level 7, when the players fell dramatically behind the power curve. If you do this, you probably need to rebalance CRs, or not figure the npc classes into party EL calculations.
a new artificer would be interesting since it is so different from the other classes
I had a player in my game (who hadn't really played before) who requested that he play a non-magical support character other than a rogue, and I got to thinking, the PRPG currently doesn't have an option for this (The marshal class from 3.5 wasn't very good, and I'm trying to run a PRPG playtest). As much as I hate 4e, this player probably would have liked the warlord character, or something similar to it, so I'm wondering if Paizo has any plans to add any new classes, such as this?
What do you think? what classes would you like to see?
I would like to see some sort of lightly armored swashbuckling type of core class that is not a rogue, I would also lie a warlord type of core class, a more martially bent bard that don't use magic, but has various commanding abilities to aid the party.
It would be nice to get an update on the oriental and psionic classes, and a core "Gish" type of class would be nice.