If anybody's interested... from the WotC boards, a long thread on the subject.
That's a great thread and sums up much of what we've talked about here. Mainly that HASTE is all kinds of awesome. My Summon Monster didn't even make anyone's list... sniff.
I think it's interesting that so many people liked lightning bolt... personally I think it's a lemon.
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They're all pretty straightforward and don't really take the time to understand all the supplemental materials they're using. They get impressed by things that are flashy but not entirely useful. The fact that they kept asking my Conjurer why he wasn't using Summon Monster spells prior to reaching 5th level just goes to show that they don't understand all the little nuances that make great wizard spells.
It's a 7 person party so it's usually me defending my spell selection against 6 people at once. Occasionaly the DM throws in a word to help me but that's about it. At this point I'd rather just make a blaster/de-buffer and be done with it. It won't be as much fun for me but at least I won't have to feel defensive all the time or have people actually shouting at me because my clouds provide concealment.
Dont bother trying to defend yourself. Just play what YOU want.
You dont tell the fighter what weapons to take, nor the rouge what skills to take, nor berate the cleric into taking just healing spells. They get no say in what spells you take.
Our wizard is simialr, and at first I had some private doubts of him never having DD spells handy. By the crowd control stuff works well. SLow, Glitterdust, grease....I'm a huge believer now.
Forget them, take the spells you want and tell'em to buy you a want of fireballs if they want direct damage.
Right. No one found the "run away" concept funny.
Okay. Basics to effective blasting:
Design your character so that you have the following abilities. You won't have them at first, but plan your spells known out and you will.
Have a signature spell that targets each saving throw type.
Have a spell that uses each type of energy or take the energy substitution feat to reduce your spells known cost.
Have a spell whose area of effect is a circle, a line, a cone, and targets.
Always remember: a fireball IS an battlefield control spell, as is the threat of one.
Everyone is going to gun for you once they figure out that you're the boom stick, the artillery that rains fire on their heads.
Forget about preparing for melee combat. You have limited flexibility and if you can't even count on your PCs to prevent that from happening, you might as well nerf out a CoDzilla.
Find cover. THEN blast.
Shield stops magic missiles, which will be as important as the AC bonus.
You need energy resistances more than anyone else. If the enemy kills you, they turn the tide of battle almost as much as if they kill the heal-bot. Prepare for that.
Feats and skills are for combat excellence in a kick down the door campaign. Flavor is what happens when you role play. A sorcerer has no room for error when it comes to feats: no wasting them on Improved Unarmed Combat or Persuasive or something.
Your role is to be a glass cannon. This will get you killed, especially with this party. Don't get upset about it. You can put that day off for as long as possible by WOWing your fellow players so that they devote resources and their brain cells to keeping you in the game. Use your CHA skills to supplement that with in-game reasons. Your goal as a player is to ensure that every last one of the PCs has a special reason to pull your ass out of the fire.
Dont bother trying to defend yourself. Just play what YOU want.You dont tell the fighter what weapons to take, nor the rouge what skills to take, nor berate the cleric into taking just healing spells. They get no say in what spells you take.
Our wizard is simialr, and at first I had some private doubts of him never having DD spells handy. By the crowd control stuff works well. SLow, Glitterdust, grease....I'm a huge believer now.
Forget them, take the spells you want and tell'em to buy you a want of fireballs if they want direct damage.
If you read his original post, that's exactly what he had been doing. But then he died and his party refused to raise him because they thought he wasn't doing much to contribute (which is presumably false, but that was the perception).
If you read his original post, that's exactly what he had been doing. But then he died and his party refused to raise him because they thought he wasn't doing much to contribute (which is presumably false, but that was the perception).
I'm trying to imagine what the role playing was like.
"Well, we went camping with each other for months. I trusted him to go into haunted ruins and the lairs of dangerous beasts. And we faced terrible monstrosities, but he never ran away and always did his best."
"But he was weak and I like the bling better. Pass the shovel."
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If you read his original post, that's exactly what he had been doing. But then he died and his party refused to raise him because they thought he wasn't doing much to contribute (which is presumably false, but that was the perception).
I did. And I'm telling him to build his character anyway the way he wants.
He's playing with crappy players, so he might as well have fun and make what he wants. I cant believe players did that to him.
Sometimes, fighting fire with fire is the best option. I don't know about the group dynamics, but if you don't think it would cause irreprable long-term fallout with fellow players, you could try not doing anything in combat. Instead, use your actions to call out to your allies with snarky commentsThis is a horrible idea. Just make up your mind what spells you want to take in advance and don't discuss it with your other players. When it comes time to level up give the DM your list. If they offer comment tell them thanks but your choice is already been made.
No reason for anyone to get snarky or rude, that just causes more issues, just be firm and don't debate it.
Yeah, this is sort of the direction I was going before the Ogre Mage turned my 15HP Conjurer into a popsicle in one blast. :)
They're just the types who would prefer to lose characters every other week then have slightly longer combats dealing with cloud spells. Cloud spells are amazing, but they do get in the way. A lot of the trouble could be avoided if clouds were just dismissible, but they are not. At least Pathfinder lets you dismiss things as a free action.
So it goes. They're all I have to work with right now and I'd rather have them than no gaming at all. :)
If anybody's interested... from the WotC boards, a long thread on the subject.
That's a great thread and sums up much of what we've talked about here. Mainly that HASTE is all kinds of awesome. My Summon Monster didn't even make anyone's list... sniff.
I think it's interesting that so many people liked lightning bolt... personally I think it's a lemon.
I agree about lightning bolt. Line spells just never do much for me. Too hard to get a decent amount of people lined up.
Forget them, take the spells you want and tell'em to buy you a wand of fireballs if they want direct damage.
This brings up a question from me. If I have the Evocation school prohibited, can I still use wands that use those spells?
Yeah, I kinda guessed that as soon as I wrote it. Must have just been in a funky mood. I just get frustrated when I hear about people who have to put up with this kind of crap, especially since rational discourse usually seems to go no where. Then the only choices available are continual frustration (not good), verbal combat (usually not good), or just walking away (also typically not good, but in some cases the best option there is).
This is also the same group who spent 5 minutes trying to explain to me that a spell with a duration of 4 rounds is supposed to go out of effect on the 3rd round. It was one of the most bizarre things I've ever seen and I just shook me head and said, "Fine, they're not blinded anymore and you have to fight them yourselves now."
They were counting the round I cast the spell as 1 round. It was so strange. These guys have been playing DnD in its various incarnation for about 20 years longer than I've been playing and they still couldn't add up their spell DCs correctly.
I actually went through the trouble of making spell cards for every single spell I cast. I lay it down on the battlegrid when I cast it with a die on it, keeping track of the duration. And they STILL want to argue about it. They're okay guys, but they like to argue way too much.
I spent 10 min. arguing with the Cleric about how he should be the one to use the Book of Insight and gain the +2 Wis bonus. He didn't want to because it would, "...only raise his spell DC's by one, give him a bonus spell, and increase his Will save." He was doing it just to be contrary. I've never known a player who would argue AGAINST improving his character just for the sake of argument. It was the biggest waste of breathe I've ever spent. :D
By the way, I just wanted to thank everyone for the opportunity to rant a few times on here. I know this started out as a simple help topic but it was nice to vent some of my frustrations. The last few years have been bad roleplaying years for me, with most of my RPG buddies moving away and me going from one group to another without any luck.
Our next game is tomorrow and hopefully we can lay a lot of this to rest. Thanks to everyone for their sorcerer advice. I'll let you know if the party raises my Conjurer or not. :)
Then may I recommend this thread?
This brings up a question from me. If I have the Evocation school prohibited, can I still use wands that use those spells?
Forget them, take the spells you want and tell'em to buy you a wand of fireballs if they want direct damage.
As a sorcerer, you have no prohibited schools. That's for specialist wizards.
As a sorcerer, you have no prohibited schools. That's for specialist wizards.This brings up a question from me. If I have the Evocation school prohibited, can I still use wands that use those spells?
Forget them, take the spells you want and tell'em to buy you a wand of fireballs if they want direct damage.
This was actually in reference to my Conjurer character, who died after the last session. I already looked it up earlier this week, and specialists can't use wands or scrolls to cast spells from prohibited schools. It's what we had all assumed but I couldn't remember EXACTLY.