"When your players didn't like PfRPG Alpha..." I hit them with a rolled up newspaper :P
So far, it has been received rather well. The only thing was skills.
I didn't like the Alpha 1 skill system at all, but there was an interesting-sounding variant in one of Jason's threads:
You get a cartain number of ranks over the levels (depending on your class) and put them into skills. 0 ranks would mean untrained (just ability score), 1 would be 1/2 level + ability, 2 level+ability, 3 level+ability+3 and 4 level+ability+6.
I introduced it and had a riot on my hands. When they converted it over, they didn't have nearly as many "skill points" as before - bonuses would go down across the board, and many skills they dabbled in they had to give up altogether.
But when Alpha 2's skill rules came up, we quickly decided that they were perfect and all's well.
I honestly can't think of any major point anyone complained about. I can't even think of any minor points right now.
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- Concentration skill rolled up with Spellcraft: doesn't work, simply put.
- Perception skill: having to differentiate racial and situational bonuses every single time from a catch-it-all value is clunky. It slows down gameplay more than it simplifies it.
- Power Attack and Great Cleave: the fighter wasn't happy in the least.
- The new cover in combat rules: not everyone uses a grid, minis, battlemap, or else. Argh.
Everything else was pretty much a blast. Tested with AR2 rules.
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For those of you who ran the Alpha releases in-game, what kind of negative feedback did you receive during and after play from your players on the rules?
Surprisingly enough, my characters didn't like the change to the instant death spells (finger of death, slay living etc.)
They're playing an evil group though, so they use this spell more than it gets used on them. They may change their mind once we get to the next section with all the negative energy wielding undead all over the place.
Some of the feats were'nt as well recieved as I thought they would be. Cleave and power attack copped some flack. On that note, if you're dual wielding two longswods, can you cleave with both? I said no and my party were'nt impressed.
Hmmm... the joys of DMing.
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My group has decided to wait for the Beta.
Part of that was not every class was available in the Alpha and we were already into Rise of the Runelords. We're in the middle of Sins of the Savior now, probably finishing up in about two weeks, so we'll take a look again after that.
The problems we have are the combat feats. They simply aren't fun for us. Most of the skill combinations are annoying, but the group can manage it with a pre-made character sheet (thanks Alpha 3), but we won't really play while Concentration remains part of Spellcraft or Search remains part of Perception.
My group is a lot like me. When things are working, they don't want to change. We're currently using a houserule that has made the game oodles of fun. I took the 'Gestalt Rules' in Unearthed Arcana and I built a 20-level Racial Progession that each character gets in addition to their class abilities. I think the group has really been enjoying these rules. They make an elven fighter distinctly different from a dwarven fighter, even if the 'fighter' part is identical. I also used that as an excuse to give some extra healing. For example, elves and gnomes (to a lesser extent) have the ability to cast some healing spells.
I think the houserule is popular enough that it will be tough to convince people to play the Beta without that rule. But then it won't be true playtesting. I think I might have to bust some heads. I just wish there were a couple of Alpha Updates before the Beta since I can't imagine not finishing Rise of the Runelords in June.
I took the 'Gestalt Rules' in Unearthed Arcana and I built a 20-level Racial Progession that each character gets in addition to their class abilities. I think the group has really been enjoying these rules. They make an elven fighter distinctly different from a dwarven fighter, even if the 'fighter' part is identical. I also used that as an excuse to give some extra healing. For example, elves and gnomes (to a lesser extent) have the ability to cast some healing spells.
Offtopic, but could you put these somewhere? That's pretty awesome.
If you'd like it, I can e-mail it. Just to warn you, there are some tweaks that may be necessary after some playtesting, but it is mostly solid. It includes the standard races and most of the MM races... If you can provide your e-mail I'll send it right over.
I'd like this as well.
ackerman_paul@yahoo.com
If you'd send it to me as well. Thanks
If you'd like it, I can e-mail it. Just to warn you, there are some tweaks that may be necessary after some playtesting, but it is mostly solid. It includes the standard races and most of the MM races... If you can provide your e-mail I'll send it right over.
DeadDMWalking,
As a fellow 'Gestalter', I'd love to see this too - it sounds like a really interesting variant. Here's my email:
daehith@msn.com
My RotRL campaign is already set up as a standard gestalt, but I might try this for CotCT if I end up running it (which looks likely).
Thanks!
Your Friendly Neighborhood Dalesman
"Bringing Big D**n Justice to the Bad Guys Since 1369 DR"
My group flipped through the Alpha 1 printout for a while, said "Eh, this is cool, but it's way too complicated, I don't want to have to keep up with all this extra stuff," and went back to impatiently anticipating 4E. (By "complicated" they were talking about all the extra stuff you have to write down and keep track of for the PC races and classes.)
I expect I'll show it to them again when Beta comes out, but if it keeps complicating rather than simplifying the game, there's not much chance my group will be able to get interested in it.
Hey.. that was quick! Thanks.
Ofcourse... now I have to wait to really look at it as I have to start getting ready for work soon...
:D
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The rogue doesn't like having the search tied into the perception skill because its wisdom based instead of intelligence.
My wife hates the combat maneuver system, but she never grappled, tripped, sundered, etc. anyway. She might change her mind when she uses it, who knows.
My wife also (can you tell who I get more feedback from) didn't like the new turn undead/channel energy system until the selective channeling feat was released. Now she has no problem with it (unless she her character has a low charisma!).
To me too, please.
Myname (with a dot in between) at gmx dot net
Director of Brand Strategy
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For those of you who ran the Alpha releases in-game, what kind of negative feedback did you receive during and after play from your players on the rules?
I think that the best thing to do if your group doesn't like the system is to get feedback and tell them that the purpose of a playtest is to make the things they don't like, (or more specifically things that don't work correctly), more manageable and enjoyable. It should also be noted that feedback isn't "negative" as long as it's constructive and passed on to Jason. That's the point of a playtest.
like to see em to [screen name]@ yahoo.com
If you'd like it, I can e-mail it. Just to warn you, there are some tweaks that may be necessary after some playtesting, but it is mostly solid. It includes the standard races and most of the MM races... If you can provide your e-mail I'll send it right over.
I'd like a look as well, if you wouldn't mind! Spamreef@hotmail.com
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So far there haven't been any complaints.
One of my players is a bit aggrieved that it is now harder to trip people, but at the same time he likes that it takes far less time to sort out. That's the closest we've come to a genuine complaint.
So many people want to see those gesalt house-rules you should just post them in one of the other forums (the generic D20 forum I presume).
So many people want to see those gestalt house-rules you should just post them in one of the other forums (the generic D20 forum I presume).
Concur.
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If you'd like it, I can e-mail it. Just to warn you, there are some tweaks that may be necessary after some playtesting, but it is mostly solid. It includes the standard races and most of the MM races... If you can provide your e-mail I'll send it right over.
I'd really appreciate it if I could also get a copy of this as well.
My e-mail is Satanathanasifattouh@yahoo.com.thanks
About the only thing I can think of is Jump included in Acrobatics, and thus Dex based. Jumping was about the only skill that decreased for Fightery types. Most other things well recepted.
Oh, and a couple love synergy bonuses.
Please send the progressions to me as well. ckell@charter.net
Thank you!
Herhaps I am the only one here, perhaps not. But was the skill system all that messed up? Lumping stuff together, stuff that has different modifiers, different uses....I dont know. Adding them up different and such? How about going with 3.5 on skills and just adding more goodies on level progress with no dead levels. Add stuff for the rogue.
The rules have in general been recieved very well.
That is Combat Maneuvers, conditions, and the like. Races were mixed and classes not welcomed to our game.
If you'd like it, I can e-mail it. Just to warn you, there are some tweaks that may be necessary after some playtesting, but it is mostly solid. It includes the standard races and most of the MM races... If you can provide your e-mail I'll send it right over.
Please send to me as well (we're keeping you busy with emails aren't we?) :)
lojakz@yahoo.com
I haven't really shown it to my whole group, just one of them for playtesting. He liked it and didn't really have any qualms about it, though at least one of my other players probably won't like it if it is too much of a change.
If you'd like it, I can e-mail it. Just to warn you, there are some tweaks that may be necessary after some playtesting, but it is mostly solid. It includes the standard races and most of the MM races... If you can provide your e-mail I'll send it right over.
I've considered doing something like this but didn't really have the time. A lot of people seem to like this idea so you might as well post it :P
email: lordtataraus@gmail.com
We've been play testing the alpha channel positive energy rules in our current RotRL game and haven't been to happy with the them. We liked the option of using it for healing, but not the effect that it had on undead. Its kind of lacking and under powered in our assessment.
Instead, the DM has now house ruled that turning could be used to heal in-between combat encounters and that undead would be turned per the original SRD mechanic.
Personally, I would have liked to see a compromise between the two. Not that I'm thrilled with WotC right now, but I like what I've heard regarding turning and 4e and wouldn't mind seeing a 3.5 version of it.
If you'd like it, I can e-mail it. Just to warn you, there are some tweaks that may be necessary after some playtesting, but it is mostly solid. It includes the standard races and most of the MM races... If you can provide your e-mail I'll send it right over.
Ding ding!
fletcher.gibson (at) med.navy.mil
Thanks, friend. That's a really intriguing idea that I've never seen suggested before. I'm a big fan of racial substitution levels and this sounds exactly in tune with those.
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So far the overall responses have been really positive to it. They love the channeling rules and with the new item crafting and identifying system our wizard player is getting into crafting which is pretty rare for my group.
I think the only negative feedback I've gotten is that they feel the str based limit on power attack favors monsters a lot over players. There were some questions about the effectiveness of cleave and multishot too, but none of characters have those, so they haven't gotten a test yet(and as I understand it the combat feats are getting reworked in the beta anyway, since the rules for combat feats are being dropped).
-Tarlane
DeadDMWalking wrote:
If you'd like it, I can e-mail it. Just to warn you, there are some tweaks that may be necessary after some playtesting, but it is mostly solid. It includes the standard races and most of the MM races... If you can provide your e-mail I'll send it right over.
Thought I'd jump on the bandwagon as well, if you don't mind.
Email: JonWWebb@Hotmail.com
I'd really appreciate it. My group had played around with it once, but never got far. We were playing Rifts for a while, and had combined the Racial Character Classes and the Occupational Character Classes. We thought it would be a good idea to carry over to other gaming systems, but never got to it since I had to move. (Stupid me had to go and get married! LOL Destroyed my gaming group!)
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Sorry for the threadjack. I've sent it to everyone who requested it from this point and above.
If you want to share it, I'm fine with that, so you can put it on a file share site or forward it on, whatever makes you happy. Likewise, they're not completely done - in that I have some new ideas to 'tweak' and regulate what levels the benefits accrue at, but it may be some time before I have a chance to 'finish' any of it.
And since everyone who has a copy to this point has my e-mail, please feel free to send me suggestions, criticisms, critiques, complaints, or whatever.
I'd like a copy too please! (ceiling90@gmail.com); I think it would really help in the way I would like to run my games.
And about the OP, I haven't been able to play a game, but from my reading of the rules, it's my new default 3.5, plus or minus some of the more complicated (CMB rules, and Combat Feats) or what I didn't like...
Haha.. I love how gamers are like.. Pavlovs dogs... new rules? DING DING we want them! Mention something you've written up and we're all on it like white on rice.
Yes, I was one of them... just saying... :D
Me want me want
Xyll@sbcglobal.net
thanks to who ever sends it.
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If you'd like it, I can e-mail it. Just to warn you, there are some tweaks that may be necessary after some playtesting, but it is mostly solid. It includes the standard races and most of the MM races... If you can provide your e-mail I'll send it right over.
I'd love to look at these options as well, sounds good.
Cylerist@yahoo.com
thanks
Could someone send me DeadDMWalking's (love the name) Gestault Racial Progress, please.
Gamingcrew@earthlink.net