Any plans for support past 20th level?
I'd like to see this as well.
I'd like to see them fix the levels past 12 or so first before messing around with epic.
I'd like to see support stop for everything above level 12.
Design by committee is awesome.I wonder how it's all gonna turn out when all's said and done.
I'd like to see support stop for everything above level 12.
Design by committee is awesome.I wonder how it's all gonna turn out when all's said and done.
HATEMONGER!
;-P
I say they should stop supporting anything BELOW level 12.
To be serious for a second: I wouldn't mind another shot at epic levels, but it's not on the top of the list, and I'm not sure whether they have the manpower to do it. There's other stuff I'd rather see coming from Paizo.
Yeah, support eventually. And hopefully balance too. I've found that epic play degraded very quickly as you go up in levels the current way it is set up.
Some polish on key features like the epic feats and the paragon template would be really helpful.
I've used the paragon template quite a bit to get more pad my epic games, but it is a bit crude. It very efficient, in terms of bang/page ration.
Yes! - Epic support would be great and I can't wait to see it. Paizo has always done a good job with the high-level stuff.
But I strongly feel that they should not be thinking about this too soon, as there's a lot of work that needs to be done on the non-epic stuff. That said, perhaps by looking at it sooner and not creating a 'bolt on' system is the way to go.
Although there isn't too much trouble with the current epic stuff (*ducks things thrown in this direction*), as long as you have a fair GM, good players, and an understanding that your spell caster does not NEED to use the epic spell rules just because they are there. They should be reserved for the "save the world" level magics.
The system is pretty solid and, assuming that the '3.75' changes are not as dramatic as some fear, the ELHB should be usable with the Paizo PHB come Aug 2009. Backward compatibility is goal after all.
Any suggestions as to what should be covered in a new epic level play book? Here's the best place to get those ideas out!
My 2 cents:
1) Skill descriptions - do away with where they cross over into the realms of magic. Some of the descriptions are spell effects, not skill checks e.g. balancing on clouds. What I think we need is expanded skill DC tables that actually mean something.
2) Feats - the 3.X way of doing things is nice, with all those bonus feats, but won't work so well with the feat progression as per the alpha release. Too many low level feats compared with crawling to a halt advancement and fewer feats. As it stands, you'd be better off multiclassing into a completely new class. Something similar to the 'Legendary Classes' in the Fantasy Flight Games 'Path of ...' supplements could work better if Paizo stick with a feat every other level.
3) Epic Magic - there's very little with the ideas in the current system. I'd use that as a base, but remove any of the direct damaging stuff. That's handled much better by taking some of the epic metamagic feats. An 'Epic' spell that deals 100s of d6 damage doesn't feel very epic does it?
4) Inspiration - my favorite treatment of the epic game was in the Dark Sun Dragon Kings book. Characters could truly BECOME epic, by opening themselves up to their epic fate and just going with it. It really feels, using that book rather than say the ELHB, epic as whether an epic PC likes it or not they are now a mover and shaker in the world! Also spellcasters/psionicists have the option of literally transforming into something else, something that is built up by the flavor text to be HIGHER somehow than they were before. I'm not sure how this would work if it was fluff-less but it could work REALLY well with the Runelords.
All, IMHO.
Peace,
tfad
Yep, me too!
In my preferred type of game, 1st thru 20th is just character development. THEN the story really gets going!
I'm with . Avangions and Dragons were really awesome... some way to make that kind of transformative "the world is a lot bigger than you think it is" magic come into play would be great.
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In my preferred type of game, 1st thru 20th is just character development. THEN the story really gets going!
::wants to cry a little:: I don't think I could have said that better if I tried.
Paizo,
I am an unabashed epic level fan. I enjoy 1st-20th, but I love the limitless gameplay epic offers. If you can confirm that'd you'd even look at this in the future, I'd be estatic.
But I understand you have a lot of other projects on your "plate." So I will wait, eagerly, for you to take a shot at epic. I am willing to wait because I trust you to do high/epic level material as you have done time and time again.
Even the thought of Epic Pathfinder... wow...
Well, epic play isn't big for my group. At least not rules wise.
Epic play is more in the scale of the story not the strength of the PCs and the big bad.
Director of Games
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Hi there everybody,
I like some of the concepts behind epic play as well, but for the current endeavor, I think I am going to be focusing on 1-20, which is more than enough to chew on for now. If this is as big a success as it is shaping up to be, epic play might end up on the future schedule.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
I'm down for epic.
Particleman did indeed put it well. And I'm okay with a supplement for epic rules.
Particleman did indeed put it well. And I'm okay with a supplement for epic rules.
Me tooo. BUT please no extra-rulesubset for epic characters...
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Hi there everybody,
I like some of the concepts behind epic play as well, but for the current endeavor, I think I am going to be focusing on 1-20, which is more than enough to chew on for now. If this is as big a success as it is shaping up to be, epic play might end up on the future schedule.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
That's all that I'm asking for! Thanks JB, and continue the good work!
FP
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I can appreciate the need to focus on the basics for the first release of the Pathfinder RPG, but I too am throwing in my support for an Epic Level Supplement for PRPG at some point the future. As it has been stated in the Pathfinder forums that there won't be any epic support included in the core AP's (and understandably so), it would be nice to see epic levels officially supported in some way. That said, I'd hope that such a release really tried to improve upon some of the balance issues inherent with epic levels as they exist now in the SRD.
Hi there everybody,
I like some of the concepts behind epic play as well, but for the current endeavor, I think I am going to be focusing on 1-20, which is more than enough to chew on for now. If this is as big a success as it is shaping up to be, epic play might end up on the future schedule.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
I hope you'll consider getting to it a bit sooner. I've been running my current campaign for five and a half years, and the PCs have all reached epic level (21st and 22nd). So until you offer some epic material it would be rather difficult to adopt your rules.
It's interesting how people are either bright-eyed for or agin epic.
I'm guessing here but I think if you've run an epic campaign, or participated in one, and had a mindblowing time... you're down with epic and want more when you can get it. It isn't superior to 1st or 12th level play, it's just a different facet of roleplay exploration.
If, on the other hand, it turned into a logistical headache, or you felt like you weren't challenged in ways that continued to make sense and feel rewarding, you probably aren't down with epic.
When I've run epic level campaigns I've often tweaked the rules a bit to suit each particular campaign, ensuring a balance that allowed me to keep players somewhat on track with challenges specifically suited to each individual PC. Playing levels 12-20 often feels "epic" enough to me. The way I run levels 20 and beyond feels more "folkloric."
After all, someone's gotta be the Monkey King. ;)
After all, someone's gotta be the Monkey King. ;)
That's Wolfgang on EN World. ;)
That's Wolfgang on EN World. ;)After all, someone's gotta be the Monkey King. ;)
That's his handle? I did not know that.