I'm not interested in seeing Psionics in my Pathfinder. My game is core only (PHB, DMG, MM). Whilst I can throw a few unknown monsters at them, and leave some new magic items lying about, I don't think it would be fair to have a new npc-only style of magic in the game.
And i've no desire to buy an extra WotC book so that I can use all of this Paizo stuff i'm buying.
and i don't like psionics anyway...
The way I read it, and Mike is welcome to correct me, is that they don't want to make psionics a necessity. So that people who feel as you feel- don't have to have psionics if they don't want.
However still put something in place for those who would like to utilize psionics.
Psionics are in an odd place, because traditionally we think of the three Core books as being what is OGL legal (with a few exceptions that WOTC withheld).
Psionics are weird because they are OGL legal too, along with the Core. So you're going to have people asking for them, and with all due courtesy and respect to you, there are a fair number that are.
A similar discussion came up about dragonborn *IF* Paizo elects to switch to 4th Edition. The consensus from the Editors (during informal conversation at chat) was that they would probably never support a large amount of dragonborn, because it didn't fit well with the campaign setting. On the other hand, they indicated that they would stop short of saying 'they don't exist' because it's disenfranchising to someone who buys what is considered a core book and finds out that they can't use some portion of the game.
The solution, it would seem, is not to say it doesn't exist, but not to make too big a deal out of it.
Though, subjectively, I think psionics will get more of a nod than dragonborn ever will.
(And again, Paizo has not stated that they're switching to 4th edition, the example of the dragonborn was a hypothetical illustration)
I'm not interested in seeing Psionics in my Pathfinder. My game is core only (PHB, DMG, MM). Whilst I can throw a few unknown monsters at them, and leave some new magic items lying about, I don't think it would be fair to have a new npc-only style of magic in the game.
And i've no desire to buy an extra WotC book so that I can use all of this Paizo stuff i'm buying.
and i don't like psionics anyway...
Well...except for the last comment, the Psionics rules *are* Core and printed for you in the SRD. If you don't like 'em, then no worries. But no reason to buy the book if you don't want to. :)
Here's how I used the psionic races;
<lots o stuff>
Nice! Good job. Almost makes me want to add psionics.
I was running Rise of the Runelords with Hero so psionics were a real possibility. None of my players expressed any interest in psionics. In fact, I think the only magic wielding character in the entire group was one I made up for one of the players.
All but one of the players is new to Hero so they may not have known how magic or psionics work. The one player that is familiar with Hero prefers more ‘mundane’ characters.
I disagree with Windbit. I have no problem mixing magic and psionics. In fact, I like to have as many different kinds of magic as practical. I have never felt that psionics is just another name for magic. They have a very different feel for me. On the other hand, I would not allow a radiation accident in a Fantasy game. That would change the feel of the campaign.
Heyas Watcher!
The campaign setting hardcover is currently slated to have an entire spread dedicated to psionics.
Excellent! I've always like having a bit of psionics available for the game. Now, if its people coming from one of the other planets, lets just not have any of the big forehead guys from Star Trek, ok?
Dark Lurker, those are some great ideas. I've been thinking of making a connection to past or current slaves of a great aboleth culture that may still exist under the waves.
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I'm not interested in seeing Psionics in my Pathfinder.
I think you have nothing to fear, then. :)
The way I read it, and Mike is welcome to correct me, is that they don't want to make psionics a necessity. So that people who feel as you feel- don't have to have psionics if they don't want.
You're right. We're all about letting people play the kinds of campaigns they want to play in Golarion. If that means a campaign with psionics, we'll drop hints on how to do that. If that means a campaign that's core only, well obviously we support that.
If there's an aspect of the game you don't like, it's perfectly fine to say no to it in your campaign, but as a company it's in our best interest to reach out to as many gamers and game styles as possible. :)
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Excellent! I've always like having a bit of psionics available for the game. Now, if its people coming from one of the other planets, lets just not have any of the big forehead guys from Star Trek, ok?
How about a race with one half of its face painted black and the other half painted white?
Excellent! I've always like having a bit of psionics available for the game. Now, if its people coming from one of the other planets, lets just not have any of the big forehead guys from Star Trek, ok?How about a race with one half of its face painted black and the other half painted white?
No . . . we can't have any of those people!
Now, the race that has half their face painted white and the half painted black we might be able to accept.
Excellent! I've always like having a bit of psionics available for the game. Now, if its people coming from one of the other planets, lets just not have any of the big forehead guys from Star Trek, ok?How about a race with one half of its face painted black and the other half painted white?
Oh my, no! They were weanies. Now the guys with one half of the face painted white and the other half painted black would be much better.
I'm not interested in seeing Psionics in my Pathfinder.I think you have nothing to fear, then. :)
*Sigh*
How about a race with one half of its face painted black and the other half painted white?No . . . we can't have any of those people!
Now, the race that has half their face painted white and the half painted black we might be able to accept.
D'oh! How did I miss you posting that before me? Color half my face embarrassed and the other half silly.
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D'oh! How did I miss you posting that before me? Color half my face embarrassed and the other half silly.
How about a race with one half of its face painted black and the other half painted white?No . . . we can't have any of those people!
Now, the race that has half their face painted white and the half painted black we might be able to accept.
GMTA! :D
*Sigh*I'm not interested in seeing Psionics in my Pathfinder.I think you have nothing to fear, then. :)
Don't feel bad Lord Zeb...
Mike McArtor isn't saying there won't be psionic support, he's saying that it will be modular enough in presentation that GeraintElberion can ignore it if they want to.
You'll still be able to have your Psi...
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Excellent! I've always like having a bit of psionics available for the game. Now, if its people coming from one of the other planets, lets just not have any of the big forehead guys from Star Trek, ok?
How about those guys with the starey eyes and the big pulsing heads from beneath the Planet of the Apes?
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I saw Hawkwind in Manchester, I think it was the 'Space Bandits' tour, and the support act made a cracking song around the Prayer to the Warhead, from that film.
I don't know how many others got the reference, but I was chuckling my socks off, while tripping out (on a natural high).
PS: Yes, I know this brands me as a freaky old giffer, but if I can't do that here, where can I do it?
*Sigh*I'm not interested in seeing Psionics in my Pathfinder.I think you have nothing to fear, then. :)
Don't feel bad Lord Zeb...
Mike McArtor isn't saying there won't be psionic support, he's saying that it will be modular enough in presentation that GeraintElberion can ignore it if they want to.
You'll still be able to have your Psi...
Yeah, W, I know. But I was really looking forward to seeing a Psi iconic. Ah well...if not Psi, I say Hellknight!
You're right. We're all about letting people play the kinds of campaigns they want to play in Golarion. If that means a campaign with psionics, we'll drop hints on how to do that. If that means a campaign that's core only, well obviously we support that.
If there's an aspect of the game you don't like, it's perfectly fine to say no to it in your campaign, but as a company it's in our best interest to reach out to as many gamers and game styles as possible. :)
Well, if it's not a part of the APs specifically, how about some stand-alone adventures that feature psionics? The adventure could indicate how one would integrate psionics into the APs, and it would actually show psionics in Golarion.
That way, if you don't like psionics, you don't have to buy that adventure without it spoiling the APs.
For those of us DMs that rely heavily (and by that, I mean completely :-) on published adventures, we can still satisfy our psi-loving PCs (and I have one...)
Greg
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So... it looks VERY LIKELY as if there'll be a few psionic monsters for the PCs to fight at some point in Second Darkness. The Darklands is one place that these critters dwell, after all. I'm not sure yet how they'll interact with the rest of the adventure yet, and I'm 99% sure there won't be anyone with a psionic character class... but that DOES leave a 1% chance there WILL be..
So... it looks VERY LIKELY as if there'll be a few psionic monsters for the PCs to fight at some point in Second Darkness. The Darklands is one place that these critters dwell, after all. I'm not sure yet how they'll interact with the rest of the adventure yet, and I'm 99% sure there won't be anyone with a psionic character class... but that DOES leave a 1% chance there WILL be..
I luff you James! *squee*
So... it looks VERY LIKELY as if there'll be a few psionic monsters for the PCs to fight at some point in Second Darkness. The Darklands is one place that these critters dwell, after all. I'm not sure yet how they'll interact with the rest of the adventure yet, and I'm 99% sure there won't be anyone with a psionic character class... but that DOES leave a 1% chance there WILL be..
Please, include a minimum of psionics and include alternate rules in sidebars for people who don't use psionics in their games.
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Please, include a minimum of psionics and include alternate rules in sidebars for people who don't use psionics in their games.
That's the plan.
At this point, it's looking like psionics will rear its head in a few monster encoutners, in which case their psionic abilities work just like spell-like abilities for the most part. It'll be a pretty minor thing, more like an easter egg for psionic fans, and not something immense. The reason I'm hesitant to include an NPC with psionic character classes, for example, is that I'd need to figure out what to do with their huge list of powers for folk who don't use psionics. I could certainly include two versions of the same character, one a psion, one a sorcerer, but that's more or less a guaranteed waste of space in the form of one stat block, no matter WHAT version you prefer.
So yeah... it'll likely be limited to encounters with a few monsters from the SRD from the psionics section. A full-on psionics adventure it won't be.
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Well, if it's not a part of the APs specifically, how about some stand-alone adventures that feature psionics?
So yeah... it'll likely be limited to encounters with a few monsters from the SRD from the psionics section. A full-on psionics adventure it won't be.
That's why we make the modules.
Well, if it's not a part of the APs specifically, how about some stand-alone adventures that feature psionics?So yeah... it'll likely be limited to encounters with a few monsters from the SRD from the psionics section. A full-on psionics adventure it won't be.That's why we make the modules.
Cool. Although one where the BBEG is a psion would be neat, it's by no means necessary.
Thanks for responding.
Greg
Please, include a minimum of psionics and include alternate rules in sidebars for people who don't use psionics in their games.That's the plan.
At this point, it's looking like psionics will rear its head in a few monster encoutners, in which case their psionic abilities work just like spell-like abilities for the most part. It'll be a pretty minor thing, more like an easter egg for psionic fans, and not something immense. The reason I'm hesitant to include an NPC with psionic character classes, for example, is that I'd need to figure out what to do with their huge list of powers for folk who don't use psionics. I could certainly include two versions of the same character, one a psion, one a sorcerer, but that's more or less a guaranteed waste of space in the form of one stat block, no matter WHAT version you prefer.
So yeah... it'll likely be limited to encounters with a few monsters from the SRD from the psionics section. A full-on psionics adventure it won't be.
Probably a silly idea, but what about a pdf with the psionic stats of some of psionic themed creatures in some adventures. Say a Yuan-Ti Enchanter would be in the book, but if a DM had a psionic-minded party they could download the Psi-pack and then badabing badaboom you have a Yuan-Ti Telepath. You could throw other goodies in there as well (like psionic item for magic item replacement for some of the treasures), and a psionic version of one of the monsters at the end of the pathfinder books. Its a bit of extra work on your part so that is the downside, but people love extra content.
Heck you could probably charge something like a Dollar for the download, a sort of "Would you like fries with your pathfinder?"
Probably a silly idea, but what about a pdf with the psionic stats of some of psionic themed creatures in some adventures. Say a Yuan-Ti Enchanter would be in the book, but if a DM had a psionic-minded party they could download the Psi-pack and then badabing badaboom you have a Yuan-Ti Telepath. You could throw other goodies in there as well (like psionic item for magic item replacement for some of the treasures), and a psionic version of one of the monsters at the end of the pathfinder books. Its a bit of extra work on your part so that is the downside, but people love extra content.
Heck you could probably charge something like a Dollar for the download, a sort of "Would you like fries with your pathfinder?"
Great idea! Except for the yuan-ti part of it. Yuan-ti are not Open Game Content.
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Please, include a minimum of psionics and include alternate rules in sidebars for people who don't use psionics in their games.That's the plan.
That's completely unnecessary though. You can use the Psionic rules without calling them Psionic, if someone runs into a Psion or a Wilder they can just be considered a variant Wizard or Sorcerer. The PCs don't need to be able to tell the difference just "You take 4d6 fire damage" Energy Ray or Scorching Ray? Doesn't really matter.
Maybe we should just do psionic conversions and post them here....
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... Say a Yuan-Ti Enchanter would be in the book, but if a DM had a psionic-minded party they could download the Psi-pack and then badabing badaboom you have a Yuan-Ti Telepath...
Great idea! Except for the yuan-ti part of it. Yuan-ti are not Open Game Content.
How about we call the Yaun-ti a Yig-s'tl.
That's completely unnecessary though. You can use the Psionic rules without calling them Psionic, if someone runs into a Psion or a Wilder they can just be considered a variant Wizard or Sorcerer. The PCs don't need to be able to tell the difference just "You take 4d6 fire damage" Energy Ray or Scorching Ray? Doesn't really matter.
It does, though. Beside the fact that many powers don't have a direct analog, a lot of GMs aren't familiar with the Psionics rules or don't even own the XPH, meaning either a sidebar explaining their abilties or a non-psionic alternative stat block.
As for hiding it from the players, Psionics have different interactions with silence, grappling, and counterspelling than magic does.
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That's why we make the modules.
OOOOOO, does that mean you're writing a Psionics Module Mike? I would snap that up in heartbeat (irrespective of the fact I have a sub)for 2 reasons:
1. It would make a nice change, as we don't use Psionics (1 of our DM's doesn't like it... the other is running all of my Pathfinder gear).2. You would be writing it =)
C'mon you know you want to... just edit it yourself and let it on through! ;)
Probably a silly idea, but what about a pdf with the psionic stats of some of psionic themed creatures in some adventures.
This is probably the best way to handle Psionic content in Pathfinder. As James stated earlier, 2 Stat Blocks in a Pathfinder AP would take up needless space and 1 would always be useless information. A seperate "Psionics Web Enhacement" (whether it be free or purchasable I don't care) is an easy way to fix this problem. I know it is extra work for you guys, but you can just give it to Mike to do! ;)
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It does, though. Beside the fact that many powers don't have a direct analog, a lot of GMs aren't familiar with the Psionics rules or don't even own the XPH, meaning either a sidebar explaining their abilties or a non-psionic alternative stat block.
Not really, you can ignore them if you don't like Psionic rules, and the power point system is easy enough to explain, certainly as easy to explain as when they use stuff out of other 3rd party books.
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My players have characters from a couple of different settings: Iron Kingdoms, Greyhawk, Midnight, etc. And in each I always have someone asking about psionics: are they allowed in the setting? And I usually tell them that though I personally don't have a problem with my players making psionic characters, the setting itself just isn't set up for them to be in.
Then Pathfinder comes along. The question gets asked, with the PCs expecting the same response that I normally give. So imagine their surprise when I tell them that 'while psionics is not integrated into the setting, that's only because of the fact that no hard decision has been made yet and that basically if they want to make psionic characters, then by all means do so.'
The phrase "so quiet you can hear a pin drop" really does not do itself justice.
To date: I have currently in my RoftRL setup, a PC that made an elan and makes use of the ToB and the XPHB (swordsage that makes use of the pyrokineticist PrC), my own DMPC that is a multi-classed fighter (2 lvls), monk (6 lvls) and J'sevath (4 lvls of a class that combines the soulknife and warlock into an interesting psionic hybrid that I'm playtesting), and a recurring villain (another elan, no less) that has been causing my players no end of fits.
Now, I say all that to say this: I hope that support is thrown toward the inclusion of more psionic-based material being released for the setting, especially when there are nods to the C'thulu Mythos interspersed throughout your game world. My players would have raised a big stink if they had known going in (C'thulu doesn't interest many of my players) and I can't wait for them to run into the Hounds of Tindalos. I personally think that the psionic characters will be more on an even footing with the Hounds than the others but we will see.
Not really, you can ignore them if you don't like Psionic rules, and the power point system is easy enough to explain, certainly as easy to explain as when they use stuff out of other 3rd party books.
Extending a Psion's stat block with explanations of how power points work with 'Augmenting' powers. Rules text for all the powers the Psion has. Explanation for every psionic-related feat. A brief primer on what 'displays' are and how psionics interact with magic. That's a lot of rules text.
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OOOOOO, does that mean you're writing a Psionics Module Mike?
No. ;)
2. You would be writing it =)
I like that reason as well. ;D
Although it's not psionic, I will point out that I am writing an adventure.
C'mon you know you want to... just edit it yourself and let it on through! ;)
That would go over well, I'm sure. ;D
I know it is extra work for you guys, but you can just give it to Mike to do! ;)
Oh yes. I've got loads of time. ;)