A History of Ashes (GM Reference)


Curse of the Crimson Throne

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Ah looking over those I remembered that I do the ability scores differently for major NPCs.

My PCs rolled their stats and of course have well above average stats across the board. So for major NPCs (such as say Lady Andaisan, Vencarlo, or Jabbyr) I roll their stats as well and make adjustments to fit with the listed NPC; otherwise my PCs will walk all over them (and still do...damned Paladin and her smite evil!) For instance, Jabbyr had some huge boosts to Str and Con but took some major hits to his mental stats. So my NPCs for the most part probably would be too tough for most other games.

Also, unlike Steve42, I try to keep the CR the same. Which means that NPCs with class levels end up getting an extra class level in the conversion. i.e. a 10th lvl cleric in 3.5 was a CR 10, but to make her CR 10 in Pathfinder she would need to be an 11th lvl cleric, so I give her the extra level.

I can still post builds if anyone wants though.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Father Dale wrote:

Ah looking over those I remembered that I do the ability scores differently for major NPCs.

My PCs rolled their stats and of course have well above average stats across the board. So for major NPCs (such as say Lady Andaisan, Vencarlo, or Jabbyr) I roll their stats as well and make adjustments to fit with the listed NPC; otherwise my PCs will walk all over them (and still do...damned Paladin and her smite evil!) For instance, Jabbyr had some huge boosts to Str and Con but took some major hits to his mental stats. So my NPCs for the most part probably would be too tough for most other games.

Also, unlike Steve42, I try to keep the CR the same. Which means that NPCs with class levels end up getting an extra class level in the conversion. i.e. a 10th lvl cleric in 3.5 was a CR 10, but to make her CR 10 in Pathfinder she would need to be an 11th lvl cleric, so I give her the extra level.

I can still post builds if anyone wants though.

More diversity to choose from is always nice. I let my players build their characters with 20 points, so my NPC's all got upgraded, too. It'd be interesting how yours look different. :)


Here's a couple of my NPCs from History of Ashes. I'll post more as I find the time.

Krojun Eats-What-He-Kills

The Cinderlander


Father Dale wrote:

Here's a couple of my NPCs from History of Ashes. I'll post more as I find the time.

Krojun Eats-What-He-Kills

The Cinderlander

Awesome! Those are getting used. Very cool.


Ice Titan wrote:
Father Dale wrote:

Here's a couple of my NPCs from History of Ashes. I'll post more as I find the time.

Krojun Eats-What-He-Kills

The Cinderlander

Awesome! Those are getting used. Very cool.

Great Post, just out of curiosity where did the "Conversion PC's are ranked one level lower" come from?


walter mcwilliams wrote:

Great Post, just out of curiosity where did the "Conversion PC's are ranked one level lower" come from?

Page 398 of the Core Rulebook, under "Adding NPCs." Creatures who only have class levels but no racial Hit Dice are CR equal to class level minus one. Creatures who only have NPC class levels and no racial hit dice have CR equal to npc class levels minus 2.

Some creatures that have no racial Hit Dice are a little stronger and have a higher CR, but this will be noted in their entry. The Drow Noble is one example, whose CR is equal to its class level.

Creatures who have racial hit dice and class levels use a different formula for determining CR. This can be found in the section of the bestiary about advancing monsters by adding class levels.

I put up Shadowcount Sial and Asyra as well. I'm going to try and put more up tonight.

Any suggestions on how to put the characters up better? Google Doc's mangles it all up, and if I just copy and paste from microsoft word it takes a lot of formatting to get it right. Theres got to be an easier way to do this.


OK I finally got all of the NPC and monster conversions posted for A History of Ashes. I'll just post the link to the general conversions page:

Father Dale's Conversions Page

Feel free to comment on any of the pages there or here.

I'm going to begin work on the next chapter: Skeletons of Scarwall. I'll post those as I make them. I'll also try to go back and post other NPCs from the earlier modules.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I may be looking at it in the wrong way, but there seems awfully little treasure for the party in this module. Is this intentional?


magnuskn wrote:
I may be looking at it in the wrong way, but there seems awfully little treasure for the party in this module. Is this intentional?

Level 10 to 11. Yeah. Scarwall begins at 12. Annoying.

For a four-person party, about 20,000 each.

145836 in wealth if the party doesn't sell anything. So about 36459 per person in pure wealth, or 18229 in cash if they sell everything. Generally, directly on track.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Ice Titan wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
I may be looking at it in the wrong way, but there seems awfully little treasure for the party in this module. Is this intentional?

Level 10 to 11. Yeah. Scarwall begins at 12. Annoying.

For a four-person party, about 20,000 each.

145836 in wealth if the party doesn't sell anything. So about 36459 per person in pure wealth, or 18229 in cash if they sell everything. Generally, directly on track.

Well, I have a five person party and I was looking at the Pathfinder progression, which gives people going from 10th to 12th level 46.000 GP each.

But then I checked Skeletons of Scarwall, and boy, does it make ever up for what is not in AHoA. :p


magnuskn wrote:
Ice Titan wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
I may be looking at it in the wrong way, but there seems awfully little treasure for the party in this module. Is this intentional?

Level 10 to 11. Yeah. Scarwall begins at 12. Annoying.

For a four-person party, about 20,000 each.

145836 in wealth if the party doesn't sell anything. So about 36459 per person in pure wealth, or 18229 in cash if they sell everything. Generally, directly on track.

Well, I have a five person party and I was looking at the Pathfinder progression, which gives people going from 10th to 12th level 46.000 GP each.

But then I checked Skeletons of Scarwall, and boy, does it make ever up for what is not in AHoA. :p

Just remember, HoA is only 10 to 11, like I said. Scarwall starts at 12, while HoA ends at 11. I don't know why they did this.

Spoiler:
The finale itself feels really cheap compared to the huge build up they give it with the big sections on each group earlier in the module-- I feel that they ran out of space.

Oh, yeah. Scarwall is full of cool stuff. I'm excited for my PCs to start exploring it next session.


Ice Titan wrote:


Just remember, HoA is only 10 to 11, like I said. Scarwall starts at 12, while HoA ends at 11. I don't know why they did this.

So it doesn't have enough XP for a 10th level character to reach 12th level?

(never got this far in my CotCT campaign due to real-life happening; shame too, the players were really getting into the story.. one had just broken out of Castle Korvosa after having attempted to become a Gray Maiden, while the others were looking for ways to blow up House Arkona's main warehouse)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Ice Titan wrote:
Just remember, HoA is only 10 to 11, like I said. Scarwall starts at 12, while HoA ends at 11. I don't know why they did this.

History of Ashes is actually supposed to take you all the way through 11th level. You should reach 12th level at the end of the adventure. Maybe even just before the end. Maybe just AFTER the end.

In other words, HoA is for 10th and 11th level play, not 10th TO 11th level play.


James Jacobs wrote:
Ice Titan wrote:
Just remember, HoA is only 10 to 11, like I said. Scarwall starts at 12, while HoA ends at 11. I don't know why they did this.

History of Ashes is actually supposed to take you all the way through 11th level. You should reach 12th level at the end of the adventure. Maybe even just before the end. Maybe just AFTER the end.

In other words, HoA is for 10th and 11th level play, not 10th TO 11th level play.

Really? It reminded me of Children of the Void when I read through it-- there's about 52000xp in the adventure, which even on fast is only enough to get you halfway to 12th from the top of 10th. (123800 total)

That and the inner cover I guess like deceived me. Hm.

Quote:


“A History of Ashes” is a Pathfinder Adventure Path scenario designed for four 10th-level characters. By the end of this adventure, characters should reach 11th level.
Quote:


“Skeletons of Scarwall” is a Pathfinder Adventure Path scenario designed for four 12th-level characters, etc.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Ice Titan wrote:
Really? It reminded me of Children of the Void when I read through it-- there's about 52000xp in the adventure, which even on fast is enough to get you halfway to 12th from 10th. (123800 total)

There may indeed be an XP gap in there. It wouldn't surprise me, honestly, since History of Ashes is relatively inefficient at presenting encounters and such.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well, at least I'll know what to be careful about, then: Give the players enough bonus XP for the completed tasks to level appropiately.


Or throw in some random encounters from the table on page 81. There should be plenty of opportunities for such encounters during this adventure (at least if the players go for regular travel).


Are wrote:

Or throw in some random encounters from the table on page 81. There should be plenty of opportunities for such encounters during this adventure (at least if the players go for regular travel).

I stopped doing that when I realized that the party can take everything above 56 on that list in one round or less. I rolled a cindersnake. It disappointed me (bite +2 vs. a level 10 meleeist cleric in magically enchanted armor).

Also, to be honest... random encounters feel kind of like time wasters. Filler, so to speak. Random encounters, are like swooping aerial shots during movies; they establish the theme and setting of the scene and location. Unlike swooping aerial shots, random encounters tend to last longer than thirty seconds.


I'm just coming to the end of the HoA chapter with my PCs. They had just hit 10th level when they came into the Kallow Mounds. They will likely be about 1/4th of the way into 11th level at the end of the Module.

I'm using the PF rules and the medium XP progression. I've also bumped up some of the encounters, so they are getting extra XP. And I've thrown in a fair number of random encounters, some stronger than others, since they've been travelling the Cinderlands on foot or horseback the whole time.

I'd also note that the party was 9th level at the end of Escape from Old Korvosa and not 10th. Although they did miss a few chances to gain XP, and they didn't explore the Arkona mansion itself, or attempt to take on Bahor or any of the other raksashas up above. So I ended up throwing a few planned encounters against them on their travels from Korvosa through Kaer Maga and into the Cinderlands. (Rolth made an appearance with a pair of Flesh Golems, and he got away from them yet again; they hate that guy.)

I imagine I'll add some encounters as they travel from the Flameford through the hold of Belkzen to Scarwall, as they won't have teleportation or party flying abilities. That will get them to 12th by the time they get to Scarwall. Maybe they'll encounter an orc warband of about 50 orcs with some orc captains along the way; that always makes for some fun times where the fighters can slash away to their hearts content.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Father Dale wrote:

I'm just coming to the end of the HoA chapter with my PCs. They had just hit 10th level when they came into the Kallow Mounds. They will likely be about 1/4th of the way into 11th level at the end of the Module.

I'm using the PF rules and the medium XP progression. I've also bumped up some of the encounters, so they are getting extra XP. And I've thrown in a fair number of random encounters, some stronger than others, since they've been travelling the Cinderlands on foot or horseback the whole time.

I think the medium progression may be your problem. I'm using the fast progression and that is working out excellently so far. I've got five players, mind you, so the XP split is greater than with the archetypal four players. So it's a happy medium between maybe too many XP because of the fast progression and too few because of the medium progression.


magnuskn wrote:


I think the medium progression may be your problem. I'm using the fast progression and that is working out excellently so far. I've got five players, mind you, so the XP split is greater than with the archetypal four players. So it's a happy medium between maybe too many XP because of the fast progression and too few because of the medium progression.

I've usually got five PCs as well, but I've been giving them the XP from the 4-5 party split table, which is calculated as total XP/4, so they've been getting a little bit extra. I used the medium progression because my understanding was that the medium was based on the same progression as 3.5 used, which is roughly one level for every 13 party-CR encounters. (i.e. a 10th lvl party should level after 13 10th lvl encounters.) Most of the time this has kept pace properly, but there were a couple places where I've added encounters or random encounters to keep the PCs on level.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Ice Titan wrote:
Are wrote:

Or throw in some random encounters from the table on page 81. There should be plenty of opportunities for such encounters during this adventure (at least if the players go for regular travel).

I stopped doing that when I realized that the party can take everything above 56 on that list in one round or less. I rolled a cindersnake. It disappointed me (bite +2 vs. a level 10 meleeist cleric in magically enchanted armor).

Also, to be honest... random encounters feel kind of like time wasters. Filler, so to speak. Random encounters, are like swooping aerial shots during movies; they establish the theme and setting of the scene and location. Unlike swooping aerial shots, random encounters tend to last longer than thirty seconds.

I can understand the disappointment there, but at the same time it can be quite fun for PCs to be attacked by monsters that are woefully unable to hurt them. If the only fights a group ever gets in are edge-of-the-seat, anyone-can-die conflicts, then every battle starts feeling the same and the PCs never actually feel like they're getting more powerful. By letting PCs fight foes that, at one point, would have threatened them, but now they can smack them around with ease, the PCs get to feel higher level and thus feel like they're growing into something more than 1st level characters who have to worry about death around every corner.

Liberty's Edge

Father Dale wrote:
magnuskn wrote:


I think the medium progression may be your problem. I'm using the fast progression and that is working out excellently so far. I've got five players, mind you, so the XP split is greater than with the archetypal four players. So it's a happy medium between maybe too many XP because of the fast progression and too few because of the medium progression.

I've usually got five PCs as well, but I've been giving them the XP from the 4-5 party split table, which is calculated as total XP/4, so they've been getting a little bit extra. I used the medium progression because my understanding was that the medium was based on the same progression as 3.5 used, which is roughly one level for every 13 party-CR encounters. (i.e. a 10th lvl party should level after 13 10th lvl encounters.) Most of the time this has kept pace properly, but there were a couple places where I've added encounters or random encounters to keep the PCs on level.

They have stated in other places in the forums, no I do not have links, that any AP's not specifically designed for PFRPG assume fast advancement.

Graywulfe

Paizo Employee Creative Director

magnuskn wrote:
I think the medium progression may be your problem. I'm using the fast progression and that is working out excellently so far. I've got five players, mind you, so the XP split is greater than with the archetypal four players. So it's a happy medium between maybe too many XP because of the fast progression and too few because of the medium progression.

This is absolutely the problem.

Our first four Adventure Paths (including Curse of the Crimson Throne) were built using the 3.5 rules, and the experience progression in those rules was much closer to Pathfinder's fast XP track than its medium XP track.

If you use the medium or slow XP track for these APs, your PCs will gain XP more slowly than the adventures expect them to. The solution is to either use the fast track, or to add more encounters.

You could, I guess, just increase the XP awards, but that's the same basic effect as just using the fast XP track but with a lot more work.


Father Dale wrote:
I used the medium progression because my understanding was that the medium was based on the same progression as 3.5 used, which is roughly one level for every 13 party-CR encounters.

Medium is one level per 20 CR=APL encounters. Fast is 13, and Slow is 30.


James Jacobs wrote:
Ice Titan wrote:
Are wrote:

Or throw in some random encounters from the table on page 81. There should be plenty of opportunities for such encounters during this adventure (at least if the players go for regular travel).

I stopped doing that when I realized that the party can take everything above 56 on that list in one round or less. I rolled a cindersnake. It disappointed me (bite +2 vs. a level 10 meleeist cleric in magically enchanted armor).

Also, to be honest... random encounters feel kind of like time wasters. Filler, so to speak. Random encounters, are like swooping aerial shots during movies; they establish the theme and setting of the scene and location. Unlike swooping aerial shots, random encounters tend to last longer than thirty seconds.

I can understand the disappointment there, but at the same time it can be quite fun for PCs to be attacked by monsters that are woefully unable to hurt them. If the only fights a group ever gets in are edge-of-the-seat, anyone-can-die conflicts, then every battle starts feeling the same and the PCs never actually feel like they're getting more powerful. By letting PCs fight foes that, at one point, would have threatened them, but now they can smack them around with ease, the PCs get to feel higher level and thus feel like they're growing into something more than 1st level characters who have to worry about death around every corner.

That's true. I had the PCs encounter a band of hobgoblins and a pack of cinderwolves-- immediately, haste, divine power, serious battle preparation and then when all of the monsters were dead before their next turn, disappointment. The disappointment had me scrap most of my random encounters after that.

Maybe I'll have them fight like 40 orcs or something insane for a random encounter to see how they handle it. :P At least that won't be over as fast.


hogarth wrote:
Father Dale wrote:
I used the medium progression because my understanding was that the medium was based on the same progression as 3.5 used, which is roughly one level for every 13 party-CR encounters.
Medium is one level per 20 CR=APL encounters. Fast is 13, and Slow is 30.

Ahh, I was under the impression that the medium progression was using the '13' instead.

Oh well, I'm almost 2/3rds of the way through the adventure path now. I'll just stick with it and keep throwing extra encounters at them to keep them at pace. They tend to handle high level challenges well anyways.


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A quick note...

The monk in my party, at the end of 7DttG, had the Sczarni pay him back for saving the Varisians in Trail's End by giving him a tattoo that crosses his body like a bandolier.

In HoA, there is a potent magical item that also comes with a crippling curse... -6 on will saves when you view Thassilonian runes.

Varisian tattoos are commonly strings of Thassilonian runes.

My bard has a permanent -6 on will saves because the monk wears his coat open.

DMs beware. :P

Liberty's Edge

Whenever we run a 3.5 game using Pathfinder rules such as RotR or CotCT we just use the 3.5 xp track.


Ice Titan wrote:

A quick note...

The monk in my party, at the end of 7DttG, had the Sczarni pay him back for saving the Varisians in Trail's End by giving him a tattoo that crosses his body like a bandolier.

In HoA, there is a potent magical item that also comes with a crippling curse... -6 on will saves when you view Thassilonian runes.

Varisian tattoos are commonly strings of Thassilonian runes.

My bard has a permanent -6 on will saves because the monk wears his coat open.

DMs beware. :P

Don't forget, that thing also causes 1 pt of Wisdom damage each day to its possessor.

Scarab Sages

At which encounter should the party be at level 11?
The totems? or the camp?


I'm running History of Ashes now, and I've been awarding "benchmark" levels rather than tracking XP. I just advanced my party to level 11 and they're about to hit the Acropolis.

However, I've been harassing them their entire trek since they left Harse. They've been rightly paranoid since leaving Korvosa, and I'm giving them more interactions with the various factions to liven up the story and feed their fears. Cinnabar sent assassins so shadow them in Kaer Maga when they were resupplying before hitting the Cinderlands, and the party rogue turned the tables on them and shadowed the assassin while he met with the Cinderlander to hire him. Unfortunately for the rogue, the Cinderlander's perception beat his stealth and he got spotted.

History of Ashes sets up all these great players then does almost nothing with them until the final battle, and I felt that was a shame. So, I harass the PCs with random encounters in the Cinderlands, and every morning a scrying sensor shows up to follow them. Sometimes they dispel it, some times they fail. After a particularly unlucky encounter with some Stone Giants, the party was badly hurt and stopped to rest, and it happened they did not dispel the scrying sensor that day.

I had one of the gargoyles do a fly-by scouting later when they were setting up camp, and they failed to notice it, and the Cinderlander and 2 mantis crept in past their watch and ambushed them. 2 party members nearly died in the first round, but they chased them off with fear effects. Still, the message was sent, and my party is even more paranoid now.


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Just yesterday, my old-school party (Dw Fighter, Hmn Cleric, Gnm Ilusionist, Dw Rouge) deal with Cindermaw. *#^@yeah. It was, pretty epic. No more, no less. First rounds - Beast toying around with party, after that fighter was eaten and we start split-screen scene.
One side of table - Dwarv inside the beast who try to cut out by his Bulette-tooth-own-made dagger. Aye, Protection from energy/Resist Energy work pretty fine for heat and "inside fire" but for bludgeoining ah...it was only cleric Shield Other what save him from from beign consumed (I choose to deal full amount of dmg each round he was inside Clan Eater).
And the other side of table - rest of party try to keep worm at surface. Almost like duck-bait running away from big, fire-infused pac man. Yelling, shooting, spellcasting, getting aggro - then runing via Fly/Air Walk. And "To Victory" from 300 playing at background ^^ Iconic moment.
No Hold Monster, no cheating, No false image. And hell yeah - they beat it ^^ And this is 10 lvl party (PFR medium xp track). That's how we do it at midlle-east europe ^^ Grtz from Poland.


I cannot find anywhere how much damage an Emberstorm does if players are caught in it.

Dark Archive

Does the Eternal Glyph trap in area A7 trigger when you attempt the "Decipher Script" (Linguistics) check or does it trigger only when you succeed at the check and can understand Thassilonian?

Dark Archive

Aviel wrote:
I cannot find anywhere how much damage an Emberstorm does if players are caught in it.

1d3 points of nonlethal plus 1 point of fire damage per hour of exposure.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
ThedreadedSoole wrote:
Does the Eternal Glyph trap in area A7 trigger when you attempt the "Decipher Script" (Linguistics) check or does it trigger only when you succeed at the check and can understand Thassilonian?

The way the trap is explained suggests that you understand the language, so the trap only triggers when you succeed the Linguistics check or use a spell like comprehend languages. Of course you could describe the writing in such a way that you make the PCs curious enough to have them use their skill or spell.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Can anyone help clarify for me how old Cindermaw is? I see things like 'creature of legend' and 'ate a Thassilonian portal of elemental fire'. Could I assume Cindermaw dates to Thassilonian times, since he ate functioning Thassilonian magic, or are there other markers to help a DM aim for at least the right era?


So I was rereading this chapter today and noticed regarding the Havero and Noise Points.

Using a sonic effect - 10 points per effect

Now my group has a Bard and have become quite fond of Discordant Voice, would this add 10 points per melee attack they land with the sonic damage bonus or is this aimed more at spells and abilities with the sonic descriptor?


In PZO1021 pg 240 Cinnabar's.... I've tried to build this NPC from scratch. I think the skill total are wrong. I've tried both with and without applying the three spells indicated in the "Before Combat" section, and both with and without applying the Armor Check penalty from her armor. No combination ads up correctly.

If applying both the Armor Check penalty and the three spells, then we need 2 more skill points to get the published totals in the stat block. But I don't think the spells should apply because that makes her hit point total wrong. Without the CON boost her hit point total is correct, so I would see this as evidence that the three prep spells should not be already factored into the stat block as it is published.

However, if not applying the Armor Check penalty or the three spells, we need 3 more skill points to get the totals shown in the stat block.

And if only applying the Armor Check penalty, then to get those totals for skills then 9 more skill points are needed.

I was under the impression that a stat block should already include standard armor and weapons, but not any effects specified in in the "Before Combat" section ules it specificaly says "(already factored in the stat block)" or soethng like that.

So if Cinnabar is caught by surprise, just woke up with no time to put on armor of cast prep spells, what should her skills be? And do the ranks add up correctly?


So I tried again. The best I can figure is that the spells in the "Before Combat" section are already applied and the starting base stats are lower. So starting with a 20 point buy (instead of rolled) 14,15,14,10,8,14. +2 dex (human) +1 str/dex/con (levels) +4 str/con/dex (spells) = 18,24,18,10,8,14. Anomalies: 1) Skills come out exactly except there is 1 unspent skill point. 2) fort, cmd and init are +2 higher than in the stat block. [ Could it be that transferring the NPC to the publication that someone misread a written numeral 4 for a 1? ]

Next issue: Weapon damage seems wrong. +4 (str) +2 (weapon spec) +2 (greater weapon spec) +1 (magic) = 9. Stat block shows +11. Could it be automatically applying +2 (favored enemy) even though it's unlikey that all enemies are human? Or what am I missing?


I brought up the "official" Hero Labs version of Cinnabar (so I paid for the package) and here we go:
- The stat block as shown included Cat's Grace, Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, and Fly
- Her ability score enhancements for levels were +1 Dex at 4th, +1 Con at 8th, and +1 Dex at 12th
- This makes her original stats 14, 15, 13, 10, 8, 14, which makes her a 15-point build if you choose Strength as her bonus ability score, which is what Hero labs did.
- She took Rogue as her favored class and +1 hit point per rogue level, so no bonus skill points at all from class levels

There are two anomalies, as you noted:
- Her damage is 2 higher than it should be. Hero Labs lists it as 1d8+9
- Her Fly skill is 2 higher than it should be. Hero Labs lists it as +10

So yep, they just messed up a little. You'll find it remarkably common. Usually it's a few unused skill points, or some fudging of the hit points. A random +2 to weapon damage is something I've seen, but not very often.


For the record, in every area I prep in every AP I run, I find at least one such "anomaly", and frequently two or three. My feeling is "meh"; the bad guys are so unusually-built that a few extra or missing points here or there really isn't going to change anything.

The Red Mantis assassins are a great example: During the rebuild from 3.5 to Pathfinder, couldn't an organization entirely dedicated to flanking assassins train its members in some flanking feats? Outflank or Gang Up or something instead of Toughness or Two-Weapon Defense or Alertness?


NobodysHome wrote:

I brought up the "official" Hero Labs version of Cinnabar (so I paid for the package) and here we go:

- This makes her original stats 14, 15, 13, 10, 8, 14, which makes her a 15-point build if you choose Strength as her bonus ability score, which is what Hero labs did.

14,13,13,10,8,14 is 14-points but the extra point could be resolved by choosing 9 WIS at the start which would be no effect until middle age.

So next rebuild: 15-point buy: 14,13,13,10,9,14 +2 dex (human) +2 dex/+1 con +4 (spells) = 18,21,18,10,9,14. Good. Build with 4 rogue first, then 2 ranger, then 7 RMA. HP base = 8,4,5,4,6,5,5,4,5,4,5,4,5 = 64 +26 (con base) +4 (favored class) +13 (toughness) +26 (bear's endurance) = 133. Good. [Note NPCs without racial HD get full HP on 1st lvl and avg (round down) for other lvls]. 13 ranks in acrobatics, bluff, disguise, intimidate, perception, stealth, and survival making those exactly match the stat block and leaving only 8 ranks to resolve fly (5 ranks needed) and sense motive (8 ranks needed) to resolve. So it's 5 ranks short and the 8 ranks are distributed in 2 ranks each in the 4 rogue levels; so only 4 can be put in each skill since you can't apply two skill ranks in the same skill in the same class level. How did Hero Lab resolve the skill points?


mjmeans wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

I brought up the "official" Hero Labs version of Cinnabar (so I paid for the package) and here we go:

- This makes her original stats 14, 15, 13, 10, 8, 14, which makes her a 15-point build if you choose Strength as her bonus ability score, which is what Hero labs did.

14,13,13,10,8,14 is 14-points but the extra point could be resolved by choosing 9 WIS at the start which would be no effect until middle age...

So next rebuild: 15-point buy: 14,13,13,10,9,14 +2 dex (human) +2 dex/+1 con +4 (spells)

So step 1: Use Strength as her human characteristic.

mjmeans wrote:
so only 4 can be put in each skill since you can't apply two skill ranks in the same skill in the same class level

That's got to be a house rule of yours; I've never heard of any such thing. Even then, it doesn't matter mathematically unless you're also requiring NPCs to only take ranks in class skills, which would be another house rule.

Here's the PRD on increasing skill ranks, and neither of those restrictions are shown.


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Does Cinnabar uses second weapon/shield? With 18 Strength, the 2-point damage difference could be result of wielding the weapon in two hands.

Does the listed Fly skill includes 1/2 caster bonus to Fly checks?


Drejk wrote:

Does Cinnabar uses second weapon/shield? With 18 Strength, the 2-point damage difference could be result of wielding the weapon in two hands.

Does the listed Fly skill includes 1/2 caster bonus to Fly checks?

As to the first, she's dual-wielding, and Hero Labs is set for that. So good guess, but unfortunately no; I really think it's an error.

I'll have to check whether Hero Labs took the caster bonus into account; I'm at work at the moment. My guess is that it did, since I clicked the little checkbox that said, "I have cast Fly on myself", but I didn't check the caster level that Hero Labs had it configured for, so that's an excellent lead.


Entertainingly enough, I've found the answer to the damage, but not the Fly skill:

PRD wrote:

Arcane Strike: You draw upon your arcane power to enhance your weapons with magical energy.

Prerequisite: Ability to cast arcane spells.

Benefit: As a swift action, you can imbue your weapons with a fraction of your power. For 1 round, your weapons deal +1 damage and are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. For every five caster levels you possess, this bonus increases by +1, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.

I checked all the other Red Mantis assassins, and they have Arcane Strike active. So I activated it on Cinnabar and got the mysterious 1d8+11.

Still haven't figured out the Fly yet... the caster level's set correctly in Hero Labs.

EDIT: And for mjmeans, the skill ranks you listed are correct:
- Acrobatics 13
- Bluff 13
- Disguise 13
- Intimidate 13
- Sense Motive 8
- Stealth 13
- Survival 13

She has no ranks in Fly; she gets that ability naturally from the Fly spell.

EDIT 2: And I think I've solved the mystery on Fly, too: She has an armor check penalty of -2. Fly is a skill to which armor check penalty applies. The author probably neglected to apply armor check penalty to the skill.


NobodysHome wrote:
mjmeans wrote:
so only 4 can be put in each skill since you can't apply two skill ranks in the same skill in the same class level

That's got to be a house rule of yours; I've never heard of any such thing. Even then, it doesn't matter mathematically unless you're also requiring NPCs to only take ranks in class skills, which would be another house rule.

Here's the PRD on increasing skill ranks, and neither of those restrictions are shown.

Ah, I've been corrected by a kind soul. Those were old 3.5 restrictions (never played it). They don't exist in Pathfinder, so you'll find many more such stat blocks, I'm afraid.


Thanks! I think that solves it. Now I can take away the buffs when she is surprised in her bed!

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