So there is no way to post a picture in a post? If you wanted to show something you would have to post a link to it.
I'm a GM running a PBP campaign, and I come across a situation occasionally where the party wants to do a specific thing that is potentially risky, I already know that the thing that they are planning on doing is fine (nothing good or bad will happen), but then I have to decide if I should play along so that they have to make realistic decisions, or I can choose to save time by saying that what they are doing is successful so we can move on.
Here's an example: The players are exploring a hex in Kingmaker that is bisected by a river. They have come to a bridge that crosses that river that is flimsy enough that only one medium sized creature at a time can cross it (meaning they can't bring their horses across). So, they decided to split the party. They will leave two people with the horses on one side of the river, and the other three will cross the bridge and finish exploring the hex on the other side. I have already rolled for random encounters for both groups, and there are none. My dilemma:
1) Do I have them decide how to split the party, and make them decide if they want to use any of their resources (such as protective or traveling spells or magic items), or
2) In the interests of not wasting time, do I just tell them that nothing happens and they succeed so that we don't have to wait for the preparations above to be discussed and decided on? This takes away the opportunity for my party to "realistically" plan and spend resources for an unknown event, and I worry that in doing this the party will start to think that unless I ask for these sorts of details, that there is no danger ahead.
Thoughts?
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Depends on what is fun for the group. Because PbP is slow, there can be a temptation to speed things up. But the party, obviously, don't know what you know. Kingmaker is itself odd for PbP - I tried to run it as a PbP and got frustrated and gave up. The exploration element is quite slow and potentially repetitive, and what could go past fairly quickly in face-to-face takes forever online. But because exploration is fairly key to the whole AP it is probably no a good idea to skimp it unless the players are getting bored.
But because exploration is fairly key to the whole AP it is probably no a good idea to skimp it unless the players are getting bored.
See, I'm not so sure that it's "key." Yes, there's a LOT of it, and in a PBP, that's sort of the problem. But I've read plenty of threads in the KM forum of how some groups just designate it to a single person or just push it off to NPCs altogether. I don't want to drag it out with too many false starts.
But Kingmaker was just my example. I was hoping to hear from others who have thought about this some. I'm sure there are GMs who adapt their style from tabletop to PBP gaming. Does anybody have any examples of sacrificing realism for expediency in this manner?
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When running a PBP, I will certainly gloss over uninteresting bits to keep things moving. You have to have a feel for how your players are doing. If they are getting antsy, it might be time to skip ahead. If they are really into the exploration at the moment, take a few RL days to let them explore. As it is, that sort of thing doesn't usually take that much time in the grand scheme of things.
I'll sometimes speed things up. If there's one foe left with just a hit point or two and the party's in no real trouble, I'll sometimes just say they kill it, especially if I know there's no further encounters that day.
It's definitely a balance between keeping progress going and allowing role-playing, and you have to judge based on your group. I'd say if they're enjoying the role-playing part of splitting (especially if it's not one post, wait a day, another post, wait a day...) let them go. If it's more just deciding out of character, I'd speed it along.
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Personally, I wouldn,t have bothered going into detailing the bridge hex unless I knew there was an encounter, being a pbp i would make all the possible give away rolls such as perception that way, when i get to the bridge hex i can just say they found a rickety bridge and as far as they can tell there is no danger in the area. If they ask questions and get into the details only then play out the details, if they just simply say two of them explore the other side then i say they found nothing of interest and no recent tracks nearby.
If there was an encounter on the other side I would, still glaze over them crossing unless some noticed something before hand. Only when the characters notice something do i start with including details, that way they have no idea when to expect an encounter until they are actually in it.
This way you can glaze over the endless exploration quickly without ignoring it and still being ableto tell them when they see important things.
I.e.
When they enter the hex,
Me, "you come to a swift river. There is a small rickity bride the must be crossed with care and is uncrossable by the horses. You don't see anything interesting in the area."
Them, fred and george cross the bridge and scout the otherside.
fred theoretically rolled a one but i rolled it not him so he had no idea.
Me, you cross the bridge and find nothing of particular interest, which direction will you all go?
If there was an encounter,
Me you come to a swift river with a rickety bridge that only the medium or smaller creatures can cross. *rolls their perceptions in secret* there is nothing appaerently interesting about the area.
Them, fred and george cross the bridge.
Me, fred starts across the bridge and halfway across an arrow comes flying out of the bushes of the far side and strikes his armor.
You see how i make it simple? They can investigate or theycan continue but they get no indication of anything until something happens so they basically set the pace for it.
If they say they are going to Bree, then you can roll in secret for encounters without describing everything in between except the encounter. If they just say they are heading north then you can just say they go over the river and through the woods until they get to grandmas house. Basically don't even mention stuff until they encounter something where they need to make a choice. And when that choive comes let them set the pace.
B
I have been involved in 2 PbPs and have always been good at posting when I was meant to and keeping up my end. My problem is that they have all died because other players haven't been diligent. I really enjoy the PbP format because it allows me to be as descriptive as I like about my actions and I like the roleplay aspect this format gives.
This may not be the right place to ask this bu does anyone know of/have and PbPs I could get in on? If I have asked in the wrong forum please direct me to the right place and accept my apologies.
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You can check the recruitment threads.
Vetting your fellow players is almost impossible, but you can vet the GM. See if they have any other PbP's and how long they have been going.
You can vet the other players, if they've played before. What you have no way of knowing, though, is which players are going to be chosen; all you can do is hope that the GM is also checking profiles and posting history.
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You can, and should, vet other players for games you're apping for. Do they have a history of bailing on games? What's their posting history like for the game's they're already involved in? Are they new to PBP? Are they DMing games of their own?
All of these things, and more, are important factors you should keep in mind when applying for a game.
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I have read much but not all of the thread.
I have a few of recommendations I would like to make to prospective PbP players/GM's. These are items I didn't see before or that I believe could use more emphasis/details.
- Post.
If you are waiting on a player to respond to something, post an ooc If you are waiting on info from the GM, post an ooc If your character isn't directly involved in the current proceeding make a short post to show you are still present and paying attention. "Mike continues to patrol the perimeter while the thinking guys examine the relic" Or "Susan looks over the dwarf's shoulder to see what all the excitement is about." I have seen PbP dying because nothing happens for days while everyone is waiting on someone else to do something and that someone (it has been me a couple of times) does not realize everyone is waiting on him.
- If you as GM are expecting something in particular from the players or are using something very different from the norm, please clearly inform everyone.
A) I saw one GM in the recruitment thread would say something like, "Excellent concept, post in the discussion thread." However, he did not mean that character had been selected. He meant, ‘You've made it past the first round of eliminations, now I want to see how you guys interact in a bar like setting.' Many of the players didn't realize that and were eventually cut after they thought they had been selected because they were not role playing enough in the discussion thread.
B) If you expect the players to use google translate (or similar) to make words for spells and never use metagame phrasing like "I get an AoO from his movement," then please say so. Just saying it is a RP heavy game does not make that clear to most of us.
C) In both RL and PbP games I've seen GM's get disappointed if the players don't develop love and/or hate relationships with the other players. If you are expecting that, please say it. Many people do not play that way by default. Some of us find it annoying and wouldn't have wasted everyone's time joining the campaign if it had been clear from the begining.
D) I actually saw one GM put up the statement, "I just use the same house rules that everyone else uses." Uhmm ... What?
Just no.
- Post something.
- Be careful vetting players and GM's just based on the number of short life PbP campaigns they have been involved with. I know at least a couple of people that look bad on that evaluation. But they were the people that did post all the time and wanted the campaign to continue.
- Don't take on more than you can handle. If you can't devote the time required to do a good job in 7 PbP campaigns at the same time, then don't get in 7 PbP at the same time.
- Post anything.
- Personally I think PFS scenarios work well in PbP. They are short, clear, manageable portions of adventure. I've been reading some of the PbP campaigns that go for months without much of any ‘action' happening other than social interaction. Some players and/or GM's like that, but some don't. Some people are dropping out because of that pace that wasn't identified at the intro/recruitment. But a PFS scenario will be relatively short, usually includes some amount of both social and combat interactions, and has a clear finish. Some groups are using PFS scenarios for their campaigns because of that (even if they are not using all the PFS rules). So that is something you might consider. Yes, I understand they are not for everyone. I'm not saying they are. I just think it is worth considering.
- P-O-S-T.
- Rarely is PbP a rush. You have time. Take a few minutes to think about your response and double check what you have typed in (leaving out the tiny word ‘not' can make a major change in what happens). Yes, everyone makes the occasional typo or has an autocorrect mistake. But if we have to spend 10 minutes trying (and possibly failing) to decipher every post, it an indication that you could put a bit more effort into it.
- PbP gives you abit more opportunity for some aspects of RP. Try taking advantage of them. I personally am a bit of an introvert. In RL games I will not speak in accents, will not use other languages, will rarely give my PC's internal reasoning unless asked, etc ...
But in a PbP since I can't be embarrassed in front of people I will probably never actually meet: My snake man will "Ssspeak with a lissssp." The barbarian Kruzel, "Belike times drop articles talking." The cleric Gronk might, "Proselytize to the masses for embracing the Obliviation-of-All!" Use google translate into Slovak for magic words.
Try to be descriptive of what you are doing, why, and what you hope to accomplish. Instead of just "Full attack [dice ... "
Try something like "Morrolan stands toe-to-toe with the beast and with a flurry of sword strikes attempts to strike down the opponent. I hope I can at least keep him from finishing off the Malcolm! [dice ... " It helps keep you and others involved and immersed in the story. It will also tend to make you a more popular PbP player.
- If possible, check in a few times a day. Just because the rule is you have to post once a day. It doesn't mean you can't check in and post more often than that if you have something applicable.
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This a great thread. Dotting for reference.
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Greetings Mortals--
My thoughts on PBP: Painlord's Guide to Advanced PbP.
May you find players you can be friends with.
-Pain
p.s. Excellent post, Kydeem.
*Take whole notebooks of notes*
I had a question on PbP, but I didn't know where to post it, so I'll leave it here: how much does the difference in times zones between countries negatively affect PbP. For instance, I live in Italy, and I've seen that a lot of people here post from the US: how much of a problem would be of posting with (about) 6 hours of difference?
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It doesn't make much difference at all. I very happily DM'ed a PbP where I had players in Greece, Australia and various parts of the US, and I'm based in the UK. PbP is slow anyway (compared to a normal face-to-face game) so the few hours lost in waiting for people to be awake is pretty trivial. You might not be on at the same time as others verry often but I've never found it a problem.
... how much of a problem would be of posting with (about) 6 hours of difference?
Rarely does it make any significant difference.
IF some one asks a question (before he takes an action) and the GM answers quickly, a player might get his action after the info on the same day. But even in the same time zone, people don't always check the game at the same time of day.
Occasionally you will see a game where the GM wants things to go fast. So he asks that all the players post multiple times between 6 pm and 10 pm GM-6 (for example). But those games are pretty rare.
Ok, thanks everyone. I'm very happy that Timezones won't be a problem.
Of course all them metric lovers wont comprimise either, so it looks like we are stuck with the status quo. :p
Now, I only have to convince you American and Englishmen to use the metrical system...
I really wish you would succeed. It is just idiotic that we refuse to switch.
dot
Now, I only have to convince you American and Englishmen to use the metrical system...I really wish you would succeed. It is just idiotic that we refuse to switch.
On my side of the pond, there are legitimate reasons not to switch everything at once, but that seems to be the one means people can envision. Besides, I have not heard of a serious attempt to make the change in decades.
Honestly, I like the size of inches and miles (in the same way one might like to eat food in bites that arent too big or too small). Dont care so much about feet, and yards/meters are so close as to be moot difference for preference. But honestly, why would I want to count height in hundred plus when it can be 50-70 instead? Besides the larger the unit of measure, the easier it is to estimate the length/distance to be measured. And since when do metric users measure height in decameters (which would far easier to estimate a persons height or other similar sized lengths)? Metric users always seem to use either centimeters or meters and never the options in between.
The only advantage to metric over standard is doing the math when converting from one scale to the next, but honestly how often does that actually happen? And for those jobs that actually do that, are generally jobs where you like math anyway and such simple conversions would be cheesecake, and not even noticed, compared to the other calculations performed regularly.
... Besides the larger the unit of measure, the easier it is to estimate the length/distance to be measured. ...
Not a scientific survey by any means, nearly every person I've met that is proficient in the metric system, estimates values more accurately than nearly every person I know that trys to estimate in the English system.
...
The only advantage to metric over standard is doing the math when converting from one scale to the next, but honestly how often does that actually happen? And for those jobs that actually do that, are generally jobs where you like math anyway and such simple conversions would be cheesecake, and not even noticed, compared to the other calculations performed regularly.
Honestly? In many manufacturing and engineering environments it is nearly continuous. I like math. But continuous conversions is not enjoyable. More important it slows down the work and introduces another potential source of error. Worse yet, it actually is another hindrance in getting contracts with companies outside the us. The rest of the world actually laughs at or is frustrated by our prints and diagrams.
Sorry, you are correct. I will drop it.
Is there any decent guide out there for the mechanical aspects of PbP? IE, organisation, dealing with combat (like turn order, positioning) (and other hard to abstract through text elements), as well as etiquette and other guidelines? I'd be interested in starting up a game, but I will admit it's kinda intimidating, and I keep coming up with difficulties.
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Hey everyone. I'm having a first timers problem. I just started a game thread. I was able to post in my recruitment, discussion and campaign info threads...but I can't post on my own gameplay thread? Any reason why this would be? I made the thread with my account avatar is that the problem? Do I need to create the thread under a GM alias?
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Hey everyone. I'm having a first timers problem. I just started a game thread. I was able to post in my recruitment, discussion and campaign info threads...but I can't post on my own gameplay thread? Any reason why this would be? I made the thread with my account avatar is that the problem? Do I need to create the thread under a GM alias?
Working now. It looks like. Forgot to link recruitment thread...for some reason if you don't link all threads it causes a problem.
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Two new questions:
1) If the campaign uses block initiative, how do you recommend handling boss fights that also have mooks?
2) I have created two traits for my campaign. Each PC has "I'm a Hero, Dammit!", which allows each player a d20 reroll once per encounter (obviously designed to speed up combats). "Like a Boss" is a trait I have given to boss encounters that basically says the player's special trait does not work. The question I have here that I had probably not put enough thought into is, what is a boss?
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A boss is what you choose it to be, based on your style of play. This isn't really a PbP issue. If you want the fight to be tougher, then obviously you invoke the trait, but whether and why you invoke it will depend upon what you are trying to achieve. That said, if you invoke the trait so the playerss can't reroll a lot, then their trait is pretty useless. Personally, I wouldn't bother with the Like A Boss trait at all - giving players goodies only to take them away when they need them most seems a bit strange and could cause irritation.
On initiative, having the boss and mooks all going together on one initiaitve will probably make things a little bit quicker. But a sudden coordinated mass attack on one initiaitive can be quite disadvantageous to the players. If it was me, I'd split the initiative between boss and mooks by type.
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Here's a piece of advice I'm learning: Keep notes for yourself. Otherwise, you'll very quickly forget what you planned to follow up on.
You might ask, why am I posting this here when people probably already know it?
Probably because I figure I'm gonna forget it otherwise. ;D
It’s fairly rare for anyone to break etiquette and post in a game thread if they’re not a player in the game. Occasionally people following the game might post in the discussion thread.
Out of curiosity, is the latter considered rude?
As you might or might not recall in Aubrey's Eberron Campaign, I like to post in the Discussion Threads of PbPs I'm lurking on. Certainly not frequently, but I might make a rules correction or the like, or compliment somebody if they've made a really good post.
I don't do this as often as I used to, but would it be best to cut it out altogether?
I like it when lurkers post in my discussion threads, if they have something useful or nice or nicely useful to say.
On the other hand snark and bluster by an outsider would not be welcome.
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A friend has an analytics project going that will hopefully help us understand any connection between Play by Post momentum (posting rates, DM turnaround, etc) and the success/completion of APs. Parsing current/active data is coming along but we’re having a hard time finding successfully completed campaigns to collect data from. Getting the community’s aid on that end would help tremendously.
We’re looking for PBP campaigns, here on the Paizo forums, that have completed an entire AP. If you can, please provide a link.
I usually do old school modules rather than APs, but I have finished several modules as part of my PbPs, but not the main theme as AP games seem to be.
Yeah, APs really aren't my cup of tea. I can't finish them in a RL game, let alone a PBP. I'm more of the making this stuff up as I go type. I don't know of anyone who has finished a PBP AP because I usually avoid those types of games.
I know there's a Skull & Shackles game here somewhere that finished the AP, in less than a year too, iirc. That's the only PbP I've ever heard of that actually completed the AP. I don't remember the name of the thread, though.
I have some APs that are still doing well, but the closest I've got to having one finished is the Savage Tide that you're playing in (and Runelords, which you're running). Like Aubrey, I'd be surprised if there were very many that have gone from Book 1 to 6.
That said, anecdotally, I think momentum and chance of completion are very, very much linked.