So... uh... the beholder cartoon... that was different.


4th Edition

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Not sure if this is good or bad marketing. Probably bad.

Check it out in Dragon on D&D Insider.

Scarab Sages

That...

Uhh...

That was...scary...

I need to wash my eyes...And my brains...

...Sklurgle...


I rather liked it. New, original, entertaining :)


Tatterdemalion wrote:
I rather liked it. New, original, entertaining :)

I'm with you, it was funny.


Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I thought it was humorous. A little creepy and little risky but funny.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

"First we hypnotize them with the power of a cartoon and they send us all their money."


i thought it was kinda funny.


It was cute, and surprisingly informative. I liked it, for what it intended: a lighthearted and funny cartoon.


Amusing but the ending was badly handled- D&D has to appeal to parents as much as kids, and having the beholder cussing into the camera was off color at best, downright stupid at worst.
It just confirms my suspicion that a gang of adolesent chimps runs Wizards PR department.

Scarab Sages

Can someone post a link?
I"m not signing up, so I can't see it.


Tatterdemalion wrote:
I rather liked it. New, original, entertaining :)

Agree, gave a little info but was fun.


fray wrote:

Can someone post a link?

I"m not signing up, so I can't see it.

I am signed up, but I can't figure out what the hell people are talking about either. It's not on the main Dragon site, it's not listed in Features, and it's not listed in Columns.


It's there in Dragon, under features...it's called, "On the Set of 4th Edition." I think the only way to watch is to sign up into D&D Insider. I'm not sure how to extract it. Maybe it will appear on YouTube some day.

I admit, I chuckled, a little - I mean I always felt like the beholder should have some shades (or a singular shade, as the case may be)...

But I don't know, it seemed just a little odd. I guess it's their way of keeping things light.

Next time use Samuel L. Jackson.


aw come on you bunch of grumps. I liked it. Made me laugh.

here's the D&D insider link
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20071031a


That was kewl. hehehehehehe...


firbolg wrote:

Amusing but the ending was badly handled- D&D has to appeal to parents as much as kids, and having the beholder cussing into the camera was off color at best, downright stupid at worst.

It just confirms my suspicion that a gang of adolesent chimps runs Wizards PR department.

Oh Pooh on you. that was funny.


Sir Kaikillah wrote:
firbolg wrote:

Amusing but the ending was badly handled- D&D has to appeal to parents as much as kids, and having the beholder cussing into the camera was off color at best, downright stupid at worst.

It just confirms my suspicion that a gang of adolesent chimps runs Wizards PR department.
Oh Pooh on you. that was funny.

Yes it certainly was funny, hope someone does manage to put it on You tube, but I don't suppose they could take a hint from the Order of the Stick and produce a monthly or gradual weekly show highlighting the changes in 4e even if slightly to show why they think its going to be better.

Still the beholder cartoon is still a sign of hope, what kind of hope however we'll have to wait and see...

Scarab Sages

I thought it was...interesting, to say the least. Although it might piss parents off, I enjoyed the ending.

One thing I noticed that I hadn't been aware of before, was the mention of no "save or die" effects in 4E. Maybe I'm suffering from amnesia, but when did they previously announce this? Iron Heroes had done the same thing, although for an obvious reason - no clerical healing magic or other types of spells like stone to flesh (for example). I wonder if this means that 4E will cut down on that type of magic as well?

Liberty's Edge

I am not sure about it. The comic was funny, that's true, but hey, I get the feeling those guys at WotC try every thing to get people to 4E. I don't know, make us laugh about that comic, and hey, everybody says:"Ok, let's have a look at the new rules!".

I am still not sure I am going to like 4E. I surely will buy the core books to really know what it's all about, but together with my players we decided long ago, that we will stick to 3.5 (or even 3.75) with house rules.

Anyway, the comic was fun, but the intend it is what I don't like.

I am not sure of I wrote what I meant, because english is sometimes hard for me!

Scarab Sages

Dryder wrote:
I am not sure of I wrote what I meant, because english is sometimes hard for me!

I wouldn't worry about it. Many of us grew up speaking English, and we also have problems.

Liberty's Edge

I agree with Dryder. I found it entertaining, but hardly informative. Fluff. Not Crunch.

I want crunch, too.


firbolg wrote:

Amusing but the ending was badly handled- D&D has to appeal to parents as much as kids, and having the beholder cussing into the camera was off color at best, downright stupid at worst.

It just confirms my suspicion that a gang of adolesent chimps runs Wizards PR department.

Yikes. How many dozen sales do you figure that one cartoon is going to cost them?

Dark Archive

firbolg wrote:

Amusing but the ending was badly handled- D&D has to appeal to parents as much as kids, and having the beholder cussing into the camera was off color at best, downright stupid at worst.

It just confirms my suspicion that a gang of adolesent chimps runs Wizards PR department.

I agree. Having the beholder drop the F bomb, even if it was beeped out, was very inappropriate. They are supposed to be makreting 4E to teenagers, right? Way to show parents how innocent D&D is. The demonic characters with domonic powers (tiefling warlock) is bad enough PR without cussing in D&D ads.


Funny is an overstatement. Mildly amusing though.

I do like the idea of 'save or die' going. There are some monsters I don't use simply because of that.

If the cartoon is anything to go by, petrification will be dexterity damage that probably affects them over so many rounds. If you don't get it cured before then you become, as the beholder said, 'a garden ornament'.

The logical jump to take is that 'save or die' spells are going the way of the dodo too. No more Finger of Death and such like.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
firbolg wrote:

Amusing but the ending was badly handled- D&D has to appeal to parents as much as kids, and having the beholder cussing into the camera was off color at best, downright stupid at worst.

It just confirms my suspicion that a gang of adolesent chimps runs Wizards PR department.

Well said.

Yet another reason I actually hope they fail enough, early enough, to try and save it...


I liked it, it was pretty amusing and well made. I don't agree with making monsters "fair" though; they should be nasty, scary and make PCs lives brutally short. If they don't then they're not monsters anymore, just light obstacles.


Colin McKinney wrote:
firbolg wrote:

Amusing but the ending was badly handled- D&D has to appeal to parents as much as kids, and having the beholder cussing into the camera was off color at best, downright stupid at worst.

It just confirms my suspicion that a gang of adolesent chimps runs Wizards PR department.
Yikes. How many dozen sales do you figure that one cartoon is going to cost them?

It's not about being a stick in the mud or a prude-that's not the point- when was the last time you saw a piece of profanity in publicity to sell anything to kids? Not even Bratz has sunk that low, cus they know cursing and kids is a hot button for any parent. That they hide it away in their website doesn't make it any less of a dumb move, it just limits its damage. It indicates a fundementally poor grasp of what's needed.

It's not a cartoon, it's an extended advertisment/PR piece and any ad man who thinks; "meh, let's have the eyebal monster mix it up and s**t, the kids will love it- we can afford to lose the squares- this s**t is satanic anyway, yah"? needs to get canned.

It's not a game suggested for Mature Players like Vampire- it's D&D- why narrow the already narrow field further by annoying parents on the fence? At they very least, it's not going to help sales by putting bleeps into it.
Hasbro needs to start taking care of business with WotC PR- a misjudgement like that shows just how slipshod the whole operation is getting.

You'd not see Jamie Lee Curtis come on the TV at Christmas and say "You sunk my Battleship, b***h".

Dark Archive Contributor

Chef's Slaad wrote:

aw come on you bunch of grumps. I liked it. Made me laugh.

here's the D&D insider link
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20071031a

Thanks for the link. I was hoping someone would post it.

Oh, but I have to sign in to watch it?

Pass.

Let me know when it hits YouTube. ;D


I don't think kids are in there demographic. I mean with all the demons and devils, both standard and rulers etc... I, myself, have no problem with these due to being in my 30's. However, I can see many parents out there not letting their children play D&D based just on that.

On a side note the cartoon is really tame compared to gollums acceptance speech on the mtv video awards. Google that.


Colin McKinney wrote:
firbolg wrote:

Amusing but the ending was badly handled- D&D has to appeal to parents as much as kids, and having the beholder cussing into the camera was off color at best, downright stupid at worst.

It just confirms my suspicion that a gang of adolesent chimps runs Wizards PR department.
Yikes. How many dozen sales do you figure that one cartoon is going to cost them?

How many of you would have been stopped from playing D&D, from your parents, because the beholder said F(bleep) this? Ok, How many parent on the message boards won't let thier children play D&D now that the beholder said F(bleep) this?

I think parents who would not let thier children play D&D because of the beholder said F(bleep) this, have found a dozen other reasons not to let thier children play D&D anyway. Probably don't let there children watch TV. Probably home school there children. Probably live on some compound in the Northwest with the second coming of chirst.

Sorry to all those in there basements stirring up curses in a cauldron for WotC, but WotC isn't going to lose a dime in sales from this little comic.


Mike McArtor wrote:
Chef's Slaad wrote:

aw come on you bunch of grumps. I liked it. Made me laugh.

...

Let me know when it hits YouTube. ;D

this thing has got too hit you tube. It's pretty funny mike.


yipwyg wrote:

I don't think kids are in there demographic. I mean with all the demons and devils, both standard and rulers etc... I, myself, have no problem with these due to being in my 30's. However, I can see many parents out there not letting their children play D&D based just on that.

On a side note the cartoon is really tame compared to gollums acceptance speech on the mtv video awards. Google that.

It depends on what you mean by a kid, but I know most parents aren't keen on their children thinking bad language is accceptable. As a fan flick, it's a hoot but as a piece of marketing by the biggest RPG company out there, it's a bad idea. I'm in my 30's myself, but our demographic isn't getting any younger and we need new blood. This kind of publicity adds another excuse for why kids shouldn't start playing D&D- we already have had enough suspicion and bad feeling, we don't need Wizards to add to it.

As to the Demons and Devils, it was always an aspect that was never played up, except by the hysterical media. The disclaimer that D&D is a work of imagination was always a decent and reasonable response in any case. That said, putting Orcus on the cover of a core book, while looking cool, isn't doing anyone any favors. We're just lucky the haters have bigger fish to fry.

Gollum's acceptance speech was aimed at teenagers for a movie that had already made it's money, so I don't think it's a fair comparison. New Line would have thrown a wobbler if the same speech had come out before Fellowship was released.


Amusing, but the end message was weird to me...beholders can now take on a whole party? That seems to imply they couldn't do so before, but last time I checked the "old" version(s) of the beholder are definitely powerful enough to take on a party alone. So, they're taking away/replacing the beholder's save-or-die abilities, but doing something else (I suppose) to make it be able to stand up to a party better than earlier versions? The only thing a beholder is really missing is self-healing and that can be rectified with appropriate magic items.

So, what was the purpose again?


Mike McArtor wrote:


Oh, but I have to sign in to watch it?
Pass.
Let me know when it hits YouTube. ;D

Here is something on Youtube - anticipating 4th Edition,

not exactly relevant to the conversation,
but I thought it was amusing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLPm3x_cirg

If the link doesn't work, It can also be accessed by searching 4dventure directly on youtube.


Sir Kaikillah wrote:


Sorry to all those in there basements stirring up curses in a cauldron for WotC, but WotC isn't going to lose a dime in sales from this little comic.

Like I said before, whether it's funny or not, or whether or not they lose a penny is moot- it just shows poor judgement in their marketing, which is supposed to appeal to the maximum amount of potential customers. If this particular molehill has gotten mountainous, it's just because you don't expect this from a company that's seeking to expand back into its younger demographic- it's just daft.

I don't think anyone wants Wizards to fail, but as a whole, their PR/ Marketing over the past few months has been shambolic. This small misstep is just one more symptom.


Midrealm DM wrote:
Mike McArtor wrote:


Oh, but I have to sign in to watch it?
Pass.
Let me know when it hits YouTube. ;D

Here is something on Youtube - anticipating 4th Edition,

not exactly relevant to the conversation,
but I thought it was amusing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLPm3x_cirg

If the link doesn't work, It can also be accessed by searching 4dventure directly on youtube.

Okay, that's just class.


erian_7 wrote:

Amusing, but the end message was weird to me...beholders can now take on a whole party? That seems to imply they couldn't do so before, but last time I checked the "old" version(s) of the beholder are definitely powerful enough to take on a party alone. So, they're taking away/replacing the beholder's save-or-die abilities, but doing something else (I suppose) to make it be able to stand up to a party better than earlier versions? The only thing a beholder is really missing is self-healing and that can be rectified with appropriate magic items.

So, what was the purpose again?

I think they meant more that it wasn't changing. A lot of the monster talk has been about teams of monsters acting like the party in diffrent roles. I think that was stating that the beholder as a solo is balanced to take on a whole party unlike many of the redone monsters


I think kids are in the 7-12 year range, technically I would not let kids under 7 play it at all.

I think that D&D is primarily a pg-13 type of game. I'm just saying that if the parents see that video and get pissed off enough to not let their children (7-12)play it vs someone that picks up the players handbook and monster manual and sees all the pictures of demons, devils, and a race that makes pacts with them as well and says that is acceptable there is something wrong with the parent.

Again I am different, I'm a gamer. I would let my child, if I had one, play. I would just tone it down.


firbolg wrote:


I don't think anyone wants Wizards to fail, but as a whole, their PR/ Marketing over the past few months has been shambolic. This small misstep is just one more symptom.

You may not want WotC to fail but many on these boards do, I think they will dislike anything out of WotC nowadays.

I agree, WotC has done a lot to goof the PR of 4th edition. I just take the animated comic as a joke and nothing more. I think its a matter of taste, I ain't known for good taste in jokes, I enjoy fart jokes, hhehehe..

But I disagree with you about the beholder interview as a Pr miss step. I my self called the members of my gaming group, told them to register to DDI just to see that bit. In fact it is the only reason I would recomend my players to register on DDI (ok Hells Heart is worth th effort). So as far as that goes it worked, I'm no longer the only person in my group registered at DDI.


yipwyg wrote:

I think kids are in the 7-12 year range, technically I would not let kids under 7 play it at all.

I think that D&D is primarily a pg-13 type of game. I'm just saying that if the parents see that video and get pissed off enough to not let their children (7-12)play it vs someone that picks up the players handbook and monster manual and sees all the pictures of demons, devils, and a race that makes pacts with them as well and says that is acceptable there is something wrong with the parent.

Again I am different, I'm a gamer. I would let my child, if I had one, play. I would just tone it down.

I've played D&D with my 5 year old neices and nephew. I admit a watered down version of D&D. But with all the sense of wonder, suspense, and excitement still intact. But I agree, D&D is a PG 13 type of game. Would I let my 5 year old nieces and nephew watch that video? No, they wouldn't get it anyway. Would my cousin let her 14 year old son watch it, sure. Would I let him speak that way arround me? He knows better and No I would not.

The humor is not for school age children. But is it appropriate for the pg 13 audience? Sure, even if the language would not be cool arround me. I'm not comfortable with adults swearing a lot arround me either. But sometimes you gotta say what the F(bleep).


You know, at the ren faires I attend, there's a really popular group of performers called the Tortuga Twins. Most of their acts are inappropriate for but the last one of the day is always geared specifically for adults.

They go thru great lengths to convey this early on in the last performance by throwing out enough unscrupulous humor to give parents the hint that they need to leave and take their kids with them. "Hey kids, remember that 'lesbian' is another name for grandma." ... "If You find that all the adults are laughing and You don't understand why, promise me You'll pester Mommy or Daddy until they tell You. If they won't then just ask Your teachers or the principal at school." ... "If You're the sort of person who is going to take offense and call our boss, then GET THE HELL OUT NOW because the rest of us all want to have a good time!"

Anyway, You get the idea. I see the beholder cursing at the end of the flick in the same vein. "If You're thin-skinned enough for this to be offensive to You or You're leary about Your kids hearing this then THIS IS PROBABLY NOT THE PRODUCT FOR YOU!" Pretty simple really.

Liberty's Edge

Gotta love those flash animations. An interesting way to bring us information, but I halfway expected it to end with a rousing round of
Dire Badger,Dire Badger,Dire Badger,Dire Badger,Dire Badger,Dire Badger,Dire Badger,Myconid!Myconid! :)

I hope they keep'em coming. It's a great tongue in cheek way to ease us into 4E.


Laithoron wrote:

...

Anyway, You get the idea. I see the beholder cursing at the end of the flick in the same vein. "If You're thin-skinned enough for this to be offensive to You or You're leary about Your kids hearing this then THIS IS PROBABLY NOT THE PRODUCT FOR YOU!" Pretty simple really.

That is a very good point.


I agree that the profanity - even bleeped - was unnecessary. I don't have a problem with it if it serves a purpose, but in this case, it just came out of nowhere and for no reason. The joke was already over at that point. They could have skipped the "F*** this" without losing anything.


Brom Blackforge wrote:
I agree that the profanity - even bleeped - was unnecessary. I don't have a problem with it if it serves a purpose, but in this case, it just came out of nowhere and for no reason. The joke was already over at that point. They could have skipped the "F*** this" without losing anything.

You know your not supposed to discuss the infamous bleep on the thread about the Beholder cartoon at WotC. Something about it distracts from any other discussion about the cartoon. Hmmm.


I thought it was amusing and well done (for what it was). I have to admit, my expectations were pretty low to start with. When I first saw it (before I played it), I thought it was going smell really awful.


Sir Kaikillah wrote:
Laithoron wrote:

...

Anyway, You get the idea. I see the beholder cursing at the end of the flick in the same vein. "If You're thin-skinned enough for this to be offensive to You or You're leary about Your kids hearing this then THIS IS PROBABLY NOT THE PRODUCT FOR YOU!" Pretty simple really.
That is a very good point.

It is a fine point indeed, but my original point still stands- it was just unnecessary for marketing- every element of a decent marketing campaign is aimed at garnering more sales- if it any part fails at that, then it should go. No one is going to go "D&D, the f-bomb game, count me in!"

Liberty's Edge

Krypter wrote:
I liked it, it was pretty amusing and well made. I don't agree with making monsters "fair" though; they should be nasty, scary and make PCs lives brutally short. If they don't then they're not monsters anymore, just light obstacles.

I concur. Part of the fun and thrill of the game is the risk of a sucky roll.

Actually, in my games, we have a new save, called Will to Live (DC 10 + No. of times you die.) If you fail your will save, resurrect (or raise dead) simply doesn't work. It's claimed a few characters' lives.

What do the players do? Make new characters.

Scarab Sages

So what if I abso-freakin'-lutely refuse to sign up for D&D Insider or PukeMax? :P

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