The Red Dragon's Interview


4th Edition

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Latest 4th Edition cartoon


Well, the only thing about 4e that I had been excited about were the cartoons, and it seems like this last one was largely an excuse to poop on disgruntled fans and customers. Great way to mend bridges...


Lazaro wrote:

Latest 4th Edition cartoon

Hmmm...no clue where *this* is going.

Nope. No clue.

The Exchange

Lazaro wrote:
Latest 4th Edition cartoon

Nice. Well, they DID say they didn't need anyone who didn't "toe the party line" ...


Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
Well, the only thing about 4e that I had been excited about were the cartoons, and it seems like this last one was largely an excuse to poop on disgruntled fans and customers. Great way to mend bridges...

I think it does a pretty good job at poking fun at the hater trolls. The kobolds were really amusing as well.

EDIT: By the way, how come no one is pointing out that the video is also portraying 4th Edition fanboys as sycophants and boot-lickers? Looking for something to be offended over, huh?


I can't say I didn't laugh, but this does seem like a cheap shot against those disenchanted with 4e.

Sometimes I'm just not sure what D&D's marketing department is thinking. I, for one, think 4e is great, but WotC does make it hard to defend at times.


Um, serious question here.

How come nobody takes issue with the fact that the video makes 4E fans into sycophants and bootlickers?

Or is this a case of , "ah, well, since you like 4e, you're obviously a bootlicker"???

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16

I didn't pick up on the kobolds as 4E fanboys. I just thought they were kobolds.

Dark Archive

Come on, this is good natured fun the WoC way!
Its fun to annoy the haters as they won't buy 4th products anyway.
And its it's fun to annoy the lovers as they will buy the 4th products anyway!
No harm done, yes?

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32

No, you're all missing the obvious question: Why isn't it funny?

Elemtental breakdown: Dragon poop. Wow, realms of humor there. Yippy kobolds. Terribly original. Poking fun at both your fans and your detractors. Scads of funny. Dragon roasting the interviewer. Gosh, I swoon with laughter.

Now, if the dragon had been devouring a GNOME orphanage... FUNNY.

Too bad they spent time making this instead of, you know, making the Online Tools work.

Seriously, how does this bring in new fans? Recruit new roleplayers? Advance any aspect of the hobby? Do anything besides taking up time and bandwidth and eliciting the odd giggle? Anyone?


Bleach wrote:

Um, serious question here.

How come nobody takes issue with the fact that the video makes 4E fans into sycophants and bootlickers?

Or is this a case of , "ah, well, since you like 4e, you're obviously a bootlicker"???

Methinks you may be reading a bit much into it. It is WotC, not James Joyce.

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

James Martin wrote:

No, you're all missing the obvious question: Why isn't it funny?

Elemtental breakdown: Dragon poop. Wow, realms of humor there. Yippy kobolds. Terribly original. Poking fun at both your fans and your detractors. Scads of funny. Dragon roasting the interviewer. Gosh, I swoon with laughter.

Now, if the dragon had been devouring a GNOME orphanage... FUNNY.

Too bad they spent time making this instead of, you know, making the Online Tools work.

Seriously, how does this bring in new fans? Recruit new roleplayers? Advance any aspect of the hobby? Do anything besides taking up time and bandwidth and eliciting the odd giggle? Anyone?

QFT! I'll admit that I thought the original gnome video was funny. But it got old real quick, especially when I realized that they were treating their decisions to remove certain classic elements from the game (or at least severely alter them) as fodder for jokes instead of legitimate cause for complaint from their supposed customer base. It's almost like they wrote off dissenters from the get-go and never even tried to bring anyone opposed to 4e into the fold.


James Martin wrote:


Too bad they spent time making this instead of, you know, making the Online Tools work.

'Cause, you know, there is just the one guy over at WoTC.


Scott Betts wrote:
By the way, how come no one is pointing out that the video is also portraying 4th Edition fanboys as sycophants and boot-lickers? Looking for something to be offended over, huh?

Because those of us that like 4E *are* sycophants and boot lickers, of course! We're just getting what we deserve for standing by idly as WoTC crushed the childhoods of 8 billion D&D lovers for fun and profit.


I really can't beleive that this is going a big deal. It's just a cartoon, and not a very funny one at that.

Seriously, if you want to get right into it, I think WoTC pokes fun at themselves as well (The Dragon, whose over-riding concern is increasing its hoard of gold).

Sovereign Court Contributor

As someone playing 3.5, Pathfinder, and 4E, I'm offended by the treatment of MTV DJ's.


bugleyman wrote:
Scott Betts wrote:
By the way, how come no one is pointing out that the video is also portraying 4th Edition fanboys as sycophants and boot-lickers? Looking for something to be offended over, huh?
Because those of us that like 4E *are* sycophants and boot lickers, of course! We're just getting what we deserve for standing by idly as WoTC crushed the childhoods of 8 billion D&D lovers for fun and profit.

No one on this thread is insulting those who like 4e. Good for you, you're getting what you want. I celebrate your happiness even though I don't share it, and I don't make cartoons in which you are a troll (how obvious) buried in draconic excrement. But this interpretation of the kobolds is highly strained and unlikely. (Kobolds as dragon groupies? Natural. A [literal] troll posting or blogging? Unnatural.) As a wise man once said, this ain't James Joyce.

I don't see this so much as an instance in which people need to experience outrage and encourage others to be offended. I think it is more of an occasion for moral reflection.


Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
bugleyman wrote:
Scott Betts wrote:
By the way, how come no one is pointing out that the video is also portraying 4th Edition fanboys as sycophants and boot-lickers? Looking for something to be offended over, huh?
Because those of us that like 4E *are* sycophants and boot lickers, of course! We're just getting what we deserve for standing by idly as WoTC crushed the childhoods of 8 billion D&D lovers for fun and profit.

No one on this thread is insulting those who like 4e. Good for you, you're getting what you want. I celebrate your happiness even though I don't share it, and I don't make cartoons in which you are a troll (how obvious) buried in draconic excrement. But this interpretation of the kobolds is highly strained and unlikely. (Kobolds as dragon groupies? Natural. A [literal] troll posting or blogging? Unnatural.) As a wise man once said, this ain't James Joyce.

I don't see this so much as an instance in which people need to experience outrage and encourage others to be offended. I think it is more of an occasion for moral reflection.

I was poking fun at how people looking to be insulted read *way* too much into this little throwaway videos, irrespective of which "side" they are on.

As for this being "an occasion for moral reflection," I guess we'll just have to disagree.


Craig Shackleton wrote:
As someone playing 3.5, Pathfinder, and 4E, I'm offended by the treatment of MTV DJ's.

I'm offended you referred to them as DJ's. ;)

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Whimsy Chris wrote:
Craig Shackleton wrote:
As someone playing 3.5, Pathfinder, and 4E, I'm offended by the treatment of MTV DJ's.
I'm offended you referred to them as DJ's. ;)

MTV DJs, like ROUS's, do not exist.


I thought they didn't play videos on MTV anymore (it's been about 10 years since I've watched MTV).

If they don't, then why do they need DJs? (I also thought they liked to be called VJs.)


I'm afraid I did find some of it funny, however I would have also liked them to stop messing around and start remembering they're supposed to be promoting 4e not messing around creating little cartoons on irrelevant parts of their flagship product (well I am assuming that is what its supposed to be)

PS: If they can do this why not do a series of cartoons showing 4e being played both at a table and as an animated clip showing the situation being run as an example you know something to promote 4e not make people think even worse of them... mind you I did like the way they treated the kobolds kind of reminded me of Pathfinder goblins except the goblins beat them hands down (well that and whatever other implement they can scavenge, now that would explain why the dragon has kobolds from what I've heard those goblins will attack almost anything let alone if they're in someone else's home and there's a fire available...)


hopeless wrote:

I'm afraid I did find some of it funny, however I would have also liked them to stop messing around and start remembering they're supposed to be promoting 4e not messing around creating little cartoons on irrelevant parts of their flagship product (well I am assuming that is what its supposed to be)

PS: If they can do this why not do a series of cartoons showing 4e being played both at a table and as an animated clip showing the situation being run as an example you know something to promote 4e not make people think even worse of them...

Have you listened to the Penny Arcade/PvP podcasts? That's pretty much exactly what you described, in audio form.

Liberty's Edge

bugleyman wrote:
'Cause, you know, there is just the one guy over at WoTC.

Well, ya know . . .

maybe it is only one person.

Let me see . . .

Associate Visual Designer 8/20/2008 3 weeks ago
Architect - Web Applications 8/20/2008 3 weeks ago
Software Architect - D&D 8/27/2008 2 weeks ago
Database Developer 8/28/2008 2 weeks ago
Sr. Visual Designer 9/2/2008 1 week ago
Web Developer - .NET 9/5/2008 5 days ago
Sr. Technical Producer 9/9/2008 yesterday
Web UI Designer 3288 9/10/2008 today


common it was funny.

Internet Troll being a real troll, XPsXPsXPs, YumYumYummy, Here Hold onto this stick, Poop Jokes, Halfling Orphanage. Lots of funny in there.

Boy I thought they were exagerating over at rpg.net when they said you guys were taking this badly, but i guess they weren't.

Sovereign Court

No. No, it was not funny. I mean, to each his own, but if you thought that was funny...I didn't find it insulting, but it certainly was idiotic.

Liberty's Edge

It is not a question of it being funny or not.
It is a question of a marketing piece so overtly mocking its customers, be they critics or supporters.
It is not even good-natured humor.

My schadenfreude gizzard is getting seriously bloated.

Sovereign Court

True, it serves no purpose whatsoever.

Liberty's Edge

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

It's funny that somebody wrote that and thought they were being funny.
Poop on my head.....I think I peed myself.
Poop...


Common? Sadly, perhaps yes. Funny? Well, there are all kinds of people in the world who find all kinds of things funny. And this goes back to my "moral reflection" comment. And while the honorable illithid member correctly refers us to schadenfreude, in this case it is interesting to ask why it is there: The need to comfort oneself in the face of criticism? Is it to rally the like-minded against criticism that one has already decided to ignore? Is it because of a lingering insecurity caused by loss of approval? And why the need to migrate over from some other community to peep in over here, when one knows that people over here are either happy with both editions, or unhappy with 4e? And when one takes into consideration the size differential, and the relative hospitality of the Paizo boards (any boards out there that say "Talk about Pathfinder RPG here. Politely."?)then it starts to take on a rather clear character.

EDIT: I may have misinterpreted S.W.'s schadenfreude, which I took to refer to those who delighted in the cartoon, rather than those who delighted in the patheticness of the cartoon. If he meant the latter, I wish him well with his gizzard. My business is with the former: those who delighted in the cartoon itself, and more specifically, thought they should tell people who saw themselves as the target of its "humor" that they were wrong on this count, as on all others.

Liberty's Edge

It was so weak I can't even be insulted by it. I'd feel bad about it and embarrassed for them enough to not say anything, but they dropped poopoo on my head; ergo the kid gloves are off.


TigerDave wrote:
Lazaro wrote:
Latest 4th Edition cartoon
Nice. Well, they DID say they didn't need anyone who didn't "toe the party line" ...

Got a link to that quote? Cite your source?


Heathansson wrote:
It was so weak I can't even be insulted by it. I'd feel bad about it and embarrassed for them enough to not say anything, but they dropped poopoo on my head; ergo the kid gloves are off.

Shouldn't a wolf wear lambskin gloves, rather than goat? ; )


I woke up this morning, watched the video, and went on my merry way. I chueckled at the kobolds, but wasn't affected by it other than that. I definitely find more offensive content on the tv and I still watch that.


So dragons in 4E are going to have a special 'poop' attack then? :-?

Liberty's Edge

Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
Heathansson wrote:
It was so weak I can't even be insulted by it. I'd feel bad about it and embarrassed for them enough to not say anything, but they dropped poopoo on my head; ergo the kid gloves are off.
Shouldn't a wolf wear lambskin gloves, rather than goat? ; )

I tried for nine minutes, and I got nothing. Well lambskin....I had something, but it wouldn't play too good here, family site and all. So....did I just throw some random garbage out there? No. I got nothing, I got nothing.

If you got nothing, you won't be able pull the wool over nobody's eyes, so don't try it.

Liberty's Edge

Charles Evans 25 wrote:
So dragons in 4E are going to have a special 'poop' attack then? :-?

I thought the dragon dropped his PHB.


Heathansson wrote:
Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
Heathansson wrote:

I tried for nine minutes, and I got nothing. Well lambskin....I had something, but it wouldn't play too good here, family site and all. So....did I just throw some random garbage out there? No. I got nothing, I got nothing.

If you got nothing, you won't be able pull the wool over nobody's eyes, so don't try it.

You're the better wolf for it...and as long as I got my "in-sheep's-clothing" groan out there, then its all good...and you doubling it made it even better.

Liberty's Edge

I got this visual of Wily Coyote (i.e. yours teeroolee) trying to sneak off dressed like a sheep and Seb shows up in a cheap arsed sheep dog stume to fist me by the neck and pull me through there by the ears.

Liberty's Edge

If the troll had a little teeny umbrella when the copious stool sample fell on him.....hey, I'm just trying to help here. I got scant if nuttin to work wit.


Heathansson wrote:
I got this visual of Wily Coyote (i.e. yours teeroolee) trying to sneak off dressed like a sheep and Seb shows up in a cheap arsed sheep dog stume to fist me by the neck and pull me through there by the ears.

"Mornin Ralph..."

"Mornin Sam"

Liberty's Edge

Then in the next frame he's all better.

He's sneakin off to go build somethin that is bound to work this time.


Hopefully something fueled by dragon poop.


(edited)
Seriously though, the earlier cartoons (such as the gnome one) did have a point, in that they were trying to foreshadow (or outright spoil) forthcoming changes in a humorous way; as for this current one, I'd be interested to discover if any Hasbro shareholders out there consider this latest cartoon was money well invested?
Are there any such investors out there reading this thread who would like to say if they're happy with that cartoon?

Liberty's Edge

Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
EDIT: I may have misinterpreted S.W.'s schadenfreude, which I took to refer to those who delighted in the cartoon, rather than those who delighted in the patheticness of the cartoon. If he meant the latter, I wish him well with his gizzard. My business is with the former: those who delighted in the cartoon itself, and more specifically, thought they should tell people who saw themselves as the target of its "humor" that they were wrong on this count, as on all others.

I meant I am taking perverse delight in watching WotC do its level best to utterly destroy itself with the DDI, through the endless delays, PR debacles such as the AP overview and virtual minis, and miscellaneous issues like this video.

It is schadenfreude and not just vindictiveness as I have come to terms with no longer being their customer, and simply bear them no ill-will. There are nice people working for WotC who really do not deserve the hit to their careers they are going to be taking over this.
Basically, Heathenson sums it up with this:

Heathansson wrote:
It was so weak I can't even be insulted by it. I'd feel bad about it and embarrassed for them enough to not say anything, but they dropped poopoo on my head; ergo the kid gloves are off.

Had they been more civil in the past, I could just feel bad or embarassed for them. Since they cannot, I will wallow, and get some pills for my abused gizzard.

I would much prefer they not go out this way, but that is not my decision to make.

Liberty's Edge

Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
Hopefully something fueled by dragon poop.

An ACME DDI. So,......yeah.


@ Samuel Weiss:
10-4. That's what I thought might be your intent after I had already posted, but I wanted to keep my point without tossing confusion your way. Whether Hasbro succeeds or not, the lack of grace is repulsive. As for me and my house, the only money they will get from me in the future is for minis, all the rest will go here--for the very reasons you allude to. (Not like that is going to sink or float anybody, but one is pleased to use what one has.)

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

Once again, in response to WotC's marketing, I find myself saying: "I am neither amused nor offended." It really is overwhelmingly blah.


Heathansson wrote:
Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
Hopefully something fueled by dragon poop.
An ACME DDI. So,......yeah.

Oh...you're tempting me terribly. But I shan't.

Liberty's Edge

ACME DDI blows up in my face.

Next scene--all better. Off to work on a surefire plan for success called---the ACME GSL.

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