I've been wondering and I can't help thinking they've rushed this too fast.
If they really wanted this merged worlds thing why didn't they base 4e core on this POL and then reveal this Empire of Nerath aftermath as the OTHER part of Faerun thereby by putting the release of 4e Faerun back a year by releasing scenarios that detail the real reason behind the eventual changes they can work around the problems and not behave like some power control freak who cannot stand it when other people point out the mistakes in their creations.
I'd think it would be great if they kept us thinking this new campaign setting was truly a new setting before having this merger where we learn that the great change that Mystra's end brings about is actually yhe only hope of BOTH worlds and rather than run roughshod over the previous editions they refine it and provide a good reason for the changes not this rubbish thats been released so far.
Personally I think they must have been forced into this debacle because if they truly have the talents they've supposedly possess this really makes no sense at all...
Please debate on this, this might not be the best place but I do need some feedback before trying to address on either enworld or wizard community.
Oh happy new year by the way, take care and all the best!
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The best thing to do with 4E Forgotten Realms if you actually (shudder) want to play 4E Forgotten Realms is to completely ignore their horrendous changes to the setting. Make it 3.5 Realms with 4E mechanics. So basically do what WotC should have done, but decided to take the low road to try to fleece their customers even more. Just make sure to print out the SRD for the core 4e books or buy them used so that WotC doesn't get a cent from you. If they want to trash our game, then we need to speak with our wallets and send Richard Baker, Bill Slavisek, David Noonan and company to the unemployment lines.
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I don't know how they could have been forced into making such decisions. I think they just didn't care, despite all the work they've done on the Realms in the past. It's been stated by Rich Baker (among others, I think Chris Perkins also said this at one point) that they Realms needed to change so new players could come in without feeling the overwhelming weight of the history of the setting, and so novelists could write stories without needing to know the history. How frikkin' lazy is that? How tough is it to do some research? I know some of the novelists are very good and hard workers... but who are these lazy writers who can't be bothered to learn the first thing about the setting in which they are writing? That's the bit that bugs me the most, I guess.
It's like they only listened to the people who don't like the Realms and decided to change it to suit them. If people didn't like the Realms before, chances are they did find a setting they enjoyed. Now that it's all different, what's going to make these people who complained about the Realms switch to it from the one they already enjoy? It's a ridiculous plan that isn't going to work. Like many of the things they've done that surround 4e, it's absolutely ridiculous.
I definitely will not be needing to buy *any* 4e Realms material. I don't care if they did back a dumptruck full of money up to Ed Greenwood's door to try to buy some credibility for their hatchet job.
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You've nailed it hmarcbower. The joke is that Drizzt is hate just as much as Mystra and her Chosen but has avoided death because his novels sell. As someone that works in a bookstore, I can tell you something that's never ceased to amaze me. A large number of people who read and only read the Drizzt novels and have never tired the Dragonlance novels and didn't even know that the other Forgotten Realms books were in the same world as Drizzt until I told them. They were even more surprised to find out the novels had anything to do with D&D.
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It's not like you have to know everything in all of the FR sourcebooks or novels to run or play in a FR campaign. This is especially true if you are using a pre-written adventure. It already has everything in it you need to know for the adventure. It is laziness, but what do you expect from people who are too lazy to even rename the gods they are stealing from other settings for their hodgepodge 4E pantheon?
There's a Forgotten Realms setting in 4E? Where?
Oh, are you talking about that book with the Forgotten Realms name on it for 4E? The one saying it's Forgotten Realms but it really isn't? I see.
Yeah, talk about completely destroying a setting. The Realms got shafted by the Nazi---I mean---the WotC Party big time. The designers are a riot, too.
They stated they haven't had a Realms game in over a year because they felt like they couldn't play in the Realms correctly without reading over all the material.
Um, I don't understand what these awesome, powerful, almighty designers can't figure out that you don't HAVE to read all the material. If you want to run a game in Cormyr reading only 1 page, several pages, or an entire book on Cormyr, that's the gamer's choice. Then they say they want to remove all the need for the lore? Last time I checked, the Realms lasts 20 years because people LIKED how detailed it was. Too many deities? That's what you get in a RICHLY DETAILED setting. Deal with it. No one has to KNOW every single FR deity in order to play FR.
I am stunned that Ed Greenwood is actually going to ride this out. He's worried (hell, we all better be) about what will happen to it but he thinks he can try and save pieces of it.
At what I heard they've done and read what they WILL do to the Realms, there's really not much left to save.
The Realms is dead.
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Last time I checked, the Realms lasts 20 years because people LIKED how detailed it was.
Last time I checked, newer people tended to avoid playing FR games for just the reasons the WotC designers avoided playing there. They had to do something about it and while I'm not exited about it, I understand their reasons. But I think they overreacted a bit.
Too many deities? That's what you get in a RICHLY DETAILED setting. Deal with it. No one has to KNOW every single FR deity in order to play FR.
I really hope that you're wrong because I like my Golarion with 20 Gods.
The Realms is dead.
"Your" Realms are dead.
The core 4e pantheon isn't really all that small, by my reading at least. If that's a positive or not I'm not sure. I'd expect that the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide to detail a similar number of deities.
List of 4e Gods
- Bahamut (Valor, Good Dragons, Dragonborn)
- Tiamat (Vengeance, Evil Dragons, Dragonborn)
- Moradin (Crafting, Dwarves)
- Correllon (Magic, Eladrin)
- Sehanine (Moon, Elves)
- Obad Hai (Forest, Agriculture)
- Avandra (Luck, Chance, Halflings)
- Asmodeus (Deceit, Devils)
- Pelor (Sun, Humans)
- Kord (Strength, Storms)
- Bane (War, Tyranny)
- Vecna (Secrets)
- Ioun (Magic, Knowledge)
- Erathis (Civilization)
- The Raven Queen (Death, the Dead, Winter)
- Zehir (Night)
- Torog (?)
- Gruumsh (Orcs, Slaughter)
- Lolth (Drow, Treachery)
- Tharizdun (Evil, Demons)
- Melora (Wilderness)
Wizards has no interest in publishing anything about Greyhawk.
Yay!
Thank God for small mercies. Let's hope they have no plans for Planescape either.
Last time I checked, newer people tended to avoid playing FR games for just the reasons the WotC designers avoided playing there. They had to do something about it and while I'm not exited about it, I understand their reasons. But I think they overreacted a bit.
That's no one's fault but the ignorant. It's not hard to get people to like Forgotten Realms, really. Most people that didn't like Forgotten Realms really knew nothing about it other than "Drizz't" and "Elminster".
Yet, for some strange reason, it ended up as the very first campaign setting brought to 3rd Edition. If the Realms wasn't doing so well at all, why has it been doing so good for so many years?
All they had to do was present the Realms in a different way...not present a NEW REALMS entirely!
WotC has this strange dual-mentality. They say they don't want to split the fanbase, yet they're splitting it all over the place like shattered glass with the new material for 4th Edition and 4th Edition Realms.
"Your" Realms are dead.
I don't think you understand.
Tell me how 4E Realms has ANY similarities to previous Realms settings?
As the people at my hobby shop have stated, just like 4E isn't really D&D, just in name, the 4E Realms isn't really the Forgotten Realms, just in name only.
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It's not hard to get people to like Forgotten Realms, really.
This isn't about "likings". It is about the fact that it is impossible to run the "true" realms because it is impossible to memorize all the knowledge you would need to. Which causes each and every single player to have another mental image of what the realms are like. I have played in enough groups where the differences in player knowledge would cause problems at some point of an campaign. Those problems mustn't be unsolvable but they exist. And it begins with the 3E FRCS. Due to space problems, there is lot of information from 2nd Ed. left out. So if you don't want to read through all the old stuff (that's what I did but I like reading anyway and it took me a long time) you have to make up your own stuff (and so creating alternative realms no. xxxxx).
There was a quite enlightening answer from Eric L. Boyd when he was critizised for including "tethyrian" as a bonus language in his "Vampires at Waterdeep"-Campaign arc. The mistake he admitted to have made was to confuse a homerule with the official "lore". It is not a big thing but such things happen all the time. And the consequently following discussions between GM and player are as a matter of fact an unnecessary waste of time.
All they had to do was present the Realms in a different way
Actually, thats what they do. They use a world-shaking event (which I dislike as I disliked the Times of Trouble) but that doesn't make the "new" Realms a new world. Though I understand if you prefer the old state.
I don't think you understand.
Having read some of your previous posts I understand quite well.
As the people at my hobby shop have stated, just like 4E isn't really D&D, just in name, the 4E Realms isn't really the Forgotten Realms, just in name only.
And with all due respect, I have a contrary opinion. Don't get me wrong, though. I love the "old" realms and I had much preferred if WotC had chosen another way of simplifying things. And I love 3.5 and if I'll convert to 4E mainly depends on what Paizo does.
I've already posted about why I'm not moving on to 4th edition, but as a day one Realms fan - I think they should have let this one go. The reason I got into the Realms in the first place was that I had been playing in a Greyhawk campaign for quite a while, and thought I'd spend the money on the new world and run it since my buddy did that for Greyhawk. Honestly, we spent most of the time from then till recently in the Moonshae Isles and Savage Frontier (and a little bit here and there.) Because of Eliminster, not one PC ever spent a copper in Shadowdale. What the heck was he -a wizard/fighter/spellfire wielder with psionics or something like that? I think now they took the psionics away for 3rd and added a few levels of cleric and archmage.
Now, a lot of people argued that Greyhawk sucked because it was so old, and now you can look at the Realms and even Krynn as old timers. I think that rolling out a new game should have been followed up with a new campaign world. Don't just borrow Gods and drop racial portfolios or world origins etc. I think they're hoping that some name recognition will get people excited - but I can see from the posts, it's actually driving some people off, myself included. I bought into all the new worlds as they came out - yes I bought Hollow World and the Horde, and aside from Dark Sun, Eberron is the worst. A lot of my players feel the same - you either love it or hate it. We'd all be interested in a new campaign world - something new and epic. But, oh well - perhaps in 09 or something they'll come up with something original.
On a side note:
I didn't see it in print, but I keep hearing the succubus is going to be a devil now...so what are they going to do with erinyes? Oh yeah, it's not supposed to make sense. Good thing I didn't spend $75 or whatever on the two Fiendish Codexes...
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There's a Forgotten Realms setting in 4E? Where?
Oh, are you talking about that book with the Forgotten Realms name on it for 4E? The one saying it's Forgotten Realms but it really isn't? I see.
Yeah, talk about completely destroying a setting. The Realms got shafted by the Nazi---I mean---the WotC Party big time. The designers are a riot, too.
They stated they haven't had a Realms game in over a year because they felt like they couldn't play in the Realms correctly without reading over all the material.
Um, I don't understand what these awesome, powerful, almighty designers can't figure out that you don't HAVE to read all the material. If you want to run a game in Cormyr reading only 1 page, several pages, or an entire book on Cormyr, that's the gamer's choice. Then they say they want to remove all the need for the lore? Last time I checked, the Realms lasts 20 years because people LIKED how detailed it was. Too many deities? That's what you get in a RICHLY DETAILED setting. Deal with it. No one has to KNOW every single FR deity in order to play FR.
I am stunned that Ed Greenwood is actually going to ride this out. He's worried (hell, we all better be) about what will happen to it but he thinks he can try and save pieces of it.
At what I heard they've done and read what they WILL do to the Realms, there's really not much left to save.
The Realms is dead.
I acutally meant the pantheon for their core "points of light" setting. You know the one where they stole Tharizdun, Azmodeous, and Bahamut, etc. from Greyhawk, and Bane from FR without even bothering to change their names. We don't know much about how the 4E Realms pantheon is going to shape up other than it will be missing a number fo gods.
At what I heard they've done and read what they WILL do to the Realms, there's really not much left to save.
The Realms is dead.
Oh noes! *checks the sky apprehensively*
LOL, Razz, your online name is appropriate. :)
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The core 4e pantheon isn't really all that small, by my reading at least. If that's a positive or not I'm not sure. I'd expect that the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide to detail a similar number of deities.
This is a joke, right?
After that shtick about it being hard to figure out how a cleric honors a deity of doorways or agriculture by going on an adventure, this is the pantheon they came up with?List of 4e Gods
- Bahamut (Valor, Good Dragons, Dragonborn) Valor in dungeons, OK,
- Tiamat (Vengeance, Evil Dragons, Dragonborn) And vengeance.
- Moradin (Crafting, Dwarves) Crafting - "For the holy loom!"
- Correllon (Magic, Eladrin) Magic - Fair
- Sehanine (Moon, Elves) Moon - "Full moons make me so cwazy!"
- Obad Hai (Forest, Agriculture) Ummm . . .
- Avandra (Luck, Chance, Halflings) Luck & Chance - Live or die!
- Asmodeus (Deceit, Devils) Deceit - "I lied about adventuring."
- Pelor (Sun, Humans) Sun - Gotta have the sun with the moon.
- Kord (Strength, Storms) Storms - That blows.
- Bane (War, Tyranny) Only if you conquer the dungeon.
- Vecna (Secrets) Dungeons have secrets..
- Ioun (Magic, Knowledge) Knowledge - "We named the dog Indiana."
- Erathis (Civilization) Best honored by rummaging in old ruins.
- The Raven Queen (Death, the Dead, Winter) "Now is the winter of my discontent made glorious summer by this Sun of Pelor!"
- Zehir (Night) "Only in eternal night am I fulfilled!"
- Torog (?) I do not get it either.
- Gruumsh (Orcs, Slaughter) Can we slaughter this list?
- Lolth (Drow, Treachery) Because dungeon betrayals are the best!
- Tharizdun (Evil, Demons) This whole list is pretty evil.
- Melora (Wilderness) "The natural beauty of a dungeon!"
So let me see . . .
Good - 4 (Bahamut, Tiamat, Avandra, Vecna)
Reasonable - 3 (Corellon, Bane, Gruumsh)
Fair - 6 1/2 (Asmodeus, Kord 1/2, The Raven Queen, Zehir, Torog, Lolth, Tharizdun)
Silly - 6 1/2 (Moradin, Sehanine, Pelor, Kord 1/2, Ioun, Erathis, Melora)
Self-Defeating - 1 (Obad-hai)
I fail my will save versus absurdity.
Wait . . .
I mean, he rolled a critical hit with his absurdity attack against my Will defense.
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This is a joke, right?
After that shtick about it being hard to figure out how a cleric honors a deity of doorways or agriculture by going on an adventure, this is the pantheon they came up with?List of 4e Gods
This is actually the thing which disturbs me most. They must have known that no one will like this pantheon. I mean, I never used the 3.5 Core Pantheon 'cause I recognized it as the Greyhawk Pantheon and unluckily my players weren't willing to give GH a try.
But this one I can't and won't use anywhere. Sure, for new players it doesn't make a difference where those names stem from but they could just as easily have invented new names for their new pantheon. This just makes no sense at all.
It's not like you have to know everything in all of the FR sourcebooks or novels to run or play in a FR campaign. This is especially true if you are using a pre-written adventure. It already has everything in it you need to know for the adventure. It is laziness, but what do you expect from people who are too lazy to even rename the gods they are stealing from other settings for their hodgepodge 4E pantheon?
My guess is that they think people are simply too stupid to play in the old realms, so they dumb it down. It seems a continuing design philosophy for 4e: "People are apparently stupid, so sell them something even those morons can understand." I find that pretty arrogant from Wizards
I didn't see it in print, but I keep hearing the succubus is going to be a devil now...so what are they going to do with erinyes?
Well, they're actually going back to the definition, apparently. Somewhere - wish I could remember where - I saw that the term "Erinyes" means the same thing as "Succubus" (something like one's Greek and the other's Latin or some such - or both draw from the same Furies myth; something like that).
That's wrong.
Succubi apparently first appeared in western medieval legend, and are demons who seduce men in dreams. They were an attempt by the church to explain wet dreams.
The word succubus is derived from the late Latin succuba, which means strumped. The literal translation of sub-cubus is "I lie below". The male demons who used the semen stolen by succuby to impregnate women (an explanation to pregnancies out of wedlock) is called incbus ("I lie on top")
Erinyes, on the other hand were female personifications of vengeance in Greek Mythology (the Romans called theirs Furies). Back then, they punished humans for breaking the natural laws. When not doing that, they usually hang out in Tartarus, tormenting the souls of the damned - which is probably why they were turned into devils in D&D
So Wizards doesn't only trample D&D's own history under foot, but the underlying real world mythology as well.
Personally, I'm done with the Realms. I used to buy every 3e book - novel or RPG book - they released for the Realms, but not any more. I'm interested in whether their new customers will stick around, and buy the same amount of stuff I used to. I wouldn't bet a piece of gum on it.
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I really hope that you're wrong because I like my Golarion with 20 Gods.
I doubt that will last.
I've already seen mention on the boards of monsters worshipping demons (a situation which, for all intents and purposes creates new gods - unless you're playing an epic campaign) and haven't we, four books in, already had a giant god tossed in as an aside despite the talk of no racial gods?
I'm sure that the Paizo writers are well-intentioned but with the variety of all the gamesmastery modules and the rich levels of background coming through in Pathfinder, plus a campaign setting and classic monsters revisited, etc. etc. (basically more than 2 books a month) we're bound to end up with extra gods. I expect that we're looking at a 20 god 'core pantheon' with a whole lot of obscure gods from different parts of the world cropping up from various sources.
I'm fine with that - if I get mixed up there's bound to be an expert on the boards who can explain it all to me :D
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This is actually the thing which disturbs me most. They must have known that no one will like this pantheon. I mean, I never used the 3.5 Core Pantheon 'cause I recognized it as the Greyhawk Pantheon and unluckily my players weren't willing to give GH a try.
But this one I can't and won't use anywhere. Sure, for new players it doesn't make a difference where those names stem from but they could just as easily have invented new names for their new pantheon. This just makes no sense at all.
The names do not bother me.
It is that they make the things the pantheon will represent an issue, then produce a pantheon where a majority of the deities represent things they said were inappropriate.Is that a total breakdown in communication?
Or just the best excuse someone could think of to try and justify a change?
Either way, it severely unimpresses me.
This isn't about "likings". It is about the fact that it is impossible to run the "true" realms because it is impossible to memorize all the knowledge you would need to. Which causes each and every single player to have another mental image of what the realms are like. I have played in enough groups where the differences in player knowledge would cause problems at some point of an campaign. Those problems mustn't be unsolvable but they exist. And it begins with the 3E FRCS. Due to space problems, there is lot of information from 2nd Ed. left out. So if you don't want to read through all the old stuff (that's what I did but I like reading anyway and it took me a long time) you have to make up your own stuff (and so creating alternative realms no. xxxxx).
See, you have the exact same problem the designers said they did. And what the both of you failed to realize, is one thing:
You don't have to read all the information to play a Forgotten Realms game.
If you want to run in Cormyr and only read ONE page about it. Fine. If you want to read several pages on Cormyr and run a game in it, fine. If you want to read ALL information on Cormyr and run it, more power to you.
None of those three options is the wrong way to play the Realms. Why do people have it in their heads that you have to read all Realms info to get into the Realms? It's there because it's a wonderfully rich, and beautiful campaign setting, like a gorgeous tapestry. It's a rich, bountiful banquet. If you want to sample everything, go for it. If you only want to stick with the appetizers or skip to dessert, good. If you want to eat it all, have fun!
And, last I checked, Player knowledge means nothing in the game. That's called "meta-gaming" and all DMs should do their job and highly discourage it. It's the DMs setting, so what he says goes. If Player 1 says,"You can't let him rule the War Wizards of Cormyr, Vangerdahast in is charge of the War Wizards." and another says,"Who the hell is Vangerdahast?" then it's up to the DM to solve that problem. If the DM doesn't know, he tells Player 1,"It's my storyline, Vangerdahast doesn't exist in order for my story to work, or he suddenly disappeared and left it in charge of his character."
Simple.
Actually, thats what they do. They use a world-shaking event (which I dislike as I disliked the Times of Trouble) but that doesn't make the "new" Realms a new world. Though I understand if you prefer the old state.
Ed Greenwood HIMSELF stated on the Candlekeep Forums that he has been vehemently against the changes, he is very worried what will happen to the Realms, because it's NOT the same Realms and he's only staying because he wants to salvage what can be salvaged. Hence, he is writing 50,000 words in the setting book. Yes, it's that bad what they're doing to the Realms all in preparation for their great and powerful 4th Edition.
Why do people have it in their heads...
To me it doesn't matter why. They just do. And WotC is going to go to every DM and explain to them that you don't need to have a PHD in Realmslore to run a game, FR sales will stay lower than their potential.
If the changes get more people to play the Realms and allows the Realms to be profitable, more power to WotC. It's their property. The same goes for Eberron, Greyhawk and D&D in general.
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See, you have the exact same problem the designers said they did.
Actually I haven't. I just like reading everything I can get my hands on.
You don't have to read all the information to play a Forgotten Realms game.
You're absolutely right. I don't have to. But I want to. And as it seems I'm not the only one. Which is something WotC has to take into consideration
]Why do people have it in their heads that you have to read all Realms info to get into the Realms?
Why should I play in the Realms if I don't wanna use all the information available? I'm perfectly able to write one page about a fantasy country for myself. Heck, I could use any of the countries from the Superstar contest and have a lot of fun with it. But it is the richness in detail which makes the Realms appealing to me. This is what makes the Realms unique. If I neglect this why should I run the Realms at all?
]If you want to eat it all, have fun!
But what if you want to but haven't the time to? If this is the case, why shouldn't you use another setting with less details but possibly more internal consistency ?
Player knowledge means nothing in the game.
Great idea. If a player decides to stem from the Moonshaes because he likes what he has read about it and three sessions later I ask him "Druids? What Druids? There is a mage academy at the Moonshae's capitol, Calimshan. But no Druids." I'm sure he will be eternally thankful for this innovative change in the setting.
If I suggest to my players to start a campaign in the realms they'll agree or disagree based on their knowledge and their expectations. This is something I have to take into account as a DM. If I don't, I'm a lousy one.
You don't have to read all the information to play a Forgotten Realms game.You're absolutely right. I don't have to. But I want to. And as it seems I'm not the only one. Which is something WotC has to take into consideration
Now, you're not alone. I liked knowing a lot about the world, too. But now I don't know that world anymore, and I don't want to reacquaint with it, since it lost all appeal to me.
Ed Greenwood HIMSELF stated on the Candlekeep Forums that he has been vehemently against the changes, he is very worried what will happen to the Realms, because it's NOT the same Realms and he's only staying because he wants to salvage what can be salvaged. Hence, he is writing 50,000 words in the setting book. Yes, it's that bad what they're doing to the Realms all in preparation for their great and powerful 4th Edition.
I have to break my vow of no 4th edition threads for this one. I don't like what I've heard about 4th edition, nor the 4th edition Realms. However, I don't want to see Ed's comment misconstrued to support an argument.
Ed has said that its not what he would have done, and he would have rather had more time to explore people and places that will now be out of reach, but that he loves the Realms and wants to see them continue, and wants to remain a part of them.
Its not a rousing endorsement, but its not the "vehement opposition" that you cite either.
I encourage anyone that wants to read and interpret Ed's words directly, to check out this thread at Candlekeep:
Wise Words from Ed Regarding 4th Edition
And as with most things 4th edition, the hysteria and hyperbole on both sides is somewhat maddening. A base level knowledge of the setting would make sense if you want to use the setting, i.e. the general themes of a given region, what classes, races, alignments, etc. are prevalent. What is not required is an encyclopedic knowledge of every novel written about the region, or a detailed memorization of every corner of a given sourcebook or Volo's Guide on the area.
I wholly respect Ed for all he's done from the day FR came out and I deciphered the runes on the logo and bought everything with that logo on it, through now and beyond - even though he's a dirty old man - (Spellfire, 7 sisters, Storm clad only in boots serving drinks. Something tells me that's out of the "Realm" of the new target shoppers, I mean, gamers) But his point on 4E is well made, although it doesn't sway my opinion in the slightest. And I, for one, am glad that it isn't going to evolve completely sans Ed. Though deep inside, he can't be happy with it, even though he isn't going to let his "baby" go completely. (And I can see why he wouldn't openly oppose it since he's going to be working with it and doesn't want to lose Candlekeep or the rest of the grand Realms.) If it's gotta go, it's going in the arms of its father.
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However, I don't want to see Ed's comment misconstrued to support an argument.
I just wanted to ask for a link proving Razz' claim because it absolutely didnt't sound like Ed at all. So thanks for the correction (being a silent reader on candlekeep I knew his wise words beforehand).
What is not required is an encyclopedic knowledge of every novel written about the region, or a detailed memorization of every corner of a given sourcebook or Volo's Guide on the area.
Just to make this clear, I never made the claim that it is required (though I would like it if it was possible for me to memorize all things written about the FR). In fact, I'm well aware that my Realms largely deviate from published material. And I don't consider this to be a bad thing. But everytime I'm running a realms game for new people ( who may or may not know realmslore better than me) there's a need for discussion before you can even start playing because it's not a good thing to discuss things in the middle of the game instead. And with more than 20 years of collected Realmslore, this is a problem for the Forgotten Realms more than for any other setting I know about.
I think that at its basics it is the right decision for WotC to do something about the "One Realms variant per player"-situation. I also think that the reconstruction of the new Realms mustn't have been so total as it looks like right know. But as Ed wisely remarked there is a chance that I actually will like the post-spellplague Realms. I doubt it, but I won't deny the possibility
Well, we no longer have to use the word "alleged" before we talk about the timeline jump:
Once again, click on the "printer friendly" option at the bottom of the page in you can't log in.
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Ioun is a god?
You mean, like, with the stones?
Since there's been a discussion on this thread about the Realms, I'd like to point out that in "official" Realms at least one "Ioun" was an early Netherese Arcanist named Congenio Ioun. Congenio was known for, among other things, enchanting small, delicate objects per magical theory of his time. His most popular works, "Congenio's Pebbles" were renamed "Ioun Stones" after his death.
Just wanted to chime in about that tidbit.
Have a good weekend.
I didn't see it in print, but I keep hearing the succubus is going to be a devil now...so what are they going to do with erinyes?
Well, they're actually going back to the definition, apparently. Somewhere - wish I could remember where - I saw that the term "Erinyes" means the same thing as "Succubus" (something like one's Greek and the other's Latin or some such - or both draw from the same Furies myth; something like that).
4E is claiming they are and have always been the same thing.
To my knowledge, they are not the same creature.
The Greeks had the Furies who punished mortals who thwarted the gods, tearing them to pieces or otherwise tormenting them. I believe these are the Erinyes of D&D-dom. The succubus was an entirely different creature, a fiend who inspired lust in mortals, etc., and acquired the portfolio of soul-stealing somewhere along the way. This type of creature goes back to the most ancient records we have (cuniform tablets). So, actually, switching the respective home camps of the Erinyes and the Succubi would actually make sense, mythologically speaking in light of the new D&D cosmology. But did they just get of the Erinyes rather than swapping them?
BTW, where are folks getting all these details on FR changes? I don't pay much attention to wizards.com since they stopped bothering to post errata of any significance, nor do I bother with EN World.
Well, we no longer have to use the word "alleged" before we talk about the timeline jump:
Once again, click on the "printer friendly" option at the bottom of the page in you can't log in.
Well, for one thing, the link in the above quote . . . ;)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Well, we no longer have to use the word "alleged" before we talk about the timeline jump:
Once again, click on the "printer friendly" option at the bottom of the page in you can't log in.
Wow...
Wow...
Wow...
Well, the Realms as I know them are dead. Time to have a wake.
Well, we no longer have to use the word "alleged" before we talk about the timeline jump:
Once again, click on the "printer friendly" option at the bottom of the page in you can't log in.
Wow...
Wow...
Wow...
Well, the Realms as I know them are dead. Time to have a wake.
*blink*
WTF?! My homeland seems to have been colored over with a whole new ugly mess.
I'm off to that wake.
So, what, are they high? Was this history written by ADD 13-year-olds?
[edit: no offense to any ADD teens that may be reading this. :)]
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I think I almost threw up a little reading that.
The Forgotten Realms Grey boxed set was the first time I discovered the concept of a "Game Setting". Before that, we were just playing adventures with no thought of world concepts. But the Grey Box changed that, now I had new ideas, new concepts and, well, an all new Realm to explore and for the first time for me, to DM.
The Realms is where I learned to be a Dungeon Master. It was exactly what I wanted, lots of details, I love the fluff. I specially loved how they blended the nations with bits of real world history, because as a history buff it allowed me to "get it" right away.
The Realms novels got me back into reading novel again and also brought life to the people fo the Realms by giving them a voice. They inspired me to create my own Realms in places; A half elven nation, an island of Psionicists and more. My favorite PCs are from the Realms and my most memorable sesions as a Player and as a DM all came from the Forgotten Realms,.... and now it is gone.
I think I realize the one thing that I "hate" the most about 4E, taking someone elses work and trashing it. Think about just how many writers, designers, artists, authors and gamers actually created the Realms that we knew. Add to that all the home-brewed settings out there.
And now it is gone...just like that. Of course they didn't destroy all of it. They kept the parts they liked and used, but the rest, just tear it up and throw it in the trash. What are they, 5 years old??
I really don't understand why. Why not create a new core setting built around 4E? One of the reasons Eberron works so well with 3E is because it was created by those rules. There was no adapting it, this is how it was from the start. And for 4E to succeed, it needs a setting crafted specifically for its rules. Re-writing the Realms, just destroys all the work other authors and designers did in the first place.
Ninety-four years ago, Mystra perished and the world went mad....In many places, the Spellplague wrought drastic changes to the very shape of the world. The vast Underdark system beneath the western Shaar suffered a calamitous collapse, leaving a miles-deep pit the size of a country where the Landrise once ran. Thay’s forbidding plateaus were lifted thousands of feet higher, leaving many of its cities in ruins. The Priador and eastern Thesk are a maze of monster-haunted foothills beneath Thay’s daunting ramparts now. Fencelike ridges of glass spires, drifting earthmotes covered in weird aerial forests, towering mesas of whorled stone… all over Faerûn magical landscapes are interspersed with the common rock and root of the lands that existed before. Even in countries that survived the Spellplague more or less intact, these “changelands” stand as striking new landmarks—landmarks that sometimes harbor monsters never before seen in Faerûn.
Because you can't keep your old campaign anyway, and because someone finally explained planned obsolescence to the D&D team. Did they learn nothing from the outcry against the time of troubles?
No one will ever be able to create a comprehensive chronology of where and when each outbreak struck, or how each town and city fared through the chaos of the Plague Years. Countless thousands of people fled from each new outbreak, migrating here and there across the continent. War, rebellion, and brigandage reigned unchecked. Mad prophets walked the world, preaching that the Spellplague was the wrath of this god or that and demanding repentance, sacrifice, or holy war in atonement. Anarchy descended over most kingdoms and lasted for a generation or more before some semblance of authority was reestablished. The world that emerged from the Plague Years was not the same Faerûn.
Because the same Faerun is kind of like the same refrigerator or washing machine or Shakespeare. The kids won't like it if it is old.
The Spellplague left the cities of the Sword Coast almost unscathed. Perhaps it was attenuated by the lingering high magic of ancient Illefarn, perhaps it was deflected by the efforts of mighty heroes, or perhaps sheer chance steered the magical contagion away from the Sea of Swords; however it happened, the Sword Coast looks much as it did a hundred years ago.
"Guys, you can buttream the pen and paper games as much as you want, but don't mess with the computer game franchises. They need to stay current."
This brief discussion touches on only a few of Faerûn’s myriad kingdoms and peoples. It’s a quick sketch of how a century has changed several familiar lands, and a look at one new land that has arisen during that time. Many of Faerûn’s most iconic locales are still what they were a century ago; wood elves still roam the High Forest, and pirates still sail the Sea of Fallen Stars. Other places such as Unther have changed drastically, as described above. But above all Faerûn remains a land of high magic, terrifying monsters, ancient ruins, and hidden wonders—the essential fantasy world for your players to explore.
In upcoming previews, we’ll take a more thorough look at other aspects of the new Faerûn—the fate of the Chosen, the nature of the pantheon, how magic has changed in the world, and an introduction to some of the new threats that now menace Faerûn. Good fortune and good adventuring until next time!
Stock quote #4. The game remains the same.
I have a pet theory that the focus group or action team that developed the D&D movie franchise has just been promoted to heads of development.
"What are Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter like?"
"I don't know, but they have games named after them."
"Okay, Spellplague skips over them."
ya as a player this is the whole battle tech darkage thing alover again. wonder if wizkids and wotc share notes
