I have a question for you, actually several but what it boils down to is that they are making some rather extreme changes to this setting for 4e and I wanted to know your feelings on the matter and correct me where I've might have misunderstood whats been stated so far;
1) Tyr kills Helm in a duel over the affections of Tymora thanks to Sune for reasons that aren't clear except they seem to indicate Cyric got them both to drink an enhanced version of a philtre of love...
2) The Faerun setting is being set 10 years ahead of the 3e version and not the 100 years indicated at the start of The Orc King...
3) Mystra is slain in her home plane of dweomerheart by Cyric and Shar, the result is that she is effectively destroyed permanently and the backlash of this kills countless spellcasters, renders others insane and has been called the Spellplague.
4)There is a side effect that results from this "Spell Plague" that causes Faerun to merge with something that was split from it by an elvish high sorcery and this will not only explain the presence of the Eladrin but also the increase in numbers of Tieflings although exactly how hasn't been said but there have been indications the Eladrin fled an invasion in their own home plain and that whatever did invade might have arrived in Faerun and caused this...
5) There's a thread in Wizard's community where they ask what you would come up with if YOU were behind the changes and I answered saying the bit about Tyr and Helm was actually lies spread by Cyric's church following his imprisonment, all of the gods have had their access to Faerun cut so they can only interact with Faerun like the Sovereign Host can in Eberron.
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I personally believe that all of this is a load of garbage that is big middle finger to Forgotten Realms fans. It is being done for several reasons:
1) the big MaGuffin to explain changes to magic and cosmology in 4E
2) to adopt to 4E "points of light" model while making things simpler for the WOW addicts that 4E is meant to appeal to. Now there are lots of dungeons to clear and monsters to kill between town A and town B.
3) to justify the reprinting of 4E versions of Monsters of Faerun, Magic of Faerun, etc.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I personally believe that all of this is a load of garbage that is big middle finger to Forgotten Realms fans. It is being done for several reasons:
1) the big MaGuffin to explain changes to magic and cosmology in 4E
2) to adopt to 4E "points of light" model while making things simpler for the WOW addicts that 4E is meant to appeal to. Now there are lots of dungeons to clear and monsters to kill between town A and town B.
3) to justify the reprinting of 4E versions of Monsters of Faerun, Magic of Faerun, etc.
You forgot:
4) Blowing everything up so to play in the 'current' realms all the 2e and 3e fluff went kablooie!|
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I personally believe that all of this is a load of garbage that is big middle finger to Forgotten Realms fans.
That would be the same big middle finger they have been giving Greyhawk fans for a long time. My condolences to you Realms fans who are seeing for the first time how badly they can hose your favorite setting.
There is a solution, however: Pathfinder!!
My current plan is reinforced by this: I'm not going to believe anything I see in print about 4E until the print is in my hands, having handed over my cash to the guy at my FLGS sometime next spring/summer. Until WOTC ships the books, every single thing that we see in the blogs or on the Internet or hear at a gaming convention is just heresay.
Now, some of it's going to be true; maybe a lot of it. What makes me sad, and a little sick, is going over to the WOTC boards and seeing people talking about changes they expect to be made, and things they'd like to see, and they think they've got a chance of making a difference on content for the PHB, which, according to the official schedule, is complete, except for final editing.
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3) Mystra is slain in her home plane of dweomerheart by Cyric and Shar, the result is that she is effectively destroyed permanently and the backlash of this kills countless spellcasters, renders others insane and has been called the Spellplague.
At this point it's not FR anymore.
The gods, and Mystra more than any other, are inexorably intertwined with the world ever since the Time Of Troubles. That's been the internal logic that held the world together over two iterations.
This new approach can only work if you ignore the "rules" of FR.
1. Gods don't get to kill each other - power is determined by number of worshippers, to kill off a god you destroy their faith.
2. Mystra IS The Weave - if you kill her then certain things must follow:
- end of all normal arcane magic, after any backlash or whatnot there would be only shadow-weave magic.
- death/defeat of all the big Ed Greenwood characters (as they are all tied to Mystra and arcane magic) including Elminster, The Seven Sisters, Halaster, Khelben...
- this includes the vast majority of magic items failing.
- All remaining arcane casters would be follwers of Shar, she's suddenly the most powerful god/goddess.
This is all very 'pints of light...' A world with only evil arcane magic might be a lot of fun, but it's not very FR at all.
If this is true then no wonder Ed Greenwood is talking a lot about it no longer being his intellectual property. All that would remain is the map (and, of course, the drizzt cash-cow).
- death/defeat of all the big Ed Greenwood characters (as they are all tied to Mystra and arcane magic) including Elminster, The Seven Sisters, Halaster, Khelben...
And this would be bad because...? ;) Sorry, the uber-characters in FR have been what I've hated the most about the setting. I don't condone setting Armageddon though, especially for business/rules related reasons such as a new edition.
I personally believe that all of this is a load of garbage that is big middle finger to Forgotten Realms fans. It is being done for several reasons:
1) the big MaGuffin to explain changes to magic and cosmology in 4E
2) to adopt to 4E "points of light" model while making things simpler for the WOW addicts that 4E is meant to appeal to. Now there are lots of dungeons to clear and monsters to kill between town A and town B.
3) to justify the reprinting of 4E versions of Monsters of Faerun, Magic of Faerun, etc.
You forgot what's probably the main reason: making it feasible for new DMs to try out the Realms without having to wade though decades of material. Eberron seemed to be WotC's attempt to hook a younger crowd, but I suspect the setting didn't turn out to be as popular as they'd hoped. Most players are still loyal to FR, but the sheer volume of background can be intimidating to new folks, especially DMs. I predict that 4E will be more Realms-centric - note that the 4E FR campaign setting and DM book have already been announced, but nothing about Eberron. This year's Game Day adventure is set in the Realms, while previous entries had been setting neutral. FR is obviously set to come back in a big way, though it might not be the same place you remember.
The handling of FR is just one more in the vast pile of miscalculations that is 4e. I really wonder if WotC did any market research at all before committing to this stuff.
It's clear that the "fire the audience" mandate is in full force, but I wonder where they think the replacement audience will come from?
I've been an avid FR fan for 20 years, but I'm predicting the setting will be cancelled within 6 months of its 4e rollout. There's simply too little left for the old-timers to hang on to, and nothing that I've seen that would interest newcomers enough to draw them away from their existing campaign settings.
(As for 4e itself, my prediction is that it will start strong, then sales will start to sag, much sooner than they did with 3e. The game will sell solidly, but not well enough to satisfy the Hasbro shareholders...in a public corporation, "good enough" is not good enough. 4e might hang on for 2-3 years, but no new edition will be forthcoming, and eventually the game will be cancelled and the IP rolled into a new Hasbro MMORPG initiative.)
But the FR novel line is still profitable, and the IP holds quite a bit of value, so there's no chance Hasbro will sell FR to some other game company. So, we FR fans can go sit with the Greyhawk fans and (soon) the Dragonlance fans, and we can all cry in our beers.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16
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Eberron seemed to be WotC's attempt to hook a younger crowd, but I suspect the setting didn't turn out to be as popular as they'd hoped. Most players are still loyal to FR . . .
I'm not sure that this is the case. Without sales data from WotC I can't say for sure but I think Eberron has been doing very well. In fact as a manager of a bookstore I can say that at least in my corner of the retail world Eberron seems to sell just a little better than FR, even among old guard (I know that is not necessarily a national trend either but interesting).
As an aside (although it's probably been addressed somewhere) what's the deal with the picture of the warforged in the Grand History of the Realms? The book is on my shelf at work but haven't had time to do more than flip through it very briefly. Did WotC think the Realms needed an injection of Eberron? *shakes head*
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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As an aside (although it's probably been addressed somewhere) what's the deal with the picture of the warforged in the Grand History of the Realms? The book is on my shelf at work but haven't had time to do more than flip through it very briefly. Did WotC think the Realms needed an injection of Eberron? *shakes head*
Recycled Art. Always the sign of the end of an edition.
Actually Mystra being killed by Cyric is one of the things that makes sense (Well not with home court advantage, but still). Cyric killed Leria -after- the Time of Troubles, and Ao said it was allowed since his portfolio included murder. But... Then Cyric should have 'inherited' her portfolio, and how can the other gods put him under 'house arrest' since he was doing his job?
What about Isis? She doesn't get a shot at the weave? W/o a Weave, shouldn't psions rock until things stabalize, since they make their own 'Weave'? It just sounds like blowing things up for blowing them up.
When they Symbul went from a wizard in 2e to a Sorcerer in 3E, there was no big explination, simply that she always was. They didn't need to blow up the world to do that.
With every edition of the game, allthe major gaming worlds get an overhaul as new product is released. I'm not going to dump on the new FR prematurely. For all I know, the new storylines will be awesome and make sense. Personally I was getting kind of sick and tired of the same old stagnant world, with uber powerful good guys around every corner. 4th edition seems like its going to shake the world up a bit. Sure Elminster and Drizzt will still be there, and so will your favorite towns and cities, but now we get to set our games in a brand new political arena, and be there in the action as new allainces are forged and the world reshapes itself into something new and excition.
Or it could all be one horrible pile of steaming Gorgon road apples. It depends on the writers. WE will have to wait and see.
--the Osquip--
P.S. Then again.. I think about what happened to Dragonlance during the "5th age" where Weis was no longer in control....*shudders*....Change for change's sake is never good.
With every edition of the game, allthe major gaming worlds get an overhaul as new product is released. I'm not going to dump on the new FR prematurely. For all I know, the new storylines will be awesome and make sense. Personally I was getting kind of sick and tired of the same old stagnant world, with uber powerful good guys around every corner. 4th edition seems like its going to shake the world up a bit. Sure Elminster and Drizzt will still be there, and so will your favorite towns and cities, but now we get to set our games in a brand new political arena, and be there in the action as new allainces are forged and the world reshapes itself into something new and excition.
Or it could all be one horrible pile of steaming Gorgon road apples. It depends on the writers. WE will have to wait and see.
--the Osquip--
P.S. Then again.. I think about what happened to Dragonlance during the "5th age" where Weis was no longer in control....*shudders*....Change for change's sake is never good.
About the only good sign is that J. Wyatt used Silverymoon in his campaign example although I think he meant he was going to run a campaign...
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With every edition of the game, allthe major gaming worlds get an overhaul as new product is released. I'm not going to dump on the new FR prematurely. For all I know, the new storylines will be awesome and make sense. Personally I was getting kind of sick and tired of the same old stagnant world, with uber powerful good guys around every corner. 4th edition seems like its going to shake the world up a bit. Sure Elminster and Drizzt will still be there, and so will your favorite towns and cities, but now we get to set our games in a brand new political arena, and be there in the action as new allainces are forged and the world reshapes itself into something new and excition.
Or it could all be one horrible pile of steaming Gorgon road apples. It depends on the writers. WE will have to wait and see.
--the Osquip--
P.S. Then again.. I think about what happened to Dragonlance during the "5th age" where Weis was no longer in control....*shudders*....Change for change's sake is never good.
From the way it sounds, there may be a few big cities left but not many. I don't think Elminster will around, but that's not the point. It may sound difficult to believe, but the Forgotten Realms is more than a few high level NPC's, Waterdeep, the Underdark, and Cormyr. I think that you are bit optomistic thinking of a new political arena. What sort of politics can you have in a wasteland? I believe one of the reasons to make everything "points of light" is because concepts such as politics, laws, organizations, intrigue, even civilization itself are too complex and involved for their target audience. All of that stuff would get in the way of the endless loot and hackfest that its target demographic wants.
My copy of A Grand History of the Realms (sp?) is still in the mail, but if I have understood it correctly, the dramatic events won't take place for another ten years or so. Is this correct? For us who play chronologically, these disasters won't happen for a long time..
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My copy of A Grand History of the Realms (sp?) is still in the mail, but if I have understood it correctly, the dramatic events won't take place for another ten years or so. Is this correct? For us who play chronologically, these disasters won't happen for a long time..
I think you're right about that. The thing is, however, that they are supposed to be jumping the 4E FR timeline ahead by about 10 years or so.
I think you're right about that. The thing is, however, that they are supposed to be jumping the 4E FR timeline ahead by about 10 years or so.
I know, but if you don't jump, you still have ten years of playtime. Even then, you can choose not to care. Or, you could just rule that all your arcane spellcasters die or goes insane. Now that's quite fun..
I know I'm slow and all but when did orcs stop eating babies and start saving them instead?
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Unless you happen to be playing an arcane caster. Yeah, we can keep on playing Forgotten Realms and forget that the stuff happened. I'd rather do that than convert my campaign to d20 Faerun Apocolypse. I suspect that's what most people will do. Of course, this crud will have to bleed into the novel lines (How can something this big not!) which were quite enjoyable for me. I won't have much interest in any gaming product or novel set after this silly spellplague.
I agree totally.i will be starting a new FR campaign soon probably coinciding with 4e. and my players want to game in the realms. so I have agreed. but i have always disliked how the realms is too fleshed out. bear with me. everytime we go to a town and i dont have all the precise details memorized ie whos the mayor what are the guilds etc... i may have a player who does know and calls me on it. and that ruins the realism of the game. so its good as a dm to have the freedom to make things up on the fly.
So why play in the realms if your players know it better? Honestly your players are bieng quite rude if they want you to dm a campaign then constantly correct you on it. The problem isnt the realms its your players wanting their version of the realms but you doing all the DM work. You dont play in the realms you wont have that problem. I also think this problem will occur again in the FR once a few novels and expansions come out (Cause honestly does any one believe there will be one points of light hard cover Realms book and no books/expansions?). Its always the problem with worlds that have novels and guide books constantly updating them that both the DM and players will read. In fact even initially before the new books come out you probably still will have the problem but now you'll get to remind them that Wizards changed it not you.
No-one mentions the deicide among the drow deities? Shame on you surfacers! ;-)
Regarding the changes that will come with 4E ... those wanting to ignore it could (and yes, I know that it is a big "could") simply switch back in time, for there are still 20,000odd years of Faerûnian history without Spellplague needing to bother anyone of you in the slightest. But the sting of the knoweldge that there WILL be a "Ragnageddon" coming your way still hurts.
Ever since the War of the Spider Queen (stretching over 6 novels (or rather 9, as it unfolds now) and 4 years in real time - in essence some 150 to 200 game sessions) I stopped playing close to the current timeline. Just take Lady Penitent or The Haunted Lands as examples. Players and DM still have to wait what unfolds there till mid-/late-2008 ... and the omens from TGHotR simply kill all games set amongst the drow or in Thay, as players and DM hardly have a clue what will happen there. Or has happened to those not mentioned in the novels so far. (E.g., the Vhaeraunian drow of Cormanthor or Ched Nasad or Chaulssin ... should have all converted or exited the faiths by now. But have they? Or converted to whom?)
I know that I won't leave the Realms because of 4E. Neither will I join the growing Eberron following (this setting has not yet managed to spark my interest). Pathfinder needs some more exploration before I comment.
Pathfinder needs some more exploration before I comment.But I'd be quite interested in what you have to say about the Drow of (under) Golarion (next year in the "Second Darkness"-AP). :)
Welcome to the boards, this is a pleasant surprise.
We are everywhere ... but not everyone knows it.
(But now you have suddenly increased my interest a thousandfold. Drow of Golarion ... hm ...)
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A first taste from the blog (19.10.07):
Drow of Golarion: Drow are certainly a hot topic among fans of the game. A lot of people actively hate them for various reasons, it seems, but nonetheless, every time a drow ended up on the cover of a magazine, that magazine sold incredibly well. More to the point, drow have been (and remain) one of my favorite villains for the game. There's just something so delightfully warped about elves who live in non-elven areas deep underground, who worship demons, who have a sadistic matriarchal society, and who have all sorts of creepy magic items and tricks up their sleeves. The old D&D adventure "Queen of the Spiders" remains my favorite D&D adventure of all time in large part due to the drow, who were of course first introduced in that series as an evil mastermind race of bad guys. Eclavdra, Erelhei-Cinlu, tentacle rods, death lances, the Elder Elemental Eye, temples that were actually called fanes, and the demons the drow trafficked with are where I'll be going for inspiration for Second Darkness. Don't expect any angst-ridden heroic loner drow in Second Darkness—these drow will be villains through and through. We've also got some new angles for drow in Golarion as well, something that I'm not allowed to reveal quite yet, but it does have something to do with where drow come from.
Just in case you didn't see it.
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A first taste from the blog (19.10.07):
Drow of Golarion: Drow are certainly a hot topic among fans of the game. A lot of people actively hate them for various reasons, it seems, but nonetheless, every time a drow ended up on the cover of a magazine, that magazine sold incredibly well. More to the point, drow have been (and remain) one of my favorite villains for the game. There's just something so delightfully warped about elves who live in non-elven areas deep underground, who worship demons, who have a sadistic matriarchal society, and who have all sorts of creepy magic items and tricks up their sleeves. The old D&D adventure "Queen of the Spiders" remains my favorite D&D adventure of all time in large part due to the drow, who were of course first introduced in that series as an evil mastermind race of bad guys. Eclavdra, Erelhei-Cinlu, tentacle rods, death lances, the Elder Elemental Eye, temples that were actually called fanes, and the demons the drow trafficked with are where I'll be going for inspiration for Second Darkness. Don't expect any angst-ridden heroic loner drow in Second Darkness—these drow will be villains through and through. We've also got some new angles for drow in Golarion as well, something that I'm not allowed to reveal quite yet, but it does have something to do with where drow come from.Just in case you didn't see it.
Sounds interesting. Knowing the work of Mr. Jacobs, it will knock our socks off.
Seems I need to get into contact with that man soon. Maybe my plan for the "Demonicon of the woman with the unpronouncable name" just switched sides ...
So, apparently people thought that the Realms would not change? When all past indications from the previous two edition changes it's been through clearly pointed out otherwise? Did anyone honestly think you wouldn't have to buy new FR books once 4E came out, or is it just another excuse to b$%~+?
At this point it's not FR anymore.
Eh, and what about before that? People were ticked off over the Time of Troubles and there were screams of 'Gods walking the Realms? What bull! This isn't the Realms anymore!'. They got over it, and people will get over this.
If this is true then no wonder Ed Greenwood is talking a lot about it no longer being his intellectual property. All that would remain is the map (and, of course, the drizzt cash-cow).
You do know that it hasn't been Ed's IP since day one, right? That they made extensive changes to the thing before it ever saw the light of day? That the Realms was sold lock, stock, and barell to TSR? WoTC has been nice enough to let him continue to write for it and about it, but it all passes through their review and I'm certain he gets edited as heavily as any other freelancer doing work-for-pay.
You know that the map was changed a bit for 3E, right? So it's not even 'that' map anymore and hasn't been for several years now.
I know I'm slow and all but when did orcs stop eating babies and start saving them instead?
In The Orc King, basically.
The prologue of the book suggests this effort was largely successful.
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So, apparently people thought that the Realms would not change? When all past indications from the previous two edition changes it's been through clearly pointed out otherwise? Did anyone honestly think you wouldn't have to buy new FR books once 4E came out, or is it just another excuse to b@!%*?
At this point it's not FR anymore.
Eh, and what about before that? People were ticked off over the Time of Troubles and there were screams of 'Gods walking the Realms? What bull! This isn't the Realms anymore!'. They got over it, and people will get over this.
If this is true then no wonder Ed Greenwood is talking a lot about it no longer being his intellectual property. All that would remain is the map (and, of course, the drizzt cash-cow).You do know that it hasn't been Ed's IP since day one, right? That they made extensive changes to the thing before it ever saw the light of day? That the Realms was sold lock, stock, and barell to TSR? WoTC has been nice enough to let him continue to write for it and about it, but it all passes through their review and I'm certain he gets edited as heavily as any other freelancer doing work-for-pay.
You know that the map was changed a bit for 3E, right? So it's not even 'that' map anymore and hasn't been for several years now.
We didn't expect the Realms not to change. We expected a logical progression of events based on history (The Zhentarim take over most of the Moonsea, etc.) plus updates of all the changes that have taken place since the 3.5 Player's Guide to Faerun (the reclaiming of Myth Drannor, the founding of the Kingdom of Many Arrows, etc.). We didn't expect the Forgotten Realms to essentially be blown up and have certain fundamental aspects of it (the Weave and FR cosmology) disappear, and then be replaced with a cobbled together "points of light" setting where most kingdoms and cultures have been blown back to the stone age. This is especially troublesome because it is being done to give WOW addicts more monster-infested areas to clear without complicated things like politics, intrigue, laws, and all of the trappings of civization to get in their way while also giving WotC a conveinient excuse to reprint Magic of Faerun, Monsters of Faerun, Faiths and Pantheons, etc for 4th edition.
All these changes do annoy the old timer in me that grew up on pages from the mages and the old Grey Box, but the more I think of it a points of light idea isn't so bad provided it is set considerably later than 10 years from current chronos.
There have been enough "save the realms" novels and adventures. I can accept that just maybe, the "heroes" failed and catastrophe struck.
Hell, even a massive rage of dragons taht wan't stopped could create a points of light campaign.
Sounds better to me than gods murdering each other and prime material planes merging.
You do know that it hasn't been Ed's IP since day one, right? That they made extensive changes to the thing before it ever saw the light of day? That the Realms was sold lock, stock, and barell to TSR? WoTC has been nice enough to let him continue to write for it and about it, but it all passes through their review and I'm certain he gets edited as heavily as any other freelancer doing work-for-pay.
Added emphasis mine . . .
Completely separate from the entire discussion about if the Realms should change for 4th edition and how drastically, I think you are doing Ed a great disservice by casting his contributions to the Realms since its publication in this light.
Ed has freely admitted for a long time the the Realms isn't just his baby anymore, and honestly, there have been some great contributors to the Realms over the years that may not have done things exactly as Ed would have, but still have followed his lead in shaping the Realms.
Not only do the majority of freelancers, as well as some WOTC staffers like Rich Baker, consult Ed Greenwood often when working on Realms material, but so do many of the best known and respected authors of the Forgotten Realms novels.
WOTC "lets" Ed contribute to the Realms not because they have sympathy for the "old dinosaur," and then have to drastically edit his manuscripts as the clean off the drool marks, but rather, they "let" him contribute because Ed Greenwood's name on a sourcebook sells more copies. I'd be willing to bet the Paizo guys will agree that Greenwood's name still drew in readers to the magazine when he contributed as well.
3) Mystra is slain in her home plane of dweomerheart by Cyric and Shar, the result is that she is effectively destroyed permanently and the backlash of this kills countless spellcasters, renders others insane and has been called the Spellplague.
Really? Slain on her Home plane?
That the Realms was sold lock, stock, and barell to TSR?
I'm sure someone else can chime in with more information, but this is incorrect. TSR, and later WotC, did not own the Realms lock, stock, and and barrel. If I recall correctly, they have exclusive rights to use of the Realms for certain purposes (such as RPGs and novels, among other things) provided that certain conditions are met on an annual basis, such as the publication of a set volume of Realmsian verbiage. Failure to meet these conditions would result in these rights reverting back to Ed.
Again, I don't know the specific details and indeed no one who does may be able to confirm the precise elements of the agreement between Greenwood and TSR/WotC, but it is most emphatically not the case that Ed sold the Realms wholly and completely.
Really? Slain on her Home plane?
Yep. Because it's just that easy to kill the setting's most powerful deity in the middle of her seat of power.
Welcome to Realms 4e Plot Hammer Theater.
All these changes do annoy the old timer in me that grew up on pages from the mages and the old Grey Box, but the more I think of it a points of light idea isn't so bad provided it is set considerably later than 10 years from current chronos.
There have been enough "save the realms" novels and adventures. I can accept that just maybe, the "heroes" failed and catastrophe struck.
Hell, even a massive rage of dragons taht wan't stopped could create a points of light campaign.
Sounds better to me than gods murdering each other and prime material planes merging.
Actually, my last FR campaign ended by having the world plunged into a Dark Ages, with all the major cities burning and civilization collapsing. Hmm...
Ironically enough, that campaign was the 3.0 adventure path, ending with Bastion of Broken Souls. So, the AP that was supposed to usher in 3.0 can be used to bridge to 4.0.
You've got to love railroad plots.
Choo! CHoo!
All a bored!
Chug-a-chug-a chug-a
I like trains!
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I know I'm slow and all but when did orcs stop eating babies and start saving them instead?I believe that Aberzombie was just posing a hypothetical situation. While intersting, this sort of scenario is much more suited to Eberron than Forgotten Realms.
Actually no, I wasn't. They pretty much state that this is what is in store for the whole Silver Marches/Kingdom of Many Arrows region of the Realms. Check out the prologue for Salvatore's The Orc King. You can find it somewhere on the internet as a PDF download.
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You forgot:
4) Blowing everything up so to play in the 'current' realms all the 2e and 3e fluff went kablooie!
Yah, they probably got really tired of people always saying "the fluff from 2e and 1e is still just as useful today, you don't need to buy the new Waterdeep book! I have enough background information for years of playing without buying their new reprints of old material!"
I'm still trying to figure out how someone smasssshes buttons on tabletop ?
Thanks for calling me dumb, I guess all those reasons that I never played Fearun before being mostly addressed ( wont see really until i get a book to read but i had high hopes) wont ever address that FR tend to be in my perception the biggest bunch of elitist and snobby fans in existance.
I guess maybe that was the underlying reason after all.
I believe that the "smashing buttons" comment was in regards to the changes made to the Elder Scrolls setting, regarding a computer/console RPG in which someone could, conceivably, smash buttons.
I'll be interested to see if you and others like you that had problems with various staple aspects of the Realms do indeed become fans of the setting once it has been changed. Most of the changes seem geared toward motivating players like yourself to come into the setting, rather than keeping those that have made the setting successful happy.
Its a risky strategy, and one that seems to bank on gaining more people than it looses, and assuming that a given percentage will remain with the Realms so long as there is a Forgotten Realms logo on the package and the names Drizzt and Elminster come up from time to time. Oddly, I have the feeling that even with all of the drastic changes, the fact that Drizzt and Elminster are still part of the setting will be enough to confirm to several detractors of the setting that its still not for them.
Despite this, the loyal Drizzt fans and the potential new fans they hope to garner may make this work for them, and as I have said. I'll be interested to see if the setting does win over any new fans from the ranks of those that found it deeply flawed up to this point. I will, however, be watching from the sidelines, since the changes are enough to make me rethink my 20 year devotion to the setting.
Oh, and thank you for making a blanket statement about Forgotten Realms fans. Its been my experience that people that have come to Candlekeep, one of the biggest sites for discussing the Realms, are treated really well, and no one gets jumped for disliking parts of the setting or asking for advice on how to run campaigns that deviate from canon or the like, so long as they are respectful of the other fans there. You may have had other experiences, and I'm sorry if you did, but try not to paint with so broad a brush, especially in the same breath where you complain about being painted with one yourself.
Those changes cured me of my "FR addiction".
Meaning: Since I heard about the changes we know about, I decided that I won't buy any more FR stuff:
No more novels (before that, I read them all. I have all the novels up until a couple of months before).
No more FR rulebooks.
And, since Wizards clearly thinks that me liking the Realms as they were is a stupid thing and they don't want my money (as with so many changes in 4e, they often talk about that the changes really had to be done, like the great pruning of the deities - something I really liked about FR, and among the deities they artibrarily killed off in ridiculous fashions were several of my top 5 favourites), I won't force it upon them. That means that I won't rob them of their miniatures any more (I used to complete all sets, now I don't buy any miniatures - at least not Wizards ones: Reaper's Legendary Encounters looks very promising), and if they want to sell me any 4e rulebooks, they better do their best to make it possible for other companies, like Paizo or Necromancer, to use the rules. And even then I'll only buy the stuff that will be put into the SRD so other companies can use the material therein - otherwise, I don't see why I should buy it, if it has no chance to show up in Pathfinder or other adventures or if other companies won't have a chance to fix the errors Wizards does.