Hmm. I'm finding multiple problems with the Eagle Knights entry. I'll start off with one which might not be an error, in case an official explanation does exist:
P. 190
Structure and Activities (Eagle Knights of Andoran) wrote:
...The column itself is ancient, and prior to its restoration 150 years ago, it was part of a sprawling, cyclopean ruin discovered and explored by Eagle Knights who carried the column back, piecemeal, as a spoil of conquest to the greater glory of Andoran...
P. 202
The World: Timeline wrote:
...4081 Chelish King Aspex the Even-Tongued breaks from Taldor, claiming Andoran and the winged folk of the Devil's Perch by diplomacy...
P. 203
The World: Timeline wrote:
...4669 The People's Revolt transforms Andoran...
...4708 The current year.
So the situation, if I understand correctly, is that the column which is currently the home of the Eagle Knights was erected 'as a spoil of conquest to the greater glory of Andoran' in approximately 4558, despite the fact that this was well over five centuries after Andoran had been subsumed into the Chelish empire, and more than a hundred years before Andoran revolts against Chelish rule and becomes independent?
Is there an official explanation for this, or is there an error in the dating and/or other details here?
Although the column is a spoil of conquest... that doesn't necessarily refer to a conquest of Andoran. The column was part of a larger ruin that the Eagle Knights explored over 150 years ago, and after they conquered the evils that dwelt int hat ruin, they brought the column back to Andoran as the mentioned "spoil of conquest." This event is not particularly linked to Andoran's foundation or the People's Revolt.
Brinestump clover patches grow throughout Brinestump Marsh, in the eastern wilderness of the River Kingdom.
So there's a second Brinestump Marsh in the River Kingdoms, in addition to the one near Sandpoint in Varisia (p. 22 of The Skinsaw Murders)? Or is the location a typo and it's referring to the latter?
Closer investigation reveals that the ONLY place that a "Brinestump Marsh" being located in the eastern River Kingdoms is EVER mentioned is in the first sentence of the Brinestump Clover entry. Which pretty much seals the fate; the entry on page 216 is in error and should be talking about Brinestump Marsh in Varisia.
Brinestump Marsh is not mentioned at all in the River Kingdoms entry in the hardcover, nor is it mentioned at all in the upcoming "Guide to the River Kingdoms." That's because Brinestump Marsh is on the western coast of Varisia. And a relatively small marsh at that, which makes the inclusion of a Brinestump Clover among all of the other flora on pages 216–217 kind of strange... especially since to my knowledge no other mention of Brinestump Clover appears in any other Varisia-related material.
My guess as to how this occured: In those earlier days, Varisia had a HUGE footprint on the public perception as to what Golarion was. While Varisia's a relatively small part of the Inner Sea Region, for the first year or so, it was the most heavily detailed part of the world and for a lot of people, Varisia seemed to BE the entire campaign setting. While we've since gone on to detail other areas, Varisia remains one of the most heavily explored areas due to the fact that we set the first three Adventure Paths there. Anyway, as a result, there's a weird skew toward Varisian content in several parts of the Campaign Setting Hardcover, and focusing two paragraphs on a supposedly unique form of plant life that grows in a single very small marsh seems odd... especially if these plants were so well-known that they DESERVE to be called out in the hardcover as one of a dozen types of plants, then why weren't they ever mentioned in any of the more extensive discussions of Varisia? Why isn't Brinestump Clover harvesting a huge business in Sandpoint and Magnimar? Causes a fair amount of trouble, alas, and I suspect that we'll just end up cutting the Brinestump Clover entry entirely from the reprinted book and let it fade away into obscurity. We'll see.
Assuming that the new 'Death Curse' feature (which I love) of linnorms from the PFRPG bestiary carries over into Golarion, this would seem to me to have some interesting implications for rulers in the Land of The Linnorm Kings, where (amongst other things) a pre-requisite for rulership is that they must carry the head of a linnorm through the city gates.
Part of killing a linnorm involves dealing with its death curse. The Linnorm Kings are tough guys and gals, though, and have entire kingdoms of resources at their beck and call. Even if they kill a linnorm and then fail the save to resist the curse, it won't be long before they hire or order someone who works for them to use a spell to remove the curse.
As a result, I suspect that those linnorm kings who last for any amount of time don't have to endure their curse that long at all. Certainly not long enough that it'd need to be really mentioned at all in the Hardcover book. Might be worth talking about if and when we do a Linnorm Kings book or something though...
1) When the areas of interest of two or more Hellknight orders overlap, who has seniority for Hellknight operations? For example when a brigand gang is using dangerous knowledge to assist their criminal actions, does the Order of the Rack or the Order of the Nail have seniority if both are after the same brigands?
Check Pathfinder #27 and #28 for more information about the Hellknights and what happens when their orders and jurisdictions overlap. Short version: it often causes conflicts.
Charles Evans 25 wrote:
2) Given the existence of the Order of the Rack, what is the Hellknight stance with regard to gunpowder weapons? Are these viewed as the fruits of dangerous knowledge?
Since we'll be likely to be downplaying the presence of firearms in Golarion, this is not a topic I'm interested in exploring further. If we did... we'd have to explore the impact of firearms on EVERYTHING, not just Hellknights, and that's a can of worms that the intended flavor of Golarion isn't about.
James Jacobs:
A sort of present for you...;) ; I've skimmed the first chapter or so and made a note of anything which looks as if it might obviously need updating for a PFRPG associated Campaign Setting and made it into a sort of checklist for your files:
Spoiler:
P. 5
Golarion Characters
Don’t forget to update the information here on what the book contains. Especially since it specifically states that the book contains 5 prestige classes, which seems to me to be the likeliest thing to change.
Races
Swap PH book reference for PFRPG core book.
Feats
Mentions NPCs in Rogue’s Gallery. Update this as appropriate (for example if Rogue’s Gallery is removed).
Domains and Spells
Remove PH book reference, and possibly completely revise the remainder of this paragraph so it makes sense with what material ends up being in the revised Chapter 3.
Prestige Classes
Update as necessary.
P. 19
The Legacy of Old Azlant
Make sure that these Swim related details still function as you would like them to do under PFRPG rules.
P. 35
Ulfen Singing
References to both ‘Concentration check’ and to ‘Listen check’ in need of update, as Concentration is no longer a skill, and Listen is no rolled into Perception.
P. 42
Specialized Training (Ex):
Does this replace not just Bardic Knowledge, but the Loremaster feature of PFRPG bards which it would seem to me logically develops from the Bardic Knowledge?
P. 43
Holy Warrior (Ex):
Clerics are already proficient in their deity’s favoured weapon under PFRPG rules. This aspect of Holy Warrior is redundant.
P. 45
Class Skills:
Gather Information has been folded into Diplomacy. Fighters in PFRPG already have Knowledge (engineering). Knowledge (nobility & royalty) is now Knowledge (nobility). My personal suggestion is to give famous war college Fighters another Knowledge skill or maybe Bluff in lieu of the otherwise duplicated Knowledge (engineering) class skill.
P. 46
Bonus Feats:
Monks now have more Bonus feats available at more levels.
P. 47
Light of Purity (Su): / Class Abilities:
Paladins no longer receive remove disease at 6th level, but gain mercies instead.
P. 48
Enhanced Companion (Ex):
Rangers now have the Hunter’s Bond ability which in animal companion mode is less far behind the druid’s companion than the 3.5 animal companion.
P. 50
Class abilities:
Sorcerers no longer receive the summon familiar ability, or even arcane bond, unless Arcane bloodline sorcerers.
Does the format that I present the information in, and the style of brief comment which I make, make sense, to you? Is this useful, and would if be helpful for me to break from my more regular errata/queries to skim the remaining chapters in this sort of fashion?
Although the column is a spoil of conquest... that doesn't necessarily refer to a conquest of Andoran. The column was part of a larger ruin that the Eagle Knights explored over 150 years ago, and after they conquered the evils that dwelt in that ruin, they brought the column back to Andoran as the mentioned "spoil of conquest." This event is not particularly linked to Andoran's foundation or the People's Revolt.
So the Eagles Knights existed as an organisation before Andoran was an independent state, presumably serving the Chelish Emperor (or even the Taldan Emperor if they date back far enough), or possibly the local provincial governor?
(I assume here that they have remained a Lawful organisation throughout their history, serving the state; I may be in error on this count?)
...There are doubtlessly numerous evil members - particularly among the upper echelons of power - but...
Quibble:
This segment reads clumsily, particularly the 'doubtlessly'. Would it be possible to revise it to something such as: '...There are without doubt numerous evil members - particularly within the upper echelons of power - but... ' ?
P. 193
The Order of the Rack wrote:
...The order takes an example of dangerous learning as its symbol, and often uses the rack to prove the danger of misguided invention...
Minor Quibble:
I'm okay with the rack as an example of misguided invention but is it actually a symbol of dangerous learning too?
NB
Does this section indicate that Order of the Rack Hellknights may actually have a sense of (ironic) humour??? ;)
Okay, that seems to be it for Hellknights for now...
...and every year, during the entire month of Sarenith, the Great Andoran Fair attracts merchants from across Golarion. During the 27 days of the fair...
I have looked at the Time and Space entry on pages 238-239 of the Campaign Setting, and as far as I can make out, Sarenith=June, which as far as I know has 30 days; The quote above seems to me to say that the Great Andoran Fair lasts 'the entire month of Sarenith', from which it seems to me that it should therefore follow that the latter part of the quote ought to read '...During the 30 days of the fair...'
Will the Errata be collated and published at a later date? Digitally? Physically? PCCS 2nd Edition?
Just curious; and apologies if this has already been asked and answered.
The most recent thoughts from James Jacobs that I've seen on this subject were in the first couple of dozen posts on *this thread* up on the general discussion forum.
Will the Errata be collated and published at a later date? Digitally? Physically? PCCS 2nd Edition?
Just curious; and apologies if this has already been asked and answered.
Yeah... I'm hoping that we'll do an expanded book that'll basically be a 2nd edition print version. It'll have its own PDF. It'll PROBABLY have a lot of different art too... and a different layout... it'll very likely be an entire new book with a lot of familiar content but a fair amount of new content.
The scary part is, of course... will our customers mind? Will they get angry at us for trying to "trick" them into buying essentially a lot of the same content a 3rd time?
I don't think of it as trickery, obviously, and maintaining full transparency on the project once it gets going will hopefully prevent that perception from spreading.
Will the Errata be collated and published at a later date? Digitally? Physically? PCCS 2nd Edition?
Just curious; and apologies if this has already been asked and answered.
Yeah... I'm hoping that we'll do an expanded book that'll basically be a 2nd edition print version. It'll have its own PDF. It'll PROBABLY have a lot of different art too... and a different layout... it'll very likely be an entire new book with a lot of familiar content but a fair amount of new content.
The scary part is, of course... will our customers mind? Will they get angry at us for trying to "trick" them into buying essentially a lot of the same content a 3rd time?
I don't think of it as trickery, obviously, and maintaining full transparency on the project once it gets going will hopefully prevent that perception from spreading.
I'll have no problem buying a 2nd edition or future revised edition of the book. As a customer and fan, I'd be pretty disappointed if you guys didn't publish periodic revisions or updated versions.
Brinestump clover patches grow throughout Brinestump Marsh, in the eastern wilderness of the River Kingdom.
So there's a second Brinestump Marsh in the River Kingdoms, in addition to the one near Sandpoint in Varisia (p. 22 of The Skinsaw Murders)? Or is the location a typo and it's referring to the latter?
Closer investigation reveals that the ONLY place that a "Brinestump Marsh" being located in the eastern River Kingdoms is EVER mentioned is in the first sentence of the Brinestump Clover entry. Which pretty much seals the fate; the entry on page 216 is in error and should be talking about Brinestump Marsh in Varisia.
Brinestump Marsh is not mentioned at all in the River Kingdoms entry in the hardcover, nor is it mentioned at all in the upcoming "Guide to the River Kingdoms." That's because Brinestump Marsh is on the western coast of Varisia. And a relatively small marsh at that, which makes the inclusion of a Brinestump Clover among all of the other flora on pages 216–217 kind of strange... especially since to my knowledge no other mention of Brinestump Clover appears in any other Varisia-related material.
My guess as to how this occured: In those earlier days, Varisia had a HUGE footprint on the public perception as to what Golarion was. While Varisia's a relatively small part of the Inner Sea Region, for the first year or so, it was the most heavily detailed part of the world and for a lot of people, Varisia seemed to BE the entire campaign setting. While we've since gone on to detail other areas, Varisia remains one of the most heavily explored areas due to the fact that we set the first three Adventure Paths there. Anyway, as a result, there's a weird skew toward Varisian content in several parts of the Campaign Setting Hardcover, and focusing two paragraphs on a supposedly unique form of plant life that grows in a single very small marsh seems odd... especially if these plants were so well-known that they DESERVE to be called out in the hardcover as one of a dozen types of plants, then why weren't they ever mentioned in any of the more extensive discussions of Varisia? Why isn't Brinestump Clover harvesting a huge business in Sandpoint and Magnimar? Causes a fair amount of trouble, alas, and I suspect that we'll just end up cutting the Brinestump Clover entry entirely from the reprinted book and let it fade away into obscurity. We'll see.
Hmm. I think I may have a solution which might save things. If you check your notes again you might find that the goblin shaman using comprehend languages on dictation duty on the Flora section that day (by a truly remarkable coincidence :D) mistook brinestump near Sandpoint for brightstump in the River Kingdoms; the River Kingdoms location is of course best known for the luminous fungi which grow on the stumps of dead trees in that dismal foetid marsh, although here and there the brightstump clover grows as well. (Taldan sages have been heard to speculate on occasions upon the possible symbiotic relationship which the clover has with the weird glowing fungus?)
Nah... I'm not a fan of explaining errors in our books by saying that something in-game caused the error... especially when there's no logical reason why an in-game explanation would make much sense (there's not a lot of goblins in the River Kingdoms, for one thing). And since we've not mentioned a "brightstump" swamp in the River Kingdoms at all anyway, and since goblins are afraid of writing and the chances of a goblin ever preparing comprehend languages as a result are minimal... well, it's easy to see how an "in game" explanation can quickly fall apart.
The simplest solution is to change the entry in the reprint to mention Varisia instead of the River Kingdoms. In the grand scheme of things, that's a VERY easy and minor change that won't impact the text flow at all... although chances are also looking very good that the entire book's gonna get a new layout anyway...
Umm, everything up to the semicolon was pure speculation on my part about the goblins working at Paizo, whose existence Crystal Frasier keeps posting proof of in her pictures which accompany her blogs... ;)
Ooooh. The information that the whole book will get a new layout is intriguing though...
Will the Errata be collated and published at a later date? Digitally? Physically? PCCS 2nd Edition?
Just curious; and apologies if this has already been asked and answered.
Yeah... I'm hoping that we'll do an expanded book that'll basically be a 2nd edition print version. It'll have its own PDF. It'll PROBABLY have a lot of different art too... and a different layout... it'll very likely be an entire new book with a lot of familiar content but a fair amount of new content.
The scary part is, of course... will our customers mind? Will they get angry at us for trying to "trick" them into buying essentially a lot of the same content a 3rd time?
I don't think of it as trickery, obviously, and maintaining full transparency on the project once it gets going will hopefully prevent that perception from spreading.
Tell you what, move the Arcane Duellist option from the Campaign Setting into the Advanced Players Guide as a generalist Wizard ability and I'll buy the revised Campaign Setting.
The shape changing abilities of the Bronze, Gold, and Silver dragons have changed under PFRPG, and some mechanism is need to explain how some of them can live in human cities unnoticed for years given the much shorter duration of the ability now. (If it is a mechanism which could apply to other dragon types, then given the appearance of Kazavon in the history of the setting that might be useful too.) Okay, thanks... :)
Darn, I thought I was done with those pesky Hellknights, but they just won't go away...
As a recommendation for an expanded Hellknight entry (if such a thing occurs) I would recommend putting in a sentence or two on the culling of Hellknight orders of 4639 AR (and maybe the addition of this event to the main timeline if it was significant enough on a national scale). This event offers a rich seam of inspiration to GMs, ranging from the possibilities of still-living 'hold-outs' of disbanded orders to the opportunities afforded by the ruins of any orders put down by force (and which are now prime dungeon-crawl sites).
Now, trying once more to move on:
P. 194
Pathfinder Society wrote:
...Others are in it for the money, filtering priceless antiquities through a series of unscrupulous merchants to enrich themselves beyond measure...
As a suggestion (if I understand correctly that the intention here is to indicate shady or outright illicit activities) wouldn't 'fencing' be a better word than 'filtering'?
Question:
What exactly is meant to be understood from the 'Scope' of an organization? I have some doubts over this, as the Pathfinder Society is attributed (on Page 194) as having 'Global' scope, and whilst I suppose that there is a very small theoretical possibility that you might conceivably bump into an individual member of the Society almost anywhere, it seems to me* that most of the Society's operations, holdings, and influence is concentrated around the Inner Sea region, and could best be summarised as 'Regional'.
* From what I have seen in the Campaign Setting and Pathfinder issues upto #27.
What exactly is meant to be understood from the 'Scope' of an organization? I have some doubts over this, as the Pathfinder Society is attributed (on Page 194) as having 'Global' scope, and whilst I suppose that there is a very small theoretical possibility that you might conceivably bump into an individual member of the Society almost anywhere, it seems to me* that most of the Society's operations, holdings, and influence is concentrated around the Inner Sea region, and could best be summarised as 'Regional'.
* From what I have seen in the Campaign Setting and Pathfinder issues upto #27.
Scope is, hopefully, a self-defining quality. Pathfinders being "global" does indeed mean that you can find pathfinders and pathfinder lodges across Golarion. They're based in the Inner Sea region, but the nature of their organization means they're all over the world. They DO have significant presences in most other continents. Mostly because they're one of the major, if not THE major theme of Golarion and the game we're making. Doesn't make sense to bar them from locations we're very likely to expand upon and explore some day!
Are the Pathfinder Society obliged to operate in secret away from Avistan & Garund? Given real-world suspicions and paranoia about foreign organisations setting up headquarters/bases in unfriendly or even neutral nations, I'd be surprised if the ruler of any one of the dozens of Tien nations, for example, afforded the Pathfinder Society much official recognition or protection - especially given that Pathfinders may have earned reputations as tomb-robbing foreigner devils stealing treasures which, rightly, should be considered to belong to those Tien rulers if anyone.
(I imagine that covertly some such rulers may allow Pathfinder to operate in secret, on condition that they report intelligence on rivals to them...)
Are the Pathfinder Society obliged to operate in secret away from Avistan & Garund? Given real-world suspicions and paranoia about foreign organisations setting up headquarters/bases in unfriendly or even neutral nations, I'd be surprised if the ruler of any one of the dozens of Tien nations, for example, afforded the Pathfinder Society much official recognition or protection - especially given that Pathfinders may have earned reputations as tomb-robbing foreigner devils stealing treasures which, rightly, should be considered to belong to those Tien rulers if anyone.
(I imagine that covertly some such rulers may allow Pathfinder to operate in secret, on condition that they report intelligence on rivals to them...)
Since we've not done any significant thought or development on Golarion beyond the Inner Sea region yet (we're only now starting to actually do products that physically touch areas off the map, after all), we haven't done much thinking on how the pathfinders function in other parts of the world. But I strongly suspect they'll fill the same niche and role and have about the same amount of presence ANYWHERE in Golarion, because that's a GREAT way to make our version of fantasy Asia or fantasy Australia or fantasy India or whatever ALSO feel like it's part of Golarion.
Whilst some real world explorers such as Marco Polo were well received at the courts of the asian potentates, Marco Polo was a bona fide merchant if I recall correctly, and not in the habit of looting ancient ruins (or he kept quiet about it in his journals if he did indulge in the latter activity... :D). It seems reasonable to me that individual Pathfinders might show up anywhere (explorers/scouts from the British Empire seemed to turn up all over the place in the 19th century after all), but I do have some doubts that they would be guaranteed a friendly welcome and allowed to openly build/run lodges everywhere - there are places in territories that rightly could be considered the Pathfinder Society's own back yard where they haven't been officially particularly welcome in recent years (Westcrown in Cheliax for example).
Unless the Pathfinder Society has a secret network of succubi hostesses, uh, 'working away' to guarantee rulers remain friendly perhaps... ;)
Whilst some real world explorers such as Marco Polo were well received at the courts of the asian potentates, Marco Polo was a bona fide merchant if I recall correctly, and not in the habit of looting ancient ruins (or he kept quiet about it in his journals if he did indulge in the latter activity... :D). It seems reasonable to me that individual Pathfinders might show up anywhere (explorers/scouts from the British Empire seemed to turn up all over the place in the 19th century after all), but I do have some doubts that they would be guaranteed a friendly welcome and allowed to openly build/run lodges everywhere - there are places in territories that rightly could be considered the Pathfinder Society's own back yard where they haven't been officially particularly welcome in recent years (Westcrown in Cheliax for example).
Unless the Pathfinder Society has a secret network of succubi hostesses, uh, 'working away' to guarantee rulers remain friendly perhaps... ;)
Again, and I can't say this enough... it's VERY important to remember that comparisons between Golarion (or ANY fantasy world) and real-world historical eras like the medieval era are fundamentally flawed. Golarion is NOT an attempt to model a medieval era world. For one thing, the world of Golarion has been civilized a LOT longer than Earth (we've had "civilization" for about 8,000 years, whereas Golarion's had it for at least twice as long), but ALSO the presence of magic that works and faith that has real gods to back it up changes EVERYTHING.
As a result, and as far as international relations go, it's a lot more accurate to think of Golarion as analagous to the modern world rather than the ancient world. The various nations of Golarion on ALL of its continents are pretty well-informed about each other, and while racism and xenophobia still do exist, they're not so overwhelming as to prevent an organization like the Pathfinders from openly functioning on every continent.
And again: The pathfinders are a core "theme" of Golarion. Our RULES are named after them. Every book line we do is named after them. We're not gonna try to turn them into a hidden, secret society, since that prevents us from using them in the way we want to use them: as a central theme for everything we do.
There are PLENTY of other organizations in the Inner Sea that can serve the role of an invading secret society in other continents. The Red Mantis and the Aspis Consortium both come to mind.
China has had several thousand years of real-world civilization. Do you think an organization such as the Pathfinders (unless it was Chinese in origin) would be welcome to openly operate in modern day China?
Okay, I don't want to get too political, and I hope I've at least given you something to consider about the way that human nature and societies sometimes operate.
Thanks for the continued interest in my posts here... :)
China has had several thousand years of real-world civilization. Do you think an organization such as the Pathfinders (unless it was Chinese in origin) would be welcome to openly operate in modern day China?
Okay, I don't want to get too political, and I hope I've at least given you something to consider about the way that human nature and societies sometimes operate.
Thanks for the continued interest in my posts here... :)
Until we actually have a Tian Xia book out, this whole conversation's kinda pointless, honestly. But rest assured that we'll be doing our best to make things feel logical and fun and interesting. There probably IS parts of the world beyond the Inner Sea where the pathfinders aren't really welcome, and where they have to watch their step or even operate in hiding. We already have locations like that in the Inner Sea region, in fact (Cheliax is sort of like that, for example).
But this discussion really isn't that pertinent to this thread; it's just cluttering things up. So until we actually have a book or something to talk about, I don't have much more to say on the topic, alas. I simply don't know enough about what we're doing in the other areas of the world, or simply ain't ready to reveal what I do know about those areas yet.
I shall surface for a quick post here after what feels much longer than three mere days submerged in the Superstar forum.... P. 194
Pathfinder Society wrote:
...These volumes also tell the stories of people, of individuals who experienced some of the very best and very worst Golarion has to offer.
Minor Quibble:
Should that comma after 'people' be a dash or some other form of punctuation instead? It seems to me it would read better if it did...
Okay, have a good weekend.... :)
In the early days of recorded history, Aroden walked Golarion among his people. When Azlant sunk beneath the sea, a victim of its own pride and arrogance, Aroden ventured to Avistan. There he raised the Starstone from the depths of the Inner Sea, helped to found both Taldor and Absalom, and protected his people from the depredations of horrific villains such as the wizard-king Tar-Baphon and the nigh-unstoppable Spawn of Rovagug.
This seems to have been written before the timeline was fully established. It makes it sounds as if Aroden took a boat after the collapse of Azlant and raised the Starstone, two events now known to have been separated by over 5000 years of history :)
It's a 3.5 thing. But, very easily adapted to Pathfinder - just consider it 4 + Int skill points / level. :)
Thanks, but I need a source too :)
I imagine that the 3.5 to PFRPG general conversion guide could be considered to cover this particular instance. (Spoilered due to lengthy quote)
Spoiler:
Conversion Guide, Page 8 wrote:
Step 3: Skills
The skill system has received a significant overhaul
for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. While the new
system is simpler to use, you will need to reassign your
character’s skill ranks during conversion.
The biggest change is the elimination and combination
of a number of skills. For example, Hide and Move
Silently have been combined into one skill called
Stealth. Table C–2 summarizes the changes to skills.
Skills marked with a “—” have been removed from the
game. Concentration is no longer a skill, but rather an
ability that all spellcasters have. See page 206 for more
information and rules on calculating your bonus on this
check. Use Rope is now a part of Climb or a function of
the grapple rules, depending on the use.
In addition, the means by which characters acquire
skill ranks has been altered. Characters no longer
receive a ×4 multiplier to their skill points at 1st level.
In addition, purchasing a rank in any skill costs only
1 point, regardless of whether it is a class skill. In the
Pathfinder RPG, characters that have ranks in a class
skill receive a one-time +3 bonus to that skill. Finally,
permanent alterations to your character’s Intelligence
score now affect his number of skill points. Table 4–1 (on
page 87) summarizes the number of skill ranks granted
by each class per level.
Taken together, this means that a character can simply
determine the number of skill points gained per level and
multiply that number by his total number of levels in that
class. This is the number of ranks he can place into his
skills (with a maximum of his total character level). After
placing the skills, he receives a +3 bonus in any skill that
is listed as a class skill by one of the classes he possesses.
To convert your character, look up the number of ranks
he receives for each level of his class. Modify this value by
the character’s Intelligence modifier. If your character is a
human, add 1 to this number. Next, multiply this value by
the character’s total levels in that class. Repeat this process
for any other classes your character might possess. Add
these values together. This is the total number of ranks
you can spend on skills. You can have no more than your
total character level in ranks in any one skill. Make sure to
note any skill bonuses due to race or class abilities (such as
bardic knowledge, trapfinding, or track). Next, add in class
skill and ability score bonuses and total these values to get
your final bonus in each skill.
For example, if your character was a human barbarian
4/rogue 3 with a 12 Intelligence, he would receive 6 ranks
for each level of barbarian (4 base + 1 human + 1 Int) and
10 ranks for each level of rogue (8 base + 1 human + 1 Int),
for a total of 62 ranks. He could place up to 7 ranks in any
one skill until reaching a total of 62. He would receive a
+3 class skill bonus in any skill that is listed on either the
barbarian or rogue class skill list (this bonus remains +3
even if it is on both lists).
So somewhere in that it says that the 'x4' multiplier to skill points at first level is gone.
(The conversion guide should still be available as a free pdf somewhere on the PFRPG page of the store, and it might be possible to extrapolate a number of other changes from that.)
I imagine that the 3.5 to PFRPG general conversion guide could be considered to cover this particular instance. (Spoilered due to lengthy quote)** spoiler omitted **...
...At the Grand Lodge, Janiff is the primary authority figure. He receives communications from the Decemvirate regularly through a small, rotating, pass-through door...
This section completely confuses me. Is the door an intelligent object (polymorph victim?) with a telepathic bond to each of the members of the Decemvirate? Is it some sort of scrying device, whereby you spin it and an image of someone you wish to view appears? If not I do not see how it can pass on communications of the Decemvirate to Janiff. (And why a rotating door?)
If the intention is to indicate that Janiff sits in one room, and the Decemvirate sit in another adjacent one and pass him little notes through a small hatch in the wall, this is not well conveyed; besides which I had formed a general impression that the Decemvirate are often out doing their own things in the world, not sitting in a backroom in Absalom making sure the venture-captain of the Grand Lodge is dotting the i's and crossing the t's correctly?
Sorry about this one, but I'm really not clear what the writer is trying to convey is going on - and I don't have a copy of Seekers of Secrets to fall back on for further possible clues as to what this arrangement is supposed to involve. :(
...As information conduits, venture-captains also pass along letters or messages through Pathfinder channels at agent request.
Minor Quibble:
Should 'agent request' feature an apostrophe and an 's'?
Earlier on page 195, it might have been nice to have had the several other members of the society who stand out among their many peers (Ezralow, Evni, Ling) listed as bullet points rather than scrunched up together in one paragraph. A possible presentation thought for the next printing, maybe... :)
...Resources: Covert sources in nearly every government, guild, religious order, merchant group throughout Avistan and Garund...
There seems to me to either be further details missed from this list, or the absence of a word such as 'and' or 'or' between 'religious order,' and 'merchant group'.
Incidentally on Page 197 practically the entire sentence is repeated: 'The Red Mantis have covert sources in nearly every government, guild, religious order, and merchant group throughout Avistan and Garund.'
As a minor quibble, given the number of towns and cities across Avistan and Garund, I'm perplexed by the claim that the Red Mantis have sources in not just nearly every government but in nearly every guild, religious order and merchant group too. It seems to me that the Red Mantis are assassins, not spies who have people infiltrated into everything, and I would think that they'd maybe have one or two 'go to' people in any major settlement who can update them on local background if a hit was commissioned in the area. I appreciate exceptional cities might exist where the Red Mantis do need a lot of sources, but it seems to me to be a lot of bother for little payoff for them to get someone from the glassworks, the theatre, the lumber mill, the Sheriff's forces, the cathedral, and a couple of other venues in a backwater like Sandpoint on their informants list all of whom will require regular pay or blackmail to maintain co-operation.
[humour]Library vs Library: Fight! [/humour]
P. 97
Mediogalti Island, Crimson Citadel wrote:
...Hidden somewhere on the grounds is Faynas (the Iron Heart), a sanctum available only to the Blood Mistress, that houses the Sarzari Library, said to be among the largest and most complete collection of ancient knowledge anywhere...
Whereas, in the Guide to Absalom (P. 44)
Wise Quarter, Forae Logos wrote:
...Forae Logos, also called the Wise House and The Library of Kortos, is the largest library in Absalom and is known as the greatest source of written knowledge west of the Pit of Gormuz...
In practice, of course, there isn't necessarily any conflict between these two different statements as they are currently written. Forae Logos in Absalom can still be the most extensive collection of knowledge west of the pit of Gormuz, without actually being quite so specialised in ancient knowledge as the Sarzari Library.
On a slightly more practical note though, in the Mediogalti Island quote, 'collection' should be 'collections' (I seem to have missed this one back on page 3 of this thread) and possibly 'somewhere on the grounds' might read better as 'somewhere in the grounds'. (Admittedly I'm going backwards and forwards on this latter point).
Some further Red Mantis comments/minor quibbles:
P. 196
“Red Mantis” wrote:
…The group is dedicated to the worship of the Mantis God – He Who Walks in Blood. Many scholars believe this nameless deity to be Achaekek, an obscure servant of the gods…
Given that the deity is known as the Mantis God, and/or He Who Walks in Blood is it actually accurate to apply the adjective ‘nameless’ to ‘deity’? At the very least scholars have a soubriquet for him.
“Red Mantis” wrote:
…The Red Mantis take on any assassination of any kind, save one. They do not commit regicide against a rightfully sitting monarch. It is said that this is because kings and queens, due to their divine right to rule, are the closest mortal approximations of the gods…
…Princes, princesses, dukes, and all other royal personages are considered viable targets, as are rulers of non-monarchies and any other sort of leader. The prohibition is as specific as it is sacrosanct…
Given that it is stated that the prohibition is so specific would the Red Mantis have any problems with being hired to eliminate the ruler of Alkenstar, who is a constitutional monarch, but only aspires to the title of ‘Grand Duchess’. (See Alkenstar entry, Page 58.)
“Red Mantis” wrote:
…The assassinations, then, are sacred rites, not mere business transactions…
…In addition the Red Mantis never perform assassinations without being paid. It is part of their sacred bond…
Question:
Given that assassination is a holy act for the Red Mantis, and given that they have been paid for it ‘up front’ does killing an employer stop a contract once money has changed hands? (I have a feeling that this one has come up on at least one of the Curse of the Crimson Throne threads.)
With regard to the forthcoming revision of the Campaign Setting, I feel it would be useful to have the extent of how relentless the Red Mantis may be in pursuit defined in it. True the experienced GM will be flexible and creative about this anyway, but the inexperienced GM for whom this is their first campaign might find some guidance of ways that their PCs can annul or otherwise negate a contract placed on their heads handy.
P. 197
“Red Mantis” wrote:
…One signature piece of gear most Red Mantis assassins utilize is the notorious mask of the mantis. As much as they are veils to hide the assassins’ identities, these insectile masks are tools of murder and death.
Very minor quibbles:
For some reason I have a feeling that these two sentences ought to be linked or run together, maybe with a colon or semicolon?
Is it necessary to state ‘murder and death’? Murder usually entails death anyway, as far as I know.
And that’s all the Red Mantis things crossed off my list for now. :)
...while the inscrutable leaders of the group secret themselves among academics and world travelers...
In UK english, the verb is 'secrete', not 'secret' (whether intended to mean giving off vile secretions, or hiding away). I'm not certain if this is the case in US english though.
As a reminder, the Darklight Sisterhood entry also on page 198 may be due an overhaul, as I gather that their role on Golarion has been somewhat toned down since the Campaign Setting was released.
...The past abuses and unfair practices of the Lumber Consortium earned it the animosity of the democratic government that came to power in Andoran 40 years ago and that, at least for the time being, relies heavily on the Consortium for lumber...
The current year assumed by the campaign setting is 4708, and the People's Revolt date on the timeline (on Page 203) is 4669, so either there was democratic government in Andoran before the revolt or the Lumber Consortium has been having problems for less than 40 years.
The entry can also be read as implying that the Lumber Consortium has been having trouble with the same government for those 40 years when the Andoran entry seems to indicate that there are elections every 5 years.
Would something along the lines of '...Since the People's Revolt, the past abuses and unfair practices of the Lumber Consortium have earned it the animosity of successive democratic Andoren governments, though to date they have continued to rely heavily on the Consortium for lumber...' do instead?
Edit:
NB
I made some comments on another Lesser Organization, the Sweettalkers, in an earlier post on this thread, querying how merchants who sew their lips together and communicate in a private language manage to survive?
A reminder from the Ustalav thread of something which came up in a chat a while back:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:
Some Ustalav related discussion from Last Tuesday's chat. The discussion started off with whether or not Vellumis was ever an Ustalav city, which is what Wes is commenting on at first:
Pathfinder Chat (18th November, 2008) wrote:
‹Wes Schneider› Actually I don't think it hurnts anything to say that it was in the way back, before the Whispering Tyrant screwed with the whole region. Since there's not really an honest to god country east of Ustalav - esspecially in that time period - its possible Virholt or Gradluch extended that far south. Even if that seems like a bit of a stretch, it's possible it was just settled by Ustalavic folk.
21:42:37 ‹Wes Schneider› I suspect Ustalav's western borders got a major revision after the wars with the W. T.
21:45:19 ‹Charles Evans› Wes Schneider: Is it possible that Ustalav might once have extended as far south as the river which currently marks the northern boundary of Nirmathas? (since rivers make for fairly popular national bundaries?)
21:47:40 ‹Wes Schneider› C.E.: Doesn't sound unreasonable. I don't think any place else was claiming it.
There was also some discussion of the two 'unnamed' counties of Ustalav, and Wes commented (if I recall correctly) that he thought one of them had been incorporated into Ardeal, but I cannot currently provide a quote regarding that.
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