RPG Superstar 2009 Top 4
|
Pathfinder has the opportunity to redefine what the "core" game is. In my experience, there are several feats where the mechanic is either so basic or so obvious, it should be a core feat. I would like to see the following feats transformed to the PF rules to become part of the core toolkit.
Here is my list:
1.) Practiced Spellcaster. It showed up in at least 3 splats, and is a needed tool to assist multiclass spellcasters in their trade, as well as a way to advance monsters to provide proper challenge to PC's.
2.) Extra {Class Skill}. Turning, Bard Songs, Stunning, Rage, Smiting. They all work basically the same. A feat that grants a character more uses of their daily abilities.
3.) "Stat Exchange" feats. Power Throw, Zen Archer, the DEX one that grants DEX to damage, etc. Need the ability to spend a feat to use a better ability score for specific purposes... Power Throw = STR to hit with ranged thrown weapons. Zen Archer = WIS to hit with ranged attacks, etc.
What would be on your list of "feats that should have been core?"
|
All of these are good suggestions, but not all of them are open content, so Paizo would have to be extremely careful to include them. Practiced Spellcaster in particular, no matter how obvious and integral it seems, can't be included into Paizo's work wholesale.
On the other hand, some of the "Extra" feats you mention are in the SRD or other OGL content, so we might see them showup after all.
that.. feat, that lets psuododragons kill imps, perhaps?
-g-
-S
|
I'd like to see some sort of 'Skill Mastery' Feat. Various critters and / or PrCs have the ability to Take 10 on a particular skill, even under duress, and that seems like it might be an appropriate thing to add. Particular skills have other bonuses often listed (usually in critters with the appropriate ability), such as the ability to take a 'run' action while Swimming in a straight line, or to Climb without losing Dex bonus to AC, which could also be folded into the relevant feats.
Also, 'Skill Finesse.' Monkeys, etc. are able to use their Dex score in place of their Str score for Climb, Jump and / or Swim checks. That would be something cool to see as a feat.
|
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
|
A feat that lets you apply weapon specific feats to similar weapons, so if you have improved critical (longsword) and weapon specialization (longsword), you can then apply them to all long blades. The only thing out there similar that I'm aware of is the Warblade class ability from Bo9S and also the Tempest prestige class abilities that let your weapon specific feats apply to your other weapon when fighting two weapon style. There could be others, but a feat that granted the ability to do this would be a good addition to core.
I actually don't like Stat exchange feats. They're interesting as abilities partway into a PrC, but as a Feat they just feel like MinMaxing tools.
Extra <X> is fine, as long as an option is available to the Bloodline/School powers too. It'd be bad if the only classes that can't get more daily uses are the ones that are mostly likely to run out of gas.
I'm still undecided with Practiced Spellcaster. As-is, multiclassing is too strong.
A feat that lets you apply weapon specific feats to similar weapons, so if you have improved critical (longsword) and weapon specialization (longsword), you can then apply them to all long blades. The only thing out there similar that I'm aware of is the Warblade class ability from Bo9S and also the Tempest prestige class abilities that let your weapon specific feats apply to your other weapon when fighting two weapon style. There could be others, but a feat that granted the ability to do this would be a good addition to core.
See, to me that defeats the whole purpose of being specialized. And that class ability was the single biggest thing that made me hate the Warblade.
I'm still undecided with Practiced Spellcaster. As-is, multiclassing is too strong.
Is multiclassing spellcasters too strong?
|
|
Is the concept of reserve feats closed content?
I believe so, but there's a very similar concept called Locus Feats in Sword & Sorcery's Vigil Watch: Asaatthi, and I do believe that was Open Content.
In that conception, the spellcaster needed to have several spells of appropriate types memorized (or slots available to cast them with, for Spontaneous sorts) to tap the magic, and usually some other prerequisites, such as a Spellcraft score of X (which served as a 'must be X level' prereq as well). They usually built up in 'trees' as well, so that one Locus feat might allow one to generate and shape light, a second one to generate electrical energy in the form of a melee weapon and a third one allow one to send little lightning balls out to zap people or something. (Away from books, so I'm just making crap up right now, but it's kinda like that...)
The multiple spells stored formed a 'Locus' that one could tap, sort of a magical pattern generated within the caster, so that the one that allowed the caster to create a glowing melee weapon of electrical energy might require the caster to have a pair of Light spells and a Shocking Grasp memorized or something to 'form the Locus' and as long as those three spells remained available, he could make his electro-whip or whatever all day long. As a fun aside, different Locus feats obviously required different configurations, but a Light spell could be part of multiple Loci, 'fueling' several different feats at once!
Same basic deal, but, as occasionally happened with 3rd party material that found it's way into D&D (most likely through parallel development, even if some writers have cross-pollinated between companies), not nearly as powerful.
Calling them Locus Feats, and thus tying them to the Open Content version, would allow the idea to be included, if not any of the specific Reserve Feats listed.
It has the added fun of having scaling feats that could allow a spellcaster who wished to invest heavily in a theme to have multiple at will powers of that sort, by preparing the right spell load-out, instead of just 'memorize a cold spell, breath a 15' cold cone' and nothing else related to cold, ever.
I'm still undecided with Practiced Spellcaster. As-is, multiclassing is too strong.Is multiclassing spellcasters too strong?
Depends on the character. A mystic theurge with Practiced Spellcaster can be quite frightening.
I'm still undecided with Practiced Spellcaster. As-is, multiclassing is too strong.
My experience with Practiced Spellcaster in my 3.5 game is pretty positive.. however this is a case where the rogue wants to go Wizard for the rest of his career. In that scenario you have core classes, one of them is not a spellcasting class, and the player is trying to avoid being too penalized for an early career choice.
There might be other scenarios where it does become pretty abusive.
|
|
A Cleric/Wizard (Druid/Sorcerer, whatever) Practiced Spellcaster is basically a fat stack of jack. Oh, he's got seventy bazillion spells to choose from, but they are going to be several spell levels behind the challenges he's going to be facing, which is going to give him the unique ability to suck at all sorts of different things, instead of being good at one thing.
By very carefully choosing spells that don't allow saves, and accepting that you will never be able to access the spell levels you'll need for the fattest juiciest Metamagicked-until-it-screams uber-combos, you can make an *effective* Mystic Theurge / Arcane Heirophant / etc. with Practiced Spellcaster. But it's not going to make the straight-class Cleric, Druid or Wizard cry in his coffee about how overpowered you are.
Unearthed Arcana had an optional rule for allowing spellcasting levels to increase even with levels of non-spellcasting classes (at a lesser rate) or 'weak spellcasting classes' (like the Ranger or Paladin). That might be even better than the Practiced Spellcaster feat, which is kind of a kludge, IMO. It might be better to 'fix' this at the base level, rather than offer a Feat as a 'patch.'
2.) Extra {Class Skill}. Turning, Bard Songs, Stunning, Rage, Smiting. They all work basically the same. A feat that grants a character more uses of their daily abilities.
I'm not sure I think these feats should be included in the game at all. For example Extra Turning is an easy way to compensate for the fact that Clerics generally use charisma as a dump stat. That said, extra turning is already included in the Alpha 3 rules.
3.) "Stat Exchange" feats. Power Throw, Zen Archer, the DEX one that grants DEX to damage, etc. Need the ability to spend a feat to use a better ability score for specific purposes... Power Throw = STR to hit with ranged thrown weapons. Zen Archer = WIS to hit with ranged attacks, etc.
Well Dex to damage is in the Alpha sort of.
You can make exceptionally deadly ranged attacks by
pinpointing a target’s weak spot, at the expense of making
the attack less likely to succeed.
Prerequisite: Dex 13, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: Add an amount equal to your Dexterity modifier (or your base attack bonus, whichever is lower) to your ranged damage rolls for one round (in addition to the normal damage modifier from a high Strength score, if applicable). Subtract the same amount from your ranged attack rolls for 1 round.
I'm not sure what the WotC feat does but I like this version quite a bit, sort of like power attack for archers.
Shape Spell, although it should be written in such a way that it does not increases the area affect of spells. (for example shaped grease covers an area 8 times the size of the normal spell)
-Melodic Casting from Complete Mage. The Bard has it hard enough; this feat simply removed unnecessary restrictions on using bardic music.
-Arcane Strike from Complete Warrior. This feat alone can be the definition of the fighter/mage.
-Snowflake Wardance from Frostburn. A self-buffing, offensive use of bardic music? COOL!
-Rapid Metamagic from Complete Mage. It eliminates one of the key disadvantages of the Sorcerer: having to apply a metamagic feat as a full-round action, but more importantly not being able to use Quicken Spell.
-Matt
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 4
|
-Rapid Metamagic from Complete Mage. It eliminates one of the key disadvantages of the Sorcerer: having to apply a metamagic feat as a full-round action, but more importantly not being able to use Quicken Spell.
100% agree. also add the feat that allows summoning monsters to be done as a standard action instead of full-round.
|
|
Not to be rude, but has anyone actually read Practiced Spellcaster? it seems to me that no one has. sure, it gives you a +4 to the caster level of a spellcasting class, but only if you have 4 more levels in another class (or +1/ extra level). This is hardly an earth-shaking improvement. Your durations go up and Spell Penetration chance, that's it.
Not to be rude, but has anyone actually read Practiced Spellcaster? it seems to me that no one has. sure, it gives you a +4 to the caster level of a spellcasting class, but only if you have 4 more levels in another class (or +1/ extra level). This is hardly an earth-shaking improvement. Your durations go up and Spell Penetration chance, that's it.
Or damage or any other of the possible spell effects that are based on the caster's level. Easy Example: Magic missile.
Yes, some of us have read it. Anybody who hasn't read it, isn't going to admit it to you or anybody else.
And for that matter, a couple us said that we were pretty comfortable with it. Set said (in so many words) that it wasn't a dealbreaker. I said my experiences were pretty favorable, but I allowed that there might be some scenario that I'm not thinking of. Why? Because maybe there is a case or class combination in which it's abusive. As a GM I don't dwell on the art of munchkinism unless forced to by players.
Basically, I agree with what you're implying.. But instead of directing your comments at any one of us specifically, you side step confrontation for the opportunity to piss everybody off unilaterally. So we all are faced with the choice/option to actually find you to be rude, condescending, and attention seeking. Which is exactly what you said you hoped to avoid in your very first words.
You had a fine point to make. Why the attitude?
[snip] Also, 'Skill Finesse.' Monkeys, etc. are able to use their Dex score in place of their Str score for Climb, Jump and / or Swim checks. That would be something cool to see as a feat.
Agile Athlete from Races of the Wild lets you use dex for jump and climb. I used it for a Thri-kreen with a jump check around +60. I love thigh-creams.
also add the feat that allows summoning monsters to be done as a standard action instead of full-round.
Academae Graduate?
also add the feat that allows summoning monsters to be done as a standard action instead of full-round.
You're probably referring to Rapid Spell, from Complete Divine. That's a solid one, though not as ground-breaking as Rapid Metamagic or Melodic Casting. Rapid Spell makes a summoning druid stronger, where the other two make the Bard and Sorcerer suck less, and in all reality the disadvantages they target should be removed from the base classes themselves.
-Matt
I'd like to see some sort of 'Skill Mastery' Feat. Various critters and / or PrCs have the ability to Take 10 on a particular skill, even under duress, and that seems like it might be an appropriate thing to add. Particular skills have other bonuses often listed (usually in critters with the appropriate ability), such as the ability to take a 'run' action while Swimming in a straight line, or to Climb without losing Dex bonus to AC, which could also be folded into the relevant feats.
Also, 'Skill Finesse.' Monkeys, etc. are able to use their Dex score in place of their Str score for Climb, Jump and / or Swim checks. That would be something cool to see as a feat.
Definitely like the idea of Skill Finess, many of these skills developed do in reality rely on speed\agility as opposed to strength, it what Martial Artists call twitch muscle, not a power muscle but muscle that provides speed.
Another Feat which needs to be changed is improved unarmed combat, it should boost the unarmed combat to 1D6 or at the very least 1D4. Very few characters take unarmed combat as a feat as it is a very poor feat. Also recon it needs to improve the crit level to 19-20 and allow a character to add power attack to his unarmed attacks.
In the end you finish up with the equal of a short sword that bludgeons but it'd be nice to turn a Fighter\rogue or even a mage into a bit of a pugilist. Street Peasant who's made a bit of extra cash doing paid unarmed fights, or down and out Knight who's turned to earning money with his fists in big cities like Waterdeep,Greyhawk or others.
Sorry bout that. Honest. I love this board but I get a bit testy sometimes. I really didn't mean anything by it. I love that feat. I try to take it any time I play a multi-class caster.
I was testy too. I shouldn't have snapped.
And I shouldn't presume to psychoanalyze either, it just gets frustrating when you have a thread with diverse opinions, and everyone in the thread is addressed as if they share the same view. There's no personal confrontation, true enough, but it doesn't help.
Anyway, I'd be the pot calling the kettle black if I railed on testiness too much. :)
|
|
Probably because that's exactly what they are.I actually don't like Stat exchange feats. They're interesting as abilities partway into a PrC, but as a Feat they just feel like MinMaxing tools.
Or maybe they just even the playing field for character concepts (the dashing swordsman, the aged monk whose calm and wisdom make him a master archer, etc.) that are otherwise sub-par under the rules.