Spells with sliding DC's I think are a great idea for 3E. But I've come to wonder if the current system is really the best. Right now, the formula for a spell DC is:
DC 10 + Spell level + spellcasting modifier.
This tends to make casters reach for their biggest spells first and work their way down the line to less effective spells. I've even seen casters who've worked their way down two or three levels of spells try and get the party to stop and rest as if they are out of spells, even if they still have a half-dozen lower level spells left. I'd kind of like to see this change. Each spell has its own built-in limits, so perhaps to encourage more uses of a spellcaster's lower level spells the formula could change to:
DC 10 + 1/2 caster level + spellcasting modifier.
Now if the 8th level wizard casts Charm Person or Charm Monster, both spells would have a DC 14 + Int modifier and the big difference would be what creatures the two spells can affect.
About the only glaring problem I see is that Bards get a bit of a boost on their spell DC's, but I'm not sure this is a bad thing. Both rangers and paladins have a caster level equal to half their class level, so a 20th level Paladin still has a spell DC of 15 + spellcasting modifier - one higher than current. I don't think that would be gamebreaking in itself.
Thoughts? Better or worse idea?
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I know this came up in another thread. I like it.
The 'problem' is that a high level caster will be able to use low level spells on low-level opponents and they won't have a chance. Of course, this isn't really a problem because that is already the case (a +10 modifier isn't that hard to come up with to the the DC between ability scores and spell focus). And high level casters should be able to be very effective against low level opponents. That's why they don't fight much....
I also liked this in another thread, and have been considering it heavily.
To my mind the only big issue is one of overall balance - this would make casters reasonably more powerful.
As it is, a caster has a few spells that scale up with the "Good" saving throw (spell level 1/2 levels, good saves 1/2 levels). This would make them all scale with the Good saves.
An alternative would be to take 10 + 1/3 Caster level + ability mod, making it scale with the "Poor" saves. While still higher than currently for many of a caster's spells, it would take the edge off their abilities, and I don't find this a particularly good solution either.
I favor this idea, rather strongly, but it needs some considerations.
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I use this rule already and it makes for two major effects in my games:
1) PCs respect the ability of casters they know are higher level than they. They know even a burning hands cast by an archmage is going to have some oomph behind it. It does away with a lot of the metagaming of what a spell save DC could be.
2) Both PCs and NPCs fail saves more often, meaning effects debilitate/disable the target more often. I adopted a system of letting a PC attempt the save they failed once per round on their turn, at the same DC they failed with a -1 adjustment to the DC for each round it has been affecting them. I have found this to make spells like sleep and hold person far less of a fun-killer by making a player sit out multiple LOOONG rounds of combat, especially at high levels. Even if youre unconscious, you still have SOMEthing to do on your turn.
We've used this house-rule for some time now. It actually works pretty well. The save bonuses go up much faster than the DCs for each level, so it is more balanced.
At first, we worried that the players would get hammered by enemy casters, but being a little more effective goes a long way for a PC caster. Nothing sucks like casting all your spells and the enemies save every time.
-Jack
I will be using this with my group. It simplifies casting since you only have one (or two if you also specialize) DCs to track.
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I quite like this idea as well. And to have a couple of people report that they have been using it already is a good bit of feedback.
With a limited resource it's very disappointing when it doesn't work.
I guess this goes to how one thinks about magic... the standard way would be "this spell can only harness just so much magical power, and after that any excess is lost". Meaning it doesn't matter if you're 149th level... you case Magic Missile and you get 5 missiles, just like the 5th level guy, because that's all the spell can do. I prefer the other side, which this idea illustrates, where as the caster increases in power he learns how to bring more out of the spell... the spell is still limited in its effect, but the caster at 149th level knows how to worm it through the defender's defences.
I like this one. And it's a pretty easy switch for backward compatibility. Obviously you wouldn't play a stock 3.5 caster in the same game as a Pathfinder Wizard, but it's a really easy switch one way or the other.
I have to remember Heighten Spell Metamagic here.
This feat was exactly for what you were asking.
A high level caster would only need to cast a 1st level spell (sleep) and put a group of mid-level pcs to sleep.
The Point: WITHOUT the need of further spell power.
While I like simplicity and having only one DC to track really appeals to me, I must consider that the possible power gain might be too much.
Possible Solution: Give all Spellcasters the said metamagic feat as a general magical option (meaning ability) for free.
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In general, I am not a fan of the metamagic feats. Especially Heighten. Are you really going to memorize a spell at 2, 3, 4, 8 levels higher just to boost the DC? Heighten becomes kind of useless after a while as there are almost always going to be "better" spells to cast of the level you're heightening it to. I *do* like the "sudden" metamagic feats... they make a kind of sense to me that using higher spell slots doesn't.
I'm playing an evoker at the moment, and the only metamagic feat I use is Sudden Maximize. I fire that off when I "absolutely, positively got to kill every last <insert expletive here> in the room" with my fireball. :)
That said, though, if the save was based on half-caster-level instead of spell level, it wouldn't make a big difference right now since it's my second-highest spell level that I can cast. All this really succeeds in doing is making the lower-level spells more effective than they normally would be... and chances are, if you're fighting something at your level, you can't dip down too many levels and still be effective anyway.
I must admit you are right with that.
I have to remember Heighten Spell Metamagic here.
This feat was exactly for what you were asking.
A high level caster would only need to cast a 1st level spell (sleep) and put a group of mid-level pcs to sleep.
The Point: WITHOUT the need of further spell power.While I like simplicity and having only one DC to track really appeals to me, I must consider that the possible power gain might be too much.
Possible Solution: Give all Spellcasters the said metamagic feat as a general magical option (meaning ability) for free.
Just FYI, Sleep affects a number of HD (4) - useless against mid level PCs.
To me, spells that have a HD limit mean they're too good for their level in the first place. If HD limits are removed from spells though, there definately would be some tweaking that would need to be done to keep some spells from becoming to powerful. But it might allow us to also get rid of some redundant spells that are only differentiated by HD/damage dice dealt - such as Sleep/Deep Slumber (really, I'd rather see a Slumber (read "Sleep") spell that hits one humanoid target, a Greater Slumber (read "Deep Slumber") that affects one creature and a Mass Slumber ("Deep Slumber" or "Sleep" that affects multiple targets).
Also, I'm not overall fond of the standard metamagic rules; Heighten spell is the most useless of the bunch - to the point I don't even bother with it, as can be seen with things like Heightening Sleep to 4th level (vs. Deep Slumber), Heightening Fireball to 7th level (vs. Delayed Blast Fireball) and the like. The extra effects higher-level spells add makes Heighten an extremely subpar choice vs. researching a custom higher-level version of a given spell. (If heighten could actually turn lower-level spells into their higher level companion - say turn Fireball into Delayed Blast), that'd be a great help to the sorcerer or the wizard who doesn't have the higher-level spell in spellbook - but it'd bee a pain to list what-turns-to-what at higher levels).