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Why don't I feel like Pathfinder is doomed in the least?grumblegrumblegrumble
voice 1: Behold the werewolf! Walking about as a jello jiggler that has almost completed its four-hour curing!
voice 2: Does he not care that even as we speak, the great hand is shaking the canned whipped topping and rinsing the decorative serving plate?
voice 3: Perhaps he thinks his lycanthropine demeanor will protect him from the certain doom of Pathfinder that stalks us like a grumpy five-year-old who has lied about washing his hands before treats are offered!
many voices: Heathansson! Do not think yourself above our fate! When the hour of the great snacking arrives, you will jiggle! By the gods, we all shall jiggle together!
GRUMBLEGRUMBLEGRUMBLE
Meh....I don't jiggle les I just took a whiz.
Why is a raven like a writing desk?
Although Carrol never intended for there to be an answer to this riddle... he, after the fact, created one:
`Because it can produce a few notes, tho they are very flat; and it is never put with the wrong end in front!'
You're some unbelievably excellent tea yourself, Hatter! ;)
They both have quills.
01001001 00100000 01110111 01110101 01110110 00100000 01001000 01100101 01100001 01110100 01101000 01100001 01101110 01110011 01110011 01101111 01101110
I am not a digit!
I am a man!
(the crowd mumbles in unison... "naw, you're a digit alright")
BTW, deaddmwalking, it's worth saying that I've always liked you and your posts, going all the way back to my coming here in '05. Another aside, I know.
(Heath and me was sayin' nice things about you through email.)
For here is where our stuff physick is all boiled down to 1's and 0's, and all are 1's are of the same dimension, as are our 0's.
And so we are truly ghosts in the machine, and if not friends then a new word needs to be invented somewhere between friend and penpal.
Has anyone viewed males as being more representational of 1's and females as being representational of 0's? Not cuz men are substantial and women and nothings... I was going with the ol' genitalia symbolism. Someone must have covered that base by now, right?
Covered it with my entire being.
Lol.
Well then in this coming transformation into pure binary I would request to become a one. Someone gotta be the one.
Hope you're up for the competition. I have heard:
There can be only one.
Wait, that isn't right. How about:
There can be only one one
Dang. That just looks completely stupid, even with all the emphasis work. Maybe if I...
Crap. This one's stuck in the ditch. Best to leave it for the haulers.
Hope you're up for the competition. I have heard:
There can be only one.
Wait, that isn't right. How about:
There can be only one one
Dang. That just looks completely stupid, even with all the emphasis work. Maybe if I...
Crap. This one's stuck in the ditch. Best to leave it for the haulers.
If there was only one one you'd have eleven, dummy.
::goes off to polish his trailer hitch::
::puts away his paper party hat and the mint-flavored equine dental dams::
O,o?
"Mint-flavored equine dental dams"?!?!
duuude... :oP
*hides the jar of peanut butter*
::puts away his paper party hat and the mint-flavored equine dental dams::O,o?
"Mint-flavored equine dental dams"?!?!
duuude... :oP
*hides the jar of peanut butter*
::points to where the jar was hidden::
That's uh... that's not extra crunchy, is it?
Is this really how people making thoughtful contributions to the system being treated or is it merely a miss understanding which could be cleared up?
If you think that troll only made thoughtful contributions to the system, then yes, you have a misunderstanding. As someone who was on the receiving end of some of his "thoughtful contributions" I can say I hope that he is gone, and gone for good. There are plenty of people with his ability of analysis, but he did his best to drive them away. Without his childish insults I expect we'll get more - and better - comentary from those who are mature enough act responsibly even when there is no accountability.
I'm very surprised.
...
In addition to Jade's reply, I think a lot of what you're seeing here is also threadjack to keep Harris from stirring up more nastiness, which I sadly succumbed to. Crikey! I'm still pissed about him telling us there's no friendship in here.
A lot of people liked some of Franks ideas, and I was one of them, and I have also posted to the effect that I regret the decision to ban him. A polite but stern email might have sufficed and could have had the same result without forcing him out.
Iron hand in the velvet glove... Sadly I don't think the dude, or dudes calling the shots on 'moderating' see it this way.
And we were also about to bang the life outta this palomino.
Mother!
And we were also about to bang the life outta this palomino.Mother!
::looks down the the nursing, necrotic foal::
I ain't your mother, son, but don't let that stop ya!
@ Charles Evans and Kruelaid,
I hear ya, and respect ya... but I maintain if that is the price of a perfect system, I don't need perfection.
A polite but stern email might have sufficed and could have had the same result without forcing him out. Iron hand in the velvet glove... Sadly I don't think the dude, or dudes calling the shots on 'moderating' see it this way.
A week is not so long a period of time. My understanding is that the moderators didn't force him out, they just suspended him temporarily -- like a hockey player in the penalty box.
Ah, Kruelaid, I know you have great wisdom in many things, but your optimism seems maybe too much, in this case. Frank, for all his analytical ability, more or less stated point-blank that he could not be persuaded to moderate his tone. No matter; I personally didn't find him all that annoying -- but then again, I've lived in New York. I must admit, though, that the boards as a whole are nicer now than they were a few days ago -- maybe a few suspensions (of anyone at all, not necessarily anyone in particular) get people to chilling out a bit. If that's all it takes, I'd be willing to sit out a week myself, if it meant coming back to the boards I've come to love in the past 3 or 4 years.
Ah, Kruelaid, I know you have great wisdom in many things, but your optimism seems maybe too much, in this case. Frank, for all his analytical ability, more or less stated point-blank that he could not be persuaded to moderate his tone. No matter; I personally didn't find him all that annoying -- but then again, I've lived in New York.
I changed trains in New York once. The station was gorgeous. I asked some dude who was standing waiting for something if he knew where I could find the platform I needed (Some of the signs were obscured by plastic sheeting because of construction) and the guy made this hissing noise like a leaking bike pump and ignored me. I didn't say another word until I got on a train again.
And as far as the OP, I really don't know what in particular got Frank thrown in the box, my idea of what should happen is just my idealistic model of how things should work.
In the end I really don't care too much, certainly not enough to make a big deal about it.
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From a strictly lawyer's point of view, I like this saying. :D
If you're down with transactional law specializing in IP, let's go make us some of that there licensing money. Attourneys both need and deserve their own intra-industry humor. I'm seeing us securing your bank's venture capital arm to back just such a merchandising company. I'm seeing us selling brass plaques etched in pithy sayings, cigarette cases, flasks. I'm seeing us getting out quick with a military contract profit before the investors choke on our astounding losses.
Then it's you, me, and boat drinks, Radavel.
<clink>
Cheers.
:)
With the cheap labor in my country, that idea has some possiblities. :D
That's so f#$+ing funny an acronym just won't do it.
I am rolling on the floor laughing my f%@~ing ass off.
(much reviewed & revised)
You have confused me, Watcher.
I think I misunderstood you Charles, actually. When you restated your position, I could see that clearly.
I guess over time, I have become less cautious and less neutral about this matter. I never appreciated Frank's lack of self-restraint. These weren't gaffes, or irregular displays of humanity. They weren't flashes of humanity. The guy was a creep on a routine bases, and was patently indifferent about it.
Robert's comment about "isn't it worth slapping up some lamerz and making some babies cry for a better game?"(not an exact quote, but I don't want to page back), really irritated me. My answer to that, "No, not ever. If you can't do it without attacking people then the weakness lies within you. Surely someone somewhere can do it without resorting to dehumanizing others."
I suppose a few days later I'm tired of glamorizing Frank and his so-called contributions. Yeah, he had some good ideas, and then he soiled them by treating other people like crap. I don't think Jason should have to wash Frank's contributions just to make 'em useable.
Frank seems to ask the world to accommodate him and his eccentricities. Well, there is a line, and on this occasion the World asked Frank to compromise, and he declined. To that end, Frank quit. Someone might argue "How could he be expected to return after the shame of being given a time-out?" I'd like to point out that Frank made that public information. Paizo acknowledged the time-out once confronted about it, but never announced it. Frank could have dealt with this privately, Frank decided his pride was worth more than helping with this project.
The title of this thread should be "Frank quits?"
Anyway, I misread your post Charles. I got no beef with what Kruelaid either. Just don't think we need to break out the violins for what might have been lost here; it wasn't worth the price anyway.
I'm shutting up about this now.
The title of this thread should be "Frank quits?"
Nothing on this thread has been put so aptly and concisely as the above.
I wonder if Gary would consider changing the thread title.
As someone trollman called "the stupidest gamer to ever live" just for saying a fighter and a wizard didn't have to be balanced against each other. I could care less if he posts again. Any thing he could help or point out is useless if he can't say it without attacking folks who might not be 100% on board with how he sees the game. the game is more then math and balance and powergamer and if trollman can't see that and can't act civil to other posters do we really need his help?
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Don't hate on Frank. Again, his tactless approach to human interaction does not diminish his knowledge of mechanical issues. Yes, Frank's ego is only matched by his total post count in a number of other forums, and he's rude and undiplomatic, and he has a comically-oversized axe to grind with intelligent design theory, and he is foul-mouthed...but that doesn't make him any less of a valuable playtester. (It also doesn't make his posts any less entertaining to read.) In fact, I suspect it's quite the opposite--his "cut to the chase" method of posting indicates an analytical, details-oriented mind.
Similarly, K is indescribably stubborn. I've had debates with him in the past, and he refuses to budge an inch for anyone. However, that doesn't make him any less of a D&D system-monkey, and his status as a CO board regular is well-deserved.
Also, I don't know Frank at all (save for the fact that he seems to have a billion posts on other forums), but I got the joke he was making.
The sad thing is, we would probably worship them as gods if they could have shown a little respect. I'm not really happy about the way this has turned out - the playtest threads will be a gentler place, but some very rigorous analysis will be lost. That said, I am reasonably happy with the trade-off.
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I'm not gonna add to the discussion (?) but if there are some out there who want to check out some of the other work Frank and K have done you can check this out (it's a direct link to a pdf so give some time to load)
http://turing.bard.edu/~mk561/frank_k_0.5.1.pdf
It's not everyone's cup of tea but it certainly contains well thought out material. I hope some of you find it of value.
I've seen it. Nice stuff.
But there's a lot of "nice stuff" out there. So what makes the difference? Personality. And I read enough of Trollman's posts that he's not someone I'd want to support with my hard-earned dollar.
Petty? Perhaps. Maybe I should be separating the end product from the manufacturer.
But there are folks rejecting 4E sights unseen simply because of WotC's business practices. Same with Palladium due to its author, Kevin Siembieda, and some of his practices. I think of products in some ways as resumes and the writers as the interview: the former will get my attention, but the latter will get you (or not) the job.
With the cheap labor in my country, that idea has some possiblities. :D
From a strictly lawyer's point of view, I like this saying. :DIf you're down with transactional law specializing in IP, let's go make us some of that there licensing money. Attourneys both need and deserve their own intra-industry humor. I'm seeing us securing your bank's venture capital arm to back just such a merchandising company. I'm seeing us selling brass plaques etched in pithy sayings, cigarette cases, flasks. I'm seeing us getting out quick with a military contract profit before the investors choke on our astounding losses.
Then it's you, me, and boat drinks, Radavel.
<clink>
Cheers.
:)
The warm tones of an old narrator's voice as he open to the last page of a thick, olden storybook:
"And what started at first as a joke made two men very rich"
The voice becomes even deeper and cozier and the camera pans in on the last page where an illustrated Radavel and Jade sail off into the magical sunset.
"and very happy..."
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Y'know, the guys at Paizo have been designing adventures for a long time now, and out of that will have a pretty good grasp of what the issues are. And, in addition, they are asking for input from the Paizo community as to whether the changes are too much or insufficient. In any case, the point of PFRPG is that is should be backwards compatible - it isn't a fundamental rethink of the the game. I think your lack of faith in what a series of professional game designers who have worked in d20 for years can do - because one, somewhat ill-tempered, former game designer has (through his own foolishness) got himself removed from the playtest - is a little odd.
The Cult of Frank is, in my view, misguided. I don't really see Frank as the final arbiter of what the game should look like. Sure, he knows a lot of stuff, but he has a very specific view point about balance with which many of us disagreed. In any case, Frank is perfectly at liberty to come back whenever he wants. He probably won't, of course, but that is for him to decide. In the meantime, I suggest you don't prejudge what comes out, participate in the PFRPG playtest, and decide when it looks more final. If you still don't like it then, don't buy it - it is as simple as that.
I'm not gonna add to the discussion (?) but if there are some out there who want to check out some of the other work Frank and K have done you can check this out (it's a direct link to a pdf so give some time to load)
http://turing.bard.edu/~mk561/frank_k_0.5.1.pdf
It's not everyone's cup of tea but it certainly contains well thought out material. I hope some of you find it of value.
I have a copy. Some of it looks interesting. Some of it might find its way into my future games. After reading Frank on The Gaming Den, though, I had to think long and hard about whether to keep it on my hard drive, because the concentrated asshattery I'd just read tainted my perception of Frank's work.
Are you boycotting the works of other writers, actors, and musicians because they might act in a way you are against?
Yes.
I guess I don't care if my mechanic is a jerk if he can fix my car to perform as I want it to.
What Frank was doing (besides arguing) was rewriting the rules of a game. To be successful, he had to convince the readers that his solution, and his understanding of the game, are sound, and that's hard to do if the readers are blinded by anger at the very sight of his name or if they're convinced by some of Frank's unrelated comments that his judgment is faulty.
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Oh and i dont appreciate someone going over to the other forum begging people to come back because and i quote "Without you guys being...you guys, the stupidity quotient threatens to suffocate Pathfinder. And then there will be no one to combat the Lich-Loved or Aubrey the Douchetwat threats. "
I just found it.
Ayy carumba.
"...Aubrey the Douchetwat threats. "I just found it. Ayy carumba.
Do we need a new thread for that? "Is Aubrey a Douchetwat?" I vote no.
Maybe he's a Brit, and hence drives on the wrong side of the street -- and hence is a "threat" (to sane drivers, anyway) -- but that's not the same thing.
why does the cult of trollman sound so...well evil.......new villains for my game.. order though math and balance...or else
I just wanted to point out that Kevin Mack didn't call Aubrey that...just brought it to attention. ;)
D'OH! Yeah, I can see how that looks now. Sorry, Kevin. Thanks, Heath.
