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How about the purple guy with the mohawk? Oh wait, that's the Shi'ar Imperial Guard. ;) Wrong universe, even.
dont know if this was ever mentioned, since I just started reading the thread...
but Rond Vidar, son of Universo, was the last Green lantern, about 3 retcons ago ;)
supposedly theres a big event that caused folks to hate the GL's and he's 'secretly' using the ring.
How about the purple guy with the mohawk? Oh wait, that's the Shi'ar Imperial Guard. ;) Wrong universe, even.dont know if this was ever mentioned, since I just started reading the thread...
but Rond Vidar, son of Universo, was the last Green lantern, about 3 retcons ago ;)
supposedly theres a big event that caused folks to hate the GL's and he's 'secretly' using the ring.
Welcome to the thread. Hopefully we can get some awesome and informative Legion discussions going as well as retain the fun of the thread. Heath is in charge of the fun.
Sorry I haven't posted in this thread a bit, I owe you guys a recap of the latest issue of Legion, and there should be another issue out next wednesday. I like where the story arc is going(Ultra Boy is getting a LOT of face time), so I'll wait until I have both issues to drop the summation.
I took a look at your basic system/stats Eileen, and I have to say I'm a bit intimidated- it reminds me a bit of the Mayfair system in a lot of ways. Is this system entirely your creation or is it at existing system altered to meet your vision?
Oh, and welcome Dread! I would love to see a GL in this latest incarnation of the Legion- any ideas on who/what would fit the bill?
Sorry I haven't posted in this thread a bit, I owe you guys a recap of the latest issue of Legion, and there should be another issue out next wednesday. I like where the story arc is going(Ultra Boy is getting a LOT of face time), so I'll wait until I have both issues to drop the summation.
I took a look at your basic system/stats Eileen, and I have to say I'm a bit intimidated- it reminds me a bit of the Mayfair system in a lot of ways. Is this system entirely your creation or is it at existing system altered to meet your vision?
Well I should say, you should apologize for not making more frequent visits, shame on you Freehold. "Smack!"
The stat system, how areas of expertise and powers work and how they are measured in category and mathmatically I came up with as well as how the basic combat chart works, and the equivalant of the XP system. The amount of information I have borrowed from another game has been very minimal. I make up a section of rules and then if I get stuck, look at another system to try and get the wheels in my head turning again. A truly original effort is difficult to come up with as there are so many games out there and ideas that have been tried. I have two games on standby that I have looked at briefly off and on but I only do that when I'm really not coming up with an idea that I like. The games are the Marvel and DC Mayfair. I originally decided to go with the idea of categories such as Feeble through Infinte at the beginning because it seems so super-heroish. I later realized I had to add a number to these categories as well to make other aspects work as well as helping players memorize the categories. I knew that the Marvel game used categories as well (which I'm sure is where I got the idea in the first place since back in the 80's I played a tiny bit of Marvel with my brother). After I developed my system I compared it to Marvel and then the DC game (which I didn't realize also used a category like system). The biggest similarity is that you have columns that go up and down to represent the difficulty of attempting an action or to represent how good you are. I think after that the basic rules similarity kinda ends.
Essentially each Legionnaire has a status number which is an overall measure of how powerful that character will be. Status numbers range from 1-21 . The higher the status number the more points you get to spend on Areas of Expertise (skills) and the more powers you get as well as ways to use those powers (called power effects).
Each stat, each power effect, each Area of Expertise has a category to measure it by ranging from Feeble to Infinite. Each of these categories also has a number ranging from 1-21 to help represent the strength of that category in a mathmatical way. This number is also helpful for determining how much an improvement to an area of expertise, stat, or power effect costs.
I haven't really figured out the Mayfair system and only half-heartedly tried. I got pretty confused on their units of measurement and all of their abbreviations for things. Marvel is easier to follow.
Keep in mind that pretty much everything I post here is a short hand version of what I have here at home. I think when you read sections on my computer it makes more sense because you get examples and the full gist of things. Of coarse I could be wrong as well. It seems easier to me because I wrote it. Having someone else take what I wrote and understand it could be an entirely different matter.
Can you give me some (polite) constructive critisizm or tell me why it was intimidating or reminded you of Mayfair? Can you give me some ideas of what you would do differently? I know that is tough to offer since you don't really have all the rules (not to mention they are incompete). Just looking for some input here. The system is far from done, in fact I've done very little in the last few weeks (regretfully) other than rewriting sections to improve them.
I am so very sorry I haven't been posting lately- I've been working on a few projects of my own and settling into married life. I've come to realize my wife is NOT a slob, but that we need a larger place- who knew two people could need so much space?
I can't quite put my finger on what intimidated me- probably the plethora of ranks one could have in a stat(1-21). The derived stats from an average of other stats is all Mayfair, and I should have realized the names came out of my favorite superhero roleplaying game, Marvel (TSR version of course). I would cut down the ranks to 10 or so, maybe 12(got to have the extra two ranks for the superman/darkseid type characters). Derived stats should be kept to an absolute minimum(no more than 1d4-3 :-) ) to cut down on confusion.
Mooks, Henchmen and Innocents should have the same stats, and be much, much weaker than the heroes. I'm all for challenging enemies and potent allies, but since this is a superhero game(not D&D- one of the most terrifying villains the party I was in ever faced was an 11th level expert), non-powered people should be in a completely different category from their superpowered bretheren(sorry Batman fans).
In terms of powers, I say as many as possible- don't mess up like marvel did and take away super stats as an individual super power(this would allow for space/super karate like Karate Kid, and Brainiac 5's super intelligence).
Also, what kind of dice are you going to use? Are you going the Marvel/Mayfair route with only one type of die or are you going to be a bit more polyhedronal? That is a crucial distinction, believe it or not- it will help you decide what the focus of your system is going to be- super detailed(D&D) or fast and loose(Marvel).
I know these questions are coming at you at a thousand miles an hour and out of nowhere, but I'm just rattling them off as they come into my head. I promise to be on this thread more often, I hope my questions/criticisms help your game take form.
Freehold DM said:
I am so very sorry I haven't been posting lately- I've been working on a few projects of my own and settling into married life. I've come to realize my wife is NOT a slob, but that we need a larger place- who knew two people could need so much space?
Eileen said:
Yes two people take up more space than one person. Closet space is another issue. Make sure you always have enough.
Thanks for getting back to me on this so quickly. I'll be looking for more points of view as time goes on. You asked some good questions which I'll try and answer and a couple I guess I didn't really understand. Maybe we can tine tune some ideas (or flat out improve them or find out why they wouldn't work).
Freehold DM said:
I can't quite put my finger on what intimidated me- probably the plethora of ranks one could have in a stat(1-21). The derived stats from an average of other stats is all Mayfair, and I should have realized the names came out of my favorite superhero roleplaying game, Marvel (TSR version of course). I would cut down the ranks to 10 or so, maybe 12(got to have the extra two ranks for the superman/darkseid type characters). Derived stats should be kept to an absolute minimum(no more than 1d4-3 :-) ) to cut down on confusion.
Eileen said:
Currently their are 21 categories (ranks). This is a lot, I agree. When I created my chart I honestly didn't know how many categories (ranks) I would need. Ok, I just tried duplicating the chart and the format of the messageboard won't let me maintain columns, so I'll opt for a verbal explanation.
The chart has the categories going across the top as well as down on the left side. In the center are the chances necessary to succeed at an action (much like a DC in D&D). To attempt an action, you find you category for your action being attempted and roll d%. You then go across the chart and find your die roll result. Then follow the chart to the top and check the category you achieved with that roll.
The chart works like this:
If you have a Feeble category for your ability/power a roll of
50% = Feeble
60% = Weak
70% = Poor
80% = Typical
90% = Good
00% = Exceptional
If you have a Weak category for your ability/power a roll of
50% = Weak
60% = Poor
70% = Typical
80% = Good
90% = Exceptional
00% = Remarkable
If you have a Poor category for your ability/power a roll of
50% = Poor
60% = Typical
70% = Good
80% = Exceptional
90% = Remarkable
00% = Outstanding
This pattern conitnues but it is set up in a chart form. I realize that this is probably difficult to understand since I can't reproduce the chart, I tried to explain it as well as I could. You might want to try and write out the chart at home to get a better idea.
Freehold DM said:
The derived stats from an average of other stats is all Mayfair,
Derived stats should be kept to an absolute minimum(no more than 1d4-3 :-) ) to cut down on confusion.
Eileen said:
I didn't understand what you meant by this. What do you mean by derived stats? Do you mean how many stats I should have in the game? I broke the basic concepts up into 3 stats each. I don't know if I will end up keeping all of them. If some pretty much don't end up serving a purpose I would get rid of them. I wanted three stats for each category rather than one here, two there, and three for this one. If they stats can be better defined and narrowed down I'd be good with that. I don't necessarily want areas which are considered throw away stats. I want everything to be useful. At this point I realize some stats are going to be used a lot more than others but those that don't get used a lot I expect will become a big deal when they do come into play (such as Spirit and Fate). Feel free to better define or categorize them for me. I'm intrested in your input.
Right now, Combat is broken down into Fighting, Agility, and Aim, the stat you use is dependent upon what kind of fighting your doing. If you punch like Ultra Boy/Timber Wolf it is Fighting. If you dodge an attack your using agility, if your aiming a gun or Lightning Lad aiming a bolt you use aim.
Might is pretty much a measure of physical strength, speed, and toughness (being able to handle damage).
Mental is Intellect, Concentration, and Psyche. Psyche to me stands alone where as Intellect and Concentration are a little more similar.
Influence is Deception, Leadership (Cosmic Boy's approach), Allure (looks).
Guidance is different than the others. This is intended to work with magic, death, and luck. It has the following traits: Luck, Fate, and Spirit. Luck is well....luck, you get a luck roll every now and then.
Spirit is used for playing dead characters rather than making death so final. Also I'm anticipating having dead (undead) type of aliens, NPCs, etc. someday. Spirit is also a measure of spiritual based powers (think a cleric).
Fate is more difficult to graps because it is very different than normal stats were use to such as strength or intelligence. Here is my current definition:
The Fate trait is a measure of the events which are destined to encompass a Legionnaire or villain and their ability to respond to them within the game. Many key events are determined for an individual as a result of the countless stories written about the Legion in its incredibly lengthy history. With the Fate trait, a Legionnaire or villain may alter the outcome of these stories and avoid particularly tragic events.
The primary die roll which is paramount to the Fate trait is the Defy Death roll.
Within the Legion stories, Ferro Lad was the first Legionnaire to die. Others like Chemical King, Invisible Kid and Karate Kid were destined to follow in his footsteps as well. With the Fate trait, these events may be altered when the Legionnaire is finally faced with the circumstances which brought about such events.
1. The Legionnaire may choose to accept the comic fate. Player gets a lot of xp in return.
2. The Legionnaire may choose not to accept the comic fate and make a Fate roll. If successful, they automatically avoid the event. Normal x.p. If failed, they automatically follow the coarse of action taken in the comics.
3. The player may simply play out the circumstances of the event and accept whatever outcome happens. Normal xp.
Freehold DM said:
Mooks, Henchmen and Innocents should have the same stats, and be much, much weaker than the heroes. I'm all for challenging enemies and potent allies, but since this is a superhero game(not D&D- one of the most terrifying villains the party I was in ever faced was an 11th level expert), non-powered people should be in a completely different category from their superpowered bretheren(sorry Batman fans).
Eileen said:
This will be the case. At this point in time my idea of the lower categories is.....
Feeble, Weak, Poor, Typical, Significant, Good, Exceptional, Remarkable, Outstanding, Asatonishing are all humanoid non-super powered ranges. Anything beyond Astonishing is super powered.
Feeble: The lowest stat in the game, such as a very unintelligent creature, a very weak creature (human child for example, very small alien).
Typical: The average humanoid stat, be it intellect, strength, etc.
Astonishing: The highest humanoid score available through great dedication and training such as Batman.
Most Legionnaires such as say many of the Legion women might have a Strength score of Signficant which is one step better than the average male.
Someone like Cosmic Boy or Lightning Lad would have a Strength score of say Exceptional. Here are Cosmic Boy's stats.
COMBAT
Fighting/Good/6
Agility/Exceptional/7
Aim/Exceptional/7
MIGHT
Strength/Exceptional/7
Speed/Exceptional/7
Toughness/Exceptional/7
MENTAL
Intellect/Significant/5
Concentration/Exceptional/7
Psyche/Good/6
CHARM
Deception/Significant/5
Leadership/Exceptional/7
Allure/Exceptional/7
GUIDANCE
Luck/Typical/4
Fate/Typical/4
Spirit/Typical/4
Frehold DM said:
In terms of powers, I say as many as possible- don't mess up like marvel did and take away super stats as an individual super power(this would allow for space/super karate like Karate Kid, and Brainiac 5's super intelligence).
Eileen said:
I'm not sure what you meant here. It sounds like your saying if a Legionnaire has a super stat (like Brainaic) that it shouldn't be part of the character build when determining stats. Maybe that isn't what you meant, Im not sure. What I was going to do is count the super stat (such as Brainiac 5's intellegence or superboys strength) as a stat and count it into the stat build process. For example, if Superboy has 200 points to build stats with, I would subtract X amount for his super strength. If your suggesting I shouldn't do this let me know why. I want to stop any pitfalls beforehand. If it is a bad idea help me understand why.
Freehold DM said
Also, what kind of dice are you going to use? Are you going the Marvel/Mayfair route with only one type of die or are you going to be a bit more polyhedronal? That is a crucial distinction, believe it or not- it will help you decide what the focus of your system is going to be- super detailed(D&D) or fast and loose(Marvel).
Eileen said:
I wanted to use an assortment of dice but the way the chart worked out which handles combat, areas of expertise rolls, etc. everything is d%. At this point d% are the only dice needed. I like a variety of dice but it just hasn't worked out this way yet. I was hoping for a faster system like Marvel. My Top Secret/S.I. and D&D games were very detailed and thus slower in play. I would like Legion to play fast yet not totally compromise a certain level of detail, so really, kind of in the middle is what I'm shooting for. I want character creation to be fast. NPC creation to be a breeze so that they can be rolled up in a couple of minutes. Villains should be made outside of the game and take longer though. I will be using a generic sort of minion and innocents. Many henchmen would be low level super powered people like Quicksand (if you know who she is). These individuals would be created in advance for the game master (Cosmos Master).
Freehold DM said:
I know these questions are coming at you at a thousand miles an hour and out of nowhere, but I'm just rattling them off as they come into my head. I promise to be on this thread more often, I hope my questions/criticisms help your game take form.
Eileen said:
That would be nice if you were around more. I liked your questions and maybe we can fix some of the problems I haven't seen coming.
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Sorry I haven't posted in this thread a bit, I owe you guys a recap of the latest issue of Legion, and there should be another issue out next wednesday. I like where the story arc is going(Ultra Boy is getting a LOT of face time), so I'll wait until I have both issues to drop the summation.
I took a look at your basic system/stats Eileen, and I have to say I'm a bit intimidated- it reminds me a bit of the Mayfair system in a lot of ways. Is this system entirely your creation or is it at existing system altered to meet your vision?
Oh, and welcome Dread! I would love to see a GL in this latest incarnation of the Legion- any ideas on who/what would fit the bill?
Hi Freehold. Yes. I agree, its long time gone for a GL to show up in the Legion...I still think Rond Vidar would be an obvious choice, since its leaning back on what was done before...as most the characters are.
In the current Incarnation, the only one Im not feeling the love for is the re-write of Invisible Kid. He used to be one of my faves, but I cant get into the new one.
Are you guys just discussing things here? or actually going to game eventually? Either way is cool with me. If you arent looking to 'publish' something, why not just borrow Marvel Super Heroes chart....I am a firm believer in 'not reinventing the wheel'
Eileen likes to reinvent the wheel because she thinks its fun. The game is for personal use and I'm always looking forward to polite suggestive improvements from others. The game is strictly based on the Legion comic. When it is finished, mechanically it could be used for other groups of heroes but fluff wise it is strictly Legion. It is a long way from being mechanically sound but I'm enjoying working on it. There is no real intention on publishing anything but if it really turned out well I probably would make a pitch to someone in the far future but that's pretty much wishful thinking at best. I hope to play with my old D&D/Top Secret/S.I. group here at home.
lol Eileen, if you enjoy it...then that is the best of reasons....How can I help?
How can you help? I shall email 378 pages of text which I need edited along with 42 pieces of original Legion art to be drawn and inserted in approrpriate areas. The book must be hard covered bound using the provided art and shipped back to me by 6:19 p.m. tomorrow.
Seriously, how can you help? Well, in regards to the game, I occasionally post questions along with some information looking for input. Sometimes I get a couple of responses, sometimes I don't. My knowledge of superhero games is very limited so I am no expert in how they differ from other games.
I have spent many years on D&D, and even more on Top Secret/S.I. The Top Secret/S.I. game is where I discovered I really love (and am now addicted to) creating game system rules. I pretty much rewrote the whole game yet continued to used the core rules all of which was greatly modified in detail. I could have taken the basic system of Marvel or DC and do the same as well (it would have been much easier) but I decided I would rather create a new game from start to finish.
I was an avid Legion fan when I was younger. By the time I got into college I had stopped buying the comic (much to my regret) and my brother had sold my DC comics so he could buy more Marvel. Fast forward many years later, about 2-3 years ago, I was in a small hobby shop which had some used comics. Browsing through them I saw my first comic: Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes #212. I purchased it for 50 cents and was happy. After that I had no problem starting up a collection once again. Now I'm buying up tons of back issues to read and use as sources of information for my game.
Here's Where I'm at on the Game
The game has the traits (attributes) which was what Freehold DM and I were discussing as well as the basic combat rules. I have an idea of how powers will work and areas of expertise (skills). I need to play test the basic combat rules here at home (which I keep trying to schedule and it keeps falling through). I have started to create a some characters using the generation rules I have (this caused a lot or rewrites as I found problems within the system). So this pretty much brings you up to speed on things.
Brainstorming here on the Paizo is most likely the greatest help I need. I know a lot of the information I post is a quick rewrite and without having the entire rules in front of you it does make things hard to follow.
Right now, I've been trying to decide how the movement rules and super strength rules should work. DC games seems to take more of a mathmatical approach while Marvel prefers an easy example system. I'm leaning towards the Marvel approach. Ideally, I'd like something in the middle.
What are your opinions on these two subjects?
ok; audits done at work; gonna try to find a clear time to copy some stuff for you today :) hope I make my stealth and deception rolls.
Eileenprohetessofthelegion, do you have access to the old Bushido game? I think it had the best chart for initial reactions between encounters that I have seen. I use it and most peeps who have played in my game use it too now in their own games.
Eileenprohetessofthelegion, do you have access to the old Bushido game? I think it had the best chart for initial reactions between encounters that I have seen. I use it and most peeps who have played in my game use it too now in their own games.
No, I don't have access to that game. I have heard of the game and if I am not mistaken I think maybe they had a small miniature line a number of years ago. Please explain this "initial reaction chart if you would be so kind.
ok; audits done at work; gonna try to find a clear time to copy some stuff for you today :) hope I make my stealth and deception rolls.
Fear naught, I have arranged for the Legion Espionage Squad to come in and assist you in this matter. You now have the services of Chameleon Boy, Shrinking Violet, yours truly, Phantom Girl, and of coarse, Invisible Kid.
Here's the plan....Shrinking Violet will enter through the cracks of the door frame (she can reach atomic level of size). Once she recognizes that no on is around, she will disarm and necessary security devices and let Chameleon Boy and Invisible Kid inside.
Meanwhile Phantom Girl is going to enter in another part of the building. She will strategically locate herself in a position so that she can see into the room where the copies need to be made and serve as a lookout. Shrinking Violet will do the same from another vital locale once she has let the others inside.
Chameleon Boy will take the shape of the company President and actually perform the necessary copy procedures.
Invisible Kid will stand around bored and trying to get the others to hurry up.
Will this be of any help?
You may have to instruct them on how to actually use the machine as I'm sure none of them have ever seen such an ancient device. The idea that it runs on electricity alone is probably confusing to them. They may struggle with locating the start button as well since no-one reads English.
This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds....
Five
Four
Three
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Kaboom......the explosion is so strong that Paizo joins WOTC in being down at least half the time.
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Im a big fan of the KISS principle. Not knowing how the rest of the rules are shaping up...my advice is to
A) use the same 'mechanic' in both of those (movement and Super Strength) as the other rule sets.
B)Keep to a 'typical' base...what can normals do and how great an increment should eaxh rank change it.
C)Assign a rank (much like a difficulty class) to overcome to perform feats of strength and to feats of speed.
D)Id stay away from too complex a system...
dont know if that helps, but its hard to advise when I dont know the base from which you are working.
the intitial reaction chart was one list and a chart
the first list was 1-100; 1 being hated; 100 being love; 50 was neutral. The response was hate; neutral or love; but with modifiers; the second charft had responses for hate; nuetral or love.
so say you roll a 37 on percentile for an npc's initial reaction to the pc; you then add the pc's charisma modifier and any applicable bonuses be they positive or negative. Things such as reputation, like alignments are a bonus; opposite alignments are a negative; being in the service of same organization; a bonus; competing organizations; a negative. Stuff like this; with a pc going to a new area with a new guy with no reputation and being same race there is not modifier other than charisma.
so with a 37; say charisma bonus +2 which is 10%; same race +5% and no other modifiers; well; you get a 52; nuetral response; means second table of next chart
roll percentile; this tells you how helpful the npc will initially be to the pc; say your roll a 50; guy is nuetral; will do just what is appropriate; give what service he offers with no additions of extra stuff; but wont short you are neglect either; totally nuetral.
say in this example; the pc was well knows; say a paladin +10 reputation as a good guy; the npc worships same diety +5; say npc is devout +5 more; paladin seeks help from npc on quest in service of diety; +5; the pc's church has extensive infuence on the npc's life; +10; now the intitial roll is a 37+previous bonus to a 52 plus 35 more or a 88%; that is the loved part of third chart
second roll of 50 no loved chart; guy is helpful; gives discounts; offers advice and such as long as it doesnt personally endanger him or cost him things he cannot recover.
Negative modifiers work the same way for hostile races; organizations; whatnot.
There is a small list of how much bonus positive or negative of what to add for how much reputation and stuff like this; the whole process in game times takes less than a minute and then you just play the npc that way initially.
Im a big fan of the KISS principle. Not knowing how the rest of the rules are shaping up...my advice is to
A) use the same 'mechanic' in both of those (movement and Super Strength) as the other rule sets.
B)Keep to a 'typical' base...what can normals do and how great an increment should eaxh rank change it.
C)Assign a rank (much like a difficulty class) to overcome to perform feats of strength and to feats of speed.
D)Id stay away from too complex a system...
dont know if that helps, but its hard to advise when I dont know the base from which you are working.
Sounds like we were thinking in the same direction. I think I like the approach that Marvel tood versus DC on this issue which seems to correspond to your thoughts as well. I'll most likely be putting together a list of normal super-hero feats (such as lifting, breaking things, etc) and assigning categories (ranks) to them. I think once this is done things will appear much simpler to me. Alot of times its just getting the idea started that is the hard part. I know I don't want the game to be a mathmatical exercise. I hoping for fast play to keep the super-hero feel to it.
the intitial reaction chart was one list and a chart
the first list was 1-100; 1 being hated; 100 being love; 50 was neutral. The response was hate; neutral or love; but with modifiers; the second charft had responses for hate; nuetral or love.
so say you roll a 37 on percentile for an npc's initial reaction to the pc; you then add the pc's charisma modifier and any applicable bonuses be they positive or negative. Things such as reputation, like alignments are a bonus; opposite alignments are a negative; being in the service of same organization; a bonus; competing organizations; a negative. Stuff like this; with a pc going to a new area with a new guy with no reputation and being same race there is not modifier other than charisma.
so with a 37; say charisma bonus +2 which is 10%; same race +5% and no other modifiers; well; you get a 52; nuetral response; means second table of next chart
roll percentile; this tells you how helpful the npc will initially be to the pc; say your roll a 50; guy is nuetral; will do just what is appropriate; give what service he offers with no additions of extra stuff; but wont short you are neglect either; totally nuetral.
say in this example; the pc was well knows; say a paladin +10 reputation as a good guy; the npc worships same diety +5; say npc is devout +5 more; paladin seeks help from npc on quest in service of diety; +5; the pc's church has extensive infuence on the npc's life; +10; now the intitial roll is a 37+previous bonus to a 52 plus 35 more or a 88%; that is the loved part of third chart
second roll of 50 no loved chart; guy is helpful; gives discounts; offers advice and such as long as it doesnt personally endanger him or cost him things he cannot recover.
Negative modifiers work the same way for hostile races; organizations; whatnot.
There is a small list of how much bonus positive or negative of what to add for how much reputation and stuff like this; the whole process in game times takes less than a minute and then you just play the npc that...
Sounds pretty workable with the Universal System Chart I developed to handle the base combat. I think the chart could easily handle all aspects of the two chart process of the Bushido game. Basically make a trait roll and achieve a certain category depending upon the difficulty of the task. Modifiers would appear in the form of increasing or decreasing the column difficulty. An opposed roll would be made by the NPC is applicable to the situation. The opposed roll would have to receive a greater category than the initial character's result in order to decline, say no, disagree, etc.
Right now the only thing I have for some kind of interaction is the idea of using the appropriate stat. The stat used depends upon the approach one takes with the options being deception (lying), leadership, and allure (using you looks, flirting, etc.). I hadn't had to worry about more than that but your post has spurned some quick ideas which I may put together today as well. Thank You kind sir!
cool; check your mail; sent you two packets of stuff that will hopefully generate some ideas.
do you want any little chits for future cars and machines and stuff; will send you one so you know what I mean.
cool; check your mail; sent you two packets of stuff that will hopefully generate some ideas.
do you want any little chits for future cars and machines and stuff; will send you one so you know what I mean.
You are the most awesome Efreeti I know. I zipped through them and I already can tell they will be of major use. You are so kind, thank you Valegrim. Hope the Espionage Team was able to help you. I'm going to move some old furniture out of the house now, get rid of it, take a shower, and devote what is left of my weekend to writing. I think I will work on things based on the recent discussion and your most awesome email. Thanks again!
For my first wish, I Wish that Valegrym gets the girl and lives happily ever after.
hehe; thanks much o most awesome and wonderous Eilienprophetessofallthingslegion; hehe; glad your email is working again. I too would sure like to have a great girl; am just about ready to do some vanishing magic with the current situation.
Also, not sure what other stuff I might have you might want along these lines; drop me an email or put it here.
am feeling very run of the mill efreeti since it took me what; like two months to get you this stuff; hehe I suck.
hehe; thanks much o most awesome and wonderous Eilienprophetessofallthingslegion; hehe; glad your email is working again. I too would sure like to have a great girl; am just about ready to do some vanishing magic with the current situation.
Also, not sure what other stuff I might have you might want along these lines; drop me an email or put it here.
am feeling very run of the mill efreeti since it took me what; like two months to get you this stuff; hehe I suck.
No, you don't suck, you have a life, there is a differance. Condsidering you don't charge me for things (at least not yet) I have no complaints about you taking your time. Keep in mind that some of the things I can use right away others I will eventually use once I get that far. My point being is well, you don't suck!
I'm sorry your thinking about doing a vanishing act. Does this mean I get my wish back?
Eileen; for you anything; wish away
course; as an efreet; I sorta haveta dance round it you know; twist again; like I did last summer; twister time is here; hehe.
Say the words; Say the words; why doesnt she say the words :)
(hehe love that movie)
Eileen; for you anything; wish away
course; as an efreet; I sorta haveta dance round it you know; twist again; like I did last summer; twister time is here; hehe.
Say the words; Say the words; why doesnt she say the words :)
(hehe love that movie)
Yes, that was an excellent movie. About a year and a half or so ago, Dragon Magazine said a sequel was coming out to Labryinth, but I never saw it hit the shelves.
Where I come from, a twister is a tornado.
I was working on limits for strength, both normal and super and I would please like some feedback on the ranges. I don't know if the numbers are off for a super hero game or not so I'm hoping those with more Super-hero game experience than me will jump in.
Ok, the range is from Feeble to Infinite. The first number is the average weight the character could handle (with realitive ease) under non-crisis situations and therefore most likely not have to make a die roll. In a crisis situation if a die roll was required they would have a 50% chance of success to make it on the first attempt. A character could by pass the die roll by taking more time on the lift (say 2 actions instead of just making 1).
The second weight is the absolute top end which that category allows to be lifted. This requires a natural roll of 100%. Kinda like the stories you hear about the Mom tearing off the car door when her child is inside a burning car or someone lifting the back end up to get someone out from underneath, that type of thing.
The player would roll d% and look on the chart to see what category they attained. The higher they rolled the more they lifted. For the the categories in boldface I showed what the weight result would be at various die rolls. I think you'll see the pattern and be able to easily figure the others if need be. I wonder if there is to much of a varience in weight for each category even for a super-hero game. What do you think? I'm not comfortable with the wide range for each category.
I think many of the categories start to low (especially for the lower ones like Feeble through Astonishing) either that or they go up to high for a super hero game. If you have suggestions please show me by copy and pasting this post and rewriting your preferred numbers in so I can easily understand what changes you would make.
Feeble: 15 to 90 lbs.
Broken down the Feeble category is as follows: 15 lbs is 50% chance of success, 30 lbs. is 40% chance of success, 45 lbs. is 30% chance of success, 60 lbs. is 20% chance of success, 75 lbs. is 10% chance of success, and 90 lbs. is 1% chance of success
Weak: 25 to 150 lbs.
Poor: 50 to 300 lbs.
Typical: 75 to 450 lbs. average human male
Broken down the Typical category is as follows: 75 lbs. is a 50% chance of success, 150 lbs. is a 40% chance success, 225 lbs. is a 30% chance of success, 300 lbs is a 20% chance success, 375 lbs. is a 10% chance of success, 450 lbs. is a 1% chance success.
Signficiant: 100 to 600 lbs.
Good: 125 to 750 lbs.
Exceptional: 150 to 900 lbs.
Broken down the Exceptional category is as follows: 50 lbs. is a 50% chance of success, 300 lbs. is a 40% chance success, 450 lbs. is a 30% chance of success, 500 lbs is a 20% chance success, 650 lbs. is a 10% chance of success, 800 lbs. is a 1% chance success.
Remarkable: 200 to 1200 lbs.
Outstanding: 250 to 1500 lbs.
Astonishing: 300 to 1800 lbs. Absolute top humanoid limit, Batman maybe, in the DC game he can lift 1500 lbs.
Broken down the Astonishing category is as follows: 300 lbs. is a 50% chance of success, 600 lbs. is a 40% chance success, 900 lbs. is a 30% chance of success, 1200 lbs is a 20% chance success, 1500 lbs. is a 10% chance of success, 1800 lbs. is a 1% chance success.
These are the super categories:
Incredible: 1000 lbs. to 6000 lbs.
Broken down the Incredible category is as follows: 1000 lbs. is a 50% chance of success, 2000 lbs. is a 40% chance success, 3000 lbs. is a 30% chance of success, 4000 lbs is a 20% chance success, 5000 lbs. is a 10% chance of success, 6000 lbs. is a 1% chance success.
Heroic: 1 ton to 6 tons Spiderman is listed as 1-10 tons in the Marvel game
Powerful: 5 tons to 30 tons
Epic: 10 tons to 60 tons (Timber Wolf maybe)
Unearthly: 100 tons to 600 tons (This is Shift X for those with the Marvel game)
Ultra: 1000 tons to 6000 tons
Super: 10,000 tons to 60,000 tons SUperboy's strength
Galactic: 100,000 tons to 600,000 tons Validus' strength, In the DC game, Superman is listed as being able to lift 81,000 tons
Universal: 1 million tons to 6 million tons
Godlike: 10 million tons to 100 million tons
Infinite: 100 million tons to 600 million tons
I dont understand the ranges and why they overlap.
Signficiant: 100 to 600 lbs.
Good: 125 to 750 lbs.
I am guessing that the range is for character development; does it work that if you have sign strength you start at 100 but your max development is 600?
How is strength going to relate to damage in your game? a guy with sign strength of 600 is going to be six times stronger than a guy with 100 strength.
Do you have an idea of what defines strength? In D&D it was how much could be lifted over the persons head. In champions; it is a little better; items have mass; if you have str equal to the mass you can move it; all strength over the mass is applied to what you can do with it; so if you have a 40 str and something takes 20 str to move; you have 20 str to do something with it; means you can throw it 4" if you wanted to as the game as a nice 1"per 5pts thing; so at 60 str you could throw it for 8" or 8d6 damage. Cool thing about Heroes games is the math was all very easy 5pts was 1d6 normal or 1".
I dont understand the ranges and why they overlap.
Signficiant: 100 to 600 lbs.
Good: 125 to 750 lbs.I am guessing that the range is for character development; does it work that if you have sign strength you start at 100 but your max development is 600?
Eileen said:
Well like I said the whole thing does seem pretty off to me. I understand your question in regarding the overlap. I tried to avoid this but regardless of what I came up with it seemed screwy. The overlap bothers me but at the same time I think makes some (maybe) sense. I don't know if I can explain it well but I'll try.If you look at the boldface stats which I detailed out better for you, you'll see that each percent that I listed increases the amount of weight the character was able to muster with a quick clean snatch sort of approach to their effort. Using the Significant category as an example here is what would happen.
The character has a strength category of Significant on their character sheet. They will roll d% to lift something. To determine how successful they are, you take their category which is on the left column of the chart (which I can't produce here because it won't hold columns) and you read across until you find your die roll result or the nearest lowest result compared to your roll. The chart increments are as follows 02%, 10%, 20% 30% 40% 50% 60% 70% 80% 90% 100%. Once you find your entry you go up to the top of the chart where it shows all of the categories and indicates what category you achieved.
Example: I have a character with a Significant Strength score. This tells me how strong he is in relation to someone else with a different category. I them roll d% and lets say I roll a 87%. I then read across my Significant row starting on the left side of the chart and check the die roll entries until I find the nearest % which doesn't exceed by die roll. In this case that would be 80%. Going to the top of the chart it will tell me that an 80% is a Remarkable entry.
Had I rolled a 34% I would have received an entry of Poor.
Now, lets say my strength category was Incredible (which is much better than Signficiant). I roll d% again and receive 87%. Following the chart across I find 80% which is the nearest lower roll. Going to the top I find that is a category of Epic. That character received an entry of Epic.
This is where the overlap comes in. It measures the range of strngth someone could handle given their category versus the category received by the dice roll.
I'm sorry, it is very hard to explain without the chart. I typed up the whole chart here before and it won't keep spaces between entries and columns so it became quite unreadable. If you can teach me how to send a attached file I could email the microsoft document to you and you would understand. Then if the system is terrible it would be easier for you to suggest how to alter it for a fix.
Valegrim said:
How is strength going to relate to damage in your game? a guy with sign strength of 600 is going to be six times stronger than a guy with 100 strength.Eileen wrote:
Damage is handled totally different than any game I'm aware of. There are no hit points are anything like that. Here is how an attack works, this is the actual text I wrote in the game.Making Attacks
Once an attack is made, the target normally attempts to defend oneself by making a Defy Blow roll. If the Defy Blow roll results within 2 categories lower or higher than the attack, it is a glancing blow. If the attack result is 3 categories higher than the Defy Blow roll, it is a solid blow. If the Defy Blow roll exceeds the attack result by 3 or more categories, the attack is completely blocked.A solid blow indicates that the target suffered the full brunt of an attack and the Legionnaire or villain was unable to block, dodge, or otherwise protect themselves from the oncoming assault. Such an attack scored must have exceeded the defender’s defy blow roll by three or more categories.
Each time a Legionnaire or villain suffers a solid blow, they reduce their damage status by one or more steps as indicated under the Taking Damage rules on page xxx. When a solid blow occurs, the Cosmos Master determines the number of categories which exist between the attack result and the Defy Blow category. This is the number of potential damage conditions which may be lost from the solid blow. If the recipient of the attack has any remaining glancing blows available to them within their current damage status, they are lost and the damage status is reduced accordingly.
Each potential damage condition loss requires the defender to make a new Defy Blow roll, using their Toughness trait. Each subsequent Defy Blow roll utilizes the next lesser category using the top row of the USC, beginning with the attack roll category; thus each time, increasing the chances of making the Defy Blow roll. This process is repeated until the defender succeeds a Defy Blow roll, they are no longer able to fight, or they reach the maximum number of potential lost damage conditions.
A glancing blow occurs when a Legionnaire or villain is struck by an attack but they are able to avoid some of the damage by making a defy blow which is 2 categories lower or higher than the attack category. Each damage condition allows three glancing blows before reducing the individual to the next lower condition. Depending upon how the defy blow roll compares to the attack category received, the effects of the glancing blow may receive a special effect. The chart below shows the category difference between the attack and the defy blow roll, allowing the reader to determine the appropriate special effect gained as a result of the dice rolls. Thereafter, each special effect is described in detail
In short, they make an attack roll. The better they are the higher the category they are likely to roll on the chart. The defender makes a defy blow roll and the idea is to do about as good or better than the attacker did. If you roll well enough you blocked or dodged the blow. If you roll ok you got hit for a glancing blow. If you roll poorly you get struck for a solid blow at the category the attacker received. You then make anothe d% roll to see if the damage stopped at the next damage condition and so on until you succeed. Each failed roll reduces your character a damage condition. The higher the attacker rolled the far greater chance they will knock you for a loop.
Valegrim wrote:
Do you have an idea of what defines strength? In D&D it was how much could be lifted over the persons head. In champions; it is a little better; items have mass; if you have str equal to the mass you can move it; all strength over the mass is applied to what you can do with it; so if you have a 40 str and something takes 20 str to move; you have 20 str to do something with it; means you can throw it 4" if you wanted to as the game as a nice 1"per 5pts thing; so at 60 str you could throw it for 8" or 8d6 damage. Cool thing about Heroes games is the math was all very easy 5pts was 1d6 normal or 1".
Eileen wrote:
I have a definition and that was pretty much what you can lift. The traits are not defined super well. Here is what the actual text says:Strength
This is a measure of physical muscle capacity when used to lift or throw heavy objects as well as destroying them with one’s hands. Strength determines the amount of damage which occurs from a fist or martial arts fight.
Die rolls which utilize the Strength trait include many action feat rolls such as ripping open a sealed hatch on a space cruiser, smashing doors or walls down, or hurling a person across the battlefield. There are several Legionnaires who have super strength as one of a power, such as Superboy, Supergirl, Ultra Boy, Mon-el, Timber Wolf, or Ferro Lad.
I did this post in such a rush Valegrim. I don't know if it made things more confusing. Maybe it would help if I email you some of the actual rules and we could send an attachment so the chart would stay intact. I think we would get alot more out of this conversation if we did. Can you send me directions on sending you an attachment?
directions on sending an attachment; you mean in Gmail?
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Hmm, hottest Legionare? Dawnstar, definately.
I would call it a tie between Dawnstar and Shadow Lass. Mmm...
I think my favorite lregionnaire might have been Sun Boy. Always liked him. Element Lad also fun, but they never really seemed to know what to do with him.
All time goofiest, though: Matter-Eater Lad. No doubt.
Supergirl is really hot; she overloads my circuits; but Dream Girl is worth some deep comtemplation on many levels. Brainac
directions on sending an attachment; you mean in Gmail?
Yes
k; done
Frehold DM said:
In terms of powers, I say as many as possible- don't mess up like marvel did and take away super stats as an individual super power(this would allow for space/super karate like Karate Kid, and Brainiac 5's super intelligence).
Freehold, if you find this post I really would like to get a better understanding of what you meant. Sounds like a potential pitfall I should be wary of. Please respond!
Frehold DM said:
In terms of powers, I say as many as possible- don't mess up like marvel did and take away super stats as an individual super power(this would allow for space/super karate like Karate Kid, and Brainiac 5's super intelligence).Freehold, if you find this post I really would like to get a better understanding of what you meant. Sounds like a potential pitfall I should be wary of. Please respond!
Well, in my opinion, one of the few flaws of the Marvel Super Heroes system 2nd edition was that having exceptionally high stats in abilities like strength, intelligence, agility, reason, etc. was not considered a superhuman power even though it was considered such in the previous version. The problem with this was that it resulted in waaaay too many galactic-level games when rolling randomly(in the rules if you had over three stats that were over amazing resulted in a character that was only fit for galaxy-spanning games- Silver Surfer, etc). Keeping superhuman stats as a power is a good idea because it cuts down on the twink and results in well-rounded characters.
Well, in my opinion, one of the few flaws of the Marvel Super Heroes system 2nd edition was that having exceptionally high stats in abilities like strength, intelligence, agility, reason, etc. was not considered a superhuman power even though it was considered such in the previous version. The problem with this was that it resulted in waaaay too many galactic-level games when rolling randomly(in the rules if you had over three stats that were over amazing resulted in a character that was only fit for galaxy-spanning games- Silver Surfer, etc). Keeping superhuman stats as a power is a good idea because it cuts down on the twink and results in well-rounded characters.Frehold DM said:
In terms of powers, I say as many as possible- don't mess up like marvel did and take away super stats as an individual super power(this would allow for space/super karate like Karate Kid, and Brainiac 5's super intelligence).Freehold, if you find this post I really would like to get a better understanding of what you meant. Sounds like a potential pitfall I should be wary of. Please respond!
Ok, the approach I took was as follows....
1. You determine how powerful the Legionnaire or villain your creating will be and assigning a status number to represent that level of power
2. You get so many points to spend on ability scores. The higher your status number the greater amount of points you get to spend
3. If you want a super attribute (like Superboy's strength or Brainiac's intellegence, it comes out of the points you spend and then you also get the power that goes with it.
4. Each Legionnaire in the comics is being crafted by hand. I build the character as I think they are in the comics, then add up their overall worth to determine their status value, tweak it after that so it is incomplience with the character creation rules. For example, after assigning stats I may find that a Legionnaire spent 93 points. I would then adjust the points spent by a few so that it equals 90 or 95 which is what the character creation system allows. Basically add the character up at the end and assign the status for him that way. PCs are created just like any other game, following the character creation rules from start to finish.
This is the approach I took....keep in mind I have YET to play test. So is this a bad approach in your opinion based on your super-hero game experience?
In my experience, everyone is going to try to make a one-legion-character- guys like Ultra Boy(he IS a little unbalanced, even his limitation is more of a quirk than a real setback), Laurel Gand, Valor, etc- people who are more fire support than actual members of the team. Therefore, what you are suggesting, while wonderful for fans of the game who aren't going to try to one-up the Legion itself, opens the door to rabid twinkdom. I have no problem with point buy in this case, I just think it needs to be reworked.
In my experience, everyone is going to try to make a one-legion-character- guys like Ultra Boy(he IS a little unbalanced, even his limitation is more of a quirk than a real setback), Laurel Gand, Valor, etc- people who are more fire support than actual members of the team. Therefore, what you are suggesting, while wonderful for fans of the game who aren't going to try to one-up the Legion itself, opens the door to rabid twinkdom. I have no problem with point buy in this case, I just think it needs to be reworked.
The way the game is set up to be played, each player will have 3 regular Legionnaires they represent and they will create one as well. That means each player is responsible for 4 characters. Each Legionnaire and PC will have the status number to indicate how powerful they are compared to one another. A check and balance system will be put into place when they choose their Legionnaires as well as create one.
For example, a player will be able to play 1 powerhouse (Ultra Boy, Superboy, Supergirl), they can play 1 moderate character and 2 weaker characters. If they pick somebody like Ultra Boy, that covers their powerhouse, therefore the character they make cannot have that high of a status and they have to make a weaker character.
In our group we will have 3 players, each having 4 characters. Each player plays one character at a time, then like in the comics, when a scene has ended, they will switch to another character and play that one for awhile, then switch again, etc. Each small group will be working on their own plot which is intended to bring the entire storyline of all the groups together eventually.
I'm hoping this will solve the idea of some players being more powerful than others. Everyone gets a powerhouse, a mid power Legionnaire and 2 weaker ones.
How do you think this will work?
In my experience, everyone is going to try to make a one-legion-character- guys like Ultra Boy(he IS a little unbalanced, even his limitation is more of a quirk than a real setback), Laurel Gand, Valor, etc- people who are more fire support than actual members of the team. Therefore, what you are suggesting, while wonderful for fans of the game who aren't going to try to one-up the Legion itself, opens the door to rabid twinkdom. I have no problem with point buy in this case, I just think it needs to be reworked.The way the game is set up to be played, each player will have 3 regular Legionnaires they represent and they will create one as well. That means each player is responsible for 4 characters. Each Legionnaire and PC will have the status number to indicate how powerful they are compared to one another. A check and balance system will be put into place when they choose their Legionnaires as well as create one.
For example, a player will be able to play 1 powerhouse (Ultra Boy, Superboy, Supergirl), they can play 1 moderate character and 2 weaker characters. If they pick somebody like Ultra Boy, that covers their powerhouse, therefore the character they make cannot have that high of a status and they have to make a weaker character.
In our group we will have 3 players, each having 4 characters. Each player plays one character at a time, then like in the comics, when a scene has ended, they will switch to another character and play that one for awhile, then switch again, etc. Each small group will be working on their own plot which is intended to bring the entire storyline of all the groups together eventually.
I'm hoping this will solve the idea of some players being more powerful than others. Everyone gets a powerhouse, a mid power Legionnaire and 2 weaker ones.
How do you think this will work?
I think this is (*)(#$ing GENIUS! I love it- its very reminiscent of the "team" angle that was played up in the SW3 Legionnaires comic(Espionage Team, Close Combat Team[or whatever..I really only remember the Espionage Team], etc). I LOVE IT!!!!
BTW, in my weekly game, you and your theme song were mentioned...I would do a recap of it here, but we were all a little drunk. Let's just say one of the guys in the game has dedicated Saturday nights to you and leave it at that...
In my experience, everyone is going to try to make a one-legion-character- guys like Ultra Boy(he IS a little unbalanced, even his limitation is more of a quirk than a real setback), Laurel Gand, Valor, etc- people who are more fire support than actual members of the team. Therefore, what you are suggesting, while wonderful for fans of the game who aren't going to try to one-up the Legion itself, opens the door to rabid twinkdom. I have no problem with point buy in this case, I just think it needs to be reworked.I think this is (*)(#$ing GENIUS! I love it- its very reminiscent of the "team" angle that...The way the game is set up to be played, each player will have 3 regular Legionnaires they represent and they will create one as well. That means each player is responsible for 4 characters. Each Legionnaire and PC will have the status number to indicate how powerful they are compared to one another. A check and balance system will be put into place when they choose their Legionnaires as well as create one.
For example, a player will be able to play 1 powerhouse (Ultra Boy, Superboy, Supergirl), they can play 1 moderate character and 2 weaker characters. If they pick somebody like Ultra Boy, that covers their powerhouse, therefore the character they make cannot have that high of a status and they have to make a weaker character.
In our group we will have 3 players, each having 4 characters. Each player plays one character at a time, then like in the comics, when a scene has ended, they will switch to another character and play that one for awhile, then switch again, etc. Each small group will be working on their own plot which is intended to bring the entire storyline of all the groups together eventually.
I'm hoping this will solve the idea of some players being more powerful than others. Everyone gets a powerhouse, a mid power Legionnaire and 2 weaker ones.
How do you think this will work?
In regards to you group and the player you mentioned, I'm either honored or a little scared, I'm not sure which! Glad you liked my idea for handling group balance. I'm trying for a Legion game not just a generic superhero game. Hopefully someday I'll get through the mechanics so I can start with the fluff.
Those guys are powerhouses?
Fine.
There should be a "MAIN MAN" level as well.
For Lobo. And Lobo alone.
There is a Main Man category, it's called Typical! There is also a Heathansson category, its called Infinite BSer.
Spankyman, the Leprechaun from Bizarro Krypton can be my powerhouse.
Hey Mr. Evil Wolfman, you got room in your little group for a super-villainess?
Yeah. Can you fieldstrip a Gwaziringian Chainblaster with 12 positronic railguns in under 15 seconds?
Don't need one of those overated squirt guns, when you got as much super-awesomeness as me, companys that make those kinds of toys come to people like me for endorsements.
I'm so evil that the Legion of Super-Villains puts me down as a reference on their resume.
One problem you might have is powerful players interacting with much weaker players; specifically, what do weaker character do in an adventure with super tuff ones. Weaker characters feel unnecessary and unneeded and high power ones can deal with weak villians that would be challenge for the lower power characters.
everyone wants to feel that they contribute to the game; but like superman has said during numerous attempts to start the Justice League; he just doesnt need anyone else; they slow him down; and they get hurt.
team up superman, green arrow, and green lantern; and what is the archer going to do; not much. Aquaman wouldnt fair much better; team up wonderwoman; supergirl and that cowboy with the six shooters and well; he is just there for the commentary.
I am not saying these team ups wont work; several of the justice league stories have been about this very same issue; I would recommend watching them. It is important in a game to have the player feel like his character is getting development and play time; now, I think you will do and excellent job in this and have ever confidence in you; hehe, I am thinking you probably will need to explain to your players for their benefit that you are going to have challenges for each player regardless of the disparity in power level that is played; then find a way to make it stick. Disadvantages is a good way of doing this; but not a great way. If superman needed batman to get rid of kryptonite in every fight; well, that would get tiresome.
just food for thought; hehe and as much as you think about gaming; might just be snack crackers and cheese :)
sure; it only takes 4.289578436 seconds as it only have 4 moving parts, though some inferior intellects have trouble with both assembly and dissassembly of the quadified interlock safety aperatuss.
Yeah. Can you fieldstrip a Gwaziringian Chainblaster with 12 positronic railguns in under 15 seconds?