| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The setup for Korvosa seems hard to get straight.
You have a generally LN city with people who enjoy law and order. And you simultaneously have hordes of imps running around the city in little gangs terrorizing people. You also have pseudodragons fighting the imps in the skies. You have a demon-summoning school smack in the middle of town and roving bands of evil Hellknights.
It doesn't seem to hang together quite right. What lawful city would put up with an infestation of imps? Those little buggers can slaughter an average 1st level commoner with ease. (Especially since they are typically presented as total pains in the neck.) I'm just very skeptical that this kind of thing would be tolerated, especially since the magic school is the entire source of these things.
For a LN city, it seems to have a marked propensity for rioting, gangs, etc. There just doesn't seem to be much social control, really. It's fine to have a city dissolving into anarchy, but there is no sense in which the city was ever particularly well-run.
The setup for Korvosa seems hard to get straight.
You have a generally LN city with people who enjoy law and order. And you simultaneously have hordes of imps running around the city in little gangs terrorizing people. You also have pseudodragons fighting the imps in the skies. You have a demon-summoning school smack in the middle of town and roving bands of evil Hellknights.
It doesn't seem to hang together quite right. What lawful city would put up with an infestation of imps? Those little buggers can slaughter an average 1st level commoner with ease. (Especially since they are typically presented as total pains in the neck.) I'm just very skeptical that this kind of thing would be tolerated, especially since the magic school is the entire source of these things.
For a LN city, it seems to have a marked propensity for rioting, gangs, etc. There just doesn't seem to be much social control, really. It's fine to have a city dissolving into anarchy, but there is no sense in which the city was ever particularly well-run.
Every city has it's problems, a fantastical city will have fantastical problems.
Take the imps for example, every city has vermin. The imps are fantasitcal vermin. As for getting rid of them... how? They're hard to kill and routing them out would take a lot of time, manpower and most importantly money. The imps are smart enough not to cause enough trouble to make getting rid of them worthwhile.
The pseudodragons are essentially cats to the imps rats (and for those of you wondering how the pseudodragons would kill the imps, enough pseudodragons would be considered a mob and IIRC mob damage passes DR). So the pseudodragons are a cheap means of imp control.
I'm sure the school has been told to try and control the imp summoning, and I'm sure they've told their students to try and put a lid on things, but students will be students and an organization full of mages is just TOO powerful (politcally and magically) to do more than suggest things too.
The Hellknights are a force for law (an extreme force) and were asked to be there (in what was probably a bad deal). It's not like they're monsters, just don't break the law around them.
Lawful Neutral doesn't mean the place has to be "well-run," just that the tendancy there is for people to prefer rules and regimentation. The rules in this case are for the benefit of the wealthy few, and if a bunch of imps are causing problems for poor people, that can literally be irrelevant to the powers that be.
Yeah, things may slide more toward evil rather than neutral in some ways (particularly the sheer lack of concern for the human condition). But some folks would argue that's just social conservatism at work. The status quo tends to preserve itself, and in a lawful society, to build lots of rules designed to preserve itself as the status quo.
My friends and I were looking at the RotR player's guide and noticed a similar discrepancy in the adventurer description of the paladin. The description states that some paladins (and ex-paladins) who are not devoted to a deity find themselves in the ranks of the hellknights. A description of the hellknights states they bind devils into their service and use 'evil' methods such as torture. We had a hard time grasping the game concept of the paladin fitting into this description. The Crimson Throne player's guide clarified this a bit more.
I'm assuming (yes, I know what that makes me) Paizo is intending on this campaign setting be loosely use the alignment system. Magnimar and Korvosa have all sets of alignments and factions that oppose each other, but somehow seem to 'live' with each other. In a loose system, just because somebody is neutral evil doesn't mean that they intend to kill or enslave the city, they just have evil (selfish) tendencies and will act accordingly. Maybe a better example is the idea of an evil party, PC or NPC. A CE character in that party doesn't have to murder the rest of the evil party because he is CE, he might realize safety in numbers or the benefit of others working towards a similar goal. A LE character and LG character may disagree on methods, but both agree that order needs to be upheld.
As for the imps in Korvosa, they sound familiar to creatures in Perdido Street Station (China Mieville). Dragon and Dungeon magazines had several articles about this author so I finally picked up the book. Paraphrasing, there are imp-like creatures that fly around swearing, copulating, and defecating on the streets below. In D&D these creatures are probably evil (selfish), but they know how to survive in a city of evil beings and good beings trying to kill them. I recommend the book if you don't mind tainting 'Epic Pooh' fantasy forever.
As for the imps in Korvosa, they sound familiar to creatures in Perdido Street Station (China Mieville). Dragon and Dungeon magazines had several articles about this author so I finally picked up the book. Paraphrasing, there are imp-like creatures that fly around swearing, copulating, and defecating on the streets below. In D&D these creatures are probably evil (selfish), but they know how to survive in a city of evil beings and good beings trying to kill them. I recommend the book if you don't mind tainting 'Epic Pooh' fantasy forever.
Can those things in Perdido Street Station kill anyone but an experienced adventurer easily in a stand-up fight? Imps are _tough_! Fast healing, DR, invisibility, etc. They can kill your average human without breaking a sweat. It's equivalent to having roving bands of werewolves roaming all over the city in the open with little to no opposition. I just find this situation to be very hard to believe. I can see making them CR 1/2 creatures with no invisibility, no fast healing, and no DR, but those aren't "imps" as we understand them.
Many of the major organizations with muscle in Korvosa are evil or evil-leaning. With the Hellknights, the King (etc.) with Cheliax demonic influence, the imps, the Academae, the Church of Asmodeus, the theives guild (and their rather more horrific sponsors). That's a lot of concentrated evil with official government approval. It seems weird that the Korvosan people just put up with so much evil in their government, when the people themselves are not presented as evil. The imps are only a small part of this problem.
Why does every major city have to have evil ascendant? It's getting a little predictable with Paizo.
My friends and I were looking at the RotR player's guide and noticed a similar discrepancy in the adventurer description of the paladin. The description states that some paladins (and ex-paladins) who are not devoted to a deity find themselves in the ranks of the hellknights. A description of the hellknights states they bind devils into their service and use 'evil' methods such as torture. We had a hard time grasping the game concept of the paladin fitting into this description. The Crimson Throne player's guide clarified this a bit more.
Actually, I believe I remember a post by one of the Paizo people some months back that stated they were still developing their ideas for the Hellknights when they wrote the RotR Player's Guide, and that as the organization had ended up, while fallen paladins were appropriate, it would probably be unlikely for actual, current paladins to be members of the order. So in that case, I think it is something that has evolved over time as they continue to flesh out the setting. But I like the depth and the feeling of shades of gray that these contradictions introduce - I think it's quite likely that different people within the setting (PCs, NPCs) can have contradictory views/understanding of these groups, as compared to how other people view them, and some of these contradictions can be chalked up to that.
Imps are _tough_! Fast healing, DR, invisibility, etc. They can kill your average human without breaking a sweat. It's equivalent to having roving bands of werewolves roaming all over the city in the open with little to no opposition. I just find this situation to be very hard to believe.
I agree with your analysis; I'm planning on houseruling some sort of magic circle against evil effect over most of the city that keeps the imps out; a few alleys or unhallowed places will represent "gaps" in the coverage where the imps can sneak in and kill you. People will be terrified to take shortcuts through town, lest they enter a "gap" zone. And it would be illegal to cast an area dispel magic in the city, for obvious reasons.
That's a good point, the imps are a lot stronger than the waymen of Perdido Station. Not quite like werewolves rampaging through the city who would be more feral and chaotic. I imagine, though, that the imps would either live off of the society, whether symbiotic or parasitic. They might threaten and bully lone commoners, stealing their food and gold. They might join or lead underground groups, furthering evil plots. Whatever their motives, attacking and killing for the sole pleasure of it isn't trait that lasts long in the city, which would attract attention of the authorities. Even evil authorities want the crowds at ease and passive.
Exploring the interactions between these groups in Korvosa, both evil and good, would be interesting.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Imps are _tough_! Fast healing, DR, invisibility, etc. They can kill your average human without breaking a sweat. It's equivalent to having roving bands of werewolves roaming all over the city in the open with little to no opposition. I just find this situation to be very hard to believe.I agree with your analysis; I'm planning on houseruling some sort of magic circle against evil effect over most of the city that keeps the imps out; a few alleys or unhallowed places will represent "gaps" in the coverage where the imps can sneak in and kill you. People will be terrified to take shortcuts through town, lest they enter a "gap" zone. And it would be illegal to cast an area dispel magic in the city, for obvious reasons.
If the imps actively went around killing people the authorities would have to make the effort to get rid of them. They're described as being pests not murderers. Pests can be lived with, killers have to be dealt with and Imps are smart enough to know that.
'sides I figure an imp would rather tempt than kill, maybe set up a few souls to improve their standing back home; and they'd rather cause trouble that can't be traced back to them. Maybe increasing a feud, or spreading lies.
They're also a way for characters to make a little money at lower levels (Who ya gonna call? Impbusters!).
Contributor
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The setup for Korvosa seems hard to get straight.
From reading through your posts, I think the difficulty seems to be from a matter of hyperbole and scale. The problems you state are not as big and serious as you make them out to be. It's all a matter of perspective. :)
You have a generally LN city with people who enjoy law and order.
Yes.
And you simultaneously have hordes of imps running around the city in little gangs terrorizing people.
No. There are not hordes of imps. The number of imps illustrated in all the art pieces in the Guide to Korvosa probably represent the entirety of the free-roaming imp population of the city at any one time. There aren't a lot of imps; new ones just keep showing up when others get killed.
You also have pseudodragons fighting the imps in the skies.
Yes, maybe once or twice a year. This is not a common event.
You have a demon-summoning school smack in the middle of town and roving bands of evil Hellknights.
No. That entire sentence is incorrect. There is a devil-binding school in the middle of town.
Also, Hellknights do not rove through towns in bands. They only come into town when hired to do so.
Also, Hellknights are not evil. Like Korvosa, they are LN (with LE tendencies).
It doesn't seem to hang together quite right. What lawful city would put up with an infestation of imps?
A lawful evil one. But Korvosa doesn't put up with the imps. Whenever they are found they are exterminated.
Those little buggers can slaughter an average 1st level commoner with ease. (Especially since they are typically presented as total pains in the neck.) I'm just very skeptical that this kind of thing would be tolerated, especially since the magic school is the entire source of these things.
Nobody ever said it was tolerated. *shrug*
For a LN city, it seems to have a marked propensity for rioting, gangs, etc. There just doesn't seem to be much social control, really.
Huh? Where do you get that idea?
It's fine to have a city dissolving into anarchy, but there is no sense in which the city was ever particularly well-run.
Hey now, it was REALLY well-run up until about 4606. ;D
Stupid ineffectual monarchs... ;)
Many of the major organizations with muscle in Korvosa are evil or evil-leaning. With the Hellknights, the King (etc.) with Cheliax demonic influence, the imps, the Academae, the Church of Asmodeus, the theives guild (and their rather more horrific sponsors). That's a lot of concentrated evil with official government approval. It seems weird that the Korvosan people just put up with so much evil in their government, when the people themselves are not presented as evil. The imps are only a small part of this problem.Why does every major city have to have evil ascendant? It's getting a little predictable with Paizo.
I actually plan on casting it not so much as an evil city, but rather as an extremely lawful city. IMC, the Academae, Hellknights, Church of Asmodeus, etc while having Evil (big E) members, are fundamentally evil (little e) organizations. That is, their Lawful tendencies outweigh their evil tendencies.
These organizations do evil things, but obey the laws of the land, in some cases, fanatically. If the Church of Asmodeus needs some new, non-volunteer sacrifices, they try and get a law past that makes war criminals fair game. These organizations need, and are fully aware, on an organizational level, that they need the protection of the law to exist. They may subvert the law to their own purposes, but they rarely break it, as that would set an uncomfortable precedent (Go and sacrifice a few plebs off the books, next thing you know, the gov't turns a blind eye when a cadre of high level paladins ransack your church.)
Further, they probably provide somewhat useful services (so of a Faustian deal) where by demons and devils summoned up by the Academae are put to work on short term public works and construction projects. Clearly, the Hellknights serve as a hard check on dis-organized crime. Perhaps the Church of Asmodeus does a brisk trade in minor curative magics, does some pro bono work for the court system, and focus on the Korvosian equivalent of real world Papal Dispensations.
Now, on the other point, if memory serves, Magnimar is far more self serving and neutrally aligned than evil. I'd hazard a guess that Riddleport, is more chaotic than anything else as well. My take is that the only major settlement to fall completely within the realm of "Evil" would be the hold of Belkzen.
|
Contributor
|
Many of the major organizations with muscle in Korvosa are evil or evil-leaning.
Many? Really? Most of the orgs with muscle are neutral, and at least one is actively good.
With the Hellknights, the King (etc.) with Cheliax demonic influence, the imps, the Academae, the Church of Asmodeus, the theives guild (and their rather more horrific sponsors).
Hellknights aren't evil. (They're misunderstood?) King Eodred isn't governmentally evil. Devils, dude. They're devils. Big difference. Imps are evil, yes. The Acadamae has become more evil over time, but it's still LN (with LE tendencies). The last two I'll totally give, because they're supposed to be evil. ;)
That's a lot of concentrated evil with official government approval. It seems weird that the Korvosan people just put up with so much evil in their government, when the people themselves are not presented as evil. The imps are only a small part of this problem.
Lawful evil is subtle evil. Korvosans put up with evil because they don't see it. Most people in the government (in fact, everyone in the government before Ileosa took over) aren't evil. They're neutral. And the parts that are evil hide behind a veneer of neutrality (see, for example, Glorio Arkona).
Why does every major city have to have evil ascendant? It's getting a little predictable with Paizo.
I dunno, but I suspect because it makes the place more interesting. This was the first city for Paizo I ever worked on, so I can't answer that for sure, but would you rather have an adventure locale with lots of evil to fight or one with lots of fluffy bunnies to pet? I'll point you toward Absalom and Magnimar, though, as cities where evil is not on the rise.
|
Contributor
|
I agree with your analysis; I'm planning on houseruling some sort of magic circle against evil effect over most of the city that keeps the imps out; a few alleys or unhallowed places will represent "gaps" in the coverage where the imps can sneak in and kill you. People will be terrified to take shortcuts through town, lest they enter a "gap" zone. And it would be illegal to cast an area dispel magic in the city, for obvious reasons.
Or you could just, you know, make them into the tiny part of the city they are meant to be. :) There aren't army of them prowling around...
Evil doesn't mean stupid. Imps aren't going to go around attracting large amounts of attention to themselves, because that will get them killed. ;)
If the imps actively went around killing people the authorities would have to make the effort to get rid of them. They're described as being pests not murderers. Pests can be lived with, killers have to be dealt with and Imps are smart enough to know that.
'sides I figure an imp would rather tempt than kill, maybe set up a few souls to improve their standing back home; and they'd rather cause trouble that can't be traced back to them. Maybe increasing a feud, or spreading lies.
They're also a way for characters to make a little money at lower levels (Who ya gonna call? Impbusters!).
Exactly. Thanks Cainus. :)
Lies! Lies and slander! Such blaitant untruths you tell Mike! Imps should always be put down! How dare you defend them! Meet your fate, Oh False Bronze Dragon!
~grins~
|
Contributor
|
I actually plan on casting it not so much as an evil city, but rather as an extremely lawful city. IMC, the Academae, Hellknights, Church of Asmodeus, etc while having Evil (big E) members, are fundamentally evil (little e) organizations. That is, their Lawful tendencies outweigh their evil tendencies.
That's what I was trying to cast it as, but apparently I failed. :\
Actually. Now that I think about it, Guide to Fluffy Bunnies would be fun to write...
;)
Guide to Fluffy Bunnies?!? You are masking your evil books as childrens books to lure innocents into your evil plans! Prepare yourself, oh false Bronze Dragon!
I actually plan on casting it not so much as an evil city, but rather as an extremely lawful city. IMC, the Academae, Hellknights, Church of Asmodeus, etc while having Evil (big E) members, are fundamentally evil (little e) organizations. That is, their Lawful tendencies outweigh their evil tendencies.That's what I was trying to cast it as, but apparently I failed. :\
Eh, I don't think so. In my mind, this is more of a "can’t see the forest for the trees" kind of problem, as PCs, and by extension DMs, tend to interact more with the nefarious elements in a campaign (city, setting or otherwise) and less with the mundane.
but would you rather have an adventure locale with lots of evil to fight or one with lots of fluffy bunnies to pet?
How about ones without lame false dichotomies?
I'll point you toward Absalom and Magnimar, though, as cities where evil is not on the rise.
A much better answer!
|
Contributor
|
Eh, I don't think so. In my mind, this is more of a "can’t see the forest for the trees" kind of problem, as PCs, and by extension DMs, tend to interact more with the nefarious elements in a campaign (city, setting or otherwise) and less with the mundane.
Ah, that makes sense. :)
How about ones without lame false dichotomies?
I'll give you lame (lol!), but I'm curious about which of my dichotomies you see as false?
A much better answer!
Yay! :D
I'll give you lame (lol!), but I'm curious about which of my dichotomies you see as false?
Just my (not-very-cute) way of suggesting that maybe you should avoid making statements like this:
"would you rather have an adventure locale with lots of evil to fight or one with lots of fluffy bunnies to pet?"
That false dichotomy!
Hmm...well, this is almost certainly going to get shot down for being too political, but I suggest to anyone who has a problem picturing a Lawful Evil society and lives in the United States that they GO OUTSIDE.
I'll give you lame (lol!), but I'm curious about which of my dichotomies you see as false?Just my (not-very-cute) way of suggesting that maybe you should avoid making statements like this:
"would you rather have an adventure locale with lots of evil to fight or one with lots of fluffy bunnies to pet?"
That false dichotomy!
He has you there.
Guide to Fluffy Bunnies?!? You are masking your evil books as childrens books to lure innocents into your evil plans! Prepare yourself, oh false Bronze Dragon!I'm gunning for my own Chick Track. ;D
And here we have the newest Rock Band...
Mike McArtor and the Paizoites!!!
(~grins~ Good luck with that, Mike!)
The setup for Korvosa seems hard to get straight.From reading through your posts, I think the difficulty seems to be from a matter of hyperbole and scale. The problems you state are not as big and serious as you make them out to be. It's all a matter of perspective. :)
From the art, there are hordes of imps running around. That's a lot of winged death around the city.
And you simultaneously have hordes of imps running around the city in little gangs terrorizing people.No. There are not hordes of imps. The number of imps illustrated in all the art pieces in the Guide to Korvosa probably represent the entirety of the free-roaming imp population of the city at any one time. There aren't a lot of imps; new ones just keep showing up when others get killed.
How many imps are there, then? It sure looks like a lot of imps in the artwork, especially since the Academae is constantly summoning new ones, and as pointed out in another thread, pseudodragons are incapable of hurting them.
You have a demon-summoning school smack in the middle of town and roving bands of evil Hellknights.No. That entire sentence is incorrect. There is a devil-binding school in the middle of town.
Also, Hellknights do not rove through towns in bands. They only come into town when hired to do so.
Also, Hellknights are not evil. Like Korvosa, they are LN (with LE tendencies).
binding, summoning, what's the difference? You think they never get out of control? You're saying the Hellknights aren't evil? Why would you name yourself Hellknight and draw devils all over your armor otherwise? Don't tell me you're going for subtlety, especially since that isn't made clear anywhere in the background material, as far as I can tell. The obvious assumption is that they are devil-worshippers.
It doesn't seem to hang together quite right. What lawful city would put up with an infestation of imps?A lawful evil one. But Korvosa doesn't put up with the imps. Whenever they are found they are exterminated.
By who? Who's in charge of getting rid of the imps? Who has enough power to anyway? The pseudodragons can't, and not many people can go after DR, flying, invisible things successfully, especially if they don't want to be caught.
It ate my last post, so I'll try again.
To add something constructive, say there is a CG (NG) organization called Dead Devils that specializes in killing devils infesting the city and depositing their corpses at the gate of the Arcaneam with a cheery note. They're hated by the Arcaneam and the Hellknights, who they go out of their way to antagonize (hitting their shiny armor with paint bombs, for example). They are the ones who keep the imps under control, and have even bagged a few more serious devils as well. They are loved by the general population, but distrusted by the government and powers that be for their irreverence and independence.
|
|
Hmm...well, this is almost certainly going to get shot down for being too political, but I suggest to anyone who has a problem picturing a Lawful Evil society and lives in the United States that they GO OUTSIDE.
I live there and I must say honestly I agree. Though most will not admit to it even when they see it.
|
Hmm...well, this is almost certainly going to get shot down for being too political, but I suggest to anyone who has a problem picturing a Lawful Evil society and lives in the United States that they GO OUTSIDE.
Yeah, that's WAY too political. It's also demonstrably false. Furthermore, there are massive segments of US society and government that could easily be painted with the lawful good brush. MOST cops aren't corrupt, for instance. And the vast majority of them get into the profession to help society. That's lawful good. Even if you have no way to pay for the treatment you receive, if you go into an emergency room with traumatic injuries, American Hospitals are required by law to do everything they can to save your life. That's lawful good. When your house catches on fire, or someone kicks in your froont door with a knife, or your toddler decides the advil looks like brown M&Ms, you can call 911 and firefighetrs, paramedics, and/or police show up and HELP YOU. That's lawful good. You get put on trial for something, and you are presumed innocent under the law (yes, imperfect members of the system have caused unjust outcomes, but as the law is written, it itself is highly just). That's lawful good. A Tsunami mangles a huge swath of territory halfway around the world that's NOT loaded with natural resources and both the government and private citizens open their pocketbooks and send aid in HUGE numbers, both financially and personally. That's lawful good, if not neutral good. A power-mad dictator invades and conquers huge chunks of Europe and America mobilizes an ENTIRE GENERATION to save countries that have spit on us since. If THAT isn't lawful good, I don't know what is. My country isn't perfect, but it sure as hell isn't evil, either.
EDIT: Oh, and as the final piece of icing on the cake, whether you're from here or from a foreign country, it doesn't matter. Nobody is going to make you disappear, or, for that matter, kick in your door and gun you down, simply for speaking out against the state. That's certainly not LE...
|
|
It ate my last post, so I'll try again.
To add something constructive, say there is a CG (NG) organization called Dead Devils that specializes in killing devils infesting the city and depositing their corpses at the gate of the Arcaneam with a cheery note. They're hated by the Arcaneam and the Hellknights, who they go out of their way to antagonize (hitting their shiny armor with paint bombs, for example). They are the ones who keep the imps under control, and have even bagged a few more serious devils as well. They are loved by the general population, but distrusted by the government and powers that be for their irreverence and independence.
If you hit a Hellknight with a paint bomb, they WILL find you, and you WILL scream for DAYS before they permit you the sweet release of death. LE law enforcers are among the scariest things in existence. They have the resources of a government behind them and formal, written permission to do whatever they deem useful to keep order.
would you rather have an adventure locale with lots of evil to fight or one with lots of fluffy bunnies to pet?
It's just a bloody rabbit...
You're saying the Hellknights aren't evil? Why would you name yourself Hellknight and draw devils all over your armor otherwise? Don't tell me you're going for subtlety, especially since that isn't made clear anywhere in the background material, as far as I can tell. The obvious assumption is that they are devil-worshippers
Why do S.W.A.T. teams wear black? Why do the police (in my moderately affluent portion of the midwest) drive all black, cop-car grade, Dodge Chargers with tinted windows and engine upgrades? Heck, why do comic book vigilantes wear black?
To quote the the late Douglas Adams:
The designer had been clearly told not to beat about the bush: 'Make it evil', he'd been told, 'Make it totally clear that this gun has a right end and a wrong end. Make it totally clear to anyone standing at the wrong end that things are going badly for him. If it means sticking blackened bits of metal or prongs all over it, then so be it. This is not a gun for sticking in an umbrella stand, it's a gun for going out and making people miserable with.
|
Contributor
|
Just my (not-very-cute) way of suggesting that maybe you should avoid making statements like this:
"would you rather have an adventure locale with lots of evil to fight or one with lots of fluffy bunnies to pet?"
That false dichotomy!
I'm not sure what's wrong with my comparison, but sure. I guess I'll concede that point to you. :)
|
Contributor
|
From the art, there are hordes of imps running around. That's a lot of winged death around the city.
Well, it's possible that Andrew went just a little too crazy with the number of imps. So I guess it's possible that on occasion there is a population explosion and imps fill the sky. And then do battle with (ineffectual but no less cool-looking) psuedodragons.
How many imps are there, then? It sure looks like a lot of imps in the artwork, especially since the Academae is constantly summoning new ones, and as pointed out in another thread, pseudodragons are incapable of hurting them.
Not hordes. The artwork shows a lot of imps because the artist didn't have the luxury of reading the book before he made the art. So take it as it's meant to be: a cool picture. If there's ever discrepancy between art and text, believe the text. And if the text says imps aren't a big deal (does it? I can't remember now) then that's what is accurate. :)
binding, summoning, what's the difference? You think they never get out of control?
They go out of control on occasion. Hence, there are small groups of imps running around Korvosa causing mischief.
You're saying the Hellknights aren't evil?
Yes. I am saying that. As of the last information I was given, Hellknights are LN.
Why would you name yourself Hellknight and draw devils all over your armor otherwise?
Intimidation? People aren't going to f$$* with you if you're a Hellknight, because... Hell... Knight. Scary shit. :)
Don't tell me you're going for subtlety, especially since that isn't made clear anywhere in the background material, as far as I can tell. The obvious assumption is that they are devil-worshippers.
No subtlety here. That's not the Hellknight way. And yes, the Hellknights who still live in Cheliax probably are devil worshipers. Or, at least, they pay lip service to devils as a fellow highly lawful group.
By who? Who's in charge of getting rid of the imps? Who has enough power to anyway? The pseudodragons can't, and not many people can go after DR, flying, invisible things successfully, especially if they don't want to be caught.
My guess would be the Sable Company marines, of which there are ~200 in the city, all of whom are at least around 3rd level and many of whom are 6th level. And if the imps get really out of control (again, because the pseudodragons are ineffectual and sometimes there's a population explosion of imps... likely from a class of really bad summoners) Korvosa can just pay some Hellknights to come in and... well... wave their swords impotently. Hmm... does the Order of the Nail even HAVE ranged weapons? Well anyway, the Korvosan Guard can provide some support, but for the most part it probably falls to the Sable Company to keep the imps in line. Which they probably do pretty easily, since they have pseudodragons to hunt down the imps and point out where they are. :) And if you can't believe that, then believe that the Acadamae will probably occasionally crack down on the imps, since each imp running loose in the city is the example of one failed Acadamae student, which is an embarrassment to the school and not something it just leaves alone.
|
I live there and I must say honestly I agree. Though most will not admit to it even when they see it.Hmm...well, this is almost certainly going to get shot down for being too political, but I suggest to anyone who has a problem picturing a Lawful Evil society and lives in the United States that they GO OUTSIDE.
Ah, to live in CG times.
"Do you honestly think we seek Evil? My friend, we seek Good. It's just that our definitions don't quite match." - Rule-of-Three
|
|
I've just finished reading the City book and I have to say that i think people are not realizing that the Evil ones are just a cut of the over all populous. The reason we see this cut of life in the book is that they all, in some way or another will play a role in the AP, even if they are just minor players. Again the city is over all LN. Does this mean that good doesn't exist...No look at the Sable Company and a good number of Korvosian Gaurd.
In my humble opinion I see the KG as like the Harmonium.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
|
I've finally had the chance to read the entire book, and the "Pseudodragon vs Imp" unfair battle seems the only thing that isn't well-explained to me. Sure, if you focus on the problems exclusively, Korvosa becomes a seething cesspool of vileness - but focus on all that is evil in - say - Waterdeep, and you'll be glad for the next orc horde to burn the place down. ;)
All in all, i would call Korvosa LN with some LE tendencies due to its chelish roots. An interesting place to adventure in, for sure.
A suggestion that has been floating around the boards is to view the pseudodragons as a 'mob'-type creature, since mob attacks ignore DR. I think it's something one can picture quite well: pseudodragons swarming individual imps and ripping them to shreds.
Here's another thing to consider: Imps are cowards. Without bigger, badder creatures to push them around, they'll flee the minute the odds start turning against them.And there's a heck of a lot more Pseudodragons than Imps in the city. They watch a few of their kin get swarmed, they'll start thinking about turning tail pretty quickly.
|
|
I was thinking a statue somewhere's of (ugh!!!) a great and mighty (oh, noes!!!) werwoof killer (where's the emesis guy?) that's treated wit' alchemical silver. And pseudodragons, like other reptiles, is known, see...to need to eat some grit and gravel right to help wit' th' digestion. So, they nibble the silver, and it gets taken up by their teeth's. So NOW, they can chew on an imp.
And they keep treatin' the statue wit' alchemical silver after the pseudodragons scritch it all up like. Cos some WIZard put two and two tagedder like, and says, "hey! This'll lick our imp problem."
And they give him a key to the city. A key....that opens.....
a lock. A lock that keeps something...locked...
|
Contributor
|
The other thing I'm wondering:
Say you're an imp with DR against stuff biting ya.
If something bites ya, it still hurts, right?
I mean, a ant bites me, and it's not going to put me in the E.R. with a sucking chest wound or nothing, but it don't feel good neither.
Unless it's a fire ant...
The other thing I'm wondering:
Say you're an imp with DR against stuff biting ya.
If something bites ya, it still hurts, right?
I mean, a ant bites me, and it's not going to put me in the E.R. with a sucking chest wound or nothing, but it don't feel good neither.Unless it's a fire ant...
No, fire ants don't feel good either. :P
I said bite, not sting. I'm leavin' poison outta dis.
But, yeah. If a pseudo dragon stings your little imp self, that hurts too, right?
I don't think so. Imps are immune to poison and have fast healing.