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One of the "problems" with Nick's adventures is the quality ...
Maybe they should just make Nick write suckier. :-PSam,
Your post made my Holiday Week. Thanks my man. I remember chatting with you at Gencon to the above effect and it made me smile then too. Glad the adventures are doing for you what I wanted them to do! Rock out with the smite evil Sam! There is much of it out there, and a whole lot more to come
::Nick looks at his work schedule, gnashes his teeth and gets back to his battered keyboard::
:-)
Yes, please Nick, write suckier. With vampires! Carotid-lapping, virgin-defiling vampires! Happy holidays!
EDIT: What I meant was, Don't change a thing. (Now that is sick and twisted...)
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Late as I'm coming to the conversation, I have a couple of points. To an extent, I agree with the OP. Nothing against Nick Logue personally, but some of the recent adventures with his byline are a bit 'over-the-top' for me. Without the use of spoilers, I admit that some of the suggestions for the 'future actions' of people in the adventure are not what I would choose.
While I fully agree with Nick about the nature of a true hero, for me a lot of D&D is about escapism. While I WANT to bring in more situations where some form of failure is the only result - but the real adventure comes in dealing with it - the players tend to get frustrated. If the players want heroic escapism, but they have to deal with consequences of failure, well, there is obviously a gap between expectation and result.
I like the explanation for why you gave some of the NPCs an unpleasant future - and I am aware of how easily I can change it. The one concern I have is that some of the future adventures may 'assume' things went a particular way in an earlier adventure. If future adventures start having a Shadowdancing Sheriff, well, it may be hard to keep using an ex-woodcutter because of the different abilities they have (assuming such abilities become important to the story).
Again, without spoilers, I will certainly change the rate at which innocents fall victim to events in E1. I will probably focus more on the grisly nature of it, and try to make some of the individuals that suffer ones the PCs know. I'd rather do a dozen or two dozen deaths but make sure they 'feel' them than to do a few hundred. And I think a slower pacing could do the adventure well.
That said, I really do like having the adventures to read. Even when I wouldn't do things the same way (if I were not being lazy and wrote a similar adventure from start to finish) they help expand my thoughts as far as future adventures I must design. By crossing the line, as another poster said, the line is defined.
So, while I will likely have to modify some adventures to get much use out of them, that's not always the case. But I don't want to destroy the town of Falcon's Hollow. I like it better than Sandpoint for a 'base', and while I'm only using it in a play by post D1 adventure, can't let it get completely destroyed. So, too much death possible in that adventure, and it is pretty grisly.
Having got an early sneak peak on "Hang Man" as it was coming together, I expect it will be a significant fan favorite, even by Logue's usual high-bar standards. Though it has probably changed a fair bit from when I saw it, I wouldn't miss it.
-MiKe
Though it does sound light on Shoanti.
-Ask
Also coming in late on this topic, I find it curiously refreshing to have Nicolas Logue's writing contain dark, dreary, and outright vile scenarios unfold. It's a tremendous change from the PC modules of yore where everyone would kiss at the end of the module because they won the day. Screw that. Every once in a while, it's satisfying to have evil win, to have plots not turn out as people might have predisposed themselves to expect, and to have events unfold that set players back in their shoes for a change. That's the heart of the stuff that drives characters to fight on!! Dark elements in adventures should be standard operating procedure imo when you're dealing with the innumerable evils a typical campaign world holds. Beowulf is a perfect example. Grendel marches into the festhall, and proceeds to bite off the head of a merc. Chomp, crunch, chomp. Now if THAT wouldn't get a player to react, I don't know what would. So many monsters in D&D are PC, in that, they do damage and perhaps some nice magical effect or two. Very clean, and very sanitized combat. When a Behir breathes lightning and hits, it should shred flesh into crackling little chunks that fly into the faces of the PCs, not simply do 8d6 points of damage. That's what D&D has lost, and I for one thank Mr. Logue for bringing some small element of that back to the game. It's about time.
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Check out Swords of Dragonslake, or Mask of Diamond Tears, or Chimes at Midnight, or Eyes of the Lich Queen, or Voyage of the Golden Dragon, or Library of Last Resort.
Which was what I was going to point out. Mr. Logue has a range of different types of adventures, and those up there do not contain excessive amounts of gore. Chimes' is an awesome urban, detective, chase story while Eyes' is a pulpy romp across Eberron.
Seems that only his recent contributions have delved into the gore and horror.
L (Loguist) : will contain torture, gore, depravity, and hopelessness.
EE (Everyone Else) : a wide variety of themes and approaches.
While unwarranted, I also found this hilarious.
It’s no wonder the modules are so morose; it’s tough to write about carebears and rainbows when you are getting bagged on all the time! I wonder if I would be so thick skinned? If you want Nick, I will give them an hour with my Italian mother. It’s almost Christmas, so she should be in full guilt mode.
What this thread needs are more chandeliers. With tentacles
Director of Narrative
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What this thread needs are more chandeliers. With tentacles
Those are gorgeous.
Oh yeah, screw that Logue dude.
Check out Swords of Dragonslake, or Mask of Diamond Tears, or Chimes at Midnight, or Eyes of the Lich Queen, or Voyage of the Golden Dragon, or Library of Last Resort.Which was what I was going to point out. Mr. Logue has a range of different types of adventures, and those up there do not contain excessive amounts of gore. Chimes' is an awesome urban, detective, chase story while Eyes' is a pulpy romp across Eberron.
Seems that only his recent contributions have delved into the gore and horror.
It's simple guys. He used to live in paradise now he rides the subway.
Do the math.
/. .\
.
\_/
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It's simple guys. He used to live in paradise now he rides the subway.
Do the math.
/. .\
.
\_/
*AHEM*
I LOVE the subway.
Rush hour is a pain, but then it is annoying no matter where you are in the city.
But at the right times, and on the right routes, the subway is glorious.
Cruising the elevated lines out to Rockaway.
Sliding through the tunnels with the closed stations of midtown.
The long, slow passages through Bronx and deep into Brooklyn or Queens.
People who have not experienced it simply do not know what they are missing.
And people who have and still do not like it are simply insensitive to the experience.
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Sam,
Your post made my Holiday Week. Thanks my man. I remember chatting with you at Gencon to the above effect and it made me smile then too. Glad the adventures are doing for you what I wanted them to do! Rock out with the smite evil Sam! There is much of it out there, and a whole lot more to come
::Nick looks at his work schedule, gnashes his teeth and gets back to his battered keyboard::
:-)
You are welcome Nick.
I have been trying for awhile to find a way to express that. I must admit, it feels rather silly saying something is too good. (I keep flashing to Amadeus. "Too many notes.")
The only problem with the smite evil is that I am the DM, and I do not get to do that. Still, I can not imagine running the Falcon's Hollow adventures with any planned plot other than letting the players give there all trying to clean the place up. Most of them would hate me for making them choose between some other grand story and trying to save the place, and I would agree with them!
Yes, I remember talking with you at Gen COn. I still want to find a way to get together and plot evil with you.
It should also be known that my personal gaming style is all about failure. Tragedy is a powerful storytelling tool, and in a place like Falcon's Hollow, heroes have a hard time triumphing. Sometimes the fight you win, wasn't the really important thing in life, and the real fight passed you by while you were myopically duking it out over territory already lost. Sometimes the only real sense of victory is when you just do what you can and try to pick up the pieces when it all falls apart anyways. To me, that's a true hero. The most moving heroics (to me at least) are not in overcoming adversity, but rather dealing with the horrific aftermath of a tragedy you were unable to avert, gritting your teeth through the tears and striving to continue the good fight in the face of abject failure and desperation. My favorite real life heroes are people who can admit when they didn't measure up and keep fighting the good fight, long after the battlefield is littered with pieces of their soul. This is my favorite kind of character to play.
Having used tragedy repeatedly in the Greyhawk background stuff I write, I completely understand what you mean. On all levels.
A good tragedy provides a frame for setting background, NPC background, and indeed quest set up.
What is a hero without a wrong to right?
How do you shine in the middle of the light?
Yeah, the epic stuff is epic. But it means nothing if everyone and everything else is sacrificed along the way.
I'm startled to find Logue's name associated with torture porn and splatterpunk. If it were Pett, that would be another matter. (Which is why I love Pett.) Logue's adventures aren't always to my taste...typically because I find them too genteel and cultured. No, I'm serious. Logue is a theater geek and there's a certain level of theatrical artifice to his work. If "Sweeney Todd" were ever adapted for D&D, Logue would be your man. Myself, I like my action a bit more raw. I hope Paizo doesn't take all this griping about R rated content too seriously. I haven't bought any of Logue's GameMastery modules, but now that I've heard they're hardcore, I think it might be time to spend some of my year end bonus.
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Coming late to thread, but I just wanted to say that the darker, grittier, bloodier themes in the Paizo adventures (both in the late Dungeon Magazine, in the GameMastery modules and in Pathfinder) are a strenght point for the whole line, at least for my tastes - and for those of my players and those other gamers with which I talked.
I understand that this overall style might not be OK for everyone else, but I just wanted to stress how much I appreciate the adult approach - evil corrupts the innocent, violence is horrendous, winning might mean just saving one's life to fight another day, and so on.
Yeah Logue, ya damn hack ;) I want the D&D adaptation of Titus Andronicus!
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It should also be known that my personal gaming style is all about failure. Tragedy is a powerful storytelling tool, and in a place like Falcon's Hollow, heroes have a hard time triumphing. Sometimes the fight you win, wasn't the really important thing in life, and the real fight passed you by while you were myopically duking it out over territory already lost. Sometimes the only real sense of victory is when you just do what you can and try to pick up the pieces when it all falls apart anyways. To me, that's a true hero. The most moving heroics (to me at least) are not in overcoming adversity, but rather dealing with the horrific aftermath of a tragedy you were unable to avert, gritting your teeth through the tears and striving to continue the good fight in the face of abject failure and desperation. My favorite real life heroes are people who can admit when they didn't measure up and keep fighting the good fight, long after the battlefield is littered with pieces of their soul. This is my favorite kind of character to play.
Nic, Nic! I've got a plot! We can work on it together. OK, the PCs have failed as adventurers, with all their gear stolen or sold to suport their sudoku habits. Their jobs are as dung shovellers in the city sewers. One day, they are shoveling away, and their shovels break, so they have to use their hands. Then, er... OK, I don't have anymore right now, but this sounds right up your street. Call me - I expect we'll be doing a conference call with Mike and James soon.
It’s no wonder the modules are so morose; it’s tough to write about carebears and rainbows when you are getting bagged on all the time! I wonder if I would be so thick skinned? If you want Nick, I will give them an hour with my Italian mother. It’s almost Christmas, so she should be in full guilt mode.
Ha! I've come to expect a weekly spanking on these boards. No worries, I'm in theatre, I doubt even the most amped up anti-Logueite here could come close to the ego crushing power that is a misguided and malevolent theatre critic.
Seriously though, I love this kind of feedback. In my experience we rpg gamers are passionate individuals who feel strongly about things and express ourselves. There is nothing wrong with that in my book.
:: Nick applies another dose of Acme Thick-Em-Skin and waits for next thread with the word "Logue" in the title::
Yeah Logue, ya damn hack ;) I want the D&D adaptation of Titus Andronicus!
I'm working on Jekyll/Hyde right now actually. Funnily enough, I'll keep everyone posted. And the number of requests I get for Phantom of the Opera D&Dified grows daily (I'm looking at you Kevin Turner!).
(I keep flashing to Amadeus. "Too many notes.")
Ha! This is my wife's very favorite movie. It's kind of the story of her life...no joke. She really is too good at directing sometimes. It's hilarious.
Someday I shall be Mozart to Ari Marmell's Saliere! ;-)
Or Rich Pett will be Mozart to my Saliere! :-0
Or Erik Mona will be Mozart to George Lucas' Saliere! :-p
It should also be known that my personal gaming style is all about failure. Tragedy is a powerful storytelling tool, and in a place like Falcon's Hollow, heroes have a hard time triumphing. Sometimes the fight you win, wasn't the really important thing in life, and the real fight passed you by while you were myopically duking it out over territory already lost. Sometimes the only real sense of victory is when you just do what you can and try to pick up the pieces when it all falls apart anyways. To me, that's a true hero. The most moving heroics (to me at least) are not in overcoming adversity, but rather dealing with the horrific aftermath of a tragedy you were unable to avert, gritting your teeth through the tears and striving to continue the good fight in the face of abject failure and desperation. My favorite real life heroes are people who can admit when they didn't measure up and keep fighting the good fight, long after the battlefield is littered with pieces of their soul. This is my favorite kind of character to play.Nic, Nic! I've got a plot! We can work on it together. OK, the PCs have failed as adventurers, with all their gear stolen or sold to suport their sudoku habits. Their jobs are as dung shovellers in the city sewers. One day, they are shoveling away, and their shovels break, so they have to use their hands. Then, er... OK, I don't have anymore right now, but this sounds right up your street. Call me - I expect we'll be doing a conference call with Mike and James soon.
Sadly, I've played this adventure already Aubrey. ;-)
For'sooth though, one of the best adventures I've ever heard of (every player who played it RAVES about it) was one where the PCs were homeless on the streets of New York in Call of Cthulhu (Lou Agresta from these boards ran this adventure for some mutual friends of ours and they talk about how awesome it was all the time...I'm sad I missed out on it). Sometimes hopless desperaton displays a kind of heroism you simply don't find among shiny armored knights their banners awave in the wind.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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Ha! I've come to expect a weekly spanking on these boards. No worries, I'm in theatre, I doubt even the most amped up anti-Logueite here could come close to the ego crushing power that is a misguided and malevolent theatre critic...:: Nick applies another dose of Acme Thick-Em-Skin and waits for next thread with the word "Logue" in the title::
Ha! You want a thick skin? Become a teacher.
Oh, I see by your bio you've done that. Nicholas Logue is a "Freelance Writer, Teacher, Actor, Stage Combat Choreographer".
Nope. No way to grow a thick skin in any of those professions.
Just to summarize a few elements that struck me:
1. Logue is really good;
2. Variety is really good;
3. Occasional horror adventures are really good; but
4. Too much of any one thing is not good.
These are things most of us seem to agree on. Now, I'll freely admit my bias as a Paizo "fanboy" or whatever you want to call it. Still, running off the list above, to my mind Paizo is hitting on all points.
As to Nicky himself, obviously Jebadiah also remembers the thread ranting about how "Logue can only do sissy low-violence theatre-based dialogue-fests." Now that he does a number of horror adventures in a row and we're claiming that's all he can do. Sure, he runs in spurts, but the spurts are often in wildly different directions. Why bring this up again? Well, I have to admit that it kind of turned my stomach to read him begging for "another chance." He shouldn't have to beg--his total track record (not just his recent horror adventures) should speak for itself. Just my opinion here--ignore it if you like, it won't hurt my feelings.
Nic, I keep meaning to drop you a line about Asian theatre... will do so shortly.
I LOVE the subway. Rush hour is a pain, but then it is annoying no matter where you are in the city. But at the right times, and on the right routes, the subway is glorious. Cruising the elevated lines out to Rockaway. Sliding through the tunnels with the closed stations of midtown. The long, slow passages through Bronx and deep into Brooklyn or Queens. People who have not experienced it simply do not know what they are missing. And people who have and still do not like it are simply insensitive to the experience.
Surprisingly, I'm in full agreement. I remember when you used to need an AK-47 to ride the subways safely, and you couldn't see out the windows because of all the graffitti. Those things have changed. Now all you need is a cel-phone jammer to cut down on the noise, and you're good to go. It's by far the cheapest, most convenient sightseeing trip around.
I'm sad that Houston can't have them (tunnels would stay flooded all year) and won't get surface rail lines (except the 1-mile downtown "scale model") because of the mass mania for trucks. But it's warmer here :)
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The best part about this is that I actually called Crown of the Kobold King a PG13 emo-fest. Sorry Nick, I really do like your adventures a lot. The pathfinder Ogres are my favorite monsters of all time now, bumping the wierd web-spitting cave monster from "slavelords" off of the list.
*I run a death/grind record label so I have been completely desensitized :(
What this thread needs are more chandeliers. With tentacles
I liked that pink one. Made me want to construct a truly bizarre room around it.
Alas the 10 grand pricetag squashes any such plans. I could have a man killed for 10 grand.
Hmm... why, for 10 grand I could probably have that artist captured as well, then keep him in my basement slave laboring to make all the tentacled chandeliers I'd ever want or need!
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Yeah Logue, ya damn hack ;) I want the D&D adaptation of Titus Andronicus!I'm working on Jekyll/Hyde right now actually. Funnily enough, I'll keep everyone posted. And the number of requests I get for Phantom of the Opera D&Dified grows daily (I'm looking at you Kevin Turner!).
Well I'll throw in a couple more broadway-inspired adventure ideas!
Cats - Tibbits ftw
A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum - I want to make one of my players play a eunuch.
Hair - You have been challenged!
Yeah Logue, ya damn hack ;) I want the D&D adaptation of Titus Andronicus!I'm working on Jekyll/Hyde right now actually. Funnily enough, I'll keep everyone posted. And the number of requests I get for Phantom of the Opera D&Dified grows daily (I'm looking at you Kevin Turner!).
Well I'll throw in a couple more broadway-inspired adventure ideas!
Cats - Tibbits ftw
A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum - I want to make one of my players play a eunuch.
Hair - You have been challenged!
Hair...ugh...you are a cruel sir. But I cannot refuse a challenge!!!
::Nick starts working on "Mane" an adventure about awakened lions and more than a few manticores whose penchant for song and dance overcome their murderous instincts at times::
The Sound of Music - a cleric/bard falls in love with a starchy paladin and his brood of children etc etc Dark Lord etc etc
By the way, I know you are into Chinese opera. Is Chinese opera as bloody as Western opera?
oh my, there goes another clichée. Having seen my fair share of opera (being a european degenrate of means and taste, and with access to a pretty good opera house within an hours drive ) , I wonder what makes you call it "bloody" ? And in comparison to what ? Or is someone generalising a bit ?
In all honesty - if one does not like one of the issues of the Gamemastery line - at roughly 11 Euro apiece, they come at roughly the same price tag as a evening at the cinema (munchies included ). Since I have had the misfortune to spend several evenings this year wincing at what was presented on the big screen.... I think I can bear the financial pain of buying something like "Seven Swords of Sin" which I actually don't like at all (IMHO it is a sub-par dungeon crawl.... YMMV), if I deal out cash for embarasssingly bad movies.
/raving lunatic ON
I would also like to climb the soap-boxin on behalf of Mr. Logue....
*bows*
Let's please ask ourselves just how many people actually do enjoy Mr. Logue's tremendous writing. It is creative, evocative and.... un-orthodox....
But since it is "R" rated, let's just burn all his books, bash his computer, tar and feather him, drive him out of the country and, last but not least, cancel our subscriptions because it might just offend someone somewhere.....
...am I being to much of a German?
/raving lunatic OFF
Hair...ugh...you are a cruel sir. But I cannot refuse a challenge!!!::Nick starts working on "Mane" an adventure about awakened lions and more than a few manticores whose penchant for song and dance overcome their murderous instincts at times::
When is that going to be published ?
*pulling out calendar and eyeing the piggy-bank*
Targets are marked. I await your call.
Do you like how "Mane" is going to be an adaptation of both Cats and Hair? ;-)
Nic, I keep meaning to drop you a line about Asian theatre... will do so shortly.
Fabes! I'm compiling a youtube list for you, and a bibliography, I'll email them to you soon, but I have to wait until I get to my library in NYC. Most of my favorite books are there.
Oh, and Merry Christmas Eve everyone!!!
Well Nick, I'm starting HMM in two weeks. I hope the nice, sheltered Chinese college freshman to whom I describe the obscenities found in the Graul house don't report me to the party secretary.
Well Nick, I'm starting HMM in two weeks. I hope the nice, sheltered Chinese college freshman to whom I describe the obscenities found in the Graul house don't report me to the party secretary.
Heh, you enjoy your Mongolian Gulag my friend. And Merry Christmas!
Nic - you are a diamond. Cheers muchly.
Now back to work!
It should also be known that my personal gaming style is all about failure.
Ouch! Well, that definitely is a strike against Logue, AFAIC.
Hopefully he can continue to grow beyond this when writing future published adventures for the masses.
It should also be known that my personal gaming style is all about failure.Ouch! Well, that definitely is a strike against Logue, AFAIC.
Hopefully he can continue to grow beyond this when writing future published adventures for the masses.
Ha! Again you might want to look at some of my other work before passing judgement Arnwyn. I like failure in my home games, doesn't mean that's what I dish out all the time. In fact I rarely tap this style in my writing. Falcon's Hollow is the only place really where I've let it out, and even so, it's because the place is very Deadwood inspired.
Failure's awesome though if you haven't tried it Arnwyn. Trust me. It brings new levels to the game and makes the victories all the more sweet when they come. Sometimes as a player, it's when my characters fail that I become the most inspired and try the hardest to succeed. It's more fun that way for me at least (and for most of the people I game with).
Don't get me wrong, every now and then I love a action-packed, you-can-do-no-wrong, take-the-world-by-storm feel good adventure too. I just get bored of righteous victory after righteous victory with no consequences if that's the way every game goes.
...I find it curiously refreshing to have Nicolas Logue's writing contain dark, dreary, and outright vile scenarios unfold. It's a tremendous change from the PC modules of yore where everyone would kiss at the end of the module because they won the day. Screw that.
Hear hear, Varl! This is EXACTLY why I like Nick's adventures: it's not the princess putting medals on the heroes at the end of every adventure. No, things happen, things that despite the change of events the PCs have caused they can't clean everything up. I like that Nick said (somewhere above) that he's leaving hooks for DMs to follow up with, that's great! There's an ending to the adventure but it doesn't have to close the door to further adventures nor does it have the DM casting aside all the NPCs he may have fleshed out along the way. I enjoy dark and gritty stories, the grim and dismal that seems like no matter how hard the PCs scrub the townsfolk might never get clean (The Seeds of Sehan 3-parter, Dungeon #145-147, had that kind of feeling.) Maybe it's because I'm older, that I know that not every fantasy story has to be knight-in-shining-armor: Thieves' World and The Black Company showed me this and I will ever applaud them for it. So I say, bring it on, Nick, I'll gladly wade through the vile muck with you any day.
- Chris Shadowens
Maybe it's because I'm older, that I know that not every fantasy story has to be knight-in-shining-armor: Thieves' World and The Black Company showed me this and I will ever applaud them for it. So I say, bring it on, Nick, I'll gladly wade through the vile muck with you any day.
- Chris Shadowens
Thanks Chris! You brightened my Xmas Eve! I too am a Huge fan of Thieves World and Black Company. My fantasy inner child was weaned on Black Company and Gath of Baal more than Tolkien truth be told. I'll keep the muck a'comin, spinkled with honey now and then for those who prefer their adventures less dismal, but yeah, plenty and plenty of muck too.
I will say, though, that the writer is a very talented chap and I would hope he could "modify" his style a tiny bit to accommodate his target market, whilst still maintaining the "realism" that clearly he intend to portray in his modules.
As a talented writer I hope he does not change or redirect the flow of his muse in anyway to accommodate anyone. This way can only lead to watered down bologna.
For the record I am satisfied with Logue's output, but regardless, asking an artist to change is just barking up the wrong tree.
Best.
Well you seem to have been off topic for a while now but I would like to move back to the point at hand again.
I really don't see where you get splatterpunk or torture porn from in either Louges, or any one elses, adventures lately. True I have none of the GMM but I remember that torture porn was refered to in a post on PF2 and PF3. I own and have read both of them and see no problem whatsoever with any of them.
Which is sad acctually cus I got all hyped up from all the talking of how dark and disturbed Louges adventures where. Still they are good adventures but not near as depraved as some of youwant them to seem.
If you want depraved, turn on the news some time.
Or any reality-show for that matter.
I really enjoy Mr. Logues adventures and love the idea of using failure as a tool for the players. Mr Logue has been published often recently, but I remember waiting for what seemed years for his adventures in Dungeon. This last year has been a real treat in this respect.
I remember reading that Joss Wheedon(sp) of Buffy and Serenity fame wrote his female characters for thier strengths, and his male characters for thier flaws. I have Mr. Logue to thank for another tool for writing adventure for my players, one where the game world reflects thier successes and failures while serving as a spring board them to further adventure.
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One of the goals with the first year or so of modules was to explore a wide variety of different ideas, themes, and gaming styles to see which ones resonated with our audience and were worth pursuing, and which ones did not. The flexibility of the single adventure format allowed us to explore some riskier areas without committing to a full adventure path based on those themes. Would people buy Egypt-style adventures? What about stand-alone Dungeon crawls? How popular are urban or mystery adventures? All of these are potential adventure path material, but carried some considerable risk.Horror, and dark fey are two of the themes we were excited to explore early in the conceptual process of the module line's development. In retrospect, it's kind of unfortunate that the release of those modules coincided so perfectly with the Pathfinder horror adventure, as it perhaps gave readers the impression that we were going horror, which was not the intention.
You can expect us continue to present a wide array of adventures and themes, while at the same time we make the occasional return to those areas (like Falcon's Hollow) that prove to be the most popular with our readers and subscribers.
I want to weigh in on this subject. I was a huge Ravenloft fan and it was for the horror but the horror was often not as satisfying as I would have liked.
The work the Nick has done in this genre has been excellent. I have a hard time understanding the OP's point. Evil is supposed to be Evil. With Nick's work here it has been. I love the twisted Fey, and the other aspects of this.
I think there should be an element of hopelessness in the world that needs heroes. If there is not then the heroes are not really needed and things would resolve themselves some other way. I want my PCs to feel they are the only hope and if things do not all work out the way they would want - maybe either the problem is too big for any group of heroes (yeah - realism) or maybe they have not gotten to the bottom of the problem. Maybe there is another overarching villian or issues or extra planer influence.
Everything should not be tied up in a neat little package over and over again. It is too two dimensional. Give me a three dimensional world. Give me scenarios that leave things unfinished and more complex than on the surface and Give me true evil not some kind of bad guy who has a weak plan to steal social security checks. If you do not have true evil then why do you need true heroes.
Nick - keep up the great work and Paizo please keep it coming. I understand themes will change but I think what you have started here since August has been amazing and I want more. I am a subsciber and will remain so...
Thank you. Now back to your regularly scheduled rant.
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It should also be known that my personal gaming style is all about failure. Tragedy is a powerful storytelling tool, and in a place like Falcon's Hollow, heroes have a hard time triumphing. Sometimes the fight you win, wasn't the really important thing in life, and the real fight passed you by while you were myopically duking it out over territory already lost. Sometimes the only real sense of victory is when you just do what you can and try to pick up the pieces when it all falls apart anyways. To me, that's a true hero. The most moving heroics (to me at least) are not in overcoming adversity, but rather dealing with the horrific aftermath of a tragedy you were unable to avert, gritting your teeth through the tears and striving to continue the good fight in the face of abject failure and desperation. My favorite real life heroes are people who can admit when they didn't measure up and keep fighting the good fight, long after the battlefield is littered with pieces of their soul. This is my favorite kind of character to play.
That is what I'm saying... And it is about the moral dilemma. Do your heroes rise above it all and persevere or do they fall into the morass of moral decay and are slowly corrupted by the evil they face and the evil they were unable to overcome. Excellent...
...I love a action-packed, you-can-do-no-wrong, take-the-world-by-storm feel good adventure too. I just get bored of righteous victory after righteous victory with no consequences if that's the way every game goes.
Word, man.
Now I'm gonna go have some inbred ogres try to rape a innocent young woman's first D&D character.
