Hello all,
I'm currently creating a sorcerer for a PFRPG/3.5 hybrid game. I'm not used to playing arcane casters and my wizard just died last game. DM through a ECL 12 at our party of seven lvl 5 characters. My 15HP wiz got taken out in the first round of combat by a 33dmg cone of cold.
Anyway, I'm trying to build a blaster/de-buffer. I know wizards are better at de-buff/battlefield control but the entire party just whined the whole time because I wasn't dealing damage. They just sort of blanked over every time I tried to explain how much more effective I was being by nauseating, tripping, and immobilizing all our enemies every round. Not to mention buffing with haste and enlarge person and saving everyone's @$$ with Benign Transposition.
Here is my current line-up for a 6th level sorcerer:
1st:
Burning Hands (bloodline)
Magic Missle
Grease
Ray of Enfeeblement
?????
2nd:
Scorching Burst (bloodline)
Ray of Stupidity (I think this is 2nd level, right?)
Wings of Cover
3rd:
??????
As you can see I've left some holes that I just haven't figured out what to fill with. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thank you.
1st
Shield (for personal defence) or Expedious Retreat for mobility.
3rd
Dispel Magic, Fireball
I kind of want to avoid Fireball. We are playing in the Ptolus campaign setting so all of our adventuring so far has taken place in cramped dungeons for our party size. I would end up nuking my party members as much as the monsters. Also, I've been desperately trying to show everyone at my table that Fireball is not the greatest spell in the game. :)
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I have a very similar problem. Everyone expects me, as a mage, to pick up every damage spell in the game. I have a hard time picking up spells without people 'whining' about how i didn't choose fireball, or cone of cold.
Can't remember the thread at the moment, but someone showed me the 'virtues' of playing a diviner (specialist wizard) banning the evocation school. I'd search for it, but i'm at work at the moment.
I have a very similar problem. Everyone expects me, as a mage, to pick up every damage spell in the game. I have a hard time picking up spells without people 'whining' about how i didn't choose fireball, or cone of cold.
Can't remember the thread at the moment, but someone showed me the 'virtues' of playing a diviner (specialist wizard) banning the evocation school. I'd search for it, but i'm at work at the moment.
Yeah, my wizard was a Focused Conjurer. I had more spells per day than a sorcerer and could lock down entire rooms. I constantly had people falling over grease spells, puking their guts out in clouds, or buffing the fighter to the point where has was dishing out over 40dmg a round, with a 10ft. reach and extra attacks, and was squashing prone enemies who couldn't fight back. How is this worse than a Fireball that, at our level, only does about 15 average dmg and can be saved for 7dmg?
But because I wasn't doing anything directly to the enemy they kept referring to me as being useless. Nevermind that I saved the fighter and cleric's lives on multiple occasions by using Benign Transposition and taking them, literally, out of the jaws of death. Players easily get mislead by flashy evocation powers but most of them just aren't worth it. Very frustrating.
Doing well in DnD combat isn't just about damage. Especially when you start running into SR, DR, and energy immunities.
If you are set on those current spells, I would probably add:
1st - color spray for area effect crowd control.
2nd - scorching ray instead of ray of stupidity.Those are some of my favorites from the core rules.
Sorry, when I wrote Scorching BURST in the OP I meant to type Scorching RAY. I'll edit this if I can.
I agree with the choice of Color Spray, especially with Sculpt Spell and the like, but we already have a Beguiler in the party who can spontaneously cast it. I'm trying to avoid overlapping with her as much as possible. I apologize, as I should have mentioned that in the first place. All in all, we have a cleric, beguiler, and low-level druid in the party.
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I kind of want to avoid Fireball. We are playing in the Ptolus campaign setting so all of our adventuring so far has taken place in cramped dungeons for our party size. I would end up nuking my party members as much as the monsters. Also, I've been desperately trying to show everyone at my table that Fireball is not the greatest spell in the game. :)1st
Shield (for personal defence) or Expedious Retreat for mobility.
3rd
Dispel Magic, Fireball
We play in Ptolus as well, and our mage uses 'Slow' to great effect.
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I have a very similar problem. Everyone expects me, as a mage, to pick up every damage spell in the game. I have a hard time picking up spells without people 'whining' about how i didn't choose fireball, or cone of cold.
Can't remember the thread at the moment, but someone showed me the 'virtues' of playing a diviner (specialist wizard) banning the evocation school. I'd search for it, but i'm at work at the moment.
Our mage doesnt take much, if any DD spells in our Ptolus campagin. He uses alot of crowd control to great effect to help the party.
Glitterdust at 2nd, Slow at 3rd, Grease at 1st......
Seeing him in action is believing...
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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I am currently playing 3 casters in PbPs at the moment (they are all multi-class though).
Only one of them has anything approaching a typical spell selection (Coralee) and Elizabeth even as Evocation as a Prohibited School.
You don't have to pick fireball every time. Contrary to popular belief it's not a staple spell.
I have a very similar problem. Everyone expects me, as a mage, to pick up every damage spell in the game. I have a hard time picking up spells without people 'whining' about how i didn't choose fireball, or cone of cold.
Can't remember the thread at the moment, but someone showed me the 'virtues' of playing a diviner (specialist wizard) banning the evocation school. I'd search for it, but i'm at work at the moment.
Our mage doesnt take much, if any DD spells in our Ptolus campagin. He uses alot of crowd control to great effect to help the party.
Glitterdust at 2nd, Slow at 3rd, Grease at 1st......
Seeing him in action is believing...
My conjurer had all those spells and more....and still the complaining went on. I've been able to negate every single caster that the DM has thrown at us with just a handful of spells, but my party just doesn't get it. Meanwhile, the Beguiler only uses Whelm over and over again because "It's my only offensive spell." Nevermind that she could be throwing illusions around or enchanting enemies. And then wastes tons and tons of scrolls throwing resisted fireballs around that do absolutely nothing. She dies and gets resurrected. I die, and apparently the character wasn't useful enough to ressurect. Grrrrr....
Anyway, back to the original topic.
The Beguiler already has both Slow and Haste on her spell list, so I don't really need to take those spells. As such, picking my 3rd level spell has been the hardest decision so far. I'm currently leaning towards Ray of Exhaustion unless someone knows of a decent 3rd lvl blaster spell out there that also has an effect other than damage?
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Might I suggest Sand Blast from Necromancer Games' Eldrich Sorcery?
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: Cone
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Fortitude half
Spell Resistance: Yes
By casting sand blast, you cause a cone of powerful, hot sand to erupt from your hand, moving outward with the force of a scorching desert wind.
Small flames such as torches are automatically extinguished. Anyone within the cone of stinging sand must make a Fortitude save or have the moisture sucked from their bodies and take 4d6 points of damage. A successful save reduces this damage to 2d6. Furthermore, creatures who fail their save are considered dazed for 1d4 rounds.
Might I suggest Sand Blast from Necromancer Games' Eldrich Sorcery?
** spoiler omitted **
Wow, that is pretty gross. I might ask my DM about it, but unless it's in the PFRPG or an official DnD 3.5 source it might be a problem. Still, something to keep in mind. Thanks.
Manyjaws and Chain Missile are passable 3rd level damage spells.
I agree with the choice of Color Spray, especially with Sculpt Spell and the like, but we already have a Beguiler in the party who can spontaneously cast it. I'm trying to avoid overlapping with her as much as possible. I apologize, as I should have mentioned that in the first place. All in all, we have a cleric, beguiler, and low-level druid in the party.
Not that I agree with your group but I can see that if you already have a Beguiler in the group how they would want a direct damage spellcaster. Overrated in my book but to each their own.
You have enough damage in 1st level so Beign Transposition is still a good spell to have. One of my favs from the compendium.
For third level there is a spell in the compendium (who name I can't remember) that does one die of each type of energy damage. It starts at a d6 of each and end up at a d12 of each at something like lvl 12. It's a decent spell although you can see where it might suck vs some outsiders that have multiple energy resistances, but it is damage and something a little different without and area that complicates things.
Another option is to get a utility spell for third level (not Dispel Magic since the Beguiler can do it at will) and then use something like Extend Spell to make your Scourching rays reach further. At level 7 you'll get two rays which will do more damage that a fireball to one creature and the to hit roll is never really that much of a problem. Even energy substitution so that you can do an acid ray would vary it up a bit.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Wow, that is pretty gross. I might ask my DM about it, but unless it's in the PFRPG or an official DnD 3.5 source it might be a problem. Still, something to keep in mind. Thanks.Might I suggest Sand Blast from Necromancer Games' Eldrich Sorcery?
** spoiler omitted **
Didn't think it that bad myself, cone, fixed damage, secondary effect only on a failed save.
That said, I like it because it's fortitude, not reflex (take that you rogues!) and it's very desert thematic.
Eldrich Sorcery is kind of a Tome of Horrors for spells. A lot of the classics are in there. Including 'Boulder to Pebble' always a favourite for the folks with dispelling screens or antimagic shell.
"Oh yeah?" *pulls handfull of preshrunk boulders from pouch and throws* "Dispell this!"
Manyjaws and Chain Missile are passable 3rd level damage spells.
I have considered Manyjaws as a candidate. I've never heard of Chain Missile before. I'll have to look that one up. Thank you.
Not that I agree with your group but I can see that if you already have a Beguiler in the group how they would want a direct damage spellcaster. Overrated in my book but to each their own.
I would agree with them except that the Beguiler never casts anything other than Whelm!! *eye roll* He really doesn't seem to understand how the class is supposed to work and he gets angry and defensive if I try to help him out. He mostly relies on UMD'ing all of the wands and items I couldn't use because of forbidden schools.
You have enough damage in 1st level so Beign Transposition is still a good spell to have. One of my favs from the compendium.
I'd like to keep using this spell, but it was a common staple of my Conjurer and I'd probably get flack for taking it. So it goes. I may end up using Nerveskitter as my last 1st level, as it's an immediate action and is better than wasting a feat on improved initiative. I can also use it on the Beguiler so he can caste Haste as early as possible.
Another option is to get a utility spell for third level (not Dispel Magic since the Beguiler can do it at will) and then use something like Extend Spell to make your Scourching rays reach further. At level 7 you'll get two rays which will do more damage that a fireball to one creature and the to hit roll is never really that much of a problem. Even energy substitution so that you can do an acid ray would vary it up a bit.
This might work well, although casting Scorching Ray over and over again may get kind of vanilla. But, it seems I must bow to the whims of my party. Maybe if I'm lucky I can convince them to resurrect my Conjurer after all. :D Thank you for the suggestions.
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You need some personal protection at some level so I'd take shield at level 1 (or any other personal protection spell including benign trasposition, which was a great suggestion). Expeditious retreat is also a good suggestion; however, once you start taking more defensive spells I'd strongly suggest invisibility when you can just so you have the chance to get the spells off without the enemy swarming you.
Manyjaws is a good spell, but the concentration component may turn off many spellcasters (and our DM absolutely hates the spell for other reasons). Go for something colorful like Rainbow Beam :) that's what I say.
You need some personal protection at some level so I'd take shield at level 1 (or any other personal protection spell including benign trasposition, which was a great suggestion). Expeditious retreat is also a good suggestion; however, once you start taking more defensive spells I'd strongly suggest invisibility when you can just so you have the chance to get the spells off without the enemy swarming you.
Manyjaws is a good spell, but the concentration component may turn off many spellcasters (and our DM absolutely hates the spell for other reasons). Go for something colorful like Rainbow Beam :) that's what I say.
I will give Shield some consideration. Currently my primary protection spell is Wings of Cover. For those unfamiliar with the spell, I gain total cover against a single attack, spell, or psionic power as an immediate action. If it's an area effect then I gain a +8 to my AC and +4 to Reflex against the effect.
I will give Shield some consideration. Currently my primary protection spell is Wings of Cover. For those unfamiliar with the spell, I gain total cover against a single attack, spell, or psionic power as an immediate action. If it's an area effect then I gain a +8 to my AC and +4 to Reflex against the effect.
Wings of Cover is an awesome spell. I had it on one of my sorcerers and it saved my bacon many a times. Rainbow Beam I believe is the 3rd level spell I was thinking of.
Rainbow Beam I believe is the 3rd level spell I was thinking of.
Rainbow Beam, huh? I haven't seen that spell mentioned in any other online guides so I'll have to look it up. The idea of actually rolling all my worthless d12's intrigues me. :)
Here's what I'm currently thinking of.
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Lvl 6 Elemental Sorcerer
1st:
Burning Hands (bloodline power)
Magic Missile
Grease
Nerveskitter or Shield
Ray of Enfeeblement
2nd:
Scorching Ray (bloodline power)
Wings of Cover
Ray of Stupidity
3rd:
Manyjaws
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I finally decided on Manyjaws as my 3rd level power because it does the same damage as Fireball, lasts for 3 rounds or concentration, and is untyped. Casting two of these in a row would be dealing 6d6 for 2 rounds and 12d6 for 2 rounds, spread out as I see fit. I can also sustain it and not worry about wasting other spells. And if I don't want to sustain I can also keep blasting them with other stuff in the mean time.
Here's what I'm currently thinking of.
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Lvl 6 Elemental Sorcerer
1st:
Burning Hands (bloodline power)
Magic Missile
Grease
Nerveskitter or Shield
Ray of Enfeeblement
If you're considering Shield as a spell I would personally prefer Mage Armour: its got the same bonus, lasts a lot longer and can be cast on another (just in case the fighter looses his armour to a rust monster :P )
Once you are high enough level to have Bracers of Armour +5 or more you can swap it out for Shield to get both bonuses if necessary.
Here's what I'm currently thinking of.
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Lvl 6 Elemental Sorcerer
1st:
Burning Hands (bloodline power)
Magic Missile
Grease
Nerveskitter or Shield
Ray of Enfeeblement
If you're considering Shield as a spell I would personally prefer Mage Armour: its got the same bonus, lasts a lot longer and can be cast on another (just in case the fighter looses his armour to a rust monster :P )
Once you are high enough level to have Bracers of Armour +5 or more you can swap it out for Shield to get both bonuses if necessary.
I would normally be right with you on this one. With my wizard dead, however, there are now +3 Bracers of Armor and an Eternal Wand of Mage Armor lying around (Not to mention the Healing Belt that I never got to use because I died in one blast). Also, the Beguiler in the group can already spontaneously cast Mage Armor, so it's covered. As such, if I had to choose an armor buff at 1st level, it makes more sense for me to go with shield. Thanks, though, I appreciate your suggestions.
We already had to fight without armor during the encounter where my wizard died. Our DM thought it would be fun to throw a ECL 11 at our lvl 5 party while we were sleeping and trying to gain our spells back. :P Between the beguiler and my wand we had more than enough Mage Armor to go around.
I'm currently leaning towards Ray of Exhaustion unless someone knows of a decent 3rd lvl blaster spell out there that also has an effect other than damage?
Instead of Ray of Exhaustion, take the Empower Spell feat and use it on Ray of Enfeeblement. It uses the same level spell slot, but is usually more effective.
Fly is a good choice for a 3rd level spell, so that someone other than the druid can get off the ground. The sorceror in my campaign was kicking himself for not taking it with one of his first two 3rd level spells.
I'm currently leaning towards Ray of Exhaustion unless someone knows of a decent 3rd lvl blaster spell out there that also has an effect other than damage?Instead of Ray of Exhaustion, take the Empower Spell feat and use it on Ray of Enfeeblement. It uses the same level spell slot, but is usually more effective.
Fly is a good choice for a 3rd level spell, so that someone other than the druid can get off the ground. The sorceror in my campaign was kicking himself for not taking it with one of his first two 3rd level spells.
I may take Fly as my second 3rd Level spell but don't think it would be a good choice now. So far, in our Ptolus campaign, there has been maybe...one occasion where I could have used it, and it wasn't during a fight. All but one encounter of our adventure has taken place underground. As such, fly wouldn't be very useful for our particular campaign.
I may take Fly as my second 3rd Level spell but don't think it would be a good choice now. So far, in our Ptolus campaign, there has been maybe...one occasion where I could have used it, and it wasn't during a fight. All but one encounter of our adventure has taken place underground. As such, fly wouldn't be very useful for our particular campaign.
On my last sorcerer I found fly to be just as useful if not more useful underground. It has a speed of 60 which was faster than my normal movement rate. I never worried about falling into those pesky pit traps or reaching the ledge above. Decenting down into the unknown pit without losing my Dex bonus was nice and having my hands free for wands and spell casting. There are typically still rooms with vaulted ceilings so you can get a higher vantage point during a fight. maybe I'm just a big fan of Fly. :)
Where is wings of cover and rainbow beam from?
Wings of Cover is an awesome spell. I had it on one of my sorcerers and it saved my bacon many a times. Rainbow Beam I believe is the 3rd level spell I was thinking of.
Spell Compendium, I think. Rainbow Beam definitely.
On my last sorcerer I found fly to be just as useful if not more useful underground. It has a speed of 60 which was faster than my normal movement rate. I never worried about falling into those pesky pit traps or reaching the ledge above. Decenting down into the unknown pit without losing my Dex bonus was nice and having my hands free for wands and spell casting. There are typically still rooms with vaulted ceilings so you can get a higher vantage point during a fight. maybe I'm just a big fan of Fly. :)
I may take Fly as my second 3rd Level spell but don't think it would be a good choice now. So far, in our Ptolus campaign, there has been maybe...one occasion where I could have used it, and it wasn't during a fight. All but one encounter of our adventure has taken place underground. As such, fly wouldn't be very useful for our particular campaign.
That's true, I never just considered the speed boost. Makes it kind of a super expeditious retreat. It's worth considering but there are two other things to consider for this game.
1) It's a Pathfinder hybrid, so I'd have to take ranks in the Fly skill or risk looking like an idiot while I was smashing my head into the ceiling.
2) I'm using the Elemental bloodline so by 15th level I'll get fly at-will. Although for this, I suppose I could always just re-train the spell later.
I might take Fly when another 3rd level spell known pops up.
Where is wings of cover and rainbow beam from?
Wings of Cover is an awesome spell. I had it on one of my sorcerers and it saved my bacon many a times. Rainbow Beam I believe is the 3rd level spell I was thinking of.
Wings of Cover is from Races of the Dragon and Rainbow Beam and Rainbow Burst are from the Spell Compendium.
1) It's a Pathfinder hybrid, so I'd have to take ranks in the Fly skill or risk looking like an idiot while I was smashing my head into the ceiling.
2) I'm using the Elemental bloodline so by 15th level I'll get fly at-will. Although for this, I suppose I could always just re-train the spell later.
3) If your party members thinks that great spells like Slow, Glitterdust and Stinking Cloud are useless, they'll probably think the same about Fly!
3) If your party members thinks that great spells like Slow, Glitterdust and Stinking Cloud are useless, they'll probably think the same about Fly!1) It's a Pathfinder hybrid, so I'd have to take ranks in the Fly skill or risk looking like an idiot while I was smashing my head into the ceiling.
2) I'm using the Elemental bloodline so by 15th level I'll get fly at-will. Although for this, I suppose I could always just re-train the spell later.
You're probably right. :)
They're all pretty straightforward and don't really take the time to understand all the supplemental materials they're using. They get impressed by things that are flashy but not entirely useful. The fact that they kept asking my Conjurer why he wasn't using Summon Monster spells prior to reaching 5th level just goes to show that they don't understand all the little nuances that make great wizard spells.
It's a 7 person party so it's usually me defending my spell selection against 6 people at once. Occasionaly the DM throws in a word to help me but that's about it. At this point I'd rather just make a blaster/de-buffer and be done with it. It won't be as much fun for me but at least I won't have to feel defensive all the time or have people actually shouting at me because my clouds provide concealment.
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Does anyone have thoughts on taking Sleep and Shield as the two starting first level spells?
I'm planning on making a sorcerer for a War of the Burning Sky game, where arcane magic is hated and feared, and the character concept is a sorcerer who pretends to be a rogue by putting people to sleep and then robbing them. The question is whether those spells will be useful enough to start the campaign off. After that I would probably focus on illusions for the most part - does anyone have thoughts on a good utility spell list going from that theme?
Does anyone have thoughts on taking Sleep and Shield as the two starting first level spells?
I'm planning on making a sorcerer for a War of the Burning Sky game, where arcane magic is hated and feared, and the character concept is a sorcerer who pretends to be a rogue by putting people to sleep and then robbing them. The question is whether those spells will be useful enough to start the campaign off. After that I would probably focus on illusions for the most part - does anyone have thoughts on a good utility spell list going from that theme?
Sleep is save or die at low levels but will need to be re-trained out as it loses its effectiveness rather quickly. Mage armor would likely be better than Shield unless you're expecting a lot of magic missiles.
Silent Image is possibly one of the best 1st level spells in the game as it's only really limited by imagination. One fun trick is to use it to recreate as many higher level spell effects as possible to throw people off. Create clouds, walls, thorn bushes, etc. It can be effective, multiuse battlefield control. Also, putting an illusory bridge over pits and stairs is loads of fun for the whole family. :)
I'd probably take it myself if the Beguiler in our party didn't already have it.
You're probably right. :)
They're all pretty straightforward and don't really take the time to understand all the supplemental materials they're using. They get impressed by things that are flashy but not entirely useful. The fact that they kept asking my Conjurer why he wasn't using Summon Monster spells prior to reaching 5th level just goes to show that they don't understand all the little nuances that make great wizard spells.
It's a 7 person party so it's usually me defending my spell selection against 6 people at once. Occasionaly the DM throws in a word to help me but that's about it. At this point I'd rather just make a blaster/de-buffer and be done with it. It won't be as much fun for me but at least I won't have to feel defensive all the time or have people actually shouting at me because my clouds provide concealment.
What about any of the spells that add an energy type to a weapon for third level. They are decent spells that add a lot of damage potetial to the group and should be flashy enough to make the group happy. With metamagic feats like energy sustitution you could have two energy types to choose from.
What about any of the spells that add an energy type to a weapon for third level. They are decent spells that add a lot of damage potetial to the group and should be flashy enough to make the group happy. With metamagic feats like energy sustitution you could have two energy types to choose from.
I'm not very familiar with those (only my second arcane caster ever). I'm guessing most of them have a range of touch, though. Am I right?
I'm not very familiar with those (only my second arcane caster ever). I'm guessing most of them have a range of touch, though. Am I right?
What about any of the spells that add an energy type to a weapon for third level. They are decent spells that add a lot of damage potetial to the group and should be flashy enough to make the group happy. With metamagic feats like energy sustitution you could have two energy types to choose from.
I think the one out of the PHB is Flame Arrow. It adds a d6 fire to up to 50 projectiles or one ranged weapon. It's duration in something like 10 minutes per level. They have some other verations in the Compendium as well.
I have no suggestions about the spells you should learn (others have covered if far more admirably than I could, since I lack the Spell Compendium), but in regards to your party members... yeah. My advice would be, when they start to b!*#* and moan, ask them if they want to make the wizard instead, since they apparently know so much. But if they're really as rules-ignorant as you describe, then that probably won't work. I would also suggest not avoiding spell-selection overlap with the beguiler (blech!), but actually seeking it out. If he never uses his abilities, then there won't, in truth, be any overlap afterall. And when you're using those spells to great effect on the battlefield, ask him why he isn't and hasn't been since he knows them, too? Maybe he'll get jealous and want to be effective, too.
Sometimes, fighting fire with fire is the best option. I don't know about the group dynamics, but if you don't think it would cause irreprable long-term fallout with fellow players, you could try not doing anything in combat. Instead, use your actions to call out to your allies with snarky comments ("Quick, cast web! Oh, that's right, you didn't take it because 'it sucks,' silly me;" "If only someone could cast dispel magic on the enemy mage! Oh, look, I have it! But why would ever I waste my precious time with such a useless spell?")
Your mileage may vary, but I have little tolerance for such dismissive and negative attitudes towards fellow players at the table, regardless of their chosen class, and particularly when the comments come from those obviously less experienced and knowledgeable about the game.
I have no suggestions about the spells you should learn (others have covered if far more admirably than I could, since I lack the Spell Compendium), but in regards to your party members... yeah. My advice would be, when they start to b@%*~ and moan, ask them if they want to make the wizard instead, since they apparently know so much. But if they're really as rules-ignorant as you describe, then that probably won't work. I would also suggest not avoiding spell-selection overlap with the beguiler (blech!), but actually seeking it out. If he never uses his abilities, then there won't, in truth, be any overlap afterall. And when you're using those spells to great effect on the battlefield, ask him why he isn't and hasn't been since he knows them, too? Maybe he'll get jealous and want to be effective, too.
Sometimes, fighting fire with fire is the best option. I don't know about the group dynamics, but if you don't think it would cause irreprable long-term fallout with fellow players, you could try not doing anything in combat. Instead, use your actions to call out to your allies with snarky comments ("Quick, cast web! Oh, that's right, you didn't take it because 'it sucks,' silly me;" "If only someone could cast dispel magic on the enemy mage! Oh, look, I have it! But why would ever I waste my precious time with such a useless spell?")
Your mileage may vary, but I have little tolerance for such dismissive and negative attitudes towards fellow players at the table, regardless of their chosen class, and particularly when the comments come from those obviously less experienced and knowledgeable about the game.
I purposely joined this game to avoid a group that was even worse. I have bad luck finding groups that mesh well with me. :)
At this point I'm willing to switch to something more akin to what the group wants. Roleplaying is roleplaying and as long as I have something to do then I won't be terribly bored. It was more frustrating having a ton of useful spells that I couldn't use because no one wanted them on the field. With web and a few cloud spells I could lock down an entire room, but then they'd complain about the cover or concealment problems. A lot of this would be avoided if cloud spells were dismissable...but they are not. The rest of my spells were plenty effective but not flashy enough to garner any interest. We'll see how it turns out. It's up to them to resurrect the Conjurer or not, but if this is my contingency character, it could be worse. Maybe this one won't get nuked in the first round by an ECL that's 4 levels above our party. :)
As an aside, have you considered the Battle Soceror variant from UA? Just from a survivability standpoint it might be worth it. d8 hp and a cleric BAB, able to wear light armor and cast spells in it with no penalty. You sacrifice some spellcasting and spells known (which can be recovered wtih a strategic runestaff from the MIC).
I'm currently creating a sorcerer for a PFRPG/3.5 hybrid game. I'm not used to playing arcane casters and my wizard just died last game. DM through a ECL 12 at our party of seven lvl 5 characters. My 15HP wiz got taken out in the first round of combat by a 33dmg cone of cold.
My advice is to take the Run feat. EL+6 is just bad news... and possibly a sign of a bad DM. And your players sound ungrateful. Locking down opponents is classic divide and conquer strategy. Still, it seems like you're in a kick in the door type of campaign.
Our DM thought it would be fun to throw a ECL 11 at our lvl 5 party while we were sleeping and trying to gain our spells back. :P
And... there's some more evidence for the DM Evil hypothesis.
For survivability, I'm going to recommend playing a coward with the Dash and Run feats along with expeditious retreat and a level in barbarian. You're not going to beat this DM, so the best thing you can do is maximize the chances that another player will be caught lagging as you run away.
It's a 7 person party so it's usually me defending my spell selection against 6 people at once. Occasionaly the DM throws in a word to help me but that's about it.
Just tell them flat out that it's not a democracy and pick the spells you want. Its all fine giving suggestions to help other people out but there is no need for your to "defend" your spell selections to the people in your group.
Stinking Cloud is awesome at third level, tell your fellow gamers to stuff it.
Haste is great... even if the beguiler has it.
A lot of people pan it but Summon Monster is a decent spell third level spell. If lets you do some basic battlefield control (block off exits, force enemies to attack your summoned creature instead of party members), plus it offers some utility in with flight, tunnelling (badger) and earth glide for scouting ahead. Also, summoning 1-3 riding dogs can make a bunch of great flank buddies.
1st level I like silent image... lots of potential there making fake walls/ pits/ whatever. The usefulness of Silent image is often dependent upon the DM though.
Sometimes, fighting fire with fire is the best option. I don't know about the group dynamics, but if you don't think it would cause irreprable long-term fallout with fellow players, you could try not doing anything in combat. Instead, use your actions to call out to your allies with snarky comments
This is a horrible idea. Just make up your mind what spells you want to take in advance and don't discuss it with your other players. When it comes time to level up give the DM your list. If they offer comment tell them thanks but your choice is already been made.
No reason for anyone to get snarky or rude, that just causes more issues, just be firm and don't debate it.
Sometimes, fighting fire with fire is the best option. I don't know about the group dynamics, but if you don't think it would cause irreprable long-term fallout with fellow players, you could try not doing anything in combat. Instead, use your actions to call out to your allies with snarky commentsThis is a horrible idea.
Yeah, I kinda guessed that as soon as I wrote it. Must have just been in a funky mood. I just get frustrated when I hear about people who have to put up with this kind of crap, especially since rational discourse usually seems to go no where. Then the only choices available are continual frustration (not good), verbal combat (usually not good), or just walking away (also typically not good, but in some cases the best option there is).
Yeah, I kinda guessed that as soon as I wrote it. Must have just been in a funky mood. I just get frustrated when I hear about people who have to put up with this kind of crap, especially since rational discourse usually seems to go no where. Then the only choices available are continual frustration (not good), verbal combat (usually not good), or just walking away (also typically not good, but in some cases the best option there is).
What ever happened to "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em"? If they like running in headlong and hacking at everything in sight, you could always try making the same kind of character and joining in the fun.
If 9 out of 10 players prefer their fights to be more like a riot than a chess match, there's nothing wrong with that. I'm playing in one game with 6 or 7 melee fighters and a couple of spellcasters. The melee types hate spells like Black Tentacles or Solid Fog, so the spellcasters stay away from them. Do I think that's the most effective method? Nope, but we manage to muddle through somehow.
What ever happened to "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em"? If they like running in headlong and hacking at everything in sight, you could always try making the same kind of character and joining in the fun.
If 9 out of 10 players prefer their fights to be more like a riot than a chess match, there's nothing wrong with that. I'm playing in one game with 6 or 7 melee fighters and a couple of spellcasters. The melee types hate spells like Black Tentacles or Solid Fog, so the spellcasters stay away from them. Do I think that's the most effective method? Nope, but we manage to muddle through somehow.
I have no trouble with that idea and have made that choice myself in the past. I have a lot of trouble with a group of players strong arming one member of the group on how he's going to build his character.
This makes me think again of Summon Monster. One of the advantages of Summon Monster is it is battlefield control that handles chaos well. While someone might gripe that you just put a cloud up obstructing half the battlefield, very few party members are going to complain about the fact that a giant Bison is soaking up (and dishing out) attacks and cutting off half the enemies mooks. The rogue will also love the possibility of a nearly continuous flank buddy.
I ticked off the DM once, the BBEG was making a break for the door and he had a clear shot... until I summoned a bright Pink Poodle between him and the entrance (that's what we decided SMI bought you). Delayed him just long enough for everyone else to take him down.
