Two handed weapons with power attack can deal truely horrendous damage
so can Spirited charge (if you want a fighter to be as baddass as the mage nothing screams, "I rock rarder than Rod Stewart" like a dragon for a mount")
PRetty much two of the only effective builds for a Fighter.
cleaving after either attack spreads the misery to other opponents and I've seen a few good roles from a fighter clear out plenty of challenging opponents the party was struggling to bring down.
Cleave is pretty much another low level trap.
Two weapon fighting with sword and shield or with two weapons does moderate damage but also adds enough attacks for multiple attempts at disarming, tripping ect. A well thought out weapon selection (wounding weapons for example) increase the deadlyness of multiple hits regardless off low damage output.
TWF pretty much sucks flat out unless your a Rogue.
Combat expertise lets a fighter dodge and weave away from creatures with truely horrendous attack modifiers if they are wounded or don't have the tools to be effective, absorbing hits, conserving party resources, and buying time.
You'd think that but man does Combat Expertise lose its usefulness later on (Beilived me I've tried my best to keep it useful).
The only limit a fighter has on these tricks is the number of enemies foolish enough to remain in his path.
Which at high level those things are ablt to neutralize the Fighter easily.
Obviously your millage has varied from mine significantly. Our fighters were the cornerstone of the party usually. We slapped him with buffs and unleashed him upon the enemy. The party focused on keeping him alive and secondary targets and objectives while he trounced the biggest threat on the field. He used two weapon fighting styles and Two handed combat and put out damage that put the wizards spells to shame. We liked rogues a lot too. They do great damage, but only under sneak attack conditions, against vulnerable targets, and if their attack missed it was the fighters job to bail them out before they got eaten.
If your gaming style has led to fighters feeling slighted then I agree, you might wanna help 'em out with a boost. I'm just trying to point out that fighters (at least in my campaigns) have plenty of shining moments even at high levels.
And if you are going to disagree with me please provide evidence as to why what I said was wrong.
"Two weapon fighting sucks if you aren't a rogue." for example. A fighter with two wounding scimitars, greater weapon specialization, and improved critical. Is a combination a rogue would have trouble using effectively and can do loads of harm without needing a flank or flatfooted opponent.
Also you made a good point about combat expertise. We house ruled away the "only up to +5 to armor class" limitation in my games and I completely forgot the RAW when I was writing my post.
Did you even read the book? And needlessly complicated? What, do you have the IQ of a wombat or something? Give me one example of anything complicated about it.EDIT
And on the flavor b!&%&@!#, do what you should do when you don't like the flavor change it.
What is this, gleemax.com? Stop the name-calling.
Then spare me your lecturing. Yes, I have read Tome of Battle. One ought not to confuse "needlessly complex" with "too complex for one to understand."
I did not come hear to argue about the merits and flaws of ToB, but your friend appears to have tried to take me to ask on such. Unless, of course, this thread is the "defend ToB from criticism" thread.
I was talking about exagerations of the book implying that everyone gets the ability to shoot fireballs, fly, and other then ignoring any of the moves from it that would have been relevent to fighter.
He is not my friend, but I'm not going to start telling people to leave the forums just because I disagree with them on which mechanic is the best for a class.
Also this is not the "defend ToB for criticism" thread. It is also not the "exaggerate the stuff I don't like about ToB" thread.
I was talking about exagerations of the book implying that everyone gets the ability to shoot fireballs, fly...
HEY! Don't drag me into this! I already clearly indicated that those examples did NOT refer to the BoNS. If you're looking for examples of what you're talking about, quote someone else.
I was talking about exagerations of the book implying that everyone gets the ability to shoot fireballs, fly...HEY! Don't drag me into this! I already clearly indicated that those examples did NOT refer to the BoNS. If you're looking for examples of what you're talking about, quote someone else.
Erk. I wasn't thinking about your post, but instead Psychic Robot's first post on the subject. I toned downed the examples in his post because I didn't want to just quote it again and I got to your post by accident. Sorry about that.
Obviously your millage has varied from mine significantly. Our fighters were the cornerstone of the party usually. We slapped him with buffs and unleashed him upon the enemy. The party focused on keeping him alive and secondary targets and objectives while he trounced the biggest threat on the field. He used two weapon fighting styles and Two handed combat and put out damage that put the wizards spells to shame. We liked rogues a lot too. They do great damage, but only under sneak attack conditions, against vulnerable targets, and if their attack missed it was the fighters job to bail them out before they got eaten.
Well if the Wizard was just using Damage spells thats just not smart, there are tons more useful spells for the wizard that do more than do damage (Though playing a blaster can be alot of fun). You gotta a point about Rogues though.
If your gaming style has led to fighters feeling slighted then I agree, you might wanna help 'em out with a boost. I'm just trying to point out that fighters (at least in my campaigns) have plenty of shining moments even at high levels.
Its not even that, fighters can be highly effective its just to get there you have to concentrate only on one gimic whether thats Power Attack/Charging, Spiked Chain/Guirsame tripper, a Spiked chain AoO user,or a Grappler (Which other classes do better) it gets very boring. And thats the core problem of the fighter with me, he is so damn boring to play. Hell the Knight, Warlock, Bard, Paladin ,and Dragon Shaman are all pretty weak classes but seeing how they have options there fun to play.
And if you are going to disagree with me please provide evidence as to why what I said was wrong.
All right you got a point.
"Two weapon fighting sucks if you aren't a rogue." for example. A fighter with two wounding scimitars, greater weapon specialization, and improved critical. Is a combination a rogue would have trouble using effectively and can do loads of harm without needing a flank or flatfooted opponent.
The problem with TWF in 3.5 or PRPG is that the damage even with wounding weapons,improved critical, and Weapon Specialization (The latter two are weak options Imp. Critical for having to burn a feat for somehing you can get put on weapons and Weapon Specialization for the terrible feat tree you have to go through) gets bad as you level up. Not bad to the point of useless but still bad and those extra attacks are pretty much guaranteed to miss at high levels.
Also you made a good point about combat expertise. We house ruled away the "only up to +5 to armor class" limitation in my games and I completely forgot the RAW when I was writing my post.
Nice to know I'm not the only one
KaeYoss:
Yeah don't talk s!*# about the Gleemax boards and all right no name calling from me.
Well if the Wizard was just using Damage spells thats just not smart, there are tons more useful spells for the wizard that do more than do damage (Though playing a blaster can be alot of fun).
Our casters rarely used damage spells like fireball and lightningbolt. Partially because of how much better the fighters dropped enemies hp.
Its not even that, fighters can be highly effective its just to get there you have to concentrate only on one gimic whether thats Power Attack/Charging, Spiked Chain/Guirsame tripper, a Spiked chain AoO user,or a Grappler (Which other classes do better) it gets very boring. And thats the core problem of the fighter with me, he is so damn boring to play. Hell the Knight, Warlock, Bard, Paladin ,and Dragon Shaman are all pretty weak classes but seeing how they have options there fun to play.
I agree. In fact I rarely play fighters for just that reason. I prefer monks, or druids, or rogues. The last one I did play was a mobile two weapon fighter that specialized in grappling. (Enlarge person and I became great friends).
But that is personal taste, not the class itself. My friends that were inclined to fighters loved nothing more than shouting "double Jeapordy!" (their self coined term for using all their BAB into a power attack) and rolling a D20 with childlike anticipation. I know that they wouldn't change a thing.
Also Improved critical as a worthless feat is debatable. Fighters have many feats to spend and enchanting both weapons (for TWF) with an additional +1 bonus can become more of a pain than spending the feat. It also has the added bonus of applying to any weapon of that type, even the backup scimitar in case one gets sundered or when you fight in anti-magic fields.
Our casters rarely used damage spells like fireball and lightningbolt. Partially because of how much better the fighters dropped enemies hp.
Generalist, Necromacy, Enchanter, Abjurer, Transmuter ,or Conjuer (I ask just out of curiosity, I'm mainly a Conjurer myself)
I agree. In fact I rarely play fighters for just that reason. I prefer monks, or druids, or rogues. The last one I did play was a mobile two weapon fighter that specialized in grappling. (Enlarge person and I became great friends).
Enlarge Person is a friend to just about everyone. And I prefered to do it with Psychic Warriors.
But that is personal taste, not the class itself. My friends that were inclined to fighters loved nothing more than shouting "double Jeapordy!" (their self coined term for using all their BAB into a power attack) and rolling a D20 with childlike anticipation. I know that they wouldn't change a thing.
I'm not saying it can't be fun as is, but a few more options couldn't hurt ya know.
Also Improved critical as a worthless feat is debatable. Fighters have many feats to spend and enchanting both weapons (for TWF) with an additional +1 bonus can become more of a pain than spending the feat. It also has the added bonus of applying to any weapon of that type, even the backup scimitar in case one gets sundered or when you fight in anti-magic fields.
Even though Fighters get an abundance of feats there still pretty limited and one like Imp. Critical are pretty low on the need factor IMO and in the opinion of most of the CO board. That feat could have gone to a Imp. Toughness (Not the PHB version), Shock Trooper, Rolibars Gambit, Sun and Night School, Martial Strike, Martial Stance, Brutal Charge etc.
Generalist, Necromacy, Enchanter, Abjurer, Transmuter ,or Conjuer (I ask just out of curiosity, I'm mainly a Conjurer myself)
Generalist as I hated being denied access to any schools of magic. My favorite spells were typically conjurations, illusions, and transmutations though.
Cloudkill followed by ottolukes resilient sphere to trap an enemy in a magic gas chamber. Heh, good times....
Generalist, Necromacy, Enchanter, Abjurer, Transmuter ,or Conjuer (I ask just out of curiosity, I'm mainly a Conjurer myself)
Generalist as I hated being denied access to any schools of magic. My favorite spells were typically conjurations, illusions, and transmutations though.
Cloudkill followed by ottolukes resilient sphere to trap an enemy in a magic gas chamber. Heh, good times....
I usally specialized (Especially when Unearthed Arcana and PHB had the Variants, usually gave up Evocation and Enchantment.). But yeah Conjuration had the largest amount of fun combos you could do with other spells. Solid Fog+Black Tentacles+Shadow Evocation, GR (Fireball)=Fun.
Better ask Paizo to give the fighter an extra 20 HP/level, immunity to mind-affecting spells, bonus damage on attacks, evasion, mettle, damage reduction, spell resistance, a bonus to saves, and the ability to self-rez.
I'll take all the above without the self-rez, thank you.
Seriously. If the fighter could do the above a certain number of times per day, I think it would be a great help to the class. I've built a whole system around something like it (and I've put it in a thread in the combat section), and while it is pretty damn powerful, I haven't seen it as overpowering. The campaign I playtested it in, the optimized fighter still was overwhelmed and killed.
Actually I think that the Fighter really should be like the Warblade, but not in mechanics. The Fighter should be able to do the stuff the Warblade does, but with feats rather then maneuvers. Only the stuff that's thematically appropriate for the Fighter though. The Fighter would probably get abilities similar to Iron Heart, Stone Dragon and perhaps Diamond Soul and Setting Sun. Maybe White Raven as well.
Actually I think that the Fighter really should be like the Warblade, but not in mechanics. The Fighter should be able to do the stuff the Warblade does, but with feats rather then maneuvers. Only the stuff that's thematically appropriate for the Fighter though. The Fighter would probably get abilities similar to Iron Heart, Stone Dragon and perhaps Diamond Soul and Setting Sun. Maybe White Raven as well.
Ugh, no way, not as a feat system, do not want.
Plus you just described the Warblade to the T. Those are all the Schools it has access to (With the exception of Setting Sun and White Rave). And oh yeah its Diamond Mind not Soul.
I will go out on a limb and say that the Crusader mechanics (which seriously require a deck of cards that you shuffle and reshuffle in the middle of combat), are too complicated to be enjoyable. Warblade Mechanics are generally not too bad.
-Frank
I don't want ToB stuff, just because of the theme of it (I don't want Wuxia in my game UNLESS I'm running Oriental Adventures).
What I do want is if the Wizard alters reality and the Cleric has gods doing him favor, when they meet the fighter on the battlefield, he kills them.
I want the fighter to be the undisputed taker of lives. If the Wizard/Cleric throws demons and creatures at him, I want to see the fighter mow them down, motioning what he's gonna do to the caster next. If the wizard/cleric tries to blast the fighter with spells, I want to see the fighter sucks it up and survive it, or manage to sidestep, in both cases moving in to make the wizard's life miserable. If the wizard/cleric tries to push him off with spells, the fighter just keeps coming at him. If the wizard/cleric tries to Tenser Transformation/Divine Power to match the fighter, the fighter just laughs and cuts him down.
This sounds about right, but I also like the Dynasty Warrior's thing from Frank.
And he can do it in a loincloth with a borrowed sword.
This is the province of the Barbarian, not the fighter.
Given that Wail of the Banshee requires a Fortitude save, he likely will be.
...I'm not sure about this... I've actually seldom had a character make a save, and seldom seen a monster fail a save...
Psychic-Robot: Drop it, don't turn this into a flamewar.
I will go out on a limb and say that the Crusader mechanics (which seriously require a deck of cards that you shuffle and reshuffle in the middle of combat), are too complicated to be enjoyable. Warblade Mechanics are generally not too bad.
-Frank
Not that complicated but yeah a different mechanic would have been better. But I usually play Swordsages anyway (Unarmed Variant with Setting Sun and Daimond Mind mainly).
I think the fighter's main ability ON EVERY LEVEL should be to somehow CONTROL the battle.
While I don't know how to achieve this, I think that's what the fighter sould be about.
Weapon skills and Combat control.
I think the fighter's main ability ON EVERY LEVEL should be to somehow CONTROL the battle.
While I don't know how to achieve this, I think that's what the fighter sould be about.
Weapon skills and Combat control.
Currently that's the Wizard and Druid's main ability. At first level they see grease and web, respectively. At 5th level they get wall of force and wall of thorns. What could a Fighter get at any level that would control the battlefield as effectively as an impenetrable barrier?
It's an interesting concept, and if we were designing a game from scratch I would like to hear more. But that role is already taken as well as most of us would allow it to be taken by different classes.
At core there are only five things you can do that make a difference in combat:
- Kill Opponents (ex.: flesh to stone)
- Buff Allies (ex.: haste)
- Curse Opponents (ex.: grease)
- Prevent Enemy Actions (ex.: fear)
- Undo Enemy Actions (ex.: dispel magic)
Now as you can see, Wizards are allowed to do some of every single thing you can do to advance the cause of the PCs in combat. Some of it they do super well (enemy action prevention, killing opponents), some of it they do pretty mediocre (buffing and undoing enemy actions). But they can do it all.
Battlefield control is usually about cursing or preventing enemy actions. And the Wizard and the Druid are all over that like maggots on garbage. I genuinely think that Fighters need to find a different niche.
-Frank
Actually I think that the Fighter really should be like the Warblade, but not in mechanics. The Fighter should be able to do the stuff the Warblade does, but with feats rather then maneuvers. Only the stuff that's thematically appropriate for the Fighter though. The Fighter would probably get abilities similar to Iron Heart, Stone Dragon and perhaps Diamond Soul and Setting Sun. Maybe White Raven as well.Ugh, no way, not as a feat system, do not want.
Plus you just described the Warblade to the T. Those are all the Schools it has access to (With the exception of Setting Sun and White Rave). And oh yeah its Diamond Mind not Soul.
I always get that mixed up.
And is that a bad thing? The Warblade is pretty much a Fighter that uses maneuvers.
So your solution to the Fighter is to give him incremental numeric bonuses until he can either kill things faster than a rogue, as fast as a rogue, or slower than a rogue. At that rate, why not just call the Rogue the "Fighter" ad downgrade the current Fighter to an NPC class?
That's not hyperbole or anything, I'm honestly curious as to why you would want two martial classes whose schtick is "I kill things by doing a lot of damage" - that seems like a limited enough gimmick that it leaves little room for a wide swath of character classes.
-Frank
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I want the fighter to be the undisputed taker of lives. If the Wizard/Cleric throws demons and creatures at him, I want to see the fighter mow them down, motioning what he's gonna do to the caster next. If the wizard/cleric tries to blast the fighter with spells, I want to see the fighter sucks it up and survive it, or manage to sidestep, in both cases moving in to make the wizard's life miserable. If the wizard/cleric tries to push him off with spells, the fighter just keeps coming at him. If the wizard/cleric tries to Tenser Transformation/Divine Power to match the fighter, the fighter just laughs and cuts him down.And he can do it in a loincloth with a borrowed sword.
Sounds like your high level fighter is able to exchange some of his BAB for a bonus to saves, and spend his iterative attacks to ignore damage resistance or movement penalties.
Kill a dozen smurfs per round by crushing them between his mighty pectorals!
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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A fighter should be somewhere in the middle of having the most hit points and the highest AC. It's the Fighters job in the group to not so much do damage, but to keep others from taking damage.
A combination of High AC, lots of Hit Points, and threatening to do some serious damage while standing in a monsters face is his niche. With a HIGH AC the fighter discourages monsters from Power Attacking and focusing on him instead of geeking the mage.
Fighters need something beyond mid levels to keep them interesting and unless some mighty special feats are imagined then other class features need to be tweaked out.
A fighter should be somewhere in the middle of having the most hit points and the highest AC. It's the Fighters job in the group to not so much do damage, but to keep others from taking damage.
A combination of High AC, lots of Hit Points, and threatening to do some serious damage while standing in a monsters face is his niche. With a HIGH AC the fighter discourages monsters from Power Attacking and focusing on him instead of geeking the mage.
Fighters need something beyond mid levels to keep them interesting and unless some mighty special feats are imagined then other class features need to be tweaked out.
Haven't really put much into this but while playing a Knight (only to 8th lvl) I kept thinking that this was just a beefy more defense oriented Fighter.
The PHB2 Knight is a great example of some abilities that a fighter should have had in his repertoire.d12 HD
Knights Challenge (All of the abilities)- No brainer for those who want to aid in controlling battlespace.
Bulwark of Defense - This works even at high levels except vs. teleporting types. Even then maybe gear something up for improved spellcaster harassment.
Armor Mastery - Don't know why this isn't available to fighters. Nope, can't figure it. Fighters probably spend as much time in their armor and don't have noble dinners to go to. Well sometimes, but I hate pantaloons.
Vigilant Defender - Similar but advanced Bulwark of Defense.
Shield Ally & Improved - Make them feats.
Negatives--loses a lot of feats if you want to keep it 3.5 balanced.
I know, why not play a Knight...well as a matter of fact I do. Crappy fort save though. Plus I hate the nobles, doing a peasant knight thing.
After all, how many first level wizards would survive against a first level fighter?
Depends how many wizards win initiative/are out of charge range and have Sleep prepared ;-P
Serious question:
If the answer to a magical problem is a magical character,
and the answer to a physical problem is a magical character,
what is the purpose of a physical character?
Seriously, if Yin always beats Yang, and Yin fights Yin on even keel, why would anyone ever pick Yang? Why throw Paper, Rock, or Scissors when you can apparently throw Chuck Norris and automatically win regardless?
-Frank
For fun and RP? I'm not one who plays D&D to "win," so maybe that differs based on one's gaming expectations.
I agree that all character classes should be able to contribute about the same to the game. I say game, not fight, because there's more to it than just killing monsters. There's exploration, negotiation, problem solving.
I think that since fighters are mostly in for the fight (hence the name), they should be very good at fighting. And I think that a fighter should be able to take on just about every other class in a fight. I don't say that he should always win those fights, but he shouldn't always lose, either. It should not be a foregone conclusion. And, as I said, since the fighter is virtually all about fighting, he should be slightly better at fighting than other classes who can do other things, too.
Of course, the good old rock-paper-scissors approach can work, too: Class A has an advantage over Class B (so it's more likely that A will win - not a sure thing, mind you), Class B over Class C, and C over A.
To make things simple right now: Maybe wizards have an advantage over fighters, but fighters can beat up rogues, and rogues, on the other hand, make wizards quite nervous.
But I agree that it shouldn't be: "Fighters beat Rogues, Rogues beat Clerics, Clerics beat Fighters, Wizards beat all." Chuck Norris should not be a class, more a race (with LA +InvinitePlex, but Chuck Norris can play it, anyway. The guy can roll 3d6 and the least he comes up with is 19)
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Heavy Hitters (Ex): At 1st level, all fighters learn how to hit harder and do more damage with their weapons. This allows 150% of the normal strength bonus (rounded down) to be applied to weapon damage. This modifier is multiplied by Critical Hits, but does not apply to any other Strength related checks (eg Combat Maneuver Bonus).
I think I'd prefer having it be level based. This unevenly benefits the uber-Str Fighters, who already have awesome benefits for their Strength. I'd rather it be a competence bonus to damage equal to 1/2 Fighter level (rounded down, so +1 at 1st, +2 at 3rd, etc. up to +10 at 19th level).
Critical Tricks (Ex): From 5th level, when a Critical Hit is threatened, the player can choose to either roll to confirm; OR may roll normal damage and apply a Trip, Disarm, or Bullrush, without provoking an Attack of opportunity and with +4 on their CMB. At 10th Level this modifier increases to +8. These effects are applicable even against a creature that is not normally subject to Critical Hits.
Neat concept.
Critical Effects (Ex): From 9th level, when a Critical Hit is threatened, the player can choose to either roll to confirm; OR may roll normal damage and apply one of the following effects: Deafen (d4+1rds), Sicken (d4+1rds) or Daze (1rd): Fort Save to resist, DC equal to damage rolled +4. At 14th level this modifier increases to +8. These effects are not applicable against a creature that is not subject to Critical Hits.
In my ideal world, the Fighter would already be able to apply Conditions with attacks, with the Conditions being staged effects.
I hit you in the head with my mace. Fail a Fort save by X, be Stunned for a round. Only fail by half of X, be Dazed for a round or two. (Perhaps have the effects be removed by a Fort save from the target, progressively getting easier?)
I smack you in the breadbasket. Fail a Fort save by X, be Nauseated for a round. A 'lesser success' and you're only Sickened for a few rounds.
I open a bleeding gash on your head, save or be Dazzled for a few rounds, blow it bigtime, be Blinded for a round or two.
Staggered, Unreadied, Lamed, Deafened, Mute, etc. All sorts of Conditions that a Fighter should be able to apply. He shouldn't *just* be doing hit point damage, he should be able to mess you up and take you apart like a surgeon.
Critical Expert (Ex): From 13th level, when a Critical Hit is threatened, the player can choose to either roll to confirm; OR may roll normal damage and apply one of the following effects: Blind (d4+1rds), Nauseate (d4+1rds) or Stun (1rd): Fort Save to resist, DC equal to damage rolled +4. At 18th level this modifier increases to +8. These effects are not applicable against a creature that is not subject to Critical Hits. In addition, all Critical threat confirming rolls the Fighter has to make have a Power Critical modifier applied (+4); this bonus stacks with Power Critical if it is a Feat that the Fighter already has.
Maximised Critical (Ex): From 17th level, when the Fighter achieves a Critical threat, the first dice of Weapon damage need not be rolled but automatically achieves its maximum (e.g. d4 =4, d6 =6, etc). This effects only the first dice, so weapons that normally do two dice of damage (e.g. Scythe – 2d4) only gain part of the benefit. This benefit is applied even if the Critical is not confirmed or if fighter chooses to use the Critical to apply a combat maneuver or effect. In addition any spell caster subject to a Critical hit from a Fighter of this level may loose the ability to cast their highest level spells: Highest level spells are not available for d4+1rds, Will Save to resist DC equal to damage rolled + 4, Failure also requires that the same check is made for their next highest level spells, (DC equal to damage, duration as highest but less 1 rd) failure of this requires a check for the third highest level spells (DC damage -4, duration less 2 rds), etc.
Max critical damage is a nice idea. Allowing a Fighter to Empower, Maximize or Quicken attacks, at some cost to himself (such as Fatiguing or Exhausting himself) could be a neat idea. +50% damage for Mighty Strike, maximum damage for Perfect Strike and the ability to strike once as an Immediate Action for Swift Strike.
This sort of thing would allow the Fighter more options in a fight, and the option to take a big risk in the heat of the moment to try and do something really impressive, something that would normally be 'impossible,' like taking an extra attack at the end of the round to try and stave off the TPK that could happen on the EHP's next action.
Well what I never understood was, why Barbarians and not Fighters get Uncanny Dodge.
From my POV, Barbarians are all about Musles. They rush into combat, with no sense of danger take hit after hit without stopping and crush their enemies with incredible strength.
The fighter instead, is aware of everything around him. He knows when to strike and where to strike, he knows which enemy is the weak/strongest and which weakness he must use against them.
This should be the way to build those classes.
Wow. "Metafighter" feats are such a good idea that it hurts.
Part of the problem is that not all the classes can contribute to some of those things.
So they're better at the things they can contribute to. Specialists versus generalists.
Well what I never understood was, why Barbarians and not Fighters get Uncanny Dodge.
As a nod to Conan, I think, whose "tigerish senses, honed to the razor keenness of a wild cat" are always warning him of danger when the "pampered senses of a soft city-dweller" woul;d have failed. Or at least that's what REH would tell us. But I agree that uncanny dodge seems like a logical class feature or bonus feat for a fighter.
Hi!
That´s my first post!
Well, Itrully believe that Fighter do not need immunity but hey should get a high will save at least.
And there should be a feat that could grant Pounce to it at higher level.
On the higher saves part (both Reflex and Will) I would like to point out that a fighter gets a great deal of feats to focus on combat style, leaving the normal level based feats free to gain other alterations.
This goes to a needed alteration to Lighting Reflexes and Iron Will, but those feats can be used to boost a Fighters saves to more 'novel' warrior levels. Now it's fairly clear that the save boosting feats need a bit more then they have but those would seem to me the vehicle to use instead of adding extra class abilities to the fighter.
Watch Gladiator and 300. That.
Those would be medium levels, at most.
Hi!
And there should be a feat that could grant Pounce to it at higher level.
So... high level Fighters should be able to replicate the effects of a 2nd level Druid spell?
Perhaps a better question you should ask yourself is "What should high level characters be doing?" The fact that one of them is a swordsman and the other a scribe shouldn't enter into it.
-Frank
Hi!
And there should be a feat that could grant Pounce to it at higher level.
So... high level Fighters should be able to replicate the effects of a 2nd level Druid spell?
Perhaps a better question you should ask yourself is "What should high level characters be doing?" The fact that one of them is a swordsman and the other a scribe shouldn't enter into it.
-Frank
I do agree with you. Even a Barbarian has pounce at first level thanks to Complete Champion (and in exchange of just 10ft of movement!).
I believe that indeed there should be a feat, maybe not just for Fighters. I don´t know, with Improved initiative as a pre-requisite?
So... high level Fighters should be able to replicate the effects of a 2nd level Druid spell?
The question is: Would they get this before or after they get to replicate the effects of a 1st-level Wizard spell (jump)? :P