There are some things that do not synergize well in this game. Its really something that you have to accept.
Wiz/Sorc is one of those things.
Wiz/cleric or wiz/warrior type: they get alot of melee and versatility to go with the change.
Wiz/cleric for example gets some good cleric buffs to go with the wizard a buffs, as well as the melding between bad and moderate bab.
Wiz/warrior mixes bad and best BaB and makes up some of that loss with the buffs a wizard can get.
It's a trade off that needs to exist, in order to keep multi-class characters from seriously overpowering their single-class kin.
If you could get the spell casting of a wizard and a sorc by leveling in both, without any tradeoff, then that would be broken.
In your example of the fighter/ranger the character does lose things from both sides. BaB is the only thing that keeps going. The ranger side loses favored enemy bonuses and some class features and potentially some spell casting for taking the fighter levels and the fighter loses out on feats that require a specific fighter level to get, as well as the multitude of feats that fighters get at each level. You might argue that it's a worthy trade- but it's still a trade.
There has to be a tradeoff.
-S
just to be clear is the OP talking about Caster Level in terms of numerical and DC or full caster progression ?
e.g. from another post
19fighter/1wiz
I have no issue with this char casting magic missle as at 10th level mage however is known spells and spells per day should be that of a 1st level wiz.
such a mulricalss should never get access to any class ability they dont quailfy for in the single class. however anything they have got should scale at a reduce rate in a multiclass.
Obligatory mention of OGL solution from the Unearthed Arcana:
The trouble is that mechanically speaking, it's a lot easier to stack swinging a sword, while mixing unique spell progressions is problematic.
It may simply be necessary to settle for Practiced Spellcaster and PrCs like the Mystic Theurge or Geomancer.
I like the solution from Unearthed Arcana which is very similar to what the OP suggested as option 2. I would go for that option if a player really really really wanted to play a specific character and weren't just looking for a cheesy build.
But why is a cleric/mage casting spells at enemies? A cleric/mage is all about lesser metamagic rods and useful but low-level buff spells.
(Incidentally, lesser metamagic rods are great for multiclassed casters of all sorts. Multiclassed casters have the monetary resources of high-level characters, but all of their spells are low-level.)
While I'll agree the lesser metamagic rod is quite powerful in the hands of a caster like this, without one they are seriously hampered by the low caster level and reduced high level spell selection.
And it is a very bad idea to rest the effectiveness and viablity of any class combination upon a magic item which does not exist in the core book, and which cannot be guarrenteed to be at a player's disposal.
And it is a very bad idea to rest the effectiveness and viablity of any class combination upon a magic item which does not exist in the core book, and which cannot be guarrenteed to be at a player's disposal.
Metamagic rods are in the 3.5 core books, and the SRD.
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Just an analogy:
BaB is import, because its the way "physical" characters overcome higher ACs at higher levels. But for spells, from the moment you start having monsters with SR (which works like a magical AC), the 5/5 cleric/mage will have lots of trouble, since his caster level will be low
Putting another way, the fighter/ranger will have +10 to his attack (plus bonuses) while the mage/cleric will have 5 caster level.
The tradeoffs are still there: while he casts as a 10th level character, he still has access to only low level spells. Im just trying to find a way to make the tradeoff more interesting.
I don't see how this is a problem. He traded a high caster level vs. SR and access to higher level spells from a single class for a larger selection of spells from two classes and the class abilities granted by multiclassing.
As a previous poster said, there has to be some kind of tradeoff. Otherwise, why not have a single class called "Spellcaster" and give them access to all spells and class abilities for all types of casters?
As for the 19/1 fighter mage, if he casts as a first level wiz, he spent a useless level...
The "useless" level is in the eye of the beholder. Sure, he can only cast 1st level spells as a 1st level caster, but he did get a nice boost to his Will Save, and the ability to use scrolls and other magic items he would not ordinarily be able to use as a straight Fighter.
Obligatory mention of OGL solution from the Unearthed Arcana:
That's a great solution for a DM who is looking for an alternate rule system to help multi class casters.
This has been discussed before, and here's what I've suggested if you want to make transparency between Casting classes.
Step 1: Divorce spell slots from class. Spell slots per day are like caster levels... they are indicative of the training of your mental powers.
Step 2: Create a Magic Attack Bonus, or something similar, that equates to caster levels. Classes get low, medium or high, just like BAB.
Do the same with spell slots, either in that they are tied to caster levels 1:1, or they have full and half progression for the full and half casters (so Fighters don't give spell slots, just caster levels at a very low rate).
Step 3: Base your spells known on your class. This means you can get all the caster levels in the world, but if you only have 1 level of Wizard, you are still limited to 1st level Wizard spells known and researchable.
Yes, this means you can't even find or research spells into your spellbook that are higher level than that.
Step 4: Since any multiclass caster will probably end up having spell slots higher than they have access to spell levels, make the Heighten spell feat free.
Or, to make the mechanic more uniform, base the DC of the spell on the slot being used, not the base level of the spell.
So a Cleric 19, Wizard 1 will have a full spell slot progression, and could memorize that Shocking Grasp spell into a 9th level spell slot, and have it's DC pumped up. Low level spells are already handicapped in other ways, since Heighten Spell wouldn't increase the damage cap, HD limit, etc, on lower level spells.
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This would make it so you could basically multiclass however you wanted with full caster classes and you'd have the same level of power (spell slots) as a full caster, with a list of different spells (more lower powered ones, rather than less but higher powered ones).
It also helps with multiclassing outside of casters, and pulls half casters into the mix too.
This would be quite an involved change, but would be the best way to ensure complete transparency.
This has been discussed before, and here's what I've suggested if you want to make transparency between Casting classes.
Step 1: Divorce spell slots from class. Spell slots per day are like caster levels... they are indicative of the training of your mental powers.
...
This would be quite an involved change, but would be the best way to ensure complete transparency.
I don't think you'd really have D&D anymore, but this is a delightful system - thank you. It essentially is how psionics works, with the single power point pool and stacking manifester levels (rules that are hard to locate for the record), converted into spell format.
I don't think you'd really have D&D anymore, but this is a delightful system - thank you. It essentially is how psionics works, with the single power point pool and stacking manifester levels (rules that are hard to locate for the record), converted into spell format.
It's very nearly the psionic system set to the tune of vancian spell slots, isn't it? And while building a character might feel a little less like standard D&D, in play it'll still be the same spell slot system being used and thus still feel the same. Multiclassing just ends up being a bit more in line with the rest of the builds.
About the only other change needed to make it exactly like psionics is to add additional rules to spells to pump them up even more when placed in a higher spell slot (like making Enlarge person go to Huge, just like with Expansion in psionics).
If I'm recalling correctly, Monte Cook did something similar (or exactly that) with a magic system in one of his books.
I don't think you'd really have D&D anymore, but this is a delightful system - thank you. It essentially is how psionics works, with the single power point pool and stacking manifester levels (rules that are hard to locate for the record), converted into spell format.It's very nearly the psionic system set to the tune of vancian spell slots, isn't it?
The major difference is that a psionic character multi-classing loses out on quite a number of power points in exchange for the versatility (as higher level psychic classes gain many more power points per level than lower ones.)