OK, first, what is the difference between Skilled as a Human (not sure what "proficient in one extra skill" means), and Adaptability as a Half Elf? Both seem to allow a non-class skill to become a class skill.
Is the extra feat a human gets worth the Low light vision, Keen senses, elven immunities, elf blood, weapon proficiency and extra language a Half Elf gets?
Seems that the scales tilts to the half-elf.
Thrilled about not going 4e.
ASEO out
The Human gets an extra skilled that he knows and acts as a class skill without spending a skill slot. The Half-elf only gets to add a skill to his class skill list, if he wants to know the skill he has to pay for it with a skill slot.
The Human gets an extra skilled that he knows and acts as a class skill without spending a skill slot. The Half-elf only gets to add a skill to his class skill list, if he wants to know the skill he has to pay for it with a skill slot.
Maybe I missed the the number of skill slots thing, but each class has a list of class skills, right, so I still don't see the difference since any skill is useless without ranks devoted to it. Sounds like they both get an extra skill with 0 ranks, that can have ranks added as a class skill. I guess the difference would come if the half elf chose a skill that couldn't be used untrained, but why take a skill that you don't plan on putting some points into.
ASEO out
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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ASEO there are no skill points to use.
I'm a 1st level Human Fighter with 13 Int right I get to choose 3 skills from the Fighter list (Intimidate, Ride, & Survival) and they are my Trained Class Skills. I also get to add any skill as my human bonus which is a Class Skill now (Perception).
Ok so my rolls for those 4 skills are d20 + class level+3 + Int mod + racial mod = d20+5.
All other skills are Untrained meaning I roll d20 + ability mod + racial mod.
At 2nd level I can choose another skill from my class list OR anything else. Say I choose Linguistics (a cross class) skill. My check for that is now d20 + 1/2 (class level +3) + Ability mod + racial mod = d20+3.
Having re-read the racial writeups for half-elf and human again after reviewing this thread...
Really, there is no viable reason to *ever* be human. One proficient skill does *not* balance all those half-elf abilities.
In my opinion the half-elf needs to lose some of it's human adaptibility and the human needs something just a bit better to flesh out it's adaptibility... For instance: Perhaps the human treats *all* core classes as favored, not just one of choice. (This would tend to make humans into the multiclass masters, something this version otherwise seems to discourage.)
Gene P.
Slidell LA
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Quick Question on the 1/2 elf, are they proficent with any weapon they chose, say even an exotic? I know it is just one weapon not the whole group but just wondering if any weapon means "any weapon". It would be cool. I think that the Human and 1/2 elf are balanced ok, makes me want to play a 1/2 elf now, I miss the little guys. Just my 2 cents worth.
Really, there is no viable reason to *ever* be human. One proficient skill does *not* balance all those half-elf abilities.
Except that the human gets the extra "automatically" class skill trained for free, as well as a bonus feat as well. Its hard to measure exactly what racial abilities are worth, but knowing you have an extra feat right off the bad, you immediately start "chains" or get to do things like take toughness that other races won't do because they only have one feat to spend at character creation.
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Quick Question on the 1/2 elf, are they proficent with any weapon they chose, say even an exotic? I know it is just one weapon not the whole group but just wondering if any weapon means "any weapon". It would be cool. I think that the Human and 1/2 elf are balanced ok, makes me want to play a 1/2 elf now, I miss the little guys. Just my 2 cents worth.
I just came upon this creating a half-elf fighter for a playtest game. It says "any weapon," so I took it to mean ANY weapon. Basically, it does give the half-elf an extra feat, just like a human (though admittedly it's only the Exotic Weapon feat).
But I think this is a problem, and may make the half-elf a bit too powerful (or at least a better choice than human).
If choosing your one extra feat isn't important to you, then half-elf beats human, hands down. Racial abilities (LLV, Perception bonus, etc.), extra skill (even if you have to pay for it), and free Exotic Weapon Proficiency.
And then we end up with the following:
Every half-elf fighter (or rogue, wizard, cleric, etc.) takes bastard sword. No longer does a wizard have to rely on a dagger or quarterstaff - he now does 1d10 with his bastard sword.
Should this be addressed? Is it a munchkin's dream come true? I like the flavor of it (and it certainly worked well for my character), but it seems to easy to abuse.
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And then we end up with the following:
Every half-elf fighter (or rogue, wizard, cleric, etc.) takes bastard sword. No longer does a wizard have to rely on a dagger or quarterstaff - he now does 1d10 with his bastard sword.Should this be addressed? Is it a munchkin's dream come true? I like the flavor of it (and it certainly worked well for my character), but it seems to easy to abuse.
Good point. However, it says you are proficient, not that it gives you the feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency. So sure, a half-elf could use a bastard sword, but it'll be two handed.
Of course, you could end up with half-elf rogues wielding greatswords ...
Hmmm ... first thing to go into my house rules / PF playtest document - half elves can have proficiency in any one handed or light simple or martial weapon, or any simple or martial missile weapon?
I would be ok with the half elf losing the weapon feat.
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Good point. However, it says you are proficient, not that it gives you the feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency. So sure, a half-elf could use a bastard sword, but it'll be two handed.And then we end up with the following:
Every half-elf fighter (or rogue, wizard, cleric, etc.) takes bastard sword. No longer does a wizard have to rely on a dagger or quarterstaff - he now does 1d10 with his bastard sword.Should this be addressed? Is it a munchkin's dream come true? I like the flavor of it (and it certainly worked well for my character), but it seems to easy to abuse.
I can't find anything in the SRD that says using a bastard sword one-handed requires Exotic Weapon Proficiency.
A bastard sword is too large to use in one hand without special training; thus, it is an exotic weapon. A character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon.
Nothing says you must have the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat to be proficient in an exotic weapon (for example, the rogue is proficient in the hand crossbow without the benefit of the feat, and a dwarf can likewise use a dwarven waraxe one-handed without a feat).
The problem is in the wording of the half-elf ability. Most abilities state which sort of proficiency it is (Simple, Martial, or Exotic), or state a particular individual weapon. By saying half-elves are "proficient in any one weapon," it creates a loophole. If they can't be proficient in an exotic weapon, or if it doesn't give them complete proficiency, the wording needs to reflect that.
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I started a new thread for discussion of the 1.1 changes to half-elves and humans here: Half-elves vs. Humans - 1.1 update.