Director of Games
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Welcome to the Errata and Typos thread for the Barbarian, Fighter, and Ranger portions of the classes chaper. If you spot any typos or rules that need errata in this section, please post them to this thread. Note that this is not a thread for discussing rules changes, only obvious mistakes or unclear rules. We have done our best to make these chapters as clean as possible, but 10,000 eyes are better than 12. Thanks for your help.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
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* the fighter's weapon training lists weapon groups of weapons, but fails to mention the new weapons added in Pathfinder, specifically the elven curve blade and the starknife.
* the ranger's combat style entry lists feats removed from the Beta, specficially Careful Targeting, Pinpoint Targeting, and Deft Shield
Barbarian Rage Powers and swift actions
"Unless otherwise noted, these abilities are swift actions that must be performed on the barbarian’s turn."
For most rage powers this is not a problem, the swift action is conditional (on a hit) or designed to be used in conjunction with an attack. The Animal Fury Rage Power presents a problem though:
The barbarian may make a bite attack using her full base attack bonus plus her Strength modifier. If the bite hits, it deals 1d6 points of damage (assuming the barbarian is Medium; 1d4 points of damage if Small) plus the barbarian’s Strength modifier. A barbarian can use this power while grappled. If the bite attack hits, any grapple checks made against the target this round are at a +2 bonus. (2 rage points)
As written this appears to give the barbarian an additional attack as a swift action, giving low level barbarians 2 attacks per round at full BAB plus full strength bonus. This rage power needs to be clarified. Perhaps just add the words "as a standard action" or "in addition to the barbarians normal attack" at a strategic place.
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Fighter - Weapon Training groups: Assuming the design philosophy is to include every weapon in the Equipment list in some group, the following changes should probably be made.
Blades, Heavy: add elven curve blade
Blades, Light: add starknife
Double: add quarterstaff; dwarven urgosh should be dwarven urgrosh
Flails: move morningstar to Hammers group
Hammers: move morningstar from Flails group; possibly add quarterstaff
Monk: add quarterstaff (it’s a special monk weapon too)
Polearms: remove quarterstaff (neither a polearm nor a reach weapon), add lance, add longspear (both reach weapons)
Thrown: remove handaxe; add sai, add starknife, add throwing axe
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Ranger Combat Style Feats
There are some problems with the Ranger’s combat style feats.
First, Table 4-10 lists a combat style feat at 10th level, but in the Combat Style Feat entry itself, new feats are added to the list at 11th level. Should this availability be changed to 10th level to match when the ranger actually gains a new feat?
Archery: Careful Targeting is no longer a feat. Perhaps it should be replaced with Deadly Aim?
At 6th level, Exact Targeting is no longer a feat. Also, Many Shot should be Manyshot.
Improved Precise Shot should be added to the 11th level list, to stay backwards compatible with 3.5 Combat Style Mastery.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Ranger Combat Style Feats
There are some problems with the Ranger’s combat style feats.First, Table 4-10 lists a combat style feat at 10th level, but in the Combat Style Feat entry itself, new feats are added to the list at 11th level. Should this availability be changed to 10th level to match when the ranger actually gains a new feat?
Y'know, I thought this was weird at first too, but on rethinking it, it basically means that you have (list A) from which you can choose with the CS feats you get up to 10th level, and then (list B) from which you can choose afterwards. It basically prevents taking a (list B) feat with your 10th level bonus feat.
Perhaps there's a better way to phrase it so it doesn't read strangely.
Not so much an errata but a bit of clarification.
The ranger's 'archery' combat style is no longer specific to bows (which is nice) is it possible to change the name of the style to reflect it's more flexible nature? Ranged Combat Style might work.
The barbarian may make a bite attack using her full base attack bonus plus her Strength modifier. If the bite hits, it deals 1d6 points of damage (assuming the barbarian is Medium; 1d4 points of damage if Small) plus the barbarian’s Strength modifier. A barbarian can use this power while grappled. If the bite attack hits, any grapple checks made against the target this round are at a +2 bonus. (2 rage points)As written this appears to give the barbarian an additional attack as a swift action, giving low level barbarians 2 attacks per round at full BAB plus full strength bonus. This rage power needs to be clarified. Perhaps just add the words "as a standard action" or "in addition to the barbarians normal attack" at a strategic place.
I think the power merely gives the Barbarian the opportunity to make a natural bite attack that previously he cannot make (being human or something like that). Although it is not clearly stated, I suggest to make the bite attack either:
1) a single melee attack, with full BaB and full Strength bonus (as written above); or2) during a full-round attack, an extra attack at -5 BaB with only half Strength bonus and no penalty to the weapon attack(s).
That is, as a Lizardfolk character with a weapon (who can also make a Bite attack with a -5 to hit, half Strength bonus since it's a secondary attack, and no penalty to the weapon attacks since it's a natural weapon).
My 2 cents...
Fighter - Weapon Training groups:
Polearms: remove quarterstaff (neither a polearm nor a reach weapon), add lance, add longspear (both reach weapons)
I agree with the rest of your comments, but I question this. If the purpose of this groups is (non-whip) reach weapons, then halberd doesn't fit. If the purpose is pole weapons, then quarterstaff certainly does: all other pole weapons build on the quarterstaff, both materially and in technique.
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I think the power merely gives the Barbarian the opportunity to make a natural bite attack that previously he cannot make (being human or something like that).
This is how I feel as well. The barbarian can spend the rage ability to give a bite attack instead of his normal attack. I really don't want to debate the issue though, since this is the errata thread, I just wanted to bring the confusion about this to Jason's attention.
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I agree with the rest of your comments, but I question this. If the purpose of this groups is (non-whip) reach weapons, then halberd doesn't fit. If the purpose is pole weapons, then quarterstaff certainly does: all other pole weapons build on the quarterstaff, both materially and in technique.Fighter - Weapon Training groups:
Polearms: remove quarterstaff (neither a polearm nor a reach weapon), add lance, add longspear (both reach weapons)
Obviously, not every polearm is a reach weapon in 3.x/PF, but a halberd is certainly a polearm, as is a pike (aka longspear). I suggested removing quarterstaff because I've never seen quarterstaff lumped in with polearms, in older editions and Dragon articles. And it is a double weapon, making it fit better there, IMO.
However, I have no real knowledge of quarterstaff technique (other than Robin Hood movies) or polearm technique, and the material argument certainly make sense, so if fighting techniques are indeed similar, why not? It just seemed strange to me as a polarm.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I realize this is a corner case between "ranger" errata and "spell" errata, but:
In the spells section, command plants is listed as a 3rd level ranger spell in the lists, but its description is missing (spell descriptions go from command, greater to command undead on p. 210).
Relatedly, control plants (Drd8) is also missing its description on p. 212.
Roused Anger:
When using this ability, would the Barbarian be considered Fatigued WHILE Raging,
i.e. suffer it's penalties on top of the normal Rage bonuses?(making it a weaker Rage than normal)
When the 2nd Rage is dropped, if the 1st Rage's Fatigue is still in effect, would you now become "Exhausted", since you might be suffering two Fatigue effects? If now "Exhausted", would you not be able to use Roused Anger to enter Rage again, at least until you're just Fatigued and no longer Exhausted (when the first Fatigue wears out), or should Roused Anger also apply to Exhaustion?
OR does the combination of both Fatigues (from the 1st Rage and from the Roused Anger Rage)
not combine into Exhaustion, but "add up" to a longer Fatigue effect?
Point cost of Rage itself:
This wording is very confusing for me.
Is it just saying that you spend one Rage Point per round? Or is it saying that your first round of Rage costs TWO Rage Points?
Or is it attempting to cover situation where you enter Rage outside of your own turn, i.e. before your initiative count, and is saying in those instances you also pay one point, and then at the beginning of your actual turn, you would pay the standard cost.
I'm suspect the last one is it's intended meaning, but it's VERY unclear.
The last one makes a good amount of sense, and it CAN be read to preclude the "Two Rage Points your first round" reading, because when you enter Rage on your normal initiative, you aren't techinically in Rage "at the START of the round", so you don't need to pay the "normal" cost...?
This could be MAJORLY clarified, to something like:
alternately, if the "2 Rage Points for first round of Rage" was intended, why not just say:
The "additional" wording of the current text is the most confusing part,
and it assumes the reader will correctly combine the rule elements in their head, instead of just describing the distinct options.
I see this same type of thing in other places, like Improved Two Weapon Fighting, which instead of just saying "here are the new penalties for TWF", says "the off-hand gains a +6 bonus and the main-hand gains a +2 bonus on top of the normal TWF penalties" -- forcing the reader to do math instead of just laying out the new scenario.
In the Fighter class features, under bonus feat it specified that " These bonus feats must be selected from either fighter bonus feats or combat feats (see the Feats chapter)." Still no where it is written wich feats are fighter bonus feat. But most of previously fighter bonus feat, if not all, are now combat feat.
I've detected a bit of redundancy:
On pages 14 & 15 which discuss how Rage Powers work; under Rage Powers, it states: "Unless otherwise noted, these abilities are swift actions that must be performed on the barbarian's turn."
I would shorten this sentence to read: "Unless otherwise noted, all rage powers are used as swift actions." I say this because swift actions can only be used on the character's own turn.
The Intimidate Skill:
For Demoralize:
It is unclear if this use of the skill affects one target within 30' or all targets within 30'.
It should also be noted if this is a mind-affecting, fear effect as the introductory description suggests, or not, and if foes resistant/immune to fear get a bonus/ignore the attempt.
For example: the Fighter's Bravery ability would raise the DC by 1 to 5 points depending on level, and the Paladin's Aura of Courage makes him immune.
I know that this is not regarding fighter, barbarian, or ranger, but I can't find the other errata thread.
On page 223, in the description for Divine Power, it states:
"Whenever you make a full-attack action, you can make on additional attack..."
on should be changed to one.
Ranger bonus feats are messed up--two of the feats (Exact Targeting/Pinpoint Targeting, I think; I'm away from my PDF and can't download another right now) were merged into one, and the ranger's bonus feats weren't adjusted.
Y'know, I thought this was weird at first too, but on rethinking it, it basically means that you have (list A) from which you can choose with the CS feats you get up to 10th level, and then (list B) from which you can choose afterwards. It basically prevents taking a (list B) feat with your 10th level bonus feat.Ranger Combat Style Feats
There are some problems with the Ranger’s combat style feats.First, Table 4-10 lists a combat style feat at 10th level, but in the Combat Style Feat entry itself, new feats are added to the list at 11th level. Should this availability be changed to 10th level to match when the ranger actually gains a new feat?
A simple question: what's the sense in that? If you shouldn't be able to get the new feats at level 10 but should be able to get them on level 14, why should they be available "At 11th level"? Either they should be available at level 10 OR at level 14 - level 11 just doesn't make sense.
I think there is a simple glitch in the "translation" to Pathfinder. In 3.5, the ranger gets his combat style bonus feats on levels 2, 6 and 11, while in Pathfinder he gets his CSFs at levels 2, 6, 10, 14 and 18. So the "11" is just a "leftover" from 3.5 - and thus a type.
Since Pathfinder tries to "improve" the original base classes, I really think the new feats should be available at level 10.
Just my 2 cents.
Cheers,
Igor[Rock]
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Barbarian alignment
The barbarian has a requirement of being any non-lawful alignment, but there are no rules for "ex-barbarians" as there are for all other classes with alignment requirements. (The SRD had "ex-barbarian" rules, but I don't see them in the beta.) Does this mean a barbarian character could conceivably change their alignment to lawful after 1st level without any repercussions? If so, why not just change the barbarian's alignment requirements to "any"? Or am I just missing the text?
[from another thread] no need to put my name in the thread.. I try to read all of the threads, so it is generally unnecessary [...]
OK, I won't do it again.
Now to Hunter’s Bond.
"This bond can take one of two forms. The first is a bond to his companions.[...] The second option is to form a close bond with an animal companion."
Now my questions:
1) Can I change bond? Let's say I start with a animal companion and by level 5 i think this is not the right thing for me, can I releases the animal and bond with my companions?
2) If so when and how?
3) Can I break the bond to my companions and get an animal companion. If yes and how? If not, what happens if the die or go evil or something.
4) If I can change bond (from companions to animal companion or the other way) - how often can it be done? Once per level or more often or less or only when I gane level?
Zark aka TomJohn
I just detailed a new style I came up in another thread on this board. The ranged combat style needs fixing as others have already been mentioned. For brevity's sake I will post the new proposed style here:
Zweihander or Two Handed Weapon Style
As you might expect the focus of this style is on large weapons like great clubs, great axes, great swords and most pole arms. This appeals to mountain folk, lumberjacks and similar types of rangers.
At 2nd Level the player has the following choices: Improved Initiative, Overhead Chop, Power Attack, Quick Draw
At 6th Level the following are added to the pool of choices: Back Swing and Cleave
At 11th Level the following are added: Devastating Blow and Great Cleave
Fenrys Star: What part of "Errata and Typos" don't you understand?
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Welcome to the Errata and Typos thread for the Barbarian, Fighter, and Ranger portions of the classes chaper. If you spot any typos or rules that need errata in this section, please post them to this thread. Note that this is not a thread for discussing rules changes, only obvious mistakes or unclear rules. We have done our best to make these chapters as clean as possible, but 10,000 eyes are better than 12. Thanks for your help.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
This may or may not be the place to ask this in terms of the fighter. If it is not then I apologize in advance. I noticed that the Bravery ability that fighters aquire at 2nd has no descriptor so does that mean it would stack with a morale based bonus related to fear? Or should it be considered a morale bonus and therefore not stack with other morale bonuses?
Barbarian Update:
p1 clarify: Rage, 1. section, last sentence, add ONCE A DAY or something similar to "...renewed after resting for 8 hours..."
p1 clarify: Rage, last sentence, "cannot rage while fatigued" What about exhaustion?
p1 clarify: Intimidating Clare, what is the DC?
p2 clarify: Quick Reflexes, stacks with Combat Reflexes?
p2 hint: Tireless Rage, this lessens the value of Roused Anger
I apologize if someone else already mentioned this . . .
Page 15: Barbarian Entry, Improved Uncanny Dodge
"This denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the barbarian by flanking him . . . "
Gender has always matched that of the iconic character, which in this case is female. It ought to be "her".