Hopefully others can use this thread to clarify questions arising in this adventure. If you happen to see another thread, please link post a link in this one to try and keep things tied together.
Chapter 1: Edge of Anarchy
Chapter 2: Seven Days to the Grave
Chapter 3: Escape from Old Korvosa
Chapter 4: A History of Ashes
Chapter 5: Skeletons of Scarwall
Chapter 6: Crown of Fangs
Seems as if the pages have moved. Here's the revised listing.
Chapter 1: Edge of Anarchy
Chapter 2: Seven Days to the Grave
Chapter 3: Escape from Old Korvosa
Chapter 4: A History of Ashes
Chapter 5: Skeletons of Scarwall
Chapter 6: Crown of Fangs
First question is quite possibly a stupid one, as I can't seem to find the reference for it, and I'm sure I'm just blind. :P What is the recommended starting level of the PCs for HoA? Also, where is this information listed?
(Edit: Found it when reading James's forward, it's 10th. But if there's a place where it's regularly put, that'd be great...I can be a bit stingy with XP awards during APs, since we normally have sidetreks between chapters. I want to make sure the PCs are up to snuff for the chapter beforehand, tho...)
It should be on the back cover. I wish I had my PDF to look...
It should be on the back cover. I wish I had my PDF to look...
Bingo! Thanks, Rauol!
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First question is quite possibly a stupid one, as I can't seem to find the reference for it, and I'm sure I'm just blind. :P What is the recommended starting level of the PCs for HoA? Also, where is this information listed?
(Edit: Found it when reading James's forward, it's 10th. But if there's a place where it's regularly put, that'd be great...I can be a bit stingy with XP awards during APs, since we normally have sidetreks between chapters. I want to make sure the PCs are up to snuff for the chapter beforehand, tho...)
It's also in the small print in the lower quarter of page 4 (credits).
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Cindermaw doesn't appear to have details for swallow whole (no stomach damage, no hp for cutting your way out), is it just the same as a standard purple worm plus the extra d6 fire damage? Also Cinnabar's tactics mention turning her sawtooth sabre into a mantis claw and using stunning fist, I've no idea how she does either of these things, are these tactics from an earlier build or am I missing something?
Also Cinnabar's tactics mention turning her sawtooth sabre into a mantis claw and using stunning fist, I've no idea how she does either of these things, are these tactics from an earlier build or am I missing something?
It does appear that Cinnabar's tactics refer to a previous incarnation of Red Mantis Assassin; reference is made to her fade ability, which she doesn't get for another two levels.
Why is the Arkona entry skulled-out on the inside front cover? With the way the previous adventure was set up, I'd say the odds are better than even that the PCs would kill no more than one of them, and might never even learn they were rakshashas.
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Why is the Arkona entry skulled-out on the inside front cover? With the way the previous adventure was set up, I'd say the odds are better than even that the PCs would kill no more than one of them, and might never even learn they were rakshashas.
PCs are notoriously completist when it comes to raiding the lairs of bad guys. I read the bit about the vault just this morning; if they're not physically slain to the last, the family's finished if their ledgers of criminal activities are found and shared with the authorities (such as they are at this point in Korvosa). When one of the big bads is slain, he or she will assume beastie-head form. That's a siren-song of, "We're evil, deceptive, otherworldly baddies. Smite us."
Safe assumption to give them the bloody skull treatment on the personalities page, I'd say.
Creative Director
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In the cinderlands section, it says akyrak see page 80. No akyrak in bestiary. They sound cool, so will they be in pathfinder on a later date?
Damn.
The akyrak was cut at the last minute for 2 reasons: we needed the space, and it was a sort of underwhelming monster in the end anyway. Best change for the akyrak is to just say it's the Shoanti word for dire bear.
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Creative Director
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Cindermaw doesn't appear to have details for swallow whole (no stomach damage, no hp for cutting your way out), is it just the same as a standard purple worm plus the extra d6 fire damage? Also Cinnabar's tactics mention turning her sawtooth sabre into a mantis claw and using stunning fist, I've no idea how she does either of these things, are these tactics from an earlier build or am I missing something?
Yup; standard purple worm plus the extra d6 fire damage.
And ignore that bit about Cinnabar doing that; she had a weirdo ability we cut because it was stupid, then missed a remnant of it in her tactics section. (Yeah... we had a few late changes to the Red mantis prestige class that caused a little bit of weird echoes to manifest in her tactics...)
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Creative Director
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Why is the Arkona entry skulled-out on the inside front cover? With the way the previous adventure was set up, I'd say the odds are better than even that the PCs would kill no more than one of them, and might never even learn they were rakshashas.
Yup. It's basically safe to assume that whenever the PCs get involved, they'll not leave things be. There's PLENTY of chances for the PCs to ruin the Arkonas, either by killing them, exposing them as rakshasas, or more to the point, getting ahold of a lot of the incriminating evidence therein. Any of those things are good enough to cripple or destroy the Arkonas, and that's why we skulled them out. They CERTAINLY don't have anything more going on in the campaign.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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A few minor contradictions:
* storm rocs are described as uncontested apex predators in their entry, but in the wyvern entry the wyverns are mentioned as contesting for food with the rocs - successfully. To me, this makes them contested apex predators :) Not really too significant.
Edit: didn't say it, so I'll add it - I'm not expecting the wyverns are prey themselves, due to their poison and other factors. Wouldn't expect CR 9 predators to view CR 6 predators as lunch.
* Under the ecology of the cinderlands, it is mentioned that all Shoanti quahs need to pass the burning run to become members of the tribe. This isn't true (each quah has their own trial, only the Sun tribe does the burning run), so be careful not to say such to your players.
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Ahh, I knew there was something other than Cindermaw that bothered me, was just prepping my Harrow handout:
"Spend a Harrow Point to gain a +5 bonus on all melee or natural weapons for the duration of one combat."
Is this bonus to hit or damage? I assume it isn't to both? Is it typed? I was going to change this to say it's an untyped bonus to hit, but I just wanted to double check that was correct :).
In the Akropolis of the Thrallkeeper there are some points:
- in the description of the Havero tentacles it says: "Although the havero itself is fantastically intelligent,..." In the monster section (p.86) however it is listed as fantatically stupid: INT 5 that is (or was it meant fantastically wise?)
- if the PCs are attacked by the tentacles, it is quite likely that the noise points will rise to 40 or 50 and there it states "..as long as the noise point total remains at 50 or higher". Combat necessarily increases the noise point tally, is it the intention that the PCs have to retreat, once the Havero is roused?
- Area A1: it states, that Sial and Krojuns band return to area A1 under certain (rather likely) circumstances to wait for the storm to end...it is however not mentioned how they react to each other. It is hard to imagine that they are on good terms.
Cinnabar tactics:
It says that she tranforms her sawtooth sabre into a mantis claw.
And talks also about channeling stunning fist.
Is this an error?
Was she intended to be a monk?
James already answered this, above:
And ignore that bit about Cinnabar doing that; she had a weirdo ability we cut because it was stupid, then missed a remnant of it in her tactics section.
So we just make up our own tactics. :)
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Creative Director
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* storm rocs are described as uncontested apex predators in their entry, but in the wyvern entry the wyverns are mentioned as contesting for food with the rocs - successfully. To me, this makes them contested apex predators :) Not really too significant.
Yeah, while the rocs are the top predators in the region, the wyverns do indeed fight for dominance over the foods. Yet that doesn't mean that the wyverns do a better job than the tougher rocs. It's basically just a few poor choices of words, really. No big deal.
* Under the ecology of the cinderlands, it is mentioned that all Shoanti quahs need to pass the burning run to become members of the tribe. This isn't true (each quah has their own trial, only the Sun tribe does the burning run), so be careful not to say such to your players.
Yup. That's a weird remnant, I suspect, of an earlier draft. Burn runs are a Sklar-Quah thing; the other quahs have their own stunts.
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Creative Director
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Ahh, I knew there was something other than Cindermaw that bothered me, was just prepping my Harrow handout:
"Spend a Harrow Point to gain a +5 bonus on all melee or natural weapons for the duration of one combat."
Is this bonus to hit or damage? I assume it isn't to both? Is it typed? I was going to change this to say it's an untyped bonus to hit, but I just wanted to double check that was correct :).
The bonus is to damage. It's an untyped bonus.
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Creative Director
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- in the description of the Havero tentacles it says: "Although the havero itself is fantastically intelligent,..." In the monster section (p.86) however it is listed as fantatically stupid: INT 5 that is (or was it meant fantastically wise?)
This is an unfortunate word choice error. The Havero may be relatively stupid, but it's fantastically wise and charismatic. Instead of saying it was fantastically intelligent, we should have used a word like "observant" or "mentally powerful" or something.
- if the PCs are attacked by the tentacles, it is quite likely that the noise points will rise to 40 or 50 and there it states "..as long as the noise point total remains at 50 or higher". Combat necessarily increases the noise point tally, is it the intention that the PCs have to retreat, once the Havero is roused?
Yes. If the Havero is roused totally, the PCs either have to pull off the "Kill the tentalces ALL AT ONCE" stunt, or use magic like silence, or retreat beyond the reach of the monster and let it calm down again.
- Area A1: it states, that Sial and Krojuns band return to area A1 under certain (rather likely) circumstances to wait for the storm to end...it is however not mentioned how they react to each other. It is hard to imagine that they are on good terms.
The two of them likely try to avoid each other, Krojun would probably accost and even attack Sial, while Sial isn't interested in picking a fight and would use his abilities to retreat or avoid him in the first place.
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This is an unfortunate word choice error. The Havero may be relatively stupid, but it's fantastically wise and charismatic. Instead of saying it was fantastically intelligent, we should have used a word like "observant" or "mentally powerful" or something.
...the Havero opened its terrible beak, and then, in a voice like a million babie's cries of pain, the terrifying Havero, a creature from the cold reaches beyond space and reality, uttered these words:
"LLLEEEERRROOOOYYYYYY JJJJJJJJEEEEEENNNNNKKKKIIIIIIINNNNNNNNSSSSSS"
A few minor contradictions:
storm rocs are described as uncontested apex predators in their entry, but in the wyvern entry the wyverns are mentioned as contesting for food with the rocs - successfully. To me, this makes them contested apex predators :) Not really too significant.
Storm rocs belong to the top carnivore trophic layer along with wyverns and a few others (I'd have to dig out my food web notes, I don't remember which others were in there off the top of my head). The storm roc entry is poorly written - top predators certainly do contend with one another over the same food sources, especially in a place as austere as the Cinderlands. However, if a storm roc decides that it fancies another predator's lunch there's not much that's going to stop it. Wyverns, being stubborn and stupid (and maybe a little hungry?), tend to object to this and put up a good fight over any carcass.
Edit: didn't say it, so I'll add it - I'm not expecting the wyverns are prey themselves, due to their poison and other factors. Wouldn't expect CR 9 predators to view CR 6 predators as lunch.
Correct. Top carnivores aren't prey themselves (that's what makes them top carnivores).
Hope this helps!!
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In the cinderlands section, it says akyrak see page 80. No akyrak in bestiary. They sound cool, so will they be in pathfinder on a later date?Damn.
The akyrak was cut at the last minute for 2 reasons: we needed the space, and it was a sort of underwhelming monster in the end anyway. Best change for the akyrak is to just say it's the Shoanti word for dire bear.
This might be a non-issue, since the creature's been sacrificed to the page-count monster, but in the Ecology of the Cinderlands article (page 64, first entry with bold name) it is referred to as a "large arachnid predator" with traslucent body and camo skills.
Phase spider?
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Creative Director
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This might be a non-issue, since the creature's been sacrificed to the page-count monster, but in the Ecology of the Cinderlands article (page 64, first entry with bold name) it is referred to as a "large arachnid predator" with traslucent body and camo skills.
Phase spider?
Honestly... part of the reason the akyrak was cut was that it wasn't all that great of a monster. We needed to lose 2 pages, and cutting a mediocre monster was the best choice.
The illustration we got of the creature was basically of a bear with a scorpion tail, in any case. Had we kept the monster in the bestiary, the mention in the Cinderlands article would have been incorrect anyway.
There's plenty of monsters in the Cinderlands. Don't get too worried about the one we left behind.
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How would you guys award XP for the Cindermaw encounter? Assuming the PCs manage to deal at least 100 points of damage to the worm, and then allow it to swallow of them whole, then burst out, and then promptly flee once the deed it done. It is a CR 14 creature, but would you award the party the XP of defeating a CR 14 creature, even if they flee without killing the beast?
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Creative Director
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How would you guys award XP for the Cindermaw encounter? Assuming the PCs manage to deal at least 100 points of damage to the worm, and then allow it to swallow of them whole, then burst out, and then promptly flee once the deed it done. It is a CR 14 creature, but would you award the party the XP of defeating a CR 14 creature, even if they flee without killing the beast?
I'd actually recommend awarding the full CR 14 award. If the PCs are already way ahead of what the adventure expects them to be, level-wise, drop that to CR 12 or 10 or whatever. But in other cases, CR 14 should work fine.
I agree!
Killing a big giant worm-like is pretty standard adventure fare. But winding up inside and cutting your own like exit hole is. . .
Well actually, that’s also pretty standard adventure fare.
OK, but deliberately jumping inside just so you can cut your way out, that’s pretty gutsy. I think that’s tougher than just dropping its hit point to below zero. If I had the choice, I’d much prefer the assignment of just killing the thing.
It’s worth the full CR in my book. Congrats to your party HSuperman if someone in your group managed to pull it off.
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Ah, well, nobody has done it yet. I'm just finishing prepping the adventure and making sure I've covered everything. Although, you make it sound like it's a rare thing to accomplish this task...
Sure, out of character getting eaten happens sometimes, in character, facing down an 80 foot long worm and yelling "Eat me!" as it bears down on you? That takes some guts. One thing you could do is drop the CR down to 10 or 12 if they effectively get in, get out, and run like little girls and/or are very blase in-character about the whole thing without good reason, but give them the full 14 if they kill the worm or if they roleplay the scene effectively.
In my game, they didn't kill Cindermaw, but they were prepped with strong tactics to take it down if something bad happened and the fighter needed retrieving, said fighter role-played the "Eat me" thing well and I believe the only damage they dealt was what was necessary for her to cut her way out, as a point of respect for a creature of Shoanti legend. I wasn't about to penalise them for an excellent roleplay decision, so I gave them the full CR14.
Ah, well, nobody has done it yet. I'm just finishing prepping the adventure and making sure I've covered everything. Although, you make it sound like it's a rare thing to accomplish this task...
Heh heh. The play test was ugly but decidedly memorable. Valeros, the party's "designated diver", repeatedly dove down and he would not come out. There was a lot of tweaking. The party learned to buff the "volunteer".
The play tester's difficulty in cutting their man out also inspired in the inclusion of a magical beast bane dagger in area A10 (The Fallback Vault) on p.41 which was originally named "Fang Tamer". This makes the task a bit easier. Though there is no guarantee the players will explore the Acropolis of the Thrall Keepers and find the dagger before they meet up with Cindermaw.
. . . I believe the only damage they dealt was what was necessary for her to cut her way out, as a point of respect for a creature of Shoanti legend. . .
Now that is just class. The true mark of a man is showing restraint while being showered with digestive juices. Illessa, please pass along my respect to your excellent players.
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We just went through this actually. The druid buffed the monk up before hand with Resist Energy (Fire) and Resist Energy (Acid), and the monk used some red war paint for good measure. When they got there, the monk charged up ahead only to see the worm pop out behind and fire blast the rest of the group. The druid turned into a fire elemental to help flank the thing with the monk while the rest Hasted and fled, then realized it was...um...enjoying his fire too much, so he changed into an earth elemental instead. The monk took a ton of damage from the 'playful' bites, trying his best to pantomime "EAT ME". With the help from the Illusionist using a major image to make the monk appear on fire, screaming, and cooked, the monk finally succeed on his Bluff check versus the worm's sense motive and was promptly eaten over the next turn or two.
The worm got off one more fire breath on a few of the group that was still clumped together (the Truthspeaker was watching from above with his Fly spell) and two of the Bone Shoanti almost bought the farm. The monk, using the feat from the Pathfinder Campaign Setting that lets him switch his unarmed damage to piercing or slashing, did a flurry of blows with the penalty for being grappled and 'slashed' his way out with his hands. After he got out, the Illusionist dropped a Sensory Deprivation (from SC) on the worm and, blinded, deafened, and without its tremorsense, the worm fled.
Cindermaw later helped the party again during the Trial of the Totems. When the bulettes attacked, Trinia summoned a red dragon to swoop down on them using a Minor Image. Only one really believed it and hid underground. Sensing the dragon would not be enough, our Illusionist cast a Major Image to make Cindermaw appear in the middle of them. Needless to say, all but one of the bulettes failed their save there, and the remaining one was killed by the fighter and monk (fighting with one hand on their totems) a couple rounds later.
As the Illusionist had come up with the ingenious idea of using a couple Rope Tricks to 'hold' two of the totems in place (the tops of them were slid into the hole and then planted on their impressions), he was free to keep the Major Image going and have Cindermaw circle the plateau. This impressed the Shoanti quite a bit.
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Question regarding the Havero tentacle encounter:
On page 36, the Havero is described as having "a dark-colored mass of thick, rubbery material that heals all damage done to it in a single round." I didn't see anywhere on the "Havero Tentacle" stat block about this. Does this mean that the PCs have to do at least 66 points of damage to the tentacle in one round to kill it, otherwise it regains all hit points back?
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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On page 36, the Havero is described as having "a dark-colored mass of thick, rubbery material that heals all damage done to it in a single round." I didn't see anywhere on the "Havero Tentacle" stat block about this. Does this mean that the PCs have to do at least 66 points of damage to the tentacle in one round to kill it, otherwise it regains all hit points back?
I assume that means that the Havero itself heals all damage. As I understand it, the PCs really have no chance of killing the beast itself, but we also have stats for its individual tentacles, which can be damaged or "killed." Of course, once you reach a certain Noise threshold, they just keep re-spawning.
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Anyone have any tips regarding the Trial of the Totem? I just ran it for one of my groups and they all came up with a clever method of using rope and tying up the totems in such a way that they could not topple (each of the 4 totems was a corner of a square, and were tipped outwards, so that the rope was taut between the totems). The conjurer was able to summon some monsters to help temporarily hold up totems while the rogue tied the rope around the totems. One issue I ran across was that since the Use Rope skill is no longer a part of Pathfinder RPG beta, I had no idea how to handle the situation; as clever as the idea was, I did not want to just have them automatically succeed on it. Any ideas on this? I ended up having the rogue make dexterity checks, and based on the roll, either increased or decreased the strength check DC for keeping the totems up every 6 hours. Also, I found that water, food, and the elements are a non-issue to the party since create food/water and endure elements are all readily available (especially since Thousand Bones gave the group the wand in the very beginning). Is it suppose to be that easy?? Lastly, the cleric of Calistria used his 8th level domain power to create a image of Cindermaw out of the ground to drive away the bulettes. Overall, the whole trial seemed really easy to the party, to the point where they were cracking jokes that anyone could be Sklar-Quah with this kind of trial (out of character, of course). I'll be running this chapter again soon with another group, and I'm just wondering what to do to make things more appropriately challenging. Did anyone elses' party have an easy time with the trial, and is it suppose to be that easy??
Anyone have any tips regarding the Trial of the Totem? I just ran it for one of my groups and they all came up with a clever method of using rope and tying up the totems in such a way that they could not topple (each of the 4 totems was a corner of a square, and were tipped outwards, so that the rope was taut between the totems). The conjurer was able to summon some monsters to help temporarily hold up totems while the rogue tied the rope around the totems. One issue I ran across was that since the Use Rope skill is no longer a part of Pathfinder RPG beta, I had no idea how to handle the situation; as clever as the idea was, I did not want to just have them automatically succeed on it. Any ideas on this? I ended up having the rogue make dexterity checks, and based on the roll, either increased or decreased the strength check DC for keeping the totems up every 6 hours. Also, I found that water, food, and the elements are a non-issue to the party since create food/water and endure elements are all readily available (especially since Thousand Bones gave the group the wand in the very beginning). Is it suppose to be that easy?? Lastly, the cleric of Calistria used his 8th level domain power to create a image of Cindermaw out of the ground to drive away the bulettes. Overall, the whole trial seemed really easy to the party, to the point where they were cracking jokes that anyone could be Sklar-Quah with this kind of trial (out of character, of course). I'll be running this chapter again soon with another group, and I'm just wondering what to do to make things more appropriately challenging. Did anyone elses' party have an easy time with the trial, and is it suppose to be that easy??
*bump*
I'd have Krogun show up, scoff at the "cheaters", and throw his klar to cut the ropes. But, sounds like your players were smart about it so I wouldn't be too harsh.
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From my view point, I think the Trial of the Totems is going to be one of those things that will be super easy for one group and hard for another. I have 2 parties running through the AP and my first party just completed this challenge a couple weeks ago. It was very easy for them, but they are a high strength party. The lowest strength is a 14 I think. My next party has only one character above a 14 and that is only a 16 so I foresee this challenge being a bit harder for them.
As for Ropes, it isn't that easy to tie four tipsy objects together and not have them all fall down. That would require some very high rope check I would think. Since the Use Rope skill is gone, I guess it would have to be a dex or survival check but not sure.
Did anyone convert the NPC & monster stats into PFRPG?
I'm working on this too. I have a few of the lesser things done (boneclaws for instance). I'll try to post them and a link once I get them done here within the next week or so.
Did anyone convert the NPC & monster stats into PFRPG?
Steev42 has the converted stats in this thread here. Look to the middle of it.