Rolemaster- cus you can bleed out or die of shock- and lets not forget the Disintergation Crit Table and the ones for Hi Energy weapon platforms (gotta love the Spacemaster compatability).
Call of Cthulhu- because when it comes down to it, you're going to die or go mad-it's pretty inevitable.
GURPS- because no matter what how kick ass you get, a bullet between the eyes is still taking you out.
Chill- absolutely brutal attrition- great game, though.
Call of Cthulhu and Twilight 2000 were both designed to be gritty and deadly. However, experienced gamers will be quick to exploit flaws in the systems that will ensure survival. In Twilight it's possible to create a total bullet sponge that can live through anything but the rules are so convoluted why would anyone besides my friend Tim who enjoys the challenge bother with them? Call of Cthulhu makes it too easy to exploit the skill system to make a totally bada$$ combat monster, I've seen it happen.
Shadowrun is easy to die if you acted stupid. The system didn't, and now in Fourth Edition still doesn't, pull any punches. But at the same time it's easy to make a character that can shrug off anything thrown at them, especially Trolls. This flaw is fixed considerably in the new rules.
So my final vote as the deadliest game I have run or played is Call of Cthulhu d20. Using the d20 rules set it is not possible to exploit flaws in the system to make your character able to whip out an arsenal from under your duster and lay waste to the great cosmic evil. You can try but I can guarantee you won't be successful at low levels, I've seen it happen. d20 fixes the problems with the original rules and makes the game playable though still too deadly for my tastes.
Call of Cthulhu and Twilight 2000 were both designed to be gritty and deadly. However, experienced gamers will be quick to exploit flaws in the systems that will ensure survival. In Twilight it's possible to create a total bullet sponge that can live through anything but the rules are so convoluted why would anyone besides my friend Tim who enjoys the challenge bother with them?
Bullet-Sponge? I'd like to hear (read) a little more behind this.
Bullet-Sponge? I'd like to hear (read) a little more behind this.
If a player were to pump up their endurance related score, I forget what it was called now, their health on their main body, where most attacks hit, can easily withstand several rounds from an assault rifle. Bullet sponge is what my friend, a long time fan of Twilight 2000 and Merc 2000, called this tactic.
The last game I played my wife made a big Samoan guy who could take all kinds of punishment and keep on trucking. The others in the party used to joke they could just use him as cover. Things like explosions and shrapnel that did damage to all body parts was a little more difficult to shrug off but it was still a flaw of the system. It's been so long since I ran Twilight 2000 that I can't remember exactly how she accomplished this and I'm too lazy to pull out the 2.0 book. :P
I didn't care for the unnecessary complexity of the system and scrapped my last game wondering why we didn't just play the same story with d20 Modern. So we did.
then Twighlight 2000 is your deadly game; very realistic; you get shot once; your prolly gonna die.
eh, depends where you get hit and what you get hit with... There aren't that many instant kill zones on the body and they tend to be fairly small (head is an exception of course) also, with modern technology and the humans own ability to heal; our bodies are remarkably resilient.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Mechwarrior 3rd
The character creation charts couldn't kill your character outright, but they'd make your character wish he was dead.
Combat was lethal, both outside the mechs, and inside where a lucky shot from a rifle could breach the mech.
And the effort to roll up your character and stat him out could drive you to suicide.
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Deadliest systems I played - taking only the rules into account, not the scenarios I'd say rolemaster (especially when the DM doesn't own the rulebooks but some of the players do - so they look up the criticals and the DM doesn't even have the chance to fudge...), shadowrun and Mechwarrior (I heard the latest edition of shadowrun is less deadly, but I haven't played, Mechwarrior is deadly in all editions I came to play)
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I haven’t had the opportunity to play a detailed game yet, but everything that I’ve read points to The Riddle of Steel being a fairly deadly game. Any thoughts on this?
Ha! I made sure to read through all of the posts to see if someone brought this gem up. Most games talk about avoiding combat being a good decision, well this one means it. I love the damage tables.
Upward swing to the groin with cutting weapon
Level 5: "Weapon destroys pelvis and lodges just below the navel. Death is imminent."
Good stuff.
I heard the latest edition of shadowrun is less deadly...
Untrue. The new system actually evens out the lethality. Before most Trolls could shrug off anything but in Fourth Edition Trolls are still appropriately tough but can't shrug off bullets to the face they way they used to. I've found the lethality of Shadowrun was mostly up to the intelligence of the players. It was relatively easy to survive so long as you played it smart and didn't get in over your head, and, of course, wore armor.
I've been playing Shadowrun for years, across three of it's editions.
I would agree that Rolemaster could be brutual, especially on a single roll you could be screwed. Twilight 2000 I'd also agree to as being pretty rough.
The one I would also include would be Dark Conspiracy - which was also made by Games Workshop and used Twilight's system. I think what made it rough was that not only could you be killed by conventional means, but all the paranormal stuff that emerged could mess you up badly. It was like a nasty mix of Twilight and Call of Cthulu - to me at least.
I've been reading the rules for "Godlike" (haven't played yet - it's a WW2 era super-powers game) It seems pretty deadly. One stray bullet can really mess you up. Combat really seems like something to try and avoid. Getting wounded is a big deal for characters.
We've played Godlike a little, but using GURPS. It hasn't been deadly for the PCs yet but it sure has been for the NPCs. Two "powered" PCs storming the beach in N. Africa (Opn. Torch) with a platoon of normals - one guy bought it from a random shell blast, one from a sniper shot to the head, and the platoon sergeant and a squad leader both are out after trying to be heroes. Fortunately the powered PCs used their gifts to get the situation under control and secure their patch of beach from the Vichy French.
We had a lot of fun with it.
M
Edit: Of course the French are not very best soldiers in the war. Our boys are about to meet the battle-hardened Germans before long...and their ubermenschen soon after (when they try to take Sicily). That should be interesting.
Old Usagi Yojimbo. Every time you attacked someone, you could end up dead yourself.
From my experiences, I'd cast my vote for Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, criticals were brutal, if you survived you had to convalesce for weeks.
Call of Cthulhu and Twilight 2000 were both designed to be gritty and deadly. However, experienced gamers will be quick to exploit flaws in the systems that will ensure survival. In Twilight it's possible to create a total bullet sponge that can live through anything but the rules are so convoluted why would anyone besides my friend Tim who enjoys the challenge bother with them? Call of Cthulhu makes it too easy to exploit the skill system to make a totally bada$$ combat monster, I've seen it happen.
Shadowrun is easy to die if you acted stupid. The system didn't, and now in Fourth Edition still doesn't, pull any punches. But at the same time it's easy to make a character that can shrug off anything thrown at them, especially Trolls. This flaw is fixed considerably in the new rules.
So my final vote as the deadliest game I have run or played is Call of Cthulhu d20. Using the d20 rules set it is not possible to exploit flaws in the system to make your character able to whip out an arsenal from under your duster and lay waste to the great cosmic evil. You can try but I can guarantee you won't be successful at low levels, I've seen it happen. d20 fixes the problems with the original rules and makes the game playable though still too deadly for my tastes.
I'll see your combat monster, and raise you a shoggoth.
Seriously, no need to convert over to d20. First off, you should be working with your players to generate a social contract where they don't make that kind of character, and secondly, even if they do, there are so many mythos threats that just arn't going to worry about his 80% in tommygun, and 80 in dodge, and will just smoosh him anyway.
byakhee with shrivelling=dead combat monster pc
shoggoth=dead combat monster
One hidden cultist with a rifle=dead combat monster
+1
Paranoia.
I give +1 to WFRP, Rolemaster, and Call of Cthulhu. In RM, I created the character, joined the party fight and died of a bleeding crit with my character's hand cut off at the wrist. Warhammer crits weren't any better. In CoC, I don't know which was worse, dying or going insane.
I've done more killing than all of my other games combined, over 30+ years, in Warhammer Fantasy ROleplay 3rd edition.
On average, I kill one character per session (I stopped pulling punches a couple years ago during our CONAN rpg campaigns).
jh
It depends
if you mean "can the first dice roll of the first combat of the campaign kill me", then hands down it is SPI's dragonquest....closely followed by rolemaster
both these games will do for you with a single d100 roll. they have no fate point system.
PF is actually very dangerous. a 20 on the first roll, and a confirm on the second, and your 1st level is dead to the orcs falchion
D&D basic is lethal too. roll your hitpoints at 1st and dead at 0 hp's.
Games w/o fate, fortune, etc are the most deadly to your new PC
WHFRP 2nd isnt that deadly. it is the slow grind death because of low % to hit, chances to dodge and parry, fate and fortune points, et al
Definitely Paranoia. I lost my first clone during the mission briefing.
Definitely Paranoia. I lost my first clone during the mission briefing.
True that, mine was asked to "report immediately to the nearest convenient disintegration center" on the way to mission briefing...
Definitely Paranoia. I lost my first clone during the mission briefing.True that, mine was asked to "report immediately to the nearest convenient disintegration center" on the way to mission briefing...
You got lucky. My clone was reassigned to work the food vats. At least your death was quick and painless.
Yellow Clearance Black Box Blues ^____^
Real Life
2012th Edition
S.L.A. Industries, I lost three characters in three game sessions.
I have to agree with Paranoia, I had one player lose 2 of his clones during character creation.
He filled in his secret society twice while filling out his Mandatory Bonus Duty form.
Paranoia, hands down.
WFRP (first edition) is quite deadly, as well. As are Cyberpunk 2020 and Shadowrun.
Last time I played, Phoenix Command tended to be rather brutal, as well.
Hackmaster 4th not only can you die on character creation but you could also end up a blind, deaf, and mute paraplegic with multiple personalities and daddy issues.
Also rot grubs (instadeath in 2 rounds at 20th level), Anthraxians ("look its a puppy, OH GOD IT BURNS!"), and carniverous sheep...every thing is designed to kill you.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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GURPS is pretty lethal if you use the core combat rules and try to play it like D&D. Imagine a 3.X/PF game in which weapons do their normal damage, but if you get hit, you're stunned for a round. Also some weapons do an extra 50% or 100% damage. Also you only have 10-15 hp, and that number never increases.
Yup. Plus if you take a single wound whose damage is more than half your Health, then make a Health roll or get knocked down. And it takes two turns to stand up again.
Oh, but wait! All this just means that the system is lethal to the PLAYER CHARACTERS! Most of the really cool monsters - even relatively small monsters with absurdly low point totals - have a very high Health score, so even when you reduce them to 0 hit points or less, they'll keep making their Health checks, at which they'll almost always succeed, to stay conscious. THEY stay conscious. You don't, because you have to make a Health check EVERY TURN to stay conscious, and YOU have a good chance of failure. To kill one of those monsters, you have to reduce it to NEGATIVE FIVE TIMES its Health! YOUR character, on the other hand, will almost certainly die when reduced to negative ONE times your Health, or very shortly thereafter.
So you could kill a monster... with a rifle. But not with pistols, let alone primitive weapons like swords!
(I'll admit that I've never tried GURPS 4th edition. I base my statements only on 3rd.)
Feint is your friend. ;)
Mechwarrior 3rd
The character creation charts couldn't kill your character outright, but they'd make your character wish he was dead.
Combat was lethal, both outside the mechs, and inside where a lucky shot from a rifle could breach the mech.
And the effort to roll up your character and stat him out could drive you to suicide.
i loved every second of it.
forgot I started this.
Went to say Cyberpunk.
In 16 days, it's 2013.
The circle is now complete.
who'd have thunk it, by 2013, we really would be living in a cyber punk world ruled by powerful corporate interests ;)